Toxic Masculinity

[Oxford19 26]

Pretty sure it was this toxic masculinity video that prompted the NFL to pursue social work; 'member Ray Rice 2014? 

 

 

[DarkandStormy 734]

https://ph.news.yahoo.com/barack-obama-talks-toxic-masculinity-023549457.html?guccounter=1

 

Pretty interesting article on a recent discussion with Barack Obama and Steph Curry.  Obama even touches on themes in rap and hip-hop (which should please everyone here who has posted BUT WHAT ABOUT RAP in this thread).  I'm sure there was more discussed, but the article highlights these main things:

 

-Being a man = being a good human being, being responsible, working hard, being kind, respectful, compassionate

-If you are confident, you don't have to display that by putting others down - a better way to do that is to lift others up.

-A lot of the violence and pain come from men seeking respect.  A lot of cultural influences, like hip-hop and rap, are centered on having more than others (even if not true), therefore I can disrespect you - but really it's revealing your own insecurities

-Obama notes how different it is when groups of women get together vs. men - women are much more open and comfortable talking about what's going on with their lives, feelings, etc.

[Ram23 54]

5 hours ago, DarkandStormy said:

-Obama notes how different it is when groups of women get together vs. men - women are much more open and comfortable talking about what's going on with their lives, feelings, etc. 

 

On the flip side, two men can sit together, watch a 3+ hour football game, and say virtually nothing the entire time without wondering if the other guy is mad at them.

 

Neither of these attributes have anything to do with toxicity, of course.

[E Rocc 40]

On 2/11/2019 at 3:15 AM, jmecklenborg said:

What is up with these guys on Facebook, usually aged 20 to maybe 30, making some bold but vague declaration about some character in their world who was making women "feel unsafe"? 

 

The whole thing is the opposite of a spoiled loser kicking the ball into the woods so he can't "lose".  Instead, a bomb is dropped online if you don't 100% align yourself with the self-declared moral hero, you're as bad as the unsafer.  

 

Look at me everybody -- I DON'T MAKE WOMEN FEEL UNSAFE AND I CALL OUT THOSE WHO DO ON FACEBOOK!!!  I'm a SAFER, NOT AN UNSAFER! 

 

It's called "white knighting" and it is almost always a (rather weak) ploy to gain female attention.   

[E Rocc 40]

One thing to consider:   Kareem Hunt did not get in any real trouble at all for hitting two guys.  He shoved (once) and kicked at a woman who had been physically and verbally aggressive with him and he got in severe trouble.

 

Double standard?   Yes.   Justified one?   Debatable, but probably.    I would say yes, but I'm firmly of the view that most of what is called "toxic masculinity" isn't toxic at all.

 

Does dramatically changing the definition of masculinity threaten this double standard.

[freefourur 535]

9 minutes ago, E Rocc said:

 

It's called "white knighting" and it is almost always a (rather weak) ploy to gain female attention.   

This is the think of a person that doesn't think that someone can genuinely care. White knighting is misused now just like virtue signaling.  

[X 210]

I think the term on the left is to say that a male is engaging in "performative feminism".

[327 131]

13 hours ago, E Rocc said:

 

It's called "white knighting" and it is almost always a (rather weak) ploy to gain female attention.   

 

Instead of supporting women, this approach makes them all sound like panicked mice.  Much of feminism's current wave seems to do that.  In some venues, you can't even discuss unpleasantry without trigger warnings, as if a few words are enough to liquefy someone's poor little weak little brain.  It's like "the vapors" all over again-- and that was a tool to subjugate women, not to liberate them.

[freefourur 535]

7 minutes ago, 327 said:

 

Instead of supporting women, this approach makes them all sound like panicked mice.  Much of feminism's current wave seems to do that.  In some venues, you can't even discuss unpleasantry without trigger warnings, as if a few words are enough to liquefy someone's poor little weak little brain.  It's like "the vapors" all over again-- and that was a tool to subjugate women, not to liberate them.

I really feel like this is trying to take a rare situation and then use a broad brush.  

[E Rocc 40]

On 2/21/2019 at 9:53 AM, 327 said:

 

Instead of supporting women, this approach makes them all sound like panicked mice.  Much of feminism's current wave seems to do that.  In some venues, you can't even discuss unpleasantry without trigger warnings, as if a few words are enough to liquefy someone's poor little weak little brain.  It's like "the vapors" all over again-- and that was a tool to subjugate women, not to liberate them.

 

That's an unfortunate trend these days, to use various tactics to prevent certain topics from being discussed, or certain opinions from being voiced.

 

IMO, it's dangerous.    If you want to convince people of something, you need to know where they are coming from.   Attempts to "shame" Trump supporters almost certainly backfired in 2016, possibly enough to elect him.