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Columbus: Inadequate Crosswalks

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Starting a new thread on this so as to not take a separate thread in the Columbus development forum off topic:

 

11 hours ago, Zyrokai said:

 

Good luck with the crosswalk markings. I've talked about this before, but I'm literally disgusted with the crosswalks in this city. Even in the Short North they don't use the striped, clearly marked crosswalks. It's all the two lane "standard/type A" crosswalk and it seriously pisses me off. I actually want to start a petition to make the standards higher.

 

This bothers me so much.

 

An anecdote:

 

The city added crosswalk markings along Thurman Ave in German Village this summer after repeated requests from the south side commission, but they only added basic parallel lines. I requested through 311 they add high-visibility markings at one intersection (and signs, but I'd be happy just with the markings) and after two months they responded saying that upon further review, the Division of Traffic Management recommended no changes.

 

What's ridiculous is that the city joined NACTO last year and specifically did so to show its commitment to implementing best practices from the NACTO Urban Street Design Guide -- it says as much on their Complete Streets page. The problem they haven't actually implemented even the most basic best practices, because a critical recommendation for crosswalks in the guide is to use "high­-visibility ladder, zebra, and continental crosswalk markings" over standard parallel lines.

 

I for one would absolutely support any means of pressuring the city to actually paint proper crosswalks.

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I was curious so I hopped on the google maps machine and took a trip to both Cincinnati and Cleveland to check out their crosswalk situation. Both cities have the same issue that we are complaining about in Columbus, not that it makes it OK. Cincinnati is as bad as Columbus. Just like Columbus, Cincinnati only seems to use the dashed cross walk for pedestrian crossings that are not located at an intersection, or are located at an intersection but are on a one-way street and on the side of the intersection where no cars will stop. Cleveland is much better than Columbus and Cincinnati, but still inconsistent. 

 

 

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50 minutes ago, cbussoccer said:

Cincinnati only seems to use the dashed cross walk for pedestrian crossings that are not located at an intersection, or are located at an intersection but are on a one-way street and on the side of the intersection where no cars will stop.

 

Not actually true, though. There's a lot of legacy design around Cincinnati, but newer crosswalks are zebra-style, for the most part.

 

Here are a couple examples of mid-block zebra crosswalks:

https://goo.gl/maps/HC2beXtoW7hq7KEp9

https://goo.gl/maps/q6pAEY6YPQbKBWU28

 

Edit: oh, you said NOT located at intersections. I'll search for some intersection ones.

 

Intersections:

https://goo.gl/maps/N6qJNrdCuGQvpfXQ6

https://goo.gl/maps/aoFsPrQe9a7JFn1G6

https://goo.gl/maps/VS6fwARZiDxyevFs8

Edited by Robuu

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2 minutes ago, Robuu said:

 

Not actually true, though. There's a lot of legacy design around Cincinnati, but newer crosswalks are zebra-style, for the most part.

 

Here are a couple examples of mid-block zebra crosswalks:

https://goo.gl/maps/HC2beXtoW7hq7KEp9

https://goo.gl/maps/q6pAEY6YPQbKBWU28

 

You are proving what I was saying. Those two examples are the "pedestrian corossings that are not located at an intersection" that I was talking about. Columbus does the same exact thing. 

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9698115,-83.0039712,3a,75y,162.71h,82.52t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sc9hF9amGy7UjCmljX_-VDw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9677238,-83.0053276,3a,75y,7.14h,88.71t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sQQ_6HOSITjZxefayixYUzw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9646667,-83.003999,3a,75y,90.95h,83.02t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sfRgL_kLP1EH7gJrBHFP5wg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9634571,-83.0045024,3a,75y,142.87h,82.99t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sWXcn2hAz8hQ8cDi8gdoNxA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

 

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26 minutes ago, Robuu said:

^ Right, check my edit. I first misread the "not at intersections" part.

 

Main Street is a good example of the treatments intersections are getting in the urban core these days:

https://goo.gl/maps/oufcYqd77dv25TaHA

 

Yeah that's a good example of what Columbus should be doing but isn't.

 

Even in the Short North on the section of High St that was just rebuilt, they have put down standard parallel lines at signalized intersections and no markings or signage at most unsignalized intersections. (There are only two crosswalks at unsignalized intersections that do have markings and signs, and one of those has a rapid flashing beacon)

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I'm so glad this thread was created. In addition to the comment I made in the OP, I also said this about a couple months ago in another thread....so here's my initial contribution to the thread. Just gonna quote myself: 

 

On 8/27/2019 at 12:43 PM, Zyrokai said:

 

You know what makes me SO mad about renders like this............is that they always show the international standard crosswalk design that the city of Columbus REFUSES to use except in very certain circumstances and we're lucky to have even that.

 

Boils my blood because pedestrian safety should be #1. I was just in Los Angeles and even there EVERY single intersection has this design, not the absolute basic design.

 

Floors me that, especially in the Short North and University District, these aren't standard.

 

/rant

 

On 8/27/2019 at 1:38 PM, Zyrokai said:

 

Yep. It's infuriating to say the least. I've actually wanted to start a petition to make this change but.....I'm a little naive on how I can do this and if it's even possible. But I feel like it's something a citizen-led thing can achieve.

 

OSU probably manages the streets on their campus......maybe. Or it's one of those RARE exceptions I was telling you about. If you go to another municipality, like Grandview Heights, they've adopted the standard design. Maybe not UA., lol. 

 

But for a city the size of Columbus not to do so, it's frankly embarrassing and is a blatant car concession. I actually know why this is going on within in the city, and I don't want to give details to make my source less anonymous....but there ARE people in the city fighting this....but they seem to not be making much progress.

 

Anyway, sorry to derail the thread. I don't know where else to discuss it, though.

 

Edited by Zyrokai
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I really never even noticed this until your comment a few months back @Zyrokai and now I cannot not notice it. I have to admit, it's maddening. I have been unable to come up with any logical reason as to why the city is not using the standard but instead doing the bare minimum. How can Columbus tout pedestrian safety and walkability but not even correctly paint crosswalks to safety standards. I really do not understand. 

 

Does anyone actually know what can be done about this? Like a media source or inquiry to actually get an answer and maybe a solution?

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Also, I believe the striped crosswalks are usually considered the "internationl style" meaning.....they're pretty much standard globally, lol.

 

As far as Cleveland and Cincinnati, I think it varies as well....none are that great, but Columbus seriously lags behind. Most of Cleveland's downtown are striped, although not with the best paint.

 

I mean when you have cities like Minneapolis, Portland, Seattle, Boston.....they're all so close if not already implementing their Vision Zero plans yet we can't even get up to speed on crosswalk design.

 

ALSO......many small towns do this already. And when I lived in PA, they were nearly everywhere and universal. Maybe it's state mandated there?

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One positive thing I've noticed is that every intersection on High Street between 70/71 and 670 has brick cross walks. It's not the zebra stripes, but it's better than most other corsswalks in the city.

 

I also just noticed street view now has 2019 images. That must have just been added today. 

 

image.thumb.png.0bee50b19943f814e9b88d86bf5d6b2e.png

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Just now, Zyrokai said:

Also, I believe the striped crosswalks are usually considered the "internationl style" meaning.....they're pretty much standard globally, lol.

 

As far as Cleveland and Cincinnati, I think it varies as well....none are that great, but Columbus seriously lags behind. Most of Cleveland's downtown are striped, although not with the best paint.

 

I mean when you have cities like Minneapolis, Portland, Seattle, Boston.....they're all so close if not already implementing their Vision Zero plans yet we can't even get up to speed on crosswalk design.

 

ALSO......many small towns do this already. And when I lived in PA, they were nearly everywhere and universal. Maybe it's state mandated there?

 

I really don't think Cincinnati is any better than Columbus, at least downtown. Cleveland is much better than Columbus and Cincinnati though. 

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4 minutes ago, cbussoccer said:

One positive thing I've noticed is that every intersection on High Street between 70/71 and 670 has brick cross walks. It's not the zebra stripes, but it's better than most other corsswalks in the city.

 

Oh, yeah I don't mind the brick ones! Front Street has them as well (in spots....mainly River South). Anything that makes them stand out to motorists more than two (or none at all) white lines parallel to the "stop here" line (whatever it's called). I truly think most people just think they're "stop here" lines when, in fact, there is usually one marked way back before the crosswalk lines. I'd say like 50% of drivers just.....drive up and sit in the crosswalk : \

 

8 minutes ago, DevolsDance said:

I really never even noticed this until your comment a few months back @Zyrokai and now I cannot not notice it. I have to admit, it's maddening. I have been unable to come up with any logical reason as to why the city is not using the standard but instead doing the bare minimum. How can Columbus tout pedestrian safety and walkability but not even correctly paint crosswalks to safety standards. I really do not understand. 

 

Does anyone actually know what can be done about this? Like a media source or inquiry to actually get an answer and maybe a solution?

 

Help me start a petition! ................................or fire that one person rumored to be the hold up that I mentioned in my post from August, lol.

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EDIT: I'm out and about and using my mobile phone to post these pictures so I might not have posted them all correctly. I don't know if more than one showed up but hopefully you can see them. There should be about five. If not, I'll post the rest later when I'm home. I've also never posted photos on here before so I'm a n00b.

 

So apparently they are now actively removing some from the short North. I took a picture of one below while I was there last night....and you can see where they removed the markings. There are now far too many crosswalks in it Short north with ADA ramps at actively have zero markings now. I also took some pictures of some regular crosswalks that have markings just to sort of highlight how awkward and barren they look.

 

I also took some pictures of unmarked crosswalks that are obviously very highly used that need something. Literally anything.

 

Even if they have their reasons, they're all BS. Every one of these should be marked. Every single one.

MVIMG_20191018_193352.jpg

Edited by Zyrokai

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So I'm still planning on fixing my previous post now that I understand I need to host images first 😛 . Just haven't had time but I took some good ones.

 

However, I will now settle for nothing less than this now that I know it's a thing:

 

 

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Why did they remove they remove the most basic of crosswalk markings here? This seriously pisses me.off so much. They should have the international standard here, not removing it. What the actual.....

 

You can see the removed markings. This poor guy.

 

spacer.png

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There's definitely a culture (and honestly I think training/education) issue in DPS regarding crosswalk markings...

 

I had reported the crosswalk at Thurman and City Park Ave in German Village (where they had added basic parallel line markings over the summer) asking for ladder style markings to be added and the response I got back referenced NCHRP guidelines for uncontrolled crosswalks from 2006. I looked through those guidelines and they don't say anything about the style of markings used. More recent guidelines from FHWA, NACTO, etc all recommend using higher-visibility markings like the ladder style markings that Columbus uses in some places but not most places.

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