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Doesn't surprise me.  January and February are absolutely awful months in the Downtown restaurant/bar world, so do anything you can do to bring people in!

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Honestly parking is the biggest issue with FEB whether it's Jan or July. Despite all the hopes and dreams, people simply do not want to take public transit to the restaurants and have so so many options in other places where parking is easy and free. Keep it free year round and offer more parking in more locations. 

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18 minutes ago, westlake10 said:

Honestly parking is the biggest issue with FEB whether it's Jan or July. Despite all the hopes and dreams, people simply do not want to take public transit to the restaurants and have so so many options in other places where parking is easy and free. Keep it free year round and offer more parking in more locations. 

 

The goal of FEB is to make money, not to be convenient to every possible customer. Sometimes those two things are the same, but sometimes, once you take into account the cost of providing parking and opportunity cost of not charging for it, they aren't.  The current pattern of pricing parking based on seasonal demand makes a lot of sense to me. A pity the city does't do the same with its meters.

Edited by StapHanger

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Agree 100% that parking charge is hurting businesses. Cleveland suburbanites are not accustomed to paying to park to eat dinner.  So many other nearby options (Tremont, Ohio City, Lakewood, etc) where you can use that money for an extra drink or dessert.  🍸

Edited by outjet

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Westlake10, the screen name says it all.  Suburban mentality.  More parking.  People simply DO want to ride public transit if it is made into a true transit system.  Cleveland's system needs a lot of work (image and service) and hopefully in the near future it will get forward thinking leadership.  Many people look at Cleveland RTA as a social service rather than a public transit system (in comparison to CTA, MTA and other services)  but the potential is there.  Expand service, put rail into populated areas that would use it (Lakewood, RR, Old Brooklyn, Parma, Berea, Euclid and Beachwood to name a few places).  Add easier to use ticket kiosks (like NYC) ,have people actually working the booths and get RTA police out their cars and onto the trains once in a while...these things would do a lot for image and service.  Would you use public transit then?  More parking does nothing for an urban area, walkability does.  FEB needs density NOT a sea of parking.  Sorry for my disjointed rant.

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13 minutes ago, cfdwarrior said:

Westlake10, the screen name says it all.  Suburban mentality.  More parking.  People simply DO want to ride public transit if it is made into a true transit system.  Cleveland's system needs a lot of work (image and service) and hopefully in the near future it will get forward thinking leadership.  Many people look at Cleveland RTA as a social service rather than a public transit system (in comparison to CTA, MTA and other services)  but the potential is there.  Expand service, put rail into populated areas that would use it (Lakewood, RR, Old Brooklyn, Parma, Berea, Euclid and Beachwood to name a few places).  Add easier to use ticket kiosks (like NYC) ,have people actually working the booths and get RTA police out their cars and onto the trains once in a while...these things would do a lot for image and service.  Would you use public transit then?  More parking does nothing for an urban area, walkability does.  FEB needs density NOT a sea of parking.  Sorry for my disjointed rant.

 

Catch 22 is that public transit to FEB will never be a viable option until driving or ride-sharing become untenable. 

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The layout of the streets is really dumb and cause for much of the gridlock. But even in the heyday of the 90's it's been a zoo down there. I'm not sure bad traffic and costly parking had much impact if any on the downfall.  

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42 minutes ago, surfohio said:

The layout of the streets is really dumb and cause for much of the gridlock. 

 

First I've heard complaints of gridlock.   My office is in FEB and I haven't noticed the traffic problem here yet.  

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1 hour ago, Clefan98 said:

^ Most of the gridlock occurs when the bars let out. I doubt you're in the office at that time, but maybe?

 

Depending on what's going on in the area, it also occasionally happens when heading down to the bars on a Fri / Sat night.

 

But that being said, we've always found parking down in the general area.  It's just sometimes a slow go getting down there.

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20 hours ago, westlake10 said:

Honestly parking is the biggest issue with FEB whether it's Jan or July. Despite all the hopes and dreams, people simply do not want to take public transit to the restaurants and have so so many options in other places where parking is easy and free. Keep it free year round and offer more parking in more locations. 

 

At the most basic level, do you think that these plots of lands don’t cost to operate? The maintenance, property taxes, etc. are just magically covered? This isn’t a suburban strip mall. 

https://www.vox.com/2014/6/27/5849280/why-free-parking-is-bad-for-everyone

 

 

 

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22 hours ago, cfdwarrior said:

Westlake10, the screen name says it all.  Suburban mentality.  More parking.  People simply DO want to ride public transit if it is made into a true transit system.  Cleveland's system needs a lot of work (image and service) and hopefully in the near future it will get forward thinking leadership.  Many people look at Cleveland RTA as a social service rather than a public transit system (in comparison to CTA, MTA and other services)  but the potential is there.  Expand service, put rail into populated areas that would use it (Lakewood, RR, Old Brooklyn, Parma, Berea, Euclid and Beachwood to name a few places).  Add easier to use ticket kiosks (like NYC) ,have people actually working the booths and get RTA police out their cars and onto the trains once in a while...these things would do a lot for image and service.  Would you use public transit then?  More parking does nothing for an urban area, walkability does.  FEB needs density NOT a sea of parking.  Sorry for my disjointed rant.

 

The "social service" view of RTA is a direct result of the early planning of the system, one size fits all with absolutely no accommodation of the preferences of "fat cats".   That was Norman Krumholtz's mindset and he sold it to the powers that be even after he was no longer one of them.

 

The majority of the people in this area are no longer transit minded, assuming they ever were.    If that ever happens, it will start with the commuting process.  Saying people *will* ride a "true" transit system is similar to "socialism has never been tried".    No system can appeal to everyone, and GCRTA is largely focused on those without other options.   

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19 hours ago, outjet said:

 

First I've heard complaints of gridlock.   My office is in FEB and I haven't noticed the traffic problem here yet.  

 

My horror story is waiting in a Lyft for 42 minutes near the roundabout - It took me 51 minutes to get from Beerhead to Franklin and W. 29th last spring around 12:30am

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On busy nights the FEB can become a bit of a black hole for rideshare drivers.  I don't know how you improve access in/out of there, though.  The waterfront line requires a transfer from/to just about anywhere and running busses down there would be a mess.  One thing they should do is diversify the uses, so it isn't just several bars all letting out at the same time.

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I think they also don't allow on-street parking in the area after midnight.  Which in some respects seems like a good idea to keep traffic flowing.  But it's also a hassle to head down there at 9pm/10pm, park on the street and then have to remember to go out and move your car somewhere else before midnight and then head back to wherever you were for another hour or so.

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9 hours ago, Whipjacka said:

the trains don't run till the bars close.  transit isn't a real option right now.

I just put in to goog maps the fairly modest proposal of deciding on heading home from Punch Bowl at 12:15 am; the instructions involve walking to public square, waiting until the 51 bus comes st 12:49, and getting home at 1:52 am. 

Or an uber for 20 bucks and about 30 min, any time you want to order it. 

 

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4 hours ago, dar124 said:

I think they also don't allow on-street parking in the area after midnight.  Which in some respects seems like a good idea to keep traffic flowing.  But it's also a hassle to head down there at 9pm/10pm, park on the street and then have to remember to go out and move your car somewhere else before midnight and then head back to wherever you were for another hour or so.

The weekend on-street parking policy, which was only instituted last year, basically forces anyone in the area without a monthly garage pass to park in a paid surface lot.  I wouldn't be surprised if the policy came directly from the surface lot operators.    

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^This is one of the most g@d damn frustrating things I've dealt with as of late. Family was dispersed throughout the near west side and downtown and decided to meet for brunch at Yours Truly on Euclid Avenue. On a desolate winter Sunday afternoon there is no on street parking allowed from W3rd to East 14th Street. We abandoned the idea and went back to Shaker. If I were any of these restaurants or retail stores (of the ones that have managed to exist)  I would be super pissed about this. Traffic calming at all expense. Where should this venom be directed? Councilman? Engineering Department?... 

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Wait, was there a change to downtown parking policy overall? I assumed the earlier comments were about something specific to the FEB area, where the late night congestion occurs.

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Yeah...the parking restrictions are limited to Friday and Saturday nights, and only in the Warehouse District/FEB. 

 

I park on 12th, 13th, Chester and Walnut frequently on the weekend.

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1 hour ago, StapHanger said:

Wait, was there a change to downtown parking policy overall? I assumed the earlier comments were about something specific to the FEB area, where the late night congestion occurs.

Overnight (post-midnight or even earlier in some places) meter parking is no longer allowed throughout much of downtown on the weekends.  Additionally, if there is any kind of event at the Q or Progressive Field, large swathes will be closed at random times during the day as well.  

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1 hour ago, Enginerd said:

Yeah...the parking restrictions are limited to Friday and Saturday nights, and only in the Warehouse District/FEB. 

 

I park on 12th, 13th, Chester and Walnut frequently on the weekend.

 

The issue I had and was referring to was in the FEB on Fri / Sat nights.

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7 hours ago, w28th said:

^This is one of the most g@d damn frustrating things I've dealt with as of late. Family was dispersed throughout the near west side and downtown and decided to meet for brunch at Yours Truly on Euclid Avenue. On a desolate winter Sunday afternoon there is no on street parking allowed from W3rd to East 14th Street. We abandoned the idea and went back to Shaker. If I were any of these restaurants or retail stores (of the ones that have managed to exist)  I would be super pissed about this. Traffic calming at all expense. Where should this venom be directed? Councilman? Engineering Department?... 

 

Eliminating street parking isn't for traffic calming.  Quite the opposite, it's for moving cars in and out of Downtown faster, usually related to events.

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9 hours ago, X said:

 

Eliminating street parking isn't for traffic calming.  Quite the opposite, it's for moving cars in and out of Downtown faster, usually related to events.

I thought the city put in print that it was to free up room for emergency vehicles just in case they are needed. 

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12 minutes ago, MyPhoneDead said:

I thought the city put in print that it was to free up room for emergency vehicles just in case they are needed. 

 

That is their official excuse, which isn't a good one, imho.

 

Those people that are more cynical believe that since parking lot owners making significant contributions to city council campaigns, council people push for on-street parking bans during special events and weekends, thus pushing everyone into parking lots. 

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traffic/parking/accessibility is always going to be an issue at FEB.  It's a peninsula.  W9th is not enough to handle it and River Road isn't much help either. 

 

The best/easiest option would be to rework Main Avenue as a full east/west street all the way back into the Warehouse district where it could let traffic connect to W3rd. 

 

There was discussion years ago that Fairmount was trying to create an artery though "the pit" parking lot all the way back to W. 3rd but it was a huge project.  If done right thought, blowing up those lots and creating a new street with develop-able land could be worth some study.

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The 702,000 citizens and 4.5+ million metropolitan residents in Washington, DC have no such parking bans on our similarly sized streets, and emergency-responders get where they are needed just fine.  This is an example of Cleveland style hoo-hah that is apparent for all to see, visitors and residents alike. 
People actually leave (me) over silly processes and programs like this that get in the way of sensible/comfortable living.

Edited by ExPatClevGuy
Typos
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44 minutes ago, ExPatClevGuy said:

The 702,000 citizens and 4.5 million metropolitan residents in Washington, DC have no such parking bans on our similarly sized streets, and emergency-responders get where they are needed just fine.  Cleveland style hoo-hah that is apparent for all to see visitors and residents alike.  People actually leave (me) over silly processes and programs that get in the way of a sensible comfortable living.

 

Actually, over 6 million now, I believe.

 

But yes, I agree, stupid things like this are hard to explain away to Cleveland critics and also work to the detriment of those of us who live here.  Sometimes I wonder if the city's decision makers have ever been to any of the large, well-functioning cities on the east coast.

Edited by jam40jeff
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This is pretty rich topic for discussion, and I didn't want to see the stuff on the FEB vaporized, so seemed like a good time for a new thread.

 

I'm utterly depressed by the on-street parking policy people are describing for downtown Cleveland. I understand removing spaces for things like bike lanes or street calming, but the idea that parking needs to be banned to move cars faster in a downtown with so little congestion is asinine. 

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But there are also restrictions on Euclid near Playhouse Square too -- unrelated to the nearby construction projects. I tagged local media on tweets regarding this subject. It's worth a more public airing than this forum.

 

But I'm glad we have this thread to keep the FEB thread clean.


In 1976, the City of Cleveland issued NINE building permits. NINE. When we start to feel down about the progress of development here vs. other cities, remember how lifeless Cleveland was and how far it's come.

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On-street parking is also banned on all streets around Gateway when there is an event at the Q or Progressive Field. 

 

I just roughly drew this up from memory, but these are approximately all the streets that don't allow street parking during such events. I may be missing a few.

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Edited by TPH2

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Browns Stadium downtown was obviously dumb, but I'm increasingly convinced Progressive Field should never have been build downtown. The idea of making better use of common parking facilities made intuitive of sense, but these peak crowd generators are huge disamenities and the spin-off development has been meager and one dimensional.  And anyway, the public took a bath on the Gateway parking facilities, so even that part didn't quit work out.


As long as the city is convinced it has to cater to drivers attending the Special Events Party Zones downtown, we're kind of stuck with a cruddy streetscape, incomplete streets, and disruption for drivers trying to do anything else downtown.  Not great.

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