Jump to content
KJP

Cleveland: Ohio City: Church+State (West 29th & Detroit Ave)

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, Htsguy said:

Is Bridgeworks the new project on the former Cuyahoga County Engineers property?  If yes, in a Crain's article on Michael Panzica leaving Hemingway and starting his own development firm it is suggested that the building here will be six stories or less.

No he didn't, he suggested it would be a "midrise". 


The article states "Panzica wouldn't discuss its height other than characterizing it as midrise, which means under six stories". 
 

It was the Crain's writer who interprets it as being under 6 stories but his definition of midrise isn't correct. 

Edited by Clefan98
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Clefan98 said:

No he didn't, he suggested it would be a "midrise". 


The article states "Panzica wouldn't discuss its height other than characterizing it as midrise, which means under six stories". 
 

It was the Crain's writer who interprets it as being under 6 stories but his definition of midrise isn't correct. 

I didn't say that Michael Panzica stated this.  I said the "article" SUGGESTED that it would be under six stories.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Klingaling87 said:

^right. I can tell you first hand that it’ll be no less than 8 stories at this time. 

Hopefully taller than 8 stories.  This is an ideal location for great skyline views to the east and it would be a shame to minimize that potential.  Of course, as always,  $$$ is a factor.

  • Like 3
  • Love 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, Htsguy said:

I didn't say that Michael Panzica stated this.  I said the "article" SUGGESTED that it would be under six stories.

 
My bad - misread it the first time around.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I drove past this morning, and I believe they added another floor in the last 48 hours - I think that means two floors remaining. 

 

The main tower is already SUBSTANTIAL and creates quite the impact on the view of Ohio City from the shoreway

  • Like 8
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Below are photos I took today, shortly before they jumped the crane -- probably for the last time. The 10th floor has been poured on State with the 11th floor pour coming in a couple of weeks. I'll have an article on Church+State with many more photos later this week. Thanks to Mike Panzica and Graham Veysey for the information and the tour!

 

Church-State-tour-021120-13s.jpg

 

Church-State-tour-021120-19s.jpg

Edited by KJP
  • Like 21
  • Love 1
  • Thanks 2

"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, KJP said:

Below are photos I took today, shortly before they jumped the crane -- probably for the last time. The 10th floor has been poured on State with the 11th floor pour coming in a couple of weeks. I'll have an article on Church+State with many more photos later this week. Thanks to Mike Panzica and Graham Veysey for the information and the tour!

 

Church-State-tour-021120-13s.jpg

 

Church-State-tour-021120-19s.jpg

 

Love the view of the Veterans Memorial Bridge "floating" from this vantage point. The density of downtown reminds me of the feeling going over the Main Avenue Viaduct into downtown from the west along the Shoreway or the below view along the Buffalo Skyway

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.8748311,-78.8781987,3a,75y,357.43h,84.81t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLPWFffVkQDIeqNPKBxZCkg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Church-State-tour-021120-20.jpg

 

FRIDAY, FEBRUARY 14, 2020

Ohio City's Church+State rising to be a Hingetown hub

 

After a first few minutes of talking with Graham Veysey, it's apparent that he appreciates cities and their primary purpose of causing personal interaction. In his businesses and neighborhood initiatives focused on the Hingetown section of Ohio City, he has attempted to spur more and different ways for people to interact.

Promoting opportunities for interaction abound in the design and construction of his latest and largest real estate development: Church + State.

The $60 million real estate investment is a partnership among Grammar Properties, Hemingway Development of Cleveland, Cedar Street Development of Chicago and Turner Construction. It is located near the intersection of Church Avenue and West 29th Street. West 29th was State Street before 1906 when Cleveland's north-south streets were given numerical names. Grammar Properties is a partnership of its own, between Veysey and his architect wife Marika Shioiri-Clark.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2020/02/ohio-citys-churchstate-rising-to-be.html

  • Like 20
  • Thanks 2

"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The sidewalks on Detroit need to be widened.  In fact, with all the new construction the street needs a total new rebuild with a better street scape.

  • Like 15
  • Love 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know this picture looks like it was taken by a potato, and won’t do my point justice. But I snapped it earlier today because this project creates such an impression of density when looking west. 

395F4DD1-71AC-4BE1-AD47-E1802AD36D81.jpeg

  • Like 12
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, KJP said:

Church-State-tour-021120-20.jpg

 

FRIDAY, FEBRUARY 14, 2020

Ohio City's Church+State rising to be a Hingetown hub

 

After a first few minutes of talking with Graham Veysey, it's apparent that he appreciates cities and their primary purpose of causing personal interaction. In his businesses and neighborhood initiatives focused on the Hingetown section of Ohio City, he has attempted to spur more and different ways for people to interact.

Promoting opportunities for interaction abound in the design and construction of his latest and largest real estate development: Church + State.

The $60 million real estate investment is a partnership among Grammar Properties, Hemingway Development of Cleveland, Cedar Street Development of Chicago and Turner Construction. It is located near the intersection of Church Avenue and West 29th Street. West 29th was State Street before 1906 when Cleveland's north-south streets were given numerical names. Grammar Properties is a partnership of its own, between Veysey and his architect wife Marika Shioiri-Clark.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2020/02/ohio-citys-churchstate-rising-to-be.html

I know he may not have been at liberty to share but was there any "off-the-record" mention of potential retailers, restaurants, etc. that are interested in this building?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, BJBaes said:

I know he may not have been at liberty to share but was there any "off-the-record" mention of potential retailers, restaurants, etc. that are interested in this building?

 

I asked him but he said he couldn't give me an answer yet.

  • Like 2

"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had no idea there were so many aspects of public spaces for the project. This is very exciting beyond the wonderful street presence and expansion of the neighborhood's revitalization and taller density westward. Thank you for such an informative article, @KJP.

  • Like 5
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The spaces that will be available for public access as well as how it incorporates many organizations from the surrounding area are very cool. It seems like it will add much more to the neighborhood than additional residential units.   Thanks for the article!

Edited by OC_Charlie
  • Like 5
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, metrocity said:

@KJP Did I tell you I found out that this was the project that FLATS Chicago is involved with? 

 

No. Refresh my memory, please. 


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, KJP said:

 

No. Refresh my memory, please. 

We had a conversation on a thread once. But I can't find the thread. I had been to an event in Chicago where Flats Chicago said they were venturing out of Chicago with their first project in another city, and it was Cleveland. They were known as Cedar Street too.  The company website is https://www.cedarst.com/

 

Website looks to be under some changes. The one original guy from Flats Chicago died and he was on a Bravo reality show called 100 days of summer. 

 

 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Graham caught a lot of sh*t from people when he first started developing the Hingetown concept. But he has really doubled down on his investment in the neighborhood. When it all shakes out, the neighborhood would not have been nearly as vibrant without the their efforts to make it more than just a property. 

  • Like 10

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, KJP said:

FRIDAY, FEBRUARY 14, 2020

Ohio City's Church+State rising to be a Hingetown hub

 

After a first few minutes of talking with Graham Veysey, it's apparent that he appreciates cities and their primary purpose of causing personal interaction. In his businesses and neighborhood initiatives focused on the Hingetown section of Ohio City, he has attempted to spur more and different ways for people to interact.

Promoting opportunities for interaction abound in the design and construction of his latest and largest real estate development: Church + State.

The $60 million real estate investment is a partnership among Grammar Properties, Hemingway Development of Cleveland, Cedar Street Development of Chicago and Turner Construction. It is located near the intersection of Church Avenue and West 29th Street. West 29th was State Street before 1906 when Cleveland's north-south streets were given numerical names. Grammar Properties is a partnership of its own, between Veysey and his architect wife Marika Shioiri-Clark.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2020/02/ohio-citys-churchstate-rising-to-be.html

 

13 minutes ago, math said:

Graham caught a lot of sh*t from people when he first started developing the Hingetown concept. But he has really doubled down on his investment in the neighborhood. When it all shakes out, the neighborhood would not have been nearly as vibrant without the their efforts to make it more than just a property. 

 

Graham and Marika are doing exactly what I’d like to think I would do if I had the money to do it - building up a proper urban neighborhood to live in by investing in Cleveland. Good for them. And if you two are reading these comments - thank you!

 

Now let’s try to convince them or someone with similar mentality and means to redevelop any RTA Red, Blue, or Green line parking lot into a mixed use property. 

  • Like 12
  • Love 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They're putting up the walls for the 11th and final floor today.

  • Like 6

"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I realized a while ago that from my perch on the 26th floor of 1111 Superior, I can see this project ... and have been meaning to take a picture ever since. Finally did this morning, although it's the tiniest bit hazy. The yellow insulation really stands out to the naked eye, more than appears so from this pic!

 

IMG_6251.thumb.jpg.6b0350aa43721c8ccd6e1051e9e7093a.jpg

  • Like 12

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, MyPhoneDead said:

I'm gonna miss the yellow 😂.

 

Don't worry. There's always something under construction in/near Hingetown. Next up: Bridgeworks.

  • Like 12

"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/15/2020 at 9:00 AM, Boomerang_Brian said:

 

 

Graham and Marika are doing exactly what I’d like to think I would do if I had the money to do it - building up a proper urban neighborhood to live in by investing in Cleveland. Good for them. And if you two are reading these comments - thank you!

 

Now let’s try to convince them or someone with similar mentality and means to redevelop any RTA Red, Blue, or Green line parking lot into a mixed use property. 

100%. Marika and Graham are truly heroes here. 

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/15/2020 at 9:00 AM, Boomerang_Brian said:

 

 

Graham and Marika are doing exactly what I’d like to think I would do if I had the money to do it - building up a proper urban neighborhood to live in by investing in Cleveland. Good for them. And if you two are reading these comments - thank you!

 

Now let’s try to convince them or someone with similar mentality and means to redevelop any RTA Red, Blue, or Green line parking lot into a mixed use property. 

 

12 minutes ago, misterjoshr said:

100%. Marika and Graham are truly heroes here. 

 

And here we have the pot calling the kettle black... in a good way.  Keep up the good work in your neighborhoods too, @misterjoshr!

 

  • Like 2
  • Love 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, freefourur said:

158 residential units, $55 million

10K sf retail/commercial

wow.  Hard to see how that deal pencils out.  Even subtracting the retail space, you're around $300k per unit....  rents looking to be close to $2.40/sf???

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There was a really cool article about it less than two weeks ago 😉 

Church-State-tour-021120-2.jpg

  • Like 7
  • Haha 1

"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This might help the penciling...

 

From Ken's article:

 

"Panzica also points out that Church + State has received the first U.S. Housing & Urban Development loan for new construction in Cleveland going back as far as he could find. It's a $43 million, 40-year loan at a below-market interest rate".

 

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2020/02/ohio-citys-churchstate-rising-to-be.html

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, gottaplan said:

wow.  Hard to see how that deal pencils out.  Even subtracting the retail space, you're around $300k per unit....  rents looking to be close to $2.40/sf???

They have a favorable HUD loan with a 40 year term. And I think rents are around the amount you stated. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, freefourur said:

158 residential units, $55 million

10K sf retail/commercial

Construction cost is close to $47M

Edited by Klingaling87

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can see it from downtown pretty well from the street. Here's a view from Gateway Garage.

IMG_20200224_153556514_HDR.jpg

  • Like 9

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I’ve been touring some apartments recently and this is the view from the Bingham’s roofdeck !

 

Church + State really adds some crazy density and vertical presence to Ohio City, I love it.

07C42F39-F241-4649-8CAF-EE5A0736446C.jpeg

8F487F76-8DF0-4737-9103-291C34047194.jpeg

  • Like 13
  • Love 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, urbanetics_ said:

Church + State really adds some crazy density and vertical presence to Ohio City, I love it.

 

It really does, I love it too!!  I'm hoping for many more like it, and larger, in the areas nearby.  Possibly 20-story or so buildings on the lots between Lorain and Detroit on W.25th.

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, mrclifton88 said:

Gosh those streetlights are ugly... time for a streetscape improvement all the way across the bridge.

Won't those get replaced when the new LED's go in?

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Makes me want to see a BRT down this stretch of Detroit. Is that completely crazy or is there room to do so? Let's beef up that street presence here any way we can!

 

This stretch of road is beginning to look like a true hub and destination.

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, ASP1984 said:

Makes me want to see a BRT down this stretch of Detroit. Is that completely crazy or is there room to do so? Let's beef up that street presence here any way we can!

 

This stretch of road is beginning to look like a true hub and destination.

 

I often wonder if Ohio City has the means to do a sort of resident trolley, that literally just loops from Detroit/50th to Detroit/29th to Detroit/25th to 25th/Bridge to 25th/Lorain to Lorain/41st to Lorain/50th back to 50th/Detroit. 

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, MyPhoneDead said:

Won't those get replaced when the new LED's go in?

 

The lights get replaced, the poles don't. At least that's how they did it in Old Brooklyn.

 

Also, just getting it out there there's a cool web application to track the progress of the conversion: https://portal.cdmsmithgis.com/portal/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=c2594ce94b1646fa887845679bb1361d

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   1 member

×
×
  • Create New...