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Cleveland: Ohio City: INTRO (Market Square / Harbor Bay Development)

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Probably need a separate thread for the Market Square development. Here's a quick summary of recent news....

 

On 1/16/2019 at 2:06 PM, Clefan98 said:

Market Plaza shopping center in Ohio City sells for $5.85 million

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- After years of talks about a potential makeover of the Market Plaza site in Cleveland’s Ohio City neighborhood, the high-profile corner at West 25th Street and Lorain Avenue changed hands this week in a $5.85 million deal.

 

An affiliate of Harbor Bay Real Estate Advisors, a Chicago-area developer, purchased the shopping center on Tuesday, according to public records. The company plans to raze the retail plaza, which sits across from the West Side Market, and to replace it with a pair of much larger buildings. Site plans show offices, apartments, new retail space and garage parking, with nearly an acre of green space facing the market.

 

https://www.cleveland.com/business/2019/01/market-plaza-shopping-center-in-ohio-city-sells-for-585-million.html

 

On 2/15/2019 at 2:01 PM, imjustinjk said:

Harbor Bay went before the planning commission today for a zoning map amendments for change of use, height and area districts. There was a lot of positive feedback, but slight concern about parking since there's less than a 1-to-1 park proposal for apartments. However, McCormack and Whalen were able to speak to the benefits of TOD and the multimodal connectivity at this location. There seems to be a lot of support from this project from the city, neighborhood groups, west side mark tenants, and Ohio City Inc. Even the neighboring business owner spoke on Harbor Bay's behalf. Can't wait for this project to really get off the ground. 

 

On 2/25/2019 at 12:51 PM, mrnyc said:

wow it was nice to see this kind of cool project in the paper and in the perfect site -- sounds like its going to happen:

 

 

 

Ohio City could score tallest timber frame building in U.S. in 2021

 

By Steven Litt, The Plain Dealer | Posted February 24, 2019 at 05:05 AM | Updated February 24, 2019 at 10:06 AM

 

more:

https://www.cleveland.com/expo/life-and-culture/g66l-2019/02/ea4f5aa50a3112/ohio-city-could-score-tallest-timber-frame-building-in-us-in-2021.html

 

673_screenshot20190221at115441pm.jpeg

 

On 4/2/2019 at 10:15 AM, KJP said:

Update on the Market Square development....

 

Agenda for April 5, 2019

 

Ordinance No. 339-2019(Ward 3/Councilmember McCormack): Changing the Use, Height and Area Districts of parcels along West 25th Street, Lorain Avenue and Gehring Avenue; subjecting such parcels to Section 333.02 of the Cleveland Zoning Code; and attaching the Approved Site Development Plan.

 

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/drcagenda/2019/04052019/index.php

 

 

 


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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So I was sifting through LoopNet the other day and saw that the Market Square development's office component has only one "space" (floor) available? And it's the 10th floor? And it's a re-let?? I'd love to hear more.

https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/West-25th-Lorain-Cleveland-OH/14599257/

 

I also hear the retail space (46,000 square feet total proposed) has a potentially significant tenant lined up or close to it. I don't know who it is, so I'd love to hear any rumors about that.

Edited by KJP
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"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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Well KJP, that's all certainly very encouraging. This project seems to be progressing quite quickly. I'm holding out hope that the office componant will be a relocation from outside the region...

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They are already starting to give the businesses the boot.  The Subway is going to be gone by the end of the month.

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19 hours ago, KJP said:

So I was sifting through LoopNet the other day and saw that the Market Square development's office component has only one "space" (floor) available? And it's the 10th floor? And it's a re-let?? I'd love to hear more.

https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/West-25th-Lorain-Cleveland-OH/14599257/

 

I also hear the retail space (46,000 square feet total proposed) has a potentially significant tenant lined up or close to it. I don't know who it is, so I'd love to hear any rumors about that.

 

Don't mind me, but what's a re-let?

 

Great to hear there is this much interest in the office component of the development.

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That's where a tenant had signed an agreement to occupy a space but then backed out with the landlord consenting to it, allowing the space to go back on the market. What's interesting to me is that it is the 10th floor space. I would think that would be the most desirable space and be snapped up first unless the tenant couldn't afford to make a go of it.

 

Whatever the situation, if this really is the only office space still available at Market Square -- and the only reason why it is still available is because a tenant had to back out -- speaks well to the marketability of this building. And it may bolster more Class A/co-working developments in the urban core.


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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1 hour ago, KJP said:

That's where a tenant had signed an agreement to occupy a space but then backed out with the landlord consenting to it, allowing the space to go back on the market. What's interesting to me is that it is the 10th floor space. I would think that would be the most desirable space and be snapped up first unless the tenant couldn't afford to make a go of it.

2

 

Just to expand, it could have been a timing issue more than a money issue.   

 

We just renewed our lease and so we're where we are for another ten plus years.  If we had wanted to go to Market Square, we would have had to convince our landlord to let us stay for  one year past our current lease (hopefully, maybe a little longer).  But understandably, our landlord likely would prefer to replace us with another ten-year tenant rather than have us hanging around for a short term, perhaps with an indefinite move-out date.  As a result, the landlord might propose a six-month rolling lease that the landlord could decide not to renew as soon as they found a long-term tenant to take to the space -- that's definitely not ideal for us if we have to find temporary space to bridge the gap, which means moving twice instead of once, each move disrupting actual business getting done, etc.

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23 hours ago, KJP said:

So I was sifting through LoopNet the other day and saw that the Market Square development's office component has only one "space" (floor) available? And it's the 10th floor? And it's a re-let?? I'd love to hear more.

https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/West-25th-Lorain-Cleveland-OH/14599257/

 

I also hear the retail space (46,000 square feet total proposed) has a potentially significant tenant lined up or close to it. I don't know who it is, so I'd love to hear any rumors about that.

KJP...I am really missing something.   Can you point out specifically what information contained in the loopnet ad suggestions only the 10th floor is left to lease.  I am just not seeing that but there is a good chance I am just misreading it. Thanks.

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Interesting. They changed the listing to show floors 2-10 as available. Previously, only the 10th floor was shown as the only space available. 

Edited by KJP

"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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1 minute ago, KJP said:

What other office space is listed for lease?

The way I read it the whole building is available. 

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10 minutes ago, KJP said:

Interesting. They changed the listing to show floors 2-10 as available. Previously, only the 10th floor was shown as the only space available. 

Thanks for the reply.  I never say that original listing.  So I am not losing my mind.

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They also added the floorplans/layouts to the prior listing.


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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I'm really interested to see what kind of retail this brings to the neighborhood. The spaces will certainly be more expensive than whats currently there. I could see a similar mix to Van Aken.

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1 hour ago, PoshSteve said:

I'm really interested to see what kind of retail this brings to the neighborhood. The spaces will certainly be more expensive than whats currently there. I could see a similar mix to Van Aken.

 

The retail promises to be quite special, I'm told.

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"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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Signs are up!

 

 

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"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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New ad brochure on CBRE shows the back parking garage is gone, awesome details on the public spaces of the northern building (plaza, ice skating rink), Gehrig street being a shared street, and high quality renders

Edited by CbusTransit

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Ho hum, just another multi-unit townhouse development, the kind whose very presence would have sent tremors rumbling through the west side 20 years ago.....

 

NEW TOWNHOUSE DEVELOPMENT IN A TWO-FAMILY DISTRICT

For PPN# 003-26-054
Project Address: 3210 Franklin Boulevard
Project Representative: Michael DeCesare, Case Development
Note: this project was Tabled by the Planning Commission on April 26, 2019.

 

Franklin_Townhomes_IMG_02.jpg

 

Franklin_Townhomes_IMG_06.jpg

 

Franklin_Townhomes_IMG_07.jpg

 

Franklin_Townhomes_IMG_08.jpg

 

Franklin_Townhomes_IMG_09.jpg


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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This design was not approved by the block club (voted down).  It's certainly improved from the previous version but last I heard Ohio City Inc and the block club were going to meet again with the developer.  Not sure if that has happened or not happened.

Edited by RMB

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4 hours ago, CbusTransit said:

New ad brochure on CBRE shows the back parking garage is gone, awesome details on the public spaces of the northern building (plaza, ice skating rink), Gehrig street being a shared street, and high quality renders

 

I can't imagine they won't be adding parking somehow for this development, but there is a lot more in play around it that they may be looking at- the Voss Aerospace building and parking area, plus RTA's Columbus Road project all abuts this site, and I hope they are able to find a way to merge these all together into something that works nicely as a whole, and not just 3 abutting megaprojects wedged into a neighborhood.

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There are a lot of great projects happening/just happened/will be happening around town, but Market Square is my favorite.  I've been waiting-as have we all-a very long time for this site to be developed and I love the design.

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Found this while doing a Google search. Some loan/bond/tax exemption requests this year to OAQDA have been for amounts as large as $350 million. Wonder what Ohio City Legacy LLC/Harbor Bay's was? Wonder why it wasn't approved was tabled?

 

https://ohioairquality.ohio.gov/Portals/0/OAQDA August 2019 Meeting Information.pdf

Edited by KJP

"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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Two more are coming at the end of the month, the Boost Mobile and Fantasy Nails. Boost Mobile is closing. Fantasy Nails is moving to Detroit and West 28th.

 

Soon, there will be only two left. And if the retail plaza stays mostly empty for a long time, they will likely leave too. Ohio City doesn't need a dead zone at this very important intersection, especially with some of the tenant departures at West Side Market. Several other developments nearby (Carnegie, Voss, etc) are depending on this project. If it is delayed, it dies, and so will other nearby planned developments.


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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I wish there was a way to get our city leaders to be less constrictive and more supportive of these projects.  I was walking around down there and i can only imagine how beautiful, busy and exciting the area would be with this project being finished.  That area is already doing well but this could really put the finishing touches on that corner.

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41 minutes ago, KJP said:

Two more are coming at the end of the month, the Boost Mobile and Fantasy Nails. Boost Mobile is closing. Fantasy Nails is moving to Detroit and West 28th.

 

Soon, there will be only two left. And if the retail plaza stays mostly empty for a long time, they will likely leave too. Ohio City doesn't need a dead zone at this very important intersection, especially with some of the tenant departures at West Side Market. Several other developments nearby (Carnegie, Voss, etc) are depending on this project. If it is delayed, it dies, and so will other nearby planned developments.

 

28 minutes ago, G00pie said:

I wish there was a way to get our city leaders to be less constrictive and more supportive of these projects.  I was walking around down there and i can only imagine how beautiful, busy and exciting the area would be with this project being finished.  That area is already doing well but this could really put the finishing touches on that corner.

KJP I trust your take on things, but to tell you the truth, without specifics as to what "city hall" and certain "city leaders" are doing or not doing to impede  this project and Nucleus it is hard to comment and/or offer a personal analysis regarding the situation.  I am all set to trash the person or persons gumming up these projects but to be fair I don't know why I would be doing it.

Edited by Htsguy
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I'm hoping to trigger inquiries without compromising sources. If I name the person (not at City Hall or school system), I'll burn the source. But it has to do with property tax abatements and an organization complaining that its future revenues are being "given away." 

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"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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If they continue to impede development, there will be no future revenue to be concerned about because developers will seek out more cooperative/collaborative communities.

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2 hours ago, KJP said:

I'm hoping to trigger inquiries without compromising sources. If I name the person (not at City Hall or school system), I'll burn the source. But it has to do with property tax abatements and an organization complaining that its future revenues are being "given away." 

 

Can you give any insight into which organization?

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52 minutes ago, CbusTransit said:

Well Key Bank is moving out of the existing plaza (to the building housing bookhouse brewery) in order to make room for the Market Square development 

 

 

And H&R Block is moving to 4005 Lorain https://images4.loopnet.com/d2/KjECpcuorW0sw0aFuRfHojnV29Er_uW3FhDwRGvIWm8/document.pdf

 

SHW & the Chinese restaurant are on 60-day leases.

 

 

8 minutes ago, Terdolph said:

I can imagine.  It is really just a political shake down.

 

It just might be. The tax abatement, as proposed, would be for 30 years.

 

Edited by KJP
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"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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16 minutes ago, Terdolph said:

They don't care. Political entities like this don't see any personal gain for themselves or their supporters in a generally improving economy.  None of them really participate in it or be live that they can.  The only gain they can get is shaking down "the man" and distributing the proceeds.

Sooo, I don’t come to UO to debate politics.  The option is there and I’d rather not.  However, I feel with politicians there’s always going to be a peacock show of “what’s in it for my constituents” that seems to hamper these type of developments.  The resistance is part of the political show and what’s feasible will still come to fruition.

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I confess I had never heard of the Ohio Air Quality Development Authority before now.  From a little digging, I wonder if the developer is proposing financing the project through OAQDA, which would mean [I think]  OAQDA acquiring title, financing the project, and  leasing the development back to the developer. This would make the development exempt from local property taxes for the life of the revenue bonds OAQDA would issue. Might also exempt building materials from state/local sales taxes.  Seems like a pretty ambitious stretch of the normal purposes of OAQDA, and I wonder if the city/schools are objecting to state action that would completely remove the development from the tax rolls. 

 

It could also be that the developer is proposing something more modest, like financing only certain equipment or something. Not much info available at this point. 

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We've looked at bonding thru OADQA.  as opposed to going through the port (and dealing with their requirements), it is a work around and gets you mostly to the same place.  

 

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8 hours ago, StapHanger said:

It could also be that the developer is proposing something more modest, like financing only certain equipment or something. Not much info available at this point. 

 

BTW note in the press releases posted at the OAQDA website that OAQDA has already approved some significant financing requests this year, including $100 million for a utility project and $350 million for an industrial expansion. So it's possible that Harbor Bay's request could be in that same neighborhood.

 

Think about other governmental bodies that also would be affected by a 30-year property tax exemption....


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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2 hours ago, KJP said:

Think about other governmental bodies that also would be affected by a 30-year property tax exemption....

 

The school district? 

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I'll just tell you. I don't like it when other people play these kinds of guessing games with me. It's the Metroparks, specifically Brian Zimmerman. He apparently urged the city and county to oppose the OAQDA financing and, from what I understand, they did. OAQDA tabled the request last week. I'm still trying to get the details from all the parties involved but I did get confirmation from OAQDA. 

Edited by KJP

"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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Financing apartment and office buildings seems to be outside the scope of what OAQDA was intended to do and what it normally does.  From the OAQDA website:

 

The role of the Ohio Air Quality Development Authority is to provide for the conservation of air as a natural resource of the state to prevent or abate the pollution of the air, to provide for the comfort, health, safety and general welfare of all citizens of the state and to assist in the financing of air quality facilities for industry, commerce, and research.

The Authority’s power is drawn from its enabling legislation, found in ORC Chapter 3706. OAQDA has the authority to:

1) issue air quality revenue bonds, notes and refunding bonds;

2) make loans and grants to governmental agencies for the acquisition and construction of air quality facilities

3) make loans for air quality projects for industry, commerce, distribution or research, including public utility companies;

4) acquire, construct and operate air quality facilities itself; and,

5) engage in research and development with respect to air quality facilities.

 

Its primary purpose is to contribute to cleaner air in Ohio by assisting Ohio businesses to invest in air quality through the provision of conduit financing for the purchase, construction and/or installation of air quality facilities.

 

Most of their grants are to relatively small businesses: lots of grants to buy new paint booths at Auto body shops, grants to replace old HVAC equipment, etc.  Based on that and the resultant long term tax abatement I can see why this is causing a lot of pushback.  You wonder if the developers are just being opportunistic or if this approach was key to the development...

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Yes, this is a new direction for OAQDA. But from what I understand, the wood frame construction of these two buildings substantially reduces the heating and cooling costs associated with them. The operation of residential and commercial buildings is a large contributor of carbon to the atmosphere in Ohio's cities. In this case, the numbers can be quantified related to the building's operational cost savings. There are also air quality benefits from growing the trees to maturity for construction vs. producing steel frames, plus concrete and steel reinforcing rods for more common construction. And of course there is the benefit of this being a transit-, bike- and pedestrian-supportive development. Note that this would be the largest single development located on new Red Line Greenway, putting more eyes on the trail and thus increasing its safety.

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"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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I’m not following @KJP, is there an initial post covering this issue? Market Square was going for a sizable source of financing for this project and it was tabled? And it is putting this project in danger of happening?

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On 8/19/2019 at 10:38 PM, Sapper Daddy said:

Sooo, I don’t come to UO to debate politics.  The option is there and I’d rather not.  However, I feel with politicians there’s always going to be a peacock show of “what’s in it for my constituents” that seems to hamper these type of developments.  The resistance is part of the political show and what’s feasible will still come to fruition.

 

Ummm....urban strategy is one of the most political things there is.   There's always going to be political shows because no proposal is going to please everyone.  Politicians are constantly attempting to predict the numbers on support/opposition, and how strong 

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