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Cincinnati: Downtown: Development and News

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I mean that has happened in a lot of us cities as well...it’s not something super unique to cincy....hell, look at nyc and the demolition of the beautiful penn station..

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I am pretty sure that it was the Western & Southern Insurance Co. who did us the favor of ridding the city of that hideous monstrosity.  The loss is actually compounded if you can see those amazing old stone mansions just to West of the Odd Fellows Temple.  https://www.kentonlibrary.org/genphotos/viewimage.php?i=di107354 

 

 

Correct. Somewhere I read an article that was written during the demo of how such an outdated structure would soon be finally cleared to make way for the future. If i remember right the Odd Fellows when bankrupt due to how elaborate & expensive it was so ownership went back to the financier. It existed for a ridiculously short time.

 

EDIT: Well i was sorta correct. It stood for just 45 years  http://www.diggingcincinnati.com/2014/05/seventh-and-elm.html

 

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Holy shit, you just ruined my weekend! Ugh, who in their right mind would allow that beautiful building to be torn down and replaced with the hunk of garbage we have now?

 

Baby Boomers

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^Actually the parents of the baby boomers ("the greatest generation")...during the "redevelopment" of our cities during the 50s 60s and early 70s, baby boomers were infants, children, pre-teens, teens and, in the later years, just starting their careers, and hardly in decision making positions.

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WCPO published this list of 12 tax credit recipients in the latest round: https://www.wcpo.com/news/transportation-development/development/cincinnati-s-traction-building-hamilton-s-champion-paper-mill-win-big-in-historic-tax-credits

 

The Traction Building on Walnut Street received a $4,200,321 credit. It is being converted to a 147-room Kimpton Hotel. The entire project is expected to cost $48.3 million.

 

The Champion Paper No. 2 Mill, on North B Street in Hamilton, received $4,795,000. It's one of several buildings associated with Champion Paper's operations and was once the city's largest employer. The mill operated for more than 100 years before closing in 2000. The $48.1 million rehabilitation project will convert the large industrial building into a hotel and event center to complement a future indoor sports complex.

 

22 W. Elder St., Cincinnati

Total Project Cost:  $1,816,167

Total Tax Credit:  $180,000

Part of a much larger revitalization project by the Model Group near Findlay Market in Over-the-Rhine, this vacant building will be rehabilitated into four apartments and a commercial space on the ground floor.

 

22-24 W. Seventh St., Cincinnati

Total Project Cost:  $1,790,000

Total Tax Credit:  $245,000

An eight-story building in downtown Cincinnati's Race Street Historic District, this building is an early example of the transition from smaller-scale commercial buildings to modern skyscrapers. After years of vacancy, the c. 1898 building will be rehabilitated into 14 two-bedroom apartments and two commercial spaces.

 

100 E. Clifton Ave., Cincinnati

Total Project Cost:  $1,447,725

Total Tax Credit:  $202,000

This building shares a similar history with many others like it in Over-the-Rhine as it served for more than a century as apartments. After the rehabilitation, the building will have six residential units while retaining its historic fabric. 100 E. Clifton is part of a cluster of three adjacent properties in common ownership that were all awarded credits this round.

 

101 Peete St., Cincinnati

Total Project Cost:  $926,114

Total Tax Credit:  $129,000

101 Peete is a historic tenement building in Over-the-Rhine. Vacant for many years, the building will be rehabilitated into five residential units. This building is part of a cluster of three adjacent properties in common ownership that were all awarded credits this round.

 

105 Peete St., Cincinnati

Total Project Cost:  $901,505

Total Tax Credit:  $126,000

A twin to its neighbor at 101 Peete, this building also will be rehabilitated into five residential units after many years of vacancy. It is part of a cluster of three adjacent properties in common ownership that were all awarded credits this round.

 

207 W. McMicken Ave., Cincinnati

Total Project Cost:  $600,000

Total Tax Credit:  $84,500

Constructed around 1860, this building in Over-the-Rhine was originally a single-family house but was later converted into apartments. In the past 20 years, it has been largely vacant and even lacked a roof until it was recently stabilized. Current plans call for rehabilitation into three 3-bedroom apartments.

 

430-432 W. McMicken Ave., Cincinnati

Total Project Cost:  $465,244

Total Tax Credit:  $51,000

This duplex tells the story of the settlement, development, and population trends of the Mohawk area of Cincinnati. Built prior to 1880, it is one of the few surviving wood-frame buildings in the area. After extreme water damage caused structural failure to the rear of the building, the current owners plan to rehabilitate the building into apartments, retaining its historic fabric.

 

509 E. 12th St., Cincinnati

Total Project Cost:  $1,203,467

Total Tax Credit:  $196,500

The two buildings in this project sit on the front and rear of a property in the Pendleton area of the Over-the-Rhine Historic District. After serving as housing for approximately 130 years, the buildings sat vacant for another 20 years and suffered a fire in 2016. The buildings will be rehabilitated into seven one- and two-bedroom apartments.

 

1035 Dayton St., Cincinnati

Total Project Cost:  $1,061,311

Total Tax Credit:  $106,000

Located in Cincinnati's Dayton Street Historic District, this circa-1874 building contained commercial space on the ground floor with apartments above. After being vacant for approximately 15 years, the building needs extensive rehabilitation work. After the project is complete, the building will have five residential units and one commercial space.

 

1919 Vine St., Cincinnati

Total Project Cost:  $423,662

Total Tax Credit:  $83,000

1919 Vine Street is one of three "sister" buildings that were all built around the same time of similar appearance. It remained in residential use from the time it was built in 1905 until it was vacated a few years ago. After completion, it will house two market-rate apartments. The developer is also working on a project up the street that received tax credits in a recent round.

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WCPO published this list of 12 tax credit recipients in the latest round: https://www.wcpo.com/news/transportation-development/development/cincinnati-s-traction-building-hamilton-s-champion-paper-mill-win-big-in-historic-tax-credits

 

The Traction Building on Walnut Street received a $4,200,321 credit. It is being converted to a 147-room Kimpton Hotel. The entire project is expected to cost $48.3 million.

 

The Champion Paper No. 2 Mill, on North B Street in Hamilton, received $4,795,000. It's one of several buildings associated with Champion Paper's operations and was once the city's largest employer. The mill operated for more than 100 years before closing in 2000. The $48.1 million rehabilitation project will convert the large industrial building into a hotel and event center to complement a future indoor sports complex.

 

22 W. Elder St., Cincinnati

Total Project Cost:  $1,816,167

Total Tax Credit:  $180,000

Part of a much larger revitalization project by the Model Group near Findlay Market in Over-the-Rhine, this vacant building will be rehabilitated into four apartments and a commercial space on the ground floor.

 

22-24 W. Seventh St., Cincinnati

Total Project Cost:  $1,790,000

Total Tax Credit:  $245,000

An eight-story building in downtown Cincinnati's Race Street Historic District, this building is an early example of the transition from smaller-scale commercial buildings to modern skyscrapers. After years of vacancy, the c. 1898 building will be rehabilitated into 14 two-bedroom apartments and two commercial spaces.

 

100 E. Clifton Ave., Cincinnati

Total Project Cost:  $1,447,725

Total Tax Credit:  $202,000

This building shares a similar history with many others like it in Over-the-Rhine as it served for more than a century as apartments. After the rehabilitation, the building will have six residential units while retaining its historic fabric. 100 E. Clifton is part of a cluster of three adjacent properties in common ownership that were all awarded credits this round.

 

101 Peete St., Cincinnati

Total Project Cost:  $926,114

Total Tax Credit:  $129,000

101 Peete is a historic tenement building in Over-the-Rhine. Vacant for many years, the building will be rehabilitated into five residential units. This building is part of a cluster of three adjacent properties in common ownership that were all awarded credits this round.

 

105 Peete St., Cincinnati

Total Project Cost:  $901,505

Total Tax Credit:  $126,000

A twin to its neighbor at 101 Peete, this building also will be rehabilitated into five residential units after many years of vacancy. It is part of a cluster of three adjacent properties in common ownership that were all awarded credits this round.

 

207 W. McMicken Ave., Cincinnati

Total Project Cost:  $600,000

Total Tax Credit:  $84,500

Constructed around 1860, this building in Over-the-Rhine was originally a single-family house but was later converted into apartments. In the past 20 years, it has been largely vacant and even lacked a roof until it was recently stabilized. Current plans call for rehabilitation into three 3-bedroom apartments.

 

430-432 W. McMicken Ave., Cincinnati

Total Project Cost:  $465,244

Total Tax Credit:  $51,000

This duplex tells the story of the settlement, development, and population trends of the Mohawk area of Cincinnati. Built prior to 1880, it is one of the few surviving wood-frame buildings in the area. After extreme water damage caused structural failure to the rear of the building, the current owners plan to rehabilitate the building into apartments, retaining its historic fabric.

 

509 E. 12th St., Cincinnati

Total Project Cost:  $1,203,467

Total Tax Credit:  $196,500

The two buildings in this project sit on the front and rear of a property in the Pendleton area of the Over-the-Rhine Historic District. After serving as housing for approximately 130 years, the buildings sat vacant for another 20 years and suffered a fire in 2016. The buildings will be rehabilitated into seven one- and two-bedroom apartments.

 

1035 Dayton St., Cincinnati

Total Project Cost:  $1,061,311

Total Tax Credit:  $106,000

Located in Cincinnati's Dayton Street Historic District, this circa-1874 building contained commercial space on the ground floor with apartments above. After being vacant for approximately 15 years, the building needs extensive rehabilitation work. After the project is complete, the building will have five residential units and one commercial space.

 

1919 Vine St., Cincinnati

Total Project Cost:  $423,662

Total Tax Credit:  $83,000

1919 Vine Street is one of three "sister" buildings that were all built around the same time of similar appearance. It remained in residential use from the time it was built in 1905 until it was vacated a few years ago. After completion, it will house two market-rate apartments. The developer is also working on a project up the street that received tax credits in a recent round.

 

This is the list of winners but there should be a list somewhere of every project that applied this round. It is always interesting to see the projects that didn't make the cut.

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^ You can find that on the State website. I believe there were something like 110 applications from Cincinnati alone- far more than any other city in the state.

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Looks like a fabulous project!

 

I wonder what they will look to do with the two? buildings just to the south, is one just the facade? Does 3CDC own that too? This is a 3CDC project, correct?

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Looks like a fabulous project!

 

I wonder what they will look to do with the two? buildings just to the south, is one just the facade? Does 3CDC own that too? This is a 3CDC project, correct?

 

I would guess that they're waiting for whoever owns that 1970s-looking glass building to sell so they can use that space. 

 

 

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How many rooms would the hotel have?

 

93 room hotel. Hi5 Development is working on the project with City Studios Architecture. I highly doubt Hi5 is going to go the boutique route with a property its just not there typical business plan. I would assume it would be a limited service brand that isnt represented in the downtown/southbank area.

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I highly doubt Hi5 is going to go the boutique route with a property its just not there typical business plan. I would assume it would be a limited service brand that isnt represented in the downtown/southbank area.

 

Why do you say "limited service"? The plans show a restaurant, bar, and kitchen on the first floor and a rooftop bar. Doesn't the inclusion of a restaurant and kitchen - by definition - mean it'll be "full service"? Due to the complexity of construction (combining historic with new construction) and the location, I suspect they'll be charging pretty high prices per room. The term "boutique hotel" is much more nebulous, so I don't really want to argue whether or not it'll be a "boutique" (for what its worth, their plans call it a "boutique" hotel).

boutique.JPG.6fd433fb61bf66011720f5fadcd5197b.JPG

ground.thumb.JPG.9203f96f8a056f53bcd74c82c127ba38.JPG

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Here's the current state of those buildings BTW:

 

30368555761_8bb69b6597_b.jpg

 

The last plan announced for those buildings was from 2012. At that time 3CDC wanted to make each building into five condos, which I assume meant that each building would've essentially been a single family townhome, except with retail on the ground floor.

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I highly doubt Hi5 is going to go the boutique route with a property its just not there typical business plan. I would assume it would be a limited service brand that isnt represented in the downtown/southbank area.

 

Why do you say "limited service"? The plans show a restaurant, bar, and kitchen on the first floor and a rooftop bar. Doesn't the inclusion of a restaurant and kitchen - by definition - mean it'll be "full service"? Due to the complexity of construction (combining historic with new construction) and the location, I suspect they'll be charging pretty high prices per room. The term "boutique hotel" is much more nebulous, so I don't really want to argue whether or not it'll be a "boutique" (for what its worth, their plans call it a "boutique" hotel).

 

Because when our firm or any firm goes in for a project like a hotel, we call it boutique instead of calling it by the brand name of the property, in case there is an issue with franchisee agreements. I have looked at the plans posted a couple times now with a couple of colleagues, it still fits in the limited service brand segment. The kitchen is not big enough by size to have a significant capacity of food or menu. Which means this kitchen is prepping and making breakfast and manager happy hour items, maybe small appetizers to be sold at the bar in the evening. For instance Aloft is limited service, but has a kitchen to produce grab and go items at breakfast and evening snacks for the xyz prototype bar. Homewood Suites, Residence Inn has a kitchen to produce hot breakfast, and small dinner items Monday-Thursday. However these three brands just to name a few are considered limited service brands in the hospitality industry.

 

Also being that i have worked for projects in historical areas (Savannah, Charleston) before doesn't mean it cant have a facade like the existing buildings on Main but be a lower end brand like Holiday Inn Express, Hampton Inn, Fairfield Inn etc. Owners/Developers typically get better ROI on these brands even if they spend a bit more saving some historic storefronts for the right location.

 

I have worked in this industry for ten years now and I am giving urbanohio my informative thoughts on this project.

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This should be good for The Banks, I imagine. If we can't get another hotel down there (hello, remaining phase 1 office pad), this is probably the next best place for one. These buildings are also very visible to people coming and going to Reds games, and they have been vacant as long as I can remember. It will be nice for all those people going to games to be able to walk by a hotel rather than vacant buildings.

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Turning those into condos without doing a facadectomy would be tough because you'd need to get elevators in there.  Nobody's going to buy a 4th floor walk-up condo over about $300k if it doesn't have an elevator. 

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I highly doubt Hi5 is going to go the boutique route with a property its just not there typical business plan. I would assume it would be a limited service brand that isnt represented in the downtown/southbank area.

 

Why do you say "limited service"? The plans show a restaurant, bar, and kitchen on the first floor and a rooftop bar. Doesn't the inclusion of a restaurant and kitchen - by definition - mean it'll be "full service"? Due to the complexity of construction (combining historic with new construction) and the location, I suspect they'll be charging pretty high prices per room. The term "boutique hotel" is much more nebulous, so I don't really want to argue whether or not it'll be a "boutique" (for what its worth, their plans call it a "boutique" hotel).

 

Because when our firm or any firm goes in for a project like a hotel, we call it boutique instead of calling it by the brand name of the property, in case there is an issue with franchisee agreements. I have looked at the plans posted a couple times now with a couple of colleagues, it still fits in the limited service brand segment. The kitchen is not big enough by size to have a significant capacity of food or menu. Which means this kitchen is prepping and making breakfast and manager happy hour items, maybe small appetizers to be sold at the bar in the evening. For instance Aloft is limited service, but has a kitchen to produce grab and go items at breakfast and evening snacks for the xyz prototype bar. Homewood Suites, Residence Inn has a kitchen to produce hot breakfast, and small dinner items Monday-Thursday. However these three brands just to name a few are considered limited service brands in the hospitality industry.

 

Also being that i have worked for projects in historical areas (Savannah, Charleston) before doesn't mean it cant have a facade like the existing buildings on Main but be a lower end brand like Holiday Inn Express, Hampton Inn, Fairfield Inn etc. Owners/Developers typically get better ROI on these brands even if they spend a bit more saving some historic storefronts for the right location.

 

I have worked in this industry for ten years now and I am giving urbanohio my informative thoughts on this project.

 

Thanks! You definitely know more than I do! I thought "limited service" just meant "no kitchen, no restaurant". Thanks for the info!

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Turning those into condos without doing a facadectomy would be tough because you'd need to get elevators in there.  Nobody's going to buy a 4th floor walk-up condo over about $300k if it doesn't have an elevator. 

 

Property values get high enough and people will... though at a discount to everything around it.

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Property values get high enough and people will... though at a discount to everything around it.

 

Yeah a younger person might, but then would learn their lesson the first time they get sick or injured and can hardly get back into or out of their unit. 

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Honest question:

 

What do the hundreds of thousands of people across cities in Europe do in situations like that?

 

I stayed in an airbnb in Paris on the 7th floor with no elevator in a 200+ year old building. If you break your leg, what you do in that situation?

 

Or maybe its not really that common for something like that to happen to those people because they aren't out 4 wheeling or jet skiing on the weekends.

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Honest question:

 

What do the hundreds of thousands of people across cities in Europe do in situations like that?

 

I stayed in an airbnb in Paris on the 7th floor with no elevator in a 200+ year old building. If you break your leg, what you do in that situation?

 

Or maybe its not really that common for something like that to happen to those people because they aren't out 4 wheeling or jet skiing on the weekends.

 

They have universal healthcare so they get their injuries fixed instead of letting them nag for years?

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There are plenty of walkups in other US cities and obviously tons around the world.  It's something you have to deal with when living in certain urban environments. 

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Honest question:

 

What do the hundreds of thousands of people across cities in Europe do in situations like that?

 

I stayed in an airbnb in Paris on the 7th floor with no elevator in a 200+ year old building. If you break your leg, what you do in that situation?

 

Or maybe its not really that common for something like that to happen to those people because they aren't out 4 wheeling or jet skiing on the weekends.

 

This is completely anecdotal, but it seems like I see a lot of elderly people in foreign countries and even in some big US cities that have no problems walking around, going up stairs, etc. If you saw them from a distance you would assume they are 50 or 60, not 80 or 90. But in most of the US, most of our elderly people have all sorts of problems getting around, struggling to even walk more than a few steps without a cane or mobility scooter. It's almost like, if you spend your entire life in urban areas, walking multiple blocks to go places and going up multiple flights of stairs every day, it's no big deal; but if you spend most of your life in the suburbs, driving everywhere, you run into more health problems as you get older...

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Property values get high enough and people will... though at a discount to everything around it.

 

Yeah a younger person might, but then would learn their lesson the first time they get sick or injured and can hardly get back into or out of their unit. 

 

Doesn't always work this way in larger cities, I think Travis is right on this.

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We have a neighbor here in E. Walnut Hills across the street and he is 80 I could have sworn he was 65, the dude gets up on his three story roof and is chopping down trees and stuff, it's incredible!

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This is completely anecdotal, but it seems like I see a lot of elderly people in foreign countries and even in some big US cities that have no problems walking around, going up stairs, etc. If you saw them from a distance you would assume they are 50 or 60, not 80 or 90. But in most of the US, most of our elderly people have all sorts of problems getting around, struggling to even walk more than a few steps without a cane or mobility scooter. It's almost like, if you spend your entire life in urban areas, walking multiple blocks to go places and going up multiple flights of stairs every day, it's no big deal; but if you spend most of your life in the suburbs, driving everywhere, you run into more health problems as you get older...

 

I notice this as well. Whenever I am at Kroger, I see people who are in their 50's or even younger really struggling to get from their vehicle to the store, and then grabbing one of those electric scooters. I have seen several young but very overweight people do the same.

 

But abroad you see older people climbing in and out of trams/metros/mini-busses with bags, riding bikes with loads on their back, and everything else.

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So is the new addition going to front 3rd street or Main?

 

It will front Hammond Street. You will probably see it sticking out visually from Second street than Third Street

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Boutique hotel planned for historic Main Street buildings

 

mainstreethotel3*750xx754-424-0-40.jpg

 

Three historic downtown Cincinnati buildings could be combined to become a boutique hotel.

 

Cincinnati Center City Development Corp. is scheduled to go before the Historic Conservation Board on Aug. 6 for a certificate of appropriateness and zoning relief for the buildings at 308-316 Main St. 3CDC is proposing to demolish a rear portion of the buildings and construct an addition to create a 93-room hotel. New signage and canopies are being proposed and will require zoning relief.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/08/06/exclusive-boutique-hotel-planned-for-historic-main.html


"You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers

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Planned boutique hotel on Main Street lands key approval

 

A plan to combine three historic buildings on Main Street in downtown Cincinnati received a key approval on Monday.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/08/07/planned-boutique-hotel-on-main-street-lands-key.html


"You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers

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Is 3rd time the charm to convert former P&G office building into a hotel?

 

A former Procter & Gamble Co. office building in downtown Cincinnati could get new life as a hotel.

 

This marks the third time building owner Scott Street Partners has had a deal with a hotel operator to open a hotel at 299 E. Sixth St. The two previous deals to convert the 10-story historic building into a hotel did not come to fruition.

 

According to the Ohio Historic Preservation Tax Credit application for the project, the conversion of the Duttenhofer Building, also known as the Sycamore Building, would be a $27.5 million investment. The project is requesting more than $2.7 million in tax credits.

 

Cont.


"It's just fate, as usual, keeping its bargain and screwing us in the fine print..." - John Crichton

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"It's just fate, as usual, keeping its bargain and screwing us in the fine print..." - John Crichton

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"Negotiating Lease for Fortune 100 Retailer"..... aka a fu**ing Amazon distribution center. Not even back office jobs, just another distribution center like what is opening in Monroe. Biz Courier really overhyped this one.

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