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Cleveland: Westinghouse Redevelopment

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41 minutes ago, CbusTransit said:

Oh this one sounds good...

 

a certificate of disclosure has had been filed with the city between paramount-breakwater properties (seller) and sustainable community associates (buyer) for the purchase of a property at 1200 west 58th street...the abandoned Westinghouse tower

 

I think this calls for a separate thread. Josh Rosen's development team is sure to do a fantastic job with this large, highly visible property.

 

WestinghouseBuilding1.jpg

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"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" -- Lady Liberty

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Long overdue.  I did a development proforma for this property in my masters in urban planning class at CSU about 12 yrs ago... that was when Battery Park was just starting to take shape and Detroit Shoreway was emerging...  shocking to me how long this property has sat given the height/views/parking/location etc.  It seems like a slam dunk from every aspect

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28 minutes ago, StapHanger said:

Very excellent news. Hope the sale includes the lower slung factory building that was partially demoed by the Edison. 

 

An indoor farmers market, perhaps? Maybe a food hall?

 

BTW, behind the photo above, I'd add a BRT stop on the Shoreway. This warehouse conversion, plus Edison phase 2 and maybe more, might justify adding a station with pullover lanes for buses (or by adding an intersection here).

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"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" -- Lady Liberty

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Can't wait to see this thing lit up at night. Excited that @misterjoshr and Sustainable is behind this. I assume they will go after historic tax credits. Wonder if the numbers would work for some 'for sale' units.

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I know this developer did the Fairmount Creamery project, but does anyone have a list of other projects in/around Cleveland?

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And here's a record of the certificate of disclosure which was submitted Jan. 22 and processed (aka "closed") Jan. 25. So now it's public record......

 

 

Westinghouse-CertOfDisclosure.JPG

Edited by KJP

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" -- Lady Liberty

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Edison-Westinghouse2015.jpg

 

FRIDAY, JANUARY 25, 2019

Old Westinghouse plant may soon be in developer's hands

 

One of the most visible historic factories in Cleveland may soon be in the hands of a developer that has a proven track record of restoring such buildings.

The former Westinghouse Electric and Manufacturing Co. at 1200 W. 58th St. near Gordon Square in the Detroit-Shoreway neighborhood is best known for its eight-story structure towering over the Westinghouse Curve of the West Shoreway (aka State Route 2) near Edgewater Park. Or, perhaps you recall the Black Widow interrogation scene from the 2012 Avengers movie that was filmed here.

On Jan. 22, a Certificate of Disclosure was filed with the city regarding Sustainable Community Associates' purchase of the 3.62-acre property from Paramount-Breakwater Properties LLC, according to the city's Division of Records. Certificates of Disclosure must be processed by the city prior to a property transfer taking effect. The certificate was processed Jan. 25.

 

MORE:
https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2019/01/old-westinghouse-plant-may-soon-be-in.html

Edited by KJP
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"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" -- Lady Liberty

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In light of this potential project, I remind readers (especially city officials, RTA officials, nearby property owners and others) about my idea to add a station with pull-off lanes for buses on the Cleveland State BRT route. A stop here, especially if the Westinghouse plant adds a variety of mixed uses in its lower-level buildings, should get all-day ridership.

 

Then again, it might be cheaper to create an intersection on the Shoreway with Cass/West 54th, including a roadway through to the expanding Great Lakes Shipyard. Yes, that means eliminating the soap box derby track. That property would make a nice residential development anyway. Add another intersection at West 45th and get rid of those dangerous ramps to/from Herman Avenue. Perhaps RTA, ODOT and the city should undertake an alternatives analysis??

 

clevelandstatebrt-west50thstop-s.jpg

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"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" -- Lady Liberty

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The elongated two-three story structures attached to the taller eight-story building are really unique - any idea on what types of (re)uses would be most appropriate for these, given their unconventional floor plans? Are there similar projects elsewhere that illustrate how former factories like this have been successfully redeveloped in a way that respects their original layouts? I hope the developer finds a way to keep the overall structure intact, given its unique and historic nature.

 

Greentown Labs (largest clean-tech incubator in the country) in Somerville, MA is one comp that comes to mind.

https://www.sta-design.com/clean-tech/

 

Can anyone think of others?

Greentown 1.PNG

Greentown 2.PNG

Greentown 3.PNG

 

Greentown 4.PNG

Edited by ASP1984
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I wish that it could become a factory again.

 

Poor people in Cleveland need these kind of low skill jobs in transit friendly places like this.

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To your point Terdolph - another good comparable is "The Plant" in Chicago, which is a former factory converted into a food-systems incubator. Its a great look at how we can re-use former industrial properties for job-rich economic development, and there's growing traction for / confidence in a lot of the underlying business models that were at one point considered novel but now becoming more mainstream:

 

 

Edited by ASP1984
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On 1/24/2019 at 3:27 PM, KJP said:

 

An indoor farmers market, perhaps? Maybe a food hall?

 

BTW, behind the photo above, I'd add a BRT stop on the Shoreway. This warehouse conversion, plus Edison phase 2 and maybe more, might justify adding a station with pullover lanes for buses (or by adding an intersection here).

 

My impression is that the majority opinion on this forum is that the idea of a new indoor food-hall or farmers market in Cleveland is utter sacrilege bc of the West Side Market, seeing as this building is on the West Side. 

Edited by ASP1984

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In Denver they have “the Source”. That is where Crooked stave has their taproom. There are 13 vendors that also occupy the space. There is a bank branch and many offices for people to rent. Going to their website they have now added a hotel onto the side of it. 

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Been there before - its a great spot!

 

4 minutes ago, audidave said:

In Denver they have “the Source”. That is where Crooked stave has their taproom. There are 13 vendors that also occupy the space. There is a bank branch and many offices for people to rent. Going to their website they have now added a hotel onto the side of it. 

 

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However.... the first floor of the tower is partially below ground on the west side of the building. It has a garage door off West 58th. So it could be used for indoor parking for residents of the tower. Each floor of the tower offers 14,000 square foot floorplates. So maybe set aside 4,000 sf of the ground floor for a lobby/mailroom/elevators. The remaining 10,000 sf is enough space for indoor parking for 50 cars. And, on the north side of the tower, there appears to be enough room for another 60-75 outdoor parking spaces. That might be enough parking for the tower, which I estimate could have about 100 residential units (give or take a few). On-street parking on West 58th (including a few off-street spaces on the east side of the street) were available to employees of Paramount and Westinghouse.

 

The lower level buildings, however, could be partially converted to parking -- especially some of the heavily modernized building just to the west of the tower. Although....that modernized building looks to be about three stories tall (or equivalent) which means it would be tall enough (at least the second and third floors) to have lake views for at least half of the year. I doubt that would be razed or entirely converted to parking.

Edited by KJP
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"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" -- Lady Liberty

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20 hours ago, KJP said:

The lower level buildings, however, could be partially converted to parking --

 

When I worked there, those lower buildings with the peaked roofs were full of heavy machinery - drop forges, foundries, presses, etc. as well as polishing, annealing, and anodizing processes - probably needing a LOT of environmental remediation.

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There's nothing wrong with optimism, as long as you don't get your hopes up.

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On 1/26/2019 at 1:09 PM, KJP said:

In light of this potential project, I remind readers (especially city officials, RTA officials, nearby property owners and others) about my idea to add a station with pull-off lanes for buses on the Cleveland State BRT route. A stop here, especially if the Westinghouse plant adds a variety of mixed uses in its lower-level buildings, should get all-day ridership.

 

Then again, it might be cheaper to create an intersection on the Shoreway with Cass/West 54th, including a roadway through to the expanding Great Lakes Shipyard. Yes, that means eliminating the soap box derby track. That property would make a nice residential development anyway. Add another intersection at West 45th and get rid of those dangerous ramps to/from Herman Avenue. Perhaps RTA, ODOT and the city should undertake an alternatives analysis??

 

clevelandstatebrt-west50thstop-s.jpg

 

I like this sketch up a lot, but I think it was ODOT who dropped the ball on the lack of pedestrian and transit infrastructure during the “conversion”. The rush hour BRT lanes should have continued all the way down the Shoreway. I’m pretty sure RTA was planning on some service along the Shoreway, but the project had a lot of shortcomings. RTA has been doing a bunch of small scale expansions of service (pinecrest, glenwillow, both amazon distribution centers, etc), so it’s really not out of the scope to add a couple stops along the Shoreway.  The only issues I see with these plans are the pull offs, and how difficult it might be to get back into traffic during rush (unless they were given the lanes for partial BRT such as on Clifton). There’s still a ton of potential for this “boulevard”, especially as more and more projects like Westington come to fruition. How much more analysis can we expect after this flop?

Edited by imjustinjk
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RTA's Deputy General Manager for Engineering & Project Management Mike Schipper, who lives in Lakewood, has considered ways of serving these developments and Edgewater Park more effectively. The pull-off lanes are problematic, no doubt. That's why I've since warmed to the idea of intersections (ie: at Cass/West 54th and at West 45th) and raising the speed limit to 45 mph. Brookpark Road is 40-50 mph with intersections near the Fairview Park/North Olmsted line. Bus pull-off lanes may make more sense above the pedestrian tunnel from West 76th because they could be elongations of the existing Edgewater ramps. But I don't know if ODOT would warm up to these. Maybe we could get some community pressure from the CDC and Councilman Zone for an evaluation of these and other ideas?

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"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" -- Lady Liberty

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3 minutes ago, KJP said:

RTA's Deputy General Manager for Engineering & Project Management Mike Schipper, who lives in Lakewood, has considered ways of serving these developments and Edgewater Park more effectively. The pull-off lanes are problematic, no doubt. That's why I've since warmed to the idea of intersections (ie: at Cass/West 54th and at West 45th) and raising the speed limit to 45 mph. Brookpark Road is 40-50 mph with intersections near the Fairview Park/North Olmsted line. Bus pull-off lanes may make more sense above the pedestrian tunnel from West 76th because they could be elongations of the existing Edgewater ramps. But I don't know if ODOT would warm up to these. Maybe we could get some community pressure from the CDC and Councilman Zone for an evaluation of these and other ideas?

 

I think that the stakeholders would participate in pressuring ODOT. I’m just not sure how much they’ll budge after plopping down $100 mil. I love, love, love the idea of service along the Shoreway. It won’t be extremely difficult or expensive to paint BRT lanes. I always had hoped for more pedestrian/cycling infrastructure as well. RTA has already dipped their toes in the water with limited service to edgewater at the W 73rd ramp - which I used last summer a handful of times and it was great. I think that 45th and 54th should both be serviced by the 55. Is there a reason why 54th wasn’t connected to the Shoreway? It’s almost at the same elevation. There wouldn’t need to be a ramp/bridge built and it would be perfect for an intersection, which could help slow traffic down a bit (I like the Shoreway at 35mph). 

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On 1/27/2019 at 2:43 PM, KJP said:

However.... the first floor of the tower is partially below ground on the west side of the building. It has a garage door off West 58th. So it could be used for indoor parking for residents of the tower. Each floor of the tower offers 14,000 square foot floorplates. So maybe set aside 4,000 sf of the ground floor for a lobby/mailroom/elevators. The remaining 10,000 sf is enough space for indoor parking for 50 cars. And, on the north side of the tower, there appears to be enough room for another 60-75 outdoor parking spaces. That might be enough parking for the tower, which I estimate could have about 100 residential units (give or take a few). On-street parking on West 58th (including a few off-street spaces on the east side of the street) were available to employees of Paramount and Westinghouse.

... wow it's like you read my grad school site analysis paper...;-)

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Maybe the space can be utilized as an isolation chamber for the Cleveland City Council. I envision a virtual reality or possibly an augmented reality space where council members can discuss the generation and implementation of new regulations and taxes with virtual citizens and special interest groups. This way they can satisfy their desire for power and influence while simultaneously preventing such enactments from actually happening, thereby solving Cleveland's #1 issue which is population stagnation and loss. I'm hoping this can all be done in a green and sustainable way, naturally. 

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Another new Crain's article......

 

Auction set for contents of namesake for Shoreway's Westinghouse curve

https://www.crainscleveland.com/stan-bullard-blog/auction-set-contents-namesake-shoreways-westinghouse-curve


"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" -- Lady Liberty

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From that article:

 

However, the bulk of the 3-acre site is covered primarily with a single-story building.

"You can only accommodate so much parking. What do you do with the rest of it?," asked Rosen, who said he is not related to the ownership of the Rosen-Barton firm.

 

I really really hope they find a way to keep the extremely awesome low rise portion of the existing complex.

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Sniffles....😭

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"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" -- Lady Liberty

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I'm hearing that this project is in trouble. 

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"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" -- Lady Liberty

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That's ok. I am sure something appropriate will come along sooner rather than later
#TooOptimisticForMyOwnGood

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5 hours ago, KJP said:

I'm hearing that this project is in trouble. 

Environmental cleanup problems?  I could easily believe that.

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There's nothing wrong with optimism, as long as you don't get your hopes up.

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34 minutes ago, Dougal said:

Environmental cleanup problems?  I could easily believe that.

Nooo. They'd never allow a huge company to leave a property in a dangerous condition. /s

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Westinghouse5.jpg

 

FRIDAY, AUGUST 9, 2019

Westinghouse, Blanket Mills conversions face adversity

 

Many of us don't get to see the behind-the-scenes activity that developers go through in renovating old buildings. We get to see the work being done on the outside of buildings and, if we peer through the windows, we can see the construction work being done inside.

But we don't see the arduous environmental analyses, the endless paperwork, the frequent meetings and, of course, the stumbles. If we did, many of us would probably have no desire to become a real estate developer -- if not for the joy of seeing the finished product. And if he or she is lucky, a developer will deliver a finished product more than half of the times he or she tries.

So the situations involving the residential conversions of the Westinghouse Electric and Manufacturing Co., 1200 W. 58th St., as well as the Northern Ohio Blanket Mills, 3160 W. 33rd St., offer some similarities. But they are at different stages of stumbling, er, development.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2019/08/westinghouse-blanket-mills-conversions.html

Edited by KJP

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" -- Lady Liberty

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don't freak out (i know many of you will)... with site remediation, doesn't demolishing the whole non-tower complex and removing however many feet of soil they need, make a whole lot more sense? then they would have a blank canvas to build on. based on everything we know today (and likely will learn in the next few decades), i would not live on any manufacturing site without significant remediation.

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2 hours ago, jfristik said:

... with site remediation, doesn't demolishing the whole non-tower complex and removing however many feet of soil they need, make a whole lot more sense?

 

Despite the almost flimsy appearance of the lower portions of the complex, the place is massively constructed, once housing multiple foundry, hammer-forge,  and drop-forge operations. I can see how demolishing-and-removing could easily be a daunting project for a residential builder.


There's nothing wrong with optimism, as long as you don't get your hopes up.

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Interesting that finding a use for that lower level space is the issue. I could see an indoor pool being a huge selling point for the project and a good use of that low level space at Westinghouse. While digging into the contaminated soil would be a non-started on that, I could see raising the area for the pool 5-6 feet, thus having it built above the soil. I would imagine the ceilings in that area are more than high enough to do that and still have ample space above. Could put in some skylights, or even a retractable roof for the summer time (likely getting very expensive with that though). 

 

*Edit - Sorry, didn't notice this was the Clark-Metro thread when I posted this response. Can a mod move it to the Westinghouse thread, please?

Edited by PoshSteve
Wrong Thread

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It is the case that we are not moving forward.    It not for a specific reason or anything speculated above  -- it is  just as simple as we hard time matching up our sources and uses.  It is an awesome set of buildings and we hope a catalytic  project emerges.

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Thanks for the clarification, @misterjoshr. I will post a new article.

 

EDIT -- here it is......

 

Edison-Westinghouse2015.jpg

 

MONDAY, AUGUST 12, 2019

It's official: Westinghouse redevelopment fizzles

 

A principal of the real estate development firm that was pursuing renovation and redevelopment of the Westinghouse Electric and Manufacturing Co., 1200 W. 58th St., confirmed that the firm has decided not to go forward with the project.

NEOtrans broke the news about the renovation in January, and it again broke news on Aug. 9 that the project to convert the 303,000-square-foot vacant industrial complex into residential, parking and perhaps other uses might not happen.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2019/08/its-official-westinghouse-redevelopment.html

Edited by KJP

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" -- Lady Liberty

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