Cincinnati: Downtown: Development and News

[savadams13 63]

1 minute ago, Ucgrad2015 said:

Does anyone know if the building adjacent to 5/3 on the square can support  additional floors?

The annex building? To the north of the square. If that is what your referring to no it was not built to hold additional floors. Worked on a feasibility study back in 2005 to determine 

[Brutus_buckeye 107]

1 hour ago, savadams13 said:

The annex building? To the north of the square. If that is what your referring to no it was not built to hold additional floors. Worked on a feasibility study back in 2005 to determine 

 

We maybe 5/3 can develop their air rights above the old Macy's to expand their corporate campus that direction.

[savadams13 63]

1 hour ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

 

We maybe 5/3 can develop their air rights above the old Macy's to expand their corporate campus that direction.

5/3 sold those air rights to 3CDC. Not to pop that balloon but that's probably not going to happen.

[lobanio0 15]

Reading through the historical packet it appears that 414 central is going to become a brewery? 

 

https://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/buildings/historic-conservation/historic-conservation-board/november-4-2019-staff-report-and-attachments/

 

first i I had seen of this....

[taestell 788]

That will be used by Rebel Mettle Brewery, which was originally planning to go into the former Clyffside Brewery on McMicken, but the timing didn't work out.

 

On 8/26/2019 at 5:20 PM, ColDayMan said:

Downtown getting first new brewery in more than a decade

 

 

Downtown Cincinnati is getting its first new brewery in more than a decade – and the city's first veteran-owned brewery – in a project coming to Fourth Street.

 

Rebel Mettle Brewery is coming to 412 Central Ave.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2019/08/26/exclusive-downtown-getting-first-new-brewery-in.html

[NsideProp 10]

I think this is the same group that was going to be in the Hamilton/Sohn Brewery. Rebel Mettle. 

[mcmicken 71]

18 hours ago, NsideProp said:

I think this is the same group that was going to be in the Hamilton/Sohn Brewery. Rebel Mettle. 

It is. Apparently Hamilton/Sohn/Clyffside is still not out of the running for a second location.

[troeros 113]

34 minutes ago, mcmicken said:

It is. Apparently Hamilton/Sohn/Clyffside is still not out of the running for a second location.

 

Interesting share more!

[troeros 113]

15 minutes ago, savadams13 said:

 

Too many pots on the stove right now for 3CDC, but they created this for themselves by allowing local government to be hostile to out of state developers. 

 

 

Can you elaborate? Did an out of town developer want to redevelop fountain place? 

 

Just seems odd that if 3cdc is simply redeveloping the property by including office space on the upper levels, and new commercial tenants on the ground floor that it would take almost a year for any activity or movement since there purchase back in January.

 

Seems counter productive towards 3cdc mission of "reactivating spaces and the urban core" by letting Cincinnati's most prime real estate sit completely vacant for so long now without any movement or progress on the site. 

[savadams13 63]

1 hour ago, troeros said:

 

 

Can you elaborate? Did an out of town developer want to redevelop fountain place? 

 

Just seems odd that if 3cdc is simply redeveloping the property by including office space on the upper levels, and new commercial tenants on the ground floor that it would take almost a year for any activity or movement since there purchase back in January.

 

Seems counter productive towards 3cdc mission of "reactivating spaces and the urban core" by letting Cincinnati's most prime real estate sit completely vacant for so long now without any movement or progress on the site. 

 

Cranley and company have made a hostile environment for out of town developers. Giving preference to 3CDC and local benefactors to his campaign. I have seen a number of out of town developers pass on Cincinnati knowing about this environment.  I dont hate on 3CDC but they are stretched thin at the moment internally on all the different projects they are working on. Fountain Place is on the back burner at the moment. 

Edited November 13, 2019 by savadams13

[646empire 12]

41 minutes ago, savadams13 said:

 

Cranley and company have made a hostile environment for out of town developers. Giving preference to 3CDC and local benefactors to his campaign. I have seen a number of out of town developers base Cincinnati by know about this environment.  I dont hate on 3CDC but they are stretched thin at the moment internally on all the different projects they are working on. Fountain Place is on the back burner at the moment. 

100% Disagree, from everything I have heard over the past few weeks Fountain Place is definitely not “on the back burner”. It’s actually priority number 1. The city/Cranley recognizes this property can’t sit vacant much longer it’s a massive drag on everything around it. I’m hoping/ thinking we get news in the next few weeks or so.

[troeros 113]

1 hour ago, savadams13 said:

 

Cranley and company have made a hostile environment for out of town developers. Giving preference to 3CDC and local benefactors to his campaign. I have seen a number of out of town developers base Cincinnati by know about this environment.  I dont hate on 3CDC but they are stretched thin at the moment internally on all the different projects they are working on. Fountain Place is on the back burner at the moment. 

 

Just browsing 3cdc current projects page...

 

They are still wrapped up with;

 

Behlen Building

 

Meiner's Building

 

4th and Race

 

Doesn't seem that much of a heavy work load at the moment compared to past years. 

 

 

[JoeHarmon 27]

The are also in the planning stages on building out townhomes on Pleasant, and infilling Vine in between 15th and Liberty.    Also, while I have no information on this, I have to assume they are trying to purchase the Wade's land behind the old Krogers.

[troeros 113]

44 minutes ago, JoeHarmon said:

The are also in the planning stages on building out townhomes on Pleasant, and infilling Vine in between 15th and Liberty.    Also, while I have no information on this, I have to assume they are trying to purchase the Wade's land behind the old Krogers.

 

Sure, but as mentioned before 3cdc is literally not making improvements to fountain place, they are just filling in the vacant businesses with new businesses. I understand if they were going to build a new mixed use tower on that site but they arent...so your telling me it takes a year to find businesses to open at fountain place?

[646empire 12]

3 hours ago, troeros said:

 

Just browsing 3cdc current projects page...

 

They are still wrapped up with;

 

Behlen Building

 

Meiner's Building

 

4th and Race

 

Doesn't seem that much of a heavy work load at the moment compared to past years. 

 

 

Exactly. I had looked at their project list a few weeks or so ago and thought the same thing. The fact is they do have lots of projects that are in the planning stage including Fountain Place but that’s about it at the moment. Now that the 1010 Kroger project along with those small court street buildings are pretty much done,  3CDC doesn’t  actually have much under construction* to warrant all this “3CDC is overwhelmed with so many projects” talk I keep seeing lol.

[taestell 788]

Willkommen is also a huge project. Not to mention other ongoing efforts around Court Street.
 

If the city had let F&C do 4th & Race themselves as originally planned, that would free 3CDC up to work on something else. But Cranley had to bring in 3CDC as a partner on that project.

[Pdrome513 19]

Seems as good a time as any to ask: can anyone ELI5 what 3CDC is doing with their parking leases around the urban core and why they are doing it? 

[ColDayMan 663]

Historical downtown building sells; owner plans renovations

 

 

Historical downtown building sells; owner plans renovations. Property name: 133 W. Fourth St. Behind the deal: Craft worked with the buyer and seller to come to terms on the historical building.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2019/12/11/historical-downtown-building-sells-owner-plans.html

[DEPACincy 421]

Temporary road diet on Vine. As far as I know, traffic hasn't really been affected.

[thesenator 10]

4 hours ago, DEPACincy said:

Temporary road diet on Vine. As far as I know, traffic hasn't really been affected.

Short term pain brings long term gain.  Bringing 4th Street back to life with both new construction and historic renovations begins to reconnect the riverfront to Downtown.  Hopefully this further justifies building over FWW.

Edited December 24, 2019 by thesenator
Clarity

[thesenator 10]

Some great questions posted by Steve Dieters on FB.  I'd like to hear your thoughts.

 

Part 1. Random questions boiling beneath the surface to end the year and looking for answers in the coming year for the city of Cincinnati:

 

What’s the status of the hillside rehabilitation along Columbia Parkway? Is it on budget or is a surprise(s) coming?

 

What’s the abatement strategy for the city and the developers who seek them now that the agreement with board of education is expiring with no agreement in place?

 

For 2020 can city council in the spirit of Murray Seasongood and good government break this reliance of “emergency” ordinances that the developer community has come to rely on to achieve their goals? Rightly and wrongly it appears to being used to “game” the system and circumvent the needs of the city as a whole for the benefit of a few.

 

To what degree will the city and developers use The Port in the coming year to create new tax dodging entities for their benefit?

 

Will 2020 be the year when an elected official asks the question, “If people can afford $400 to $600,000+ houses in the neighborhoods while seeking an abatement why can’t they afford to pay the real estate taxes for them?”

 

The developers in OTR who bought abated property literally on the wrong side of the streetcar tracks find the costs to connect the water main $100,000+ since they have to horizontally drill under the tracks. The typical new connection by the water department charges $2300 and is still short of covering the costs. The question is to what extent will these developers who have typically already received an abatement and not to mention the inherent property enhancer of the streetcar as described in the studies leading up to its construction will ask the city taxpayers/water utility ratepayers to cover this enhanced cost? This is an issue where entrepreneurial risk and the principle of caveat emptor for the developer meet the road-literally and figuratively.

 

What is the status of the pre-school promise with enrollment and performance? It has been on line for a couple of years now.

 

When will the streetcar eventually be “free” and how will that revenue shortfall be covered? What is the projected increase in ridership?

Edited December 24, 2019 by thesenator
Formatting

[jmecklenborg 579]

Tax abatements are only one small issue facing the funding of public schools.  The much bigger issue is that they are primarily funded via local property taxes - not from a statewide method that evens the playing field across the state.  If you're going to get upset and put some effort into changing things, put that effort into the problems that exist at the state level.  

[GCrites80s 440]

^Can't I just talk to my township trustee about it? I see him sometimes

[jim uber 17]

58 minutes ago, thesenator said:

 

The developers in OTR who bought abated property literally on the wrong side of the streetcar tracks find the costs to connect the water main $100,000+ since they have to horizontally drill under the tracks. The typical new connection by the water department charges $2300 and is still short of covering the costs. The question is to what extent will these developers who have typically already received an abatement and not to mention the inherent property enhancer of the streetcar as described in the studies leading up to its construction will ask the city taxpayers/water utility ratepayers to cover this enhanced cost? This is an issue where entrepreneurial risk and the principle of caveat emptor for the developer meet the road-literally and figuratively.

This is obviously wrong. Nobody is paying $100K+ for a residential water service, using a well established technology employed throughout the construction industry.

[taestell 788]

Steve Dieters is a concern troll.

[Ram23 81]

On 12/24/2019 at 12:36 PM, jim uber said:

This is obviously wrong. Nobody is paying $100K+ for a residential water service, using a well established technology employed throughout the construction industry.

 

A 2" line one the streetcar route is $6,080 - GCWW has fixed rates for these:

 

https://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/water/water-sewer-service-charges/rates-for-installation-of-water-service-branches/

 

If it is a 4" or larger line (usually for sprinklers) then it's a different story - but $100,000 seems high.

[jmecklenborg 579]

34 minutes ago, Ram23 said:

 

A 2" line one the streetcar route is $6,080 - GCWW has fixed rates for these:

 

https://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/water/water-sewer-service-charges/rates-for-installation-of-water-service-branches/

 

If it is a 4" or larger line (usually for sprinklers) then it's a different story - but $100,000 seems high.

 

Incidentally, if you buy a vacant city lot where a house once stood, said lot might or might not have a water connection.  If it does and you want to maintain said connection for future development, you have to pay a nominal water bill of about $7 per month.  If you elect to be cut off, it is roughly $6,000 to be reconnected in the future.  

 

 

[taestell 788]

I really hope this happens. The current design of the downtown library is so anti-urban with its massive setbacks, underutilized plazas, and parking lot at the NW corner of Ninth and Walnut. Having street-level retail (and potentially housing above) right next to the streetcar stop would be huge.

 

 

[Chas Wiederhold 97]

The idea to pair [affordable] housing with a great civic amenity like a library is an outstanding idea that has proven positive in other cities. 

https://www.chicagotribune.com/real-estate/ct-affordable-housing-libraries-0728-20190719-5kwcmtfycjbypjrabtvytulpia-story.html

[troeros 113]

4 hours ago, taestell said:

I really hope this happens. The current design of the downtown library is so anti-urban with its massive setbacks, underutilized plazas, and parking lot at the NW corner of Ninth and Walnut. Having street-level retail (and potentially housing above) right next to the streetcar stop would be huge.

 

 

 

This would be amazing! Would be great for increasing pedestrian traffic around the library. This seems costly though? I wonder if 3cdc would be willing to partner with them on the residential portion. 

[taestell 788]

I bet that is exactly what happens.

[northsider 4]

On 1/10/2020 at 2:49 PM, taestell said:

I really hope this happens. The current design of the downtown library is so anti-urban with its massive setbacks, underutilized plazas, and parking lot at the NW corner of Ninth and Walnut. Having street-level retail (and potentially housing above) right next to the streetcar stop would be huge.

 

 

I'd be totally up for option A, but it looks like options B and C would mean that the library garden would be demolished to create a new main entrance. 

The library garden is one of my very favorite spaces in the city; it's a little oasis.  I'd hate to see it go for a bigger development when there's all these parking lots on Walnut that are begging for development.

[taestell 788]

Here is the link to the Library's full document.

[thebillshark 98]

23 minutes ago, northsider said:

I'd be totally up for option A, but it looks like options B and C would mean that the library garden would be demolished to create a new main entrance. 

The library garden is one of my very favorite spaces in the city; it's a little oasis.  I'd hate to see it go for a bigger development when there's all these parking lots on Walnut that are begging for development.

the library garden is on the vine street side of the north building. This is on the walnut street side of the south building. This is where the raised bed with ivy is (and the parking lot) by the streetcar stop

[northsider 4]

1 minute ago, thebillshark said:

the library garden is on the vine street side of the north building. This is on the walnut street side of the south building. This is where the raised bed with ivy is (and the parking lot) by the streetcar stop

 

The Vine Street garden is actually the children's garden, which was built when they made the northern expansion. I'm talking about the Reading Garden, which is on 8th Street. If you haven't been I highly recommend it, it's a beautiful space with lots of shade and a pond. Very relaxing to sit there and read while hearing city sounds but feeling enclosed and private.

 

Again, looking at the doc that Taestell linked, this space would be gone under options B and C to make a new main entrance.

 

 

[taestell 788]

Moved discussion about the casino here.

[jwulsin 88]

I think the 8th St "Reading Garden" could be maintained in some way, even if some version of Options B/C were pursued. I agree that it's a lovely urban oasis, and I think it would be even more special if the development on Walnut happened. Versions B and C both have entrances to the library along Walnut (as well as the existing entrances on Vine), so that might be sufficient. If an entrance along 8th is necessary, it could be directly to the side of the Garden, or potentially there could be an entrance "through" the garden. The design would have to be sensitive to the garden, to not destroy what makes it feel special... but I think a good landscape architect could pull it off.