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eastvillagedon

Political Harassment & Violence

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and on it goes...(but at least it was encouraging the Mexican-American bartender stood up for free speech:classic_smile:)

 

Falmouth Woman Accused Of Assault Over MAGA Hat

The woman is accused of confronting a man wearing a "Make America Great Again" hat at a Mexican restaurant Friday night.

 

https://patch.com/massachusetts/falmouth/falmouth-woman-accused-assault-over-maga-hat

 

 

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^ @eastvillagedon Is this the ONLY kind of stuff you post about on here? Do you have the ability to discuss anything that is actually significant, instead of small individual incidents like this one? Surely if you believe that incident is something to be concerned about on the left, what do you think about that Coast Guard terrorist and the rise of right-wing violent extremism? 

Edited by ethlaw

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Since some people can't seem to discuss actual topics in the other current events threads and everyone gets distracted, we can treat this as a dump for people who want to post incidents of political violence or harassment. Please refrain from placing these in the Trump thread or election threads since they aren't really relevant to the general discussion.

 

This is not a place for actual terrorism (like the pipe bombs or the Coast guard issue) and is not a place for general racist based violence or harassment. This is only when the alleged incident was spurred in some way by people based on the political leanings of the victim or oppressor or both.

 

In general, when in doubt, post here instead of another thread.

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16 minutes ago, ryanlammi said:

Since some people can't seem to discuss actual topics in the other current events threads and everyone gets distracted, we can treat this as a dump for people who want to post incidents of political violence or harassment. Please refrain from placing these in the Trump thread or election threads since they aren't really relevant to the general discussion.

 

This is not a place for actual terrorism (like the pipe bombs or the Coast guard issue) and is not a place for general racist based violence or harassment. This is only when the alleged incident was spurred in some way by people based on the political leanings of the victim or oppressor or both.

 

In general, when in doubt, post here instead of another thread.

 

 

I'm not really sure how incidents involving Trump supporters being attacked by complete strangers are not relevant to the Trump Presidency thread. I mean, it's a thread about Trump being the president and I foolishly assumed it would be okay to post stories (based on the title--the Trump Presidency) about people who are harassing people who supported Trump for president. But it's your call, so be it. Anyway, my apologies to everyone for the distractions and for "cluttering" up the Trump Presidency thread with stories about Trump haters harassing people who supported Trump for President

 

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3 minutes ago, eastvillagedon said:

 

 

I'm not really sure how incidents involving Trump supporters being attacked by complete strangers are not relevant to the Trump Presidency thread. I mean, it's a thread about Trump being the president and I foolishly assumed it would be okay to post stories (based on the title--the Trump Presidency) about people who are harassing people who supported Trump for president. But it's your call, so be it. Anyway, my apologies to everyone for the distractions and for "cluttering" up the Trump Presidency thread with stories about Trump haters harassing people who supported Trump for President

 

 

These types of posts were getting into multiple threads (and it wasn't just MAGA people getting harassed that I'm thinking of). Whether it was racism, 2020 Democratic Primary, or the Trump Presidency thread.

 

I just think the Trump Presidency thread should be more about what Trump is doing as president. I also think we should have separated the Mueller Investigation into it's own thread so the Trump Presidency thread could be more about what policies he is pushing for, but it's a little late for that.

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On 2/22/2019 at 2:13 PM, eastvillagedon said:

and on it goes...(but at least it was encouraging the Mexican-American bartender stood up for free speech:classic_smile:)

 

Falmouth Woman Accused Of Assault Over MAGA Hat

The woman is accused of confronting a man wearing a "Make America Great Again" hat at a Mexican restaurant Friday night.

 

https://patch.com/massachusetts/falmouth/falmouth-woman-accused-assault-over-maga-hat

 

 

There may very well be a happy ending to this story:

 

Woman who attacked man wearing 'MAGA' hat was illegal immigrant, taken into ICE custody: officials

 

https://www.foxnews.com/us/woman-who-attacked-man-wearing-maga-hat-was-illegal-immigrant-taken-into-ice-custody

 

A woman who was arrested last week for allegedly attacking a man wearing a “Make America Great Again” hat at a Massachusetts restaurant is an illegal immigrant from Brazil, Immigration and Customs Enforcement officials said.

 

ICE officers detained Rosiane Santos, 41, on Tuesday after they discovered she was in the U.S. illegally, Boston 25 News reported.

 

"Deportation officers with ICE's Fugitive Operations Team arrested Rosie Santos, an unlawfully present citizen of Brazil," ICE said in a statement. "Santos is facing local charges for assault and other offenses. She is presently in ICE custody and has been entered into removal proceedings before the federal immigration courts."

 

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Can you imagine the intense and widespread outrage on legacy and social media if that Covington kid would have attacked and beaten that Indian guy in DC a few weeks back? It'd go on for weeks, if not months. It'd be front page news everywhere in the country. He'd have to be in protective custody to escape radial left wing retribution.

 

But - a grown man attacking and beating an 81 year old guy because he has right-leaning politics? That's a non-story, apparently. Here's a brief article buried on the back pages of Time - likely the closest thing to "coverage" this will get:

 

 

New Jersey Teen Charged With Assaulting 81-Year-Old Man Wearing 'MAGA' Hat

 

http://time.com/5541025/new-jersey-maga-hat-assault/?utm_source=reddit.com

 

A 19-year-old man has been arrested for attacking an 81-year-old wearing a MAGA hat in Somerset, N.J., prosecutors say...

 

Salvagno then allegedly took the victim by the arm and threw him to the ground, tipping over the elderly man’s cart of groceries and throwing the hat to one side, prosecutors said.

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Yep, pretty awful. I hope he has a nice long jail sentence. 


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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^ The disconnect from reality is really quite scary. How someone can pretend to denounce hatred while simultaneously and compulsively spewing hatred and vitriol at others in public is beyond me. The fact that she felt comfortable going on to tell the whole world about her public hate speech attack makes it much worse.

 

I know it's been said many times before, but these little incident that seemingly happen on a daily basis, everywhere in America, really are why Trump won the election and will likely win again in 2020. These are personal attacks on innocent Americans. The average Joe can relate more to a random guy wearing a hat than they can an angry social justice warrior with an attitude problem and a willingness to verbally assault a complete stranger on the street because of a hat.

 

On this same topic, here's yet another example of harassment/assault over a hat. You really can find examples like this on a daily basis. It's really unfortunate:

 

https://imgur.com/a/KyLse3V

 

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12 hours ago, Ram23 said:

^ The disconnect from reality is really quite scary. How someone can pretend to denounce hatred while simultaneously and compulsively spewing hatred and vitriol at others in public is beyond me. The fact that she felt comfortable going on to tell the whole world about her public hate speech attack makes it much worse.

 

I know it's been said many times before, but these little incident that seemingly happen on a daily basis, everywhere in America, really are why Trump won the election and will likely win again in 2020. These are personal attacks on innocent Americans. The average Joe can relate more to a random guy wearing a hat than they can an angry social justice warrior with an attitude problem and a willingness to verbally assault a complete stranger on the street because of a hat.

 

On this same topic, here's yet another example of harassment/assault over a hat. You really can find examples like this on a daily basis. It's really unfortunate:

 

https://imgur.com/a/KyLse3V

 

 Yeah... so here is what you’re arguing.  Let’s say there is a black family in your neighborhood.  They somehow get on the radar of the local KKK or other white nationalist group. The KKK begins to send them hate mail, graffitis their house with racial slurs, escalating it to burning a cross in their yard. The family goes on the news proclaiming that these KKK members are racist and evil.  The KKK responds by saying that calling them evil for merely protecting the white race is hateful and intolerant.  The KKK don’t view their actions as wrong or even hateful in the context of their beliefs.

Your position is that the family is more hateful than the KKK for just responding to the actions the KKK committed against them.  

 

Trump has a 40-year history of racism, starting with trying to prevent black people from living in his buildings, then calling the Central Park 5 guilty even though they weren’t, then later being a huge birther with Obama, then saying a Mexican judge couldn’t be impartial, then dog whistling about Chicago violence, then calling non-white nations shitholes, etc etc etc. The fact that people have responded to that behavior by associating his campaign hat with racism is no different than the family in my example calling the KKK evil and racist for their own actions.  

 

I get it.  You’re a Kool-Aid drinker and will never find any fault with Trump.  He says exactly what you think.  He’s your literal white knight.  But whether you admit it or not, the hate he gets is a direct result of his actions.  So are yours.  

Edited by jonoh81

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The ironic thing is the left feels they get to define what moral is because they say so. The fact that a stupid hat is "racist" is absurd and shows that people lost the concept of what racism truly is. People on the left have been ratcheting up the rhetoric for so long that their arguments just are plainly absurd.   Instead of having a true debate about morality and policy, the left just throws around words like "racism" and "white privilege" amongst others to try and shut down reasonable conversation. It is why you see something as innocuous as a hat be treated as something more than it truly is.

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8 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

The ironic thing is the left feels they get to define what moral is because they say so. The fact that a stupid hat is "racist" is absurd and shows that people lost the concept of what racism truly is. People on the left have been ratcheting up the rhetoric for so long that their arguments just are plainly absurd.   Instead of having a true debate about morality and policy, the left just throws around words like "racism" and "white privilege" amongst others to try and shut down reasonable conversation. It is why you see something as innocuous as a hat be treated as something more than it truly is.

 

Fox News tried to convince us a fist bump was tied to terrorism, but ok.

 

You continue to post as if you only consume Breitbart and Fox News.  Just a bizarre reality to live in as opposed to going out and having conversations with people.


Very Stable Genius

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17 hours ago, Ram23 said:

^ The disconnect from reality is really quite scary. How someone can pretend to denounce hatred while simultaneously and compulsively spewing hatred and vitriol at others in public is beyond me. The fact that she felt comfortable going on to tell the whole world about her public hate speech attack makes it much worse.

 

I know it's been said many times before, but these little incident that seemingly happen on a daily basis, everywhere in America, really are why Trump won the election and will likely win again in 2020. These are personal attacks on innocent Americans. The average Joe can relate more to a random guy wearing a hat than they can an angry social justice warrior with an attitude problem and a willingness to verbally assault a complete stranger on the street because of a hat.

 

On this same topic, here's yet another example of harassment/assault over a hat. You really can find examples like this on a daily basis. It's really unfortunate:

 

https://imgur.com/a/KyLse3V

 

it never ends. I love it that this woman fought back! https://twitter.com/PALOMAFORTRUMP

 

Edited by eastvillagedon

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So did we just see the absurd argument that symbols (and the MAGA hat is absolutely a Trump symbol now) can't be seen as racist due to the actions or beliefs of the base movement or leadership?  Symbols have no meaning behind them at all, then, good or bad?

 

Okay, let me go burn an American flag. I'm sure no one will care.  Maybe Brutus could walk around with swastikas on his arm, because symbols have no relation to their movements (and the swastika wasn't even a Nazi symbol originally). 

Edited by jonoh81

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@jon81oh it is a stupid hat. The left is triggered by it because they choose to be triggered by it. If you see someone wearing it on the street, It may allow you to infer a few opinions about that person, but at the end of the day, it is an article of clothing and an inanimate object.  If it were lying on a table, it the hat elicits more hatred than say for the person who may actually own the hat.  This is the illogical side of the left.

 

Personally, I am not a fan of the MAGA hat and find many Trump supporters to be a bunch of rednecks, but I don't lose my sh(t and go into a blind rage or want to go crying home to mama when I see someone wearing one on the street. I just politely walk by and let bygones be bygones. It is called being a citizen

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41 minutes ago, eastvillagedon said:

wait, I thought all Trump supporters were white supremacists and all immigrants are supposed to hate Trump. Surely this story must be a hoax.😲

 

 

Didn't we already establish that persecuted minorities can themselves be part of the problem?  Did I not mention that there were Jews collaborating with the Nazis?  There were Native Americans collaborating with the US Army against others?  That there were Mexica (Aztec) that collaborated with the Spanish?  That there were slaves that collaborated with their masters?  You think this crap is new?  There will ALWAYS be those who work against their own best interests in situations like that.  It's the classic "can't beat 'em, join 'em" mentality.  Whether they frame that support that way is irrelevant.  Trump is what he is.  His supporters can't escape that association no matter who they are.

 

 

Edited by jonoh81

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1 hour ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

@jon81oh it is a stupid hat. The left is triggered by it because they choose to be triggered by it. If you see someone wearing it on the street, It may allow you to infer a few opinions about that person, but at the end of the day, it is an article of clothing and an inanimate object.  If it were lying on a table, it the hat elicits more hatred than say for the person who may actually own the hat.  This is the illogical side of the left.

 

Personally, I am not a fan of the MAGA hat and find many Trump supporters to be a bunch of rednecks, but I don't lose my sh(t and go into a blind rage or want to go crying home to mama when I see someone wearing one on the street. I just politely walk by and let bygones be bygones. It is called being a citizen

 

So wear the swastika around your neighborhood and then tell the people offended by it that they're merely choosing to be offended by it.  Tell them it's just an inanimate object that holds no meaning by itself.  If you had any courage of your convictions, you could easily prove me wrong by parading around in any of the symbols that almost everyone recognizes as offensive. It doesn't even have to be a swastika.  Walk around in a pointed white hood in a black neighborhood.  It's just a piece of clothing, after all.  I'm sure you'll be fine, and given that you don't have any problems with these things, you'll have absolutely no problem doing it.

 

You always say you're not a fan of the hat or Trump, and yet you're curiously even more defensive of these things than our resident out and proud Trump supporters.  Maybe you should stop treating us like we were born yesterday, because I'm not sure who's supposed to be gullible enough to buy that story.

Edited by jonoh81

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1 hour ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

@jon81oh it is a stupid hat. The left is triggered by it because they choose to be triggered by it. If you see someone wearing it on the street, It may allow you to infer a few opinions about that person, but at the end of the day, it is an article of clothing and an inanimate object.  If it were lying on a table, it the hat elicits more hatred than say for the person who may actually own the hat.  This is the illogical side of the left.

 

Personally, I am not a fan of the MAGA hat and find many Trump supporters to be a bunch of rednecks, but I don't lose my sh(t and go into a blind rage or want to go crying home to mama when I see someone wearing one on the street. I just politely walk by and let bygones be bygones. It is called being a citizen

 

Conservatives lost/lose their **** over Starbucks cups.  No one reading this believes your bullsh** that conservatives are somehow morally superior and don't get outraged.


Very Stable Genius

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^ Losing your sh*t over stupid Starbucks cups is dumb too. People of all persuasions need to get a grip. It is just a cup that holds coffee. Just like the MAGA hat, people need to quit making them into a symbol for some pre-conceived opinion they may have on an issue.

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2 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

^ Losing your sh*t over stupid Starbucks cups is dumb too. People of all persuasions need to get a grip. It is just a cup that holds coffee. Just like the MAGA hat, people need to quit making them into a symbol for some pre-conceived opinion they may have on an issue.

 

20 minutes ago, jonoh81 said:

 

So wear the swastika around your neighborhood and then tell the people offended by it that they're merely choosing to be offended by it.  Tell them it's just an inanimate object that holds no meaning by itself.  If you had any courage of your convictions, you could easily prove me wrong by parading around in any of the symbols that almost everyone recognizes as offensive. It doesn't even have to be a swastika.  Walk around in a pointed white hood in a black neighborhood.  It's just a piece of clothing, after all.  I'm sure you'll be fine, and given that you don't have any problems with these things, you'll have absolutely no problem doing it.

 

You always say you're not a fan of the hat or Trump, and yet you're curiously even more defensive of these things than our resident out and proud Trump supporters.  Maybe you should stop treating us like we were born yesterday, because I'm not sure who's supposed to be gullible enough to buy that story.

 


Very Stable Genius

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Saying symbols don't have power, and then making a lame "both sides" point about how people are overreacting to them is a direct contradiction. If symbols don't have any power, how is it that both sides are reacting to them at all? 

 

That is not to say that all reactions are based in anything logical or real, as with the Starbucks cup, but even that example shows that people give meaning to inanimate objects all the time when there is a strong association to something else.  The fact that Brutus is likely unwilling to wear a swastika on his arm or a white pointed hood over his head suggests he knows that's true and is merely being an insufferable contrarian because this is about liberals objecting to something related to Trump.

Edited by jonoh81

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57 minutes ago, jonoh81 said:

 

Didn't we already establish that persecuted minorities can themselves be part of the problem?  

 

 

no, this is something you established according to the narrow, stereotyped definitions of how you think a certain demographic should think and act. Fortunately there are many who choose to defy your bigotry and live as iconoclasts capable of independent thought. But I guess to you they're just "Uncle Toms." Thank you for being so open minded and accepting of others. Isn't diversity wonderful?

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15 minutes ago, eastvillagedon said:

no, this is something you established according to the narrow, stereotyped definitions of how you think a certain demographic should think and act. Fortunately there are many who choose to defy your bigotry and live as iconoclasts capable of independent thought. But I guess to you they're just "Uncle Toms." Thank you for being so open minded and accepting of others. Isn't diversity wonderful?

 

I don't congratulate minorities for supporting politics that undermine their rights or status as equal human beings.  Sorry, not sorry. The fact that you think they should says a lot more about you than my criticism of them does about me.  A racial minority, LGBT person, etc. can do and think whatever they want.  They're free to support the party that gleefully treats them like 2nd class garbage. I never said any differently.  However, I'm under no obligation to legitimize that view or act like it's a decent choice.  I would be doing myself a disservice as one of those minorities.  I have self respect. 

Edited by jonoh81

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On ‎5‎/‎3‎/‎2019 at 5:19 PM, jonoh81 said:

Saying symbols don't have power, and then making a lame "both sides" point about how people are overreacting to them is a direct contradiction. If symbols don't have any power, how is it that both sides are reacting to them at all? 

 

That is not to say that all reactions are based in anything logical or real, as with the Starbucks cup, but even that example shows that people give meaning to inanimate objects all the time when there is a strong association to something else.  The fact that Brutus is likely unwilling to wear a swastika on his arm or a white pointed hood over his head suggests he knows that's true and is merely being an insufferable contrarian because this is about liberals objecting to something related to Trump.

Wearing a KKK hood around is completely different than a Starbucks cup or a MAGA hat. The MAGA hat is much more akin to the Starbucks cup example. The KKK hood is purely a symbol of hate because the KKK essentially embraced it and made it part of their culture. Wearing the hood was akin to getting a fraternity brand. It showed you were part of the club. They embraced the symbol and the hate that stemmed from it. If you do that today, you clearly sympathize with those that support hatred. Much the same with the Nazi Swastika.

 

The difference between that and the Starbucks cup and MAGA hat is that the symbolism that people are trying to project on these objects was not the symbolism intended by those who wear them. Starbucks "holiday" cups were designed with no offense in nature, but since some people perceived a "war" on Xmas, changing them to red and removing "holiday" language was seen as a hidden liberal agenda. Couple it with the fact that the CEO of Starbucks leans liberal, conservatives manufactured a false narrative on the subject. This is the same with the MAGA hat.

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On ‎5‎/‎3‎/‎2019 at 4:33 PM, jonoh81 said:

You always say you're not a fan of the hat or Trump, and yet you're curiously even more defensive of these things than our resident out and proud Trump supporters.  Maybe you should stop treating us like we were born yesterday, because I'm not sure who's supposed to be gullible enough to buy that story.

 

If you would look past some of the blunt language I sometimes use and truly examine the spirit of my posts, you will see what I am a moderate who leans conservative much like @YABO713, although, I tend to use more colorful language sometimes.  So, no, I often don't agree with you on the substantive issues, but I will always agree that Trump is not a good president and poor leader. I really never defend Trump, but often, I look for opportunities that are truly egregious instead of getting excited about the next big conspiracy theory coming out on Trump. I saw conservatives do this for years and now I see the left doing it.

 

If anything, I would sacrifice some of my political interests if there was a true statesman that emerged, but neither side seems interested in statesmanship anymore.

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2 hours ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

Wearing a KKK hood around is completely different than a Starbucks cup or a MAGA hat. The MAGA hat is much more akin to the Starbucks cup example. The KKK hood is purely a symbol of hate because the KKK essentially embraced it and made it part of their culture. Wearing the hood was akin to getting a fraternity brand. It showed you were part of the club. They embraced the symbol and the hate that stemmed from it. If you do that today, you clearly sympathize with those that support hatred. Much the same with the Nazi Swastika.

 

The difference between that and the Starbucks cup and MAGA hat is that the symbolism that people are trying to project on these objects was not the symbolism intended by those who wear them. Starbucks "holiday" cups were designed with no offense in nature, but since some people perceived a "war" on Xmas, changing them to red and removing "holiday" language was seen as a hidden liberal agenda. Couple it with the fact that the CEO of Starbucks leans liberal, conservatives manufactured a false narrative on the subject. This is the same with the MAGA hat.

 

See, this is exactly why you can't be taken seriously.  You're just another Trump apologist who can't just come out and say as much.  I respect Ram and EVD far more because at least they don't try to hide it.  There are endless documented examples of Trump being racist or discriminatory, and you act like it's being pulled out of thin air.  The movement he has been pushing is not only morally disgusting, but is actively helping to increase violence against minorities across the country.  His hat is a symbol of him and that movement. Let me know when a f****** red Starbucks cup does any of that.  Any conservatives that can embrace the full sick immorality of Donald Trump, but act like pure, angelic Christians about a coffee cup are all completely insane.

Edited by jonoh81

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2 hours ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

 

If you would look past some of the blunt language I sometimes use and truly examine the spirit of my posts, you will see what I am a moderate who leans conservative much like @YABO713, although, I tend to use more colorful language sometimes.  So, no, I often don't agree with you on the substantive issues, but I will always agree that Trump is not a good president and poor leader. I really never defend Trump, but often, I look for opportunities that are truly egregious instead of getting excited about the next big conspiracy theory coming out on Trump. I saw conservatives do this for years and now I see the left doing it.

 

If anything, I would sacrifice some of my political interests if there was a true statesman that emerged, but neither side seems interested in statesmanship anymore.

 

Come off it, no one believes you're not defending Trump.  The "both sides" rhetoric is such a dead giveaway and always has been.  People like to say that because they don't like how awful their side is being, so they pretend everyone else is doing the same thing.  It's deep deflection.  It's the reason so many Trump supporters bring up Hillary.  She's everything they hate about themselves but ascribe to her.  Maybe instead of being so embarrassed and ashamed of what you've become that you have to act like everyone else is just as bad, maybe just stop defending it altogether.  Better yet, just stop being awful.  Because otherwise, the only thing that's true about "both sides" is where you talk out of your mouth. 

Edited by jonoh81

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12 hours ago, jonoh81 said:

 

See, this is exactly why you can't be taken seriously.  You're just another Trump apologist who can't just come out and say as much.  I respect Ram and EVD far more because at least they don't try to hide it.  There are endless documented examples of Trump being racist or discriminatory, and you act like it's being pulled out of thin air.  The movement he has been pushing is not only morally disgusting, but is actively helping to increase violence against minorities across the country.  His hat is a symbol of him and that movement. Let me know when a f****** red Starbucks cup does any of that.  Any conservatives that can embrace the full sick immorality of Donald Trump, but act like pure, angelic Christians about a coffee cup are all completely insane.

:classic_rolleyes:

 47772596671_e0b07e4f26_o.jpg 

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On 5/2/2019 at 9:46 PM, Ram23 said:

^ The disconnect from reality is really quite scary. How someone can pretend to denounce hatred while simultaneously and compulsively spewing hatred and vitriol at others in public is beyond me. The fact that she felt comfortable going on to tell the whole world about her public hate speech attack makes it much worse.

 

I know it's been said many times before, but these little incident that seemingly happen on a daily basis, everywhere in America, really are why Trump won the election and will likely win again in 2020. These are personal attacks on innocent Americans. The average Joe can relate more to a random guy wearing a hat than they can an angry social justice warrior with an attitude problem and a willingness to verbally assault a complete stranger on the street because of a hat.

 

On this same topic, here's yet another example of harassment/assault over a hat. You really can find examples like this on a daily basis. It's really unfortunate:

 

https://imgur.com/a/KyLse3V

 

an update

 

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14 minutes ago, eastvillagedon said:

an update

 

You could try directly addressing any current events regarding Trump or Republicans.  Giving us an update on the hot take from Diamond and Silk, as if that’s some kind of objective source, serves to only perpetuate the idea that you really may be in over your head when it comes to political discussion.  

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On 5/3/2019 at 2:13 PM, DarkandStormy said:

 

Fox News tried to convince us a fist bump was tied to terrorism, but ok.

 

You continue to post as if you only consume Breitbart and Fox News.  Just a bizarre reality to live in as opposed to going out and having conversations with people.

To be clear and in context In regard to the "fist bump" the New Yorker laid the ground work and Faux News ran with the negative "muslim" narrative about the Obamas.

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I just see stupid behavior on both extremes and think it's a lot easier to not worry if they're on "your side" or not.  Just call a spade a spade - makes everything so much easier.  That said, posting every incident you see that makes you think the other side looks stupid, is in and of itself kinda stupid - especially when it's a random person.  Availability bias doesn't confirm what you think it does.  

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4 hours ago, ck said:

I just see stupid behavior on both extremes and think it's a lot easier to not worry if they're on "your side" or not.  Just call a spade a spade - makes everything so much easier.  That said, posting every incident you see that makes you think the other side looks stupid, is in and of itself kinda stupid - especially when it's a random person.  Availability bias doesn't confirm what you think it does.  

 

I don't know about that.  There's a lot of evidence that liberals police their side far better than conservatives.  Look no further than the issue of politicians/celebrities and sexual assault of women.  That is not to say there aren't any liberal hypocrites who look the other way, but those people don't seem to be the exception more often than not.  And they get called out more on that hypocrisy by other liberals.

Edited by jonoh81

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7 hours ago, ck said:

I just see stupid behavior on both extremes and think it's a lot easier to not worry if they're on "your side" or not.  Just call a spade a spade - makes everything so much easier.  That said, posting every incident you see that makes you think the other side looks stupid, is in and of itself kinda stupid - especially when it's a random person.  Availability bias doesn't confirm what you think it does.  

Exactly, the fact is both sides do it. Both sides are equally as bad. The people who cannot acknowledge that bury their heads in the sand and have a confirmation bias. Just because they may sympathize with many of the issues on that side, does not give them moral superiority. They are both awful in many cases. Politics brings out the worst in people.

 

21 hours ago, jonoh81 said:

 

Come off it, no one believes you're not defending Trump.  The "both sides" rhetoric is such a dead giveaway and always has been.  People like to say that because they don't like how awful their side is being, so they pretend everyone else is doing the same thing.  It's deep deflection.  It's the reason so many Trump supporters bring up Hillary.  She's everything they hate about themselves but ascribe to her.  Maybe instead of being so embarrassed and ashamed of what you've become that you have to act like everyone else is just as bad, maybe just stop defending it altogether.  Better yet, just stop being awful.  Because otherwise, the only thing that's true about "both sides" is where you talk out of your mouth. 

I don't defend Trump. I do sometimes call out the people with Trump Derangement Syndrome when they get completely off the rails. And I would not have had a major beef if Hillary won. I did not vote for her, I voted 3rd party. I thought she was a horrible candidate and ran a lousy campaign, but my criticism of her is mainly how horrible of a candidate she was, but Hillary is old news. 

I speak of both sides because I for one am willing to call out hypocrisy on both the right and left. That is something that many people refuse to want to do.  

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11 hours ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

Exactly, the fact is both sides do it. Both sides are equally as bad. The people who cannot acknowledge that bury their heads in the sand and have a confirmation bias. Just because they may sympathize with many of the issues on that side, does not give them moral superiority. They are both awful in many cases. Politics brings out the worst in people.

 

I don't defend Trump. I do sometimes call out the people with Trump Derangement Syndrome when they get completely off the rails. And I would not have had a major beef if Hillary won. I did not vote for her, I voted 3rd party. I thought she was a horrible candidate and ran a lousy campaign, but my criticism of her is mainly how horrible of a candidate she was, but Hillary is old news. 

I speak of both sides because I for one am willing to call out hypocrisy on both the right and left. That is something that many people refuse to want to do.  

 

The fact that you use "Trump Derangement Syndrome" as if it's not a Right Wing term and not meant to completely undermine all criticism of his presidency- no matter how fact-based and legitimate that criticism is- says it all.  It's like Fox News calling themselves fair and balanced. 

 

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Yes, it was coined by the right wing, but it is a bit appropriate considering there are quite a few on the left who have gone completely batsh*t crazy and get upset at the fact that Trump may take an extra scoop of ice cream or eat too much McDonalds.  Let's at least acknowledge that while we do not like him and while he is a bad president, there are at least some positive things that have come out of the administration. Prison Reform being one that has been lauded by many reasonable thinking people.

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

Yes, it was coined by the right wing, but it is a bit appropriate considering there are quite a few on the left who have gone completely batsh*t crazy and get upset at the fact that Trump may take an extra scoop of ice cream or eat too much McDonalds.  Let's at least acknowledge that while we do not like him and while he is a bad president, there are at least some positive things that have come out of the administration. Prison Reform being one that has been lauded by many reasonable thinking people.

 

 

 

 

 

Another intellectually dishonest post.  Who here has gotten upset about any of those things?  Where was the national outrage, for that matter?  The only thing I remember about the ice cream story, for example, was that it made Trump look childish.  People were mocking him about it, not outraged.  So where is this perception coming from that everyone was upset?  If this is all you have to support your TDS claims, you don't really have anything at all. 

 

Prison reform was a good thing, but then again, I don't remember anything but universal praise for this move, including from liberals, so this is not a good example of liberals simply being partisan against everything Trump does, either.  But by no means does it change the picture of the Trump presidency.  All presidents, even the worst of them, occasionally get something right.  The damage Trump has done, is doing and will do far outweighs that one decent act.  Presidents aren't judged over one thing, or George W. would only be remembered for that one speech he gave after 9/11 rather than say, the Iraq debacle or Katrina.  They are judged by their collective body of work. 

 

Contrary to popular belief, most liberals didn't want Trump to be an awful human being and president.  After he won, many of us were simply hoping for the best.  That didn't happen.  We were right about him all along.  None of us are thrilled by that, at least not that I've ever seen. 

Edited by jonoh81

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59 minutes ago, jonoh81 said:

 

Another intellectually dishonest post.  Who here has gotten upset about any of those things?  Where was the national outrage, for that matter?  The only thing I remember about the ice cream story, for example, was that it made Trump look childish.  People were mocking him about it, not outraged.  So where is this perception coming from that everyone was upset?  If this is all you have to support your TDS claims, you don't really have anything at all. 

 

Prison reform was a good thing, but then again, I don't remember anything but universal praise for this move, including from liberals, so this is not a good example of liberals simply being partisan against everything Trump does, either.  But by no means does it change the picture of the Trump presidency.  All presidents, even the worst of them, occasionally get something right.  The damage Trump has done, is doing and will do far outweighs that one decent act.  Presidents aren't judged over one thing, or George W. would only be remembered for that one speech he gave after 9/11 rather than say, the Iraq debacle or Katrina.  They are judged by their collective body of work. 

 

Contrary to popular belief, most liberals didn't want Trump to be an awful human being and president.  After he won, many of us were simply hoping for the best.  That didn't happen.  We were right about him all along.  None of us are thrilled by that, at least not that I've ever seen. 

 

You weren't right about him, though.   

 

Neither were the Trump true believers.   

 

He's who he always has been regardless of his stated views, which have never been strongly held anyway.   He's a salesman and a con man, and like most con men he can also be easily conned.   Sometimes this is for the better:  Sebastian Gorka convincing him of the difference between Islam and Islamists, Kanye/Kim et al talking him into prison reform.   Sometimes it sucks, Bannon and Mercer and that bunch getting him to think white supremacists were misunderstood nationalists, or the "take them first" approach to guns.    Every bit of it was more or less predictable if you study him closely.   Which isn't neccesarily a good thing for a President.

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2 hours ago, E Rocc said:

 

You weren't right about him, though.   

 

Neither were the Trump true believers.   

 

He's who he always has been regardless of his stated views, which have never been strongly held anyway.   He's a salesman and a con man, and like most con men he can also be easily conned.   Sometimes this is for the better:  Sebastian Gorka convincing him of the difference between Islam and Islamists, Kanye/Kim et al talking him into prison reform.   Sometimes it sucks, Bannon and Mercer and that bunch getting him to think white supremacists were misunderstood nationalists, or the "take them first" approach to guns.    Every bit of it was more or less predictable if you study him closely.   Which isn't neccesarily a good thing for a President.

 

I'm not sure what I wasn't right about.  I didn't post on this political forum back in 2016, but I was one of the few liberals I know that thought Trump had a good chance of winning.  Not because he was a great campaigner or had good ideas, and not even because he's supposedly a con man.  I used to think he was one, but not anymore.  Now I just think he's just an empty vessel, repeating things that he's told with no positions one way or another.  He obviously values things that benefit him personally, but because he has no beliefs to speak of, he can change them at the drop of a hat depending on whatever he was recently told.  That's why he tweets Fox News talking points after he watches Fox News, or repeats Mike Pence's claims about Dems murdering babies after birth.  A con man doesn't get fooled by the con, but Trump does.  He believes whatever he's saying when he's saying it, and even when he changes his view 180 degrees, he will just say he believed that new belief all along.  It's actually worse than being a con man because people with bad intentions, like Putin and Miller, can and do have great influence on his decisions. 

Regarding his supporters,  what better way to influence people when you have (however temporary) the convictions of your changeable beliefs?  They don't see him as a con man because when he says something, he actually believes it's true when he's saying it, even if it's total fact-free bullsh**.  It's why his supporters are always in near total chaos trying to defend his positions, because as soon as they take the same position he has, he changes it to the complete opposite position, leaving them scrambling to defend both or pretending he never had the first position to begin with.  Trump is the worst kind of person, but an even worse leader.  You can't trust anything, and you can expect even less.  But because there are so many people out there who are easily duped, a man like him can still have a large following screaming that he's some kind of political genius playing 47 moves ahead of everyone else.  Now imagine that same level of mindless support controlling the Supreme Court, Congress and the WH.  Well, we don't have to imagine it.  It's here.

And to roll this all back to the thread topic, it's also why he's so dangerous.  A man who has no real convictions, who can be easily swayed by people with criminal intent, who has no motivations other than to serve himself, and with a large following of supporters who never question anything he does and will defend any and all actions, no matter how heinous, can and will promote violence against others.  We've seen it time and time again with immigrants, liberals, the media, Muslims, etc.  It's no mystery why violence against minorities has been skyrocketing the last few years. 

 

 

Edited by jonoh81

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 apparently now people are at risk not just for wearing MAGA hats, but any red cap that looks vaguely similar. 😂

 

Does This Red Cap Make Me Look MAGA?

Some sports fans don’t want to be confused for Trump supporters.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/20/style/red-baseball-hats-maga.html

 

Justin Peterson, a 37-year-old graphic designer who lives in Orlando, Fla., owns nearly 100 baseball caps, including several featuring the familiar “C” logo of the Cincinnati Reds. But when he and his wife visited her family in Cincinnati over the recent Independence Day holiday weekend, Mr. Peterson didn’t bring his red Reds cap. Instead, he opted for the team’s alternate black hat.

 

“Unfortunately, I don’t feel comfortable wearing red baseball hats anymore,” Mr. Peterson said. “I don’t want someone assuming I’m something that I’m not, or that I represent something that I think has become pretty ugly.”

 

There are plenty of people who are proud to wear President Trump’s signature “Make America Great Again” caps, of course, as evinced at recent rallies. When Mr. Trump’s campaign introduced them in 2015, he was dubbed a “marketing genius.” Hats flew off the shelves in the store at the Trump Tower in Midtown as Republican supporters and Democrats alike vied to obtain the accessory of the summer.

 

 

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^ I'm sure that wasn't just one guy's overreaction or anything.  I mean wearing a red Cincinnati Reds baseball hat...in Cincinnati no less...must really make you stand out like a sore thumb. 🙄

Edited by jam40jeff

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3 hours ago, eastvillagedon said:

“Unfortunately, I don’t feel comfortable wearing red baseball hats anymore,” Mr. Peterson said. “I don’t want someone assuming I’m something that I’m not, or that I represent something that I think has become pretty ugly.”

 

 

This is a textbook case of "Trump Derangement Syndrome." The guy is so obsessed with his dislike of President Trump that he no longer finds enjoyment from a significant portion of his beloved hat collection. Psychologists should have a field day studying things like this, but they can't, because they're by and large suffering from the same symptoms.

 

Also, some classic "New York Times" fake news here:

 

Quote

People responding to a reporter’s inquiry said they had stopped wearing red caps advertising things like Maker’s Mark bourbon and Sriracha hot sauce.

 

 

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15 minutes ago, Ram23 said:

This is a textbook case of "Trump Derangement Syndrome." The guy is so obsessed with his dislike of President Trump that he no longer finds enjoyment from a significant portion of his beloved hat collection. Psychologists should have a field day studying things like this, but they can't, because they're by and large suffering from the same symptoms.

 

Conservatives have, at various times, boycotted Keurigs, Nike, the NFL, the NBA, and the Oscars to name a few and you're out here trying to tell us the field day for psychologists is with "Trump Derangement Syndrome" ruining enjoyment.  😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂


Very Stable Genius

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