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Cleveland: Downtown: City Club Apartments

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I understand the need/want for something interesting and different, but it should still be quality design is all I’m saying 😓 The ideas are there, the execution is just very lacking. I haven’t found a single person in architecture/urban design who hasn’t found it borderline offensive thus far. Cleveland deserves quality, especially in this prime and influential location. Not some half-assed mishmash of design ideas haphazardly thrown onto a building facade. It’s not contemporary whatsoever. It’s just a mess. Messy is not equal to iconic or contemporary.

 

I'm sorry for being a negative nancy but just...like...dude. It is not good.

Edited by MayDay
Let’s refrain from profanity.
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13 minutes ago, tagalong said:

I understand the need/want for something interesting and different, but it should still be quality design is all I’m saying 😓 The ideas are there, the execution is just very lacking. I haven’t found a single person in architecture/urban design who hasn’t found it borderline offensive thus far. Cleveland deserves quality, especially in this prime and influential location. Not some half-assed mishmash of design ideas haphazardly thrown onto a building facade. It’s not contemporary whatsoever. It’s just a mess. Messy is not equal to iconic or contemporary.

 

I'm sorry for being a negative nancy but just...like...goddamn dude. It is not good.

that's ok...  you're more than welcome to have your own opinion...  like art, I'm sure there are artist that you do not like...  if they say your opinion is wrong because you're not an artist, you still know what you like....   so do us of the opinion who say....  more of that please....

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3 minutes ago, lockdog said:

that's ok...  you're more than welcome to have your own opinion...  like art, I'm sure there are artist that you do not like...  if they say your opinion is wrong because you're not an artist, you still know what you like....   so do us of the opinion who say....  more of that please....

You’re right. I’m just having trouble figuring out what’s to like about it other than it being “different.” I hope something cool gets built there that people like nonetheless. If this is what the majority of people like then, I hope it happens.

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Gaudi's architecture is already iconic.

 

I was referring to the City Club Apartments in Cleveland. The design will certainly establish its own unique presence on Euclid Avenue.

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20 minutes ago, Frmr CLEder said:

Gaudi's architecture is already iconic.

 

I was referring to the City Club Apartments in Cleveland. The design will certainly establish its own unique presence on Euclid Avenue.

I agree, I just want the city club apartments to be a more attractive unique presence 😅 I wouldn’t equate the current city club apartments’ design to gaudi’s architectural prowess, though I see where you’re going with it. They are both certainly distinct.

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1 hour ago, tagalong said:

I understand the need/want for something interesting and different, but it should still be quality design is all I’m saying 😓 The ideas are there, the execution is just very lacking. I haven’t found a single person in architecture/urban design who hasn’t found it borderline offensive thus far. Cleveland deserves quality, especially in this prime and influential location. Not some half-assed mishmash of design ideas haphazardly thrown onto a building facade. It’s not contemporary whatsoever. It’s just a mess. Messy is not equal to iconic or contemporary.

 

I'm sorry for being a negative nancy but just...like...goddamn dude. It is not good.

I have to say, I tend to agree.  It's kind of a hot mess, and looks like it belongs in Vegas or Miami Beach.  I'm all for mixing it up and inserting contemporary design on Euclid, but this just seems like it's trying to incorporate too many different concepts, with the end result looking jumbled.   Here's hoping it gets refined through design review.  And I appreciate that others may have a different point of view.

Edited by htsfan
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Cleveland is wayyyy too conservative. I love the change up/energy the building will provide Euclid. I remember alot of people poo pooed the The Beacon but it has added so much to Euclid even though its not your typical Cleve designed apartment building. Cle doesn't have much color on Euclid, we r finally getting some glass with The Lumen. Its time "excitement/quirky/different" meets downtown.

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https://www.crainscleveland.com/real-estate/new-apartment-tower-surfaces-near-clevelands-city-club-building

 

 

Quote

Cleveland Councilman Kerry McCormack, whose Ward 3 includes downtown, said he was excited to see the project reach the city planning review stage.

"It's a funky design. It's not what you'd expect, but I like it," McCormack said in a Friday, Jan. 10, phone interview.

 

in the words of the immortal james brown....  "whatsin ever you do....  it's got to be funky.."

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I like it a lot, reminds me of something bigger cities would have. Buildings like this always stick with me after a trip to NYC or Chicago. I think it's refreshing, although it could use more consistency if you really wanna nitpick.

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22 minutes ago, htsfan said:

I have to say, I tend to agree.  It's kind of a hot mess, and looks like it belongs in Vegas or Miami Beach.  I'm all for mixing it up and inserting contemporary design on Euclid, but this just seems like it's trying to incorporate too many different concepts, with the end result looking jumbled.   Here's hoping it gets refined through design review.  And I appreciate that others may have a different point of view.

Why can’t we have something that looks like Vegas or Miami Beach?

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9 minutes ago, inlovewithCLE said:

Why can’t we have something that looks like Vegas or Miami Beach?

I just prefer a cleaner aesthetic, like many of the newer buildings along the Highline in NYC; think Zaha Hadid.  Just seems more sophisticated than this design, which IMO looks like some of the trashy Vegas and  Miami Beach architecture of the late 90s and  2000s.  Just my opinion.  

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My delayed contribution......

 

City+Club+apartments1.JPG

 

FRIDAY, JANUARY 10, 2020

Another residential tower continues Euclid Avenue's boom

 

The Michigan-based chain of City Club Apartments has acquired enough capital to move forward with a proposed 23-story apartment tower at 720 Euclid Ave. in downtown Cleveland. It would be the third new-construction apartment tower to rise on Euclid Avenue downtown since 2018.

Based on preliminary, conceptual designs submitted to the City Planning Commission for approval Jan. 16, the new tower would measure about 250,000 square feet and offer 310 apartments over a two-level retail/lobby base. Proposed retail includes a restaurant and a doggy day care business.

At this early stage of planning, the high-rise would offer 180 studios, 78 one-bedroom apartments, 42 two-bedroom apartments and 10 three-bedroom apartments. Prices for those units are not yet available.

Based on the per-square-foot construction costs of the other two apartment towers built recently -- the 29-story Beacon and the 34-story Lumen -- the construction cost of the City Club Apartments could be less than $85 million.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2020/01/another-residential-tower-continues.html

 

Edited by KJP
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I see from the renderings that the northeast corner of the 668 building has some kind of colorful mural that appears to mimic the colorful City Club design. Since the owners of the new building don't have a financial interest in the 668 building I assume no mural will be painted and that the one in the rendering is just for show. I like the idea of a mural on that wall I wonder if the developer will work with 668 to install one. Or will that wall remain plain as it is now? One can hope for the former.

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I'm excited to see another residential highrise, and won't complain if it's built exactly as pictured since Cleveland doesn't have anything like it. But it looks like every highrise built in Nashville, Austin, Minneapolis, or wherever. Dime a dozen crap.

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KJP---as always, great article.  Question regarding, 

 

"...City Club Apartments was able to keep construction costs low by not having to purchase any land or build any parking for the new building. That likely trimmed $10 million to $15 million from the tower's development costs.

Instead, Holtzman worked out a deal with the property's current owner David Goldberg to not only build on the Goldberg site but to also dedicate parking spaces to City Club Apartments residents in a six-story, 540-space garage. That parking deck is mostly full during the day but mostly empty at night. The new apartment building would be connected to the existing garage with a new, enclosed walkway....."

 

Since no land purchase was made, does this mean City Club is renting the land from David Goldberg?  Or zero rent and Goldberg gets a percentage of the profits? You said "worked out a deal"---just curious as to what the arrangement was.

 

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4 hours ago, htsfan said:

I just prefer a cleaner aesthetic, like many of the newer buildings along the Highline in NYC; think Zaha Hadid.  Just seems more sophisticated than this design, which IMO looks like some of the trashy Vegas and  Miami Beach architecture of the late 90s and  2000s.  Just my opinion.  

I love the late Zaha Hadid (3rd bldg on left on Biscayne Blvd., in Miami), but this design doesn't have her organic aesthetic, nor her level of sophistication.

 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/Xq4cgKxBgxM3XtGA8

 

While certainly unique, I have to agree with "Paul in Cleveland," I'm just not sold on this design for this particular location.

Edited by Frmr CLEder
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33 minutes ago, Pugu said:

 

Since no land purchase was made, does this mean City Club is renting the land from David Goldberg?  Or zero rent and Goldberg gets a percentage of the profits? You said "worked out a deal"---just curious as to what the arrangement was.

 

 

According to Jordyn's article, it doesn't sound like it's nailed down yet....

 

"Goldberg declined to discuss a potential sale price. He noted that a land lease, rather than a sale, is also a possibility."

https://www.cleveland.com/business/2020/01/new-apartment-tower-planned-on-euclid-avenue-parking-lot.html

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The development is great and I think a little quirkiness can be good to mix things up. But something about the way this building interacts (or rather doesn't at all) with its neighbors is a little off-putting. I think the biggest thing for me is the wing at the top. That seems the most out of place, had me looking for palm trees in the rendering 

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Too bad it’s not going all the way up against 668 to obscure that ridiculous parapet/cornice detail

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I think the stupid Hollywood movie lot parapet thing happened because there was supposed to be a rebuilt floor up there to match the rebuilt facade, but the extra floor didn't get built for some reason or another.

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On 1/11/2020 at 2:32 PM, ExPatClevGuy said:

The illustration of this exciting new tower with a related reference to the Hippodrome on the marquee sent me snooping across the web to learn more. There's so much content out there about it too. - Jon Phillip Sousa performed there often, also Fanny Brice, Babe Ruth, Isadora Duncan, Anna Pavlova, Will Rogers; Enrico Caruso, Sarah Bernhardt, W. C. Fields, Al Jolson, John McCormack... The auditorium had two balconies with elevators, and seating for 3,548. They all played the Hipp!  Sousa insisted on performing in Cleveland each time he passed through with his band. The dining room shown in the historic image below was a part of the Hippodrome lobby.

Needless to say, the tower above the Hippodrome was not short on contemporary decoration of that era, so I'm reluctant to shun the now contemporary elements on this long-awaited replacement. 

* The only change I might prefer would be that the parking entrance to the right of the new tower be designed to appear integral to the building. Perhaps as if under some sort of (transom?) or other defining element. Such might make it appear inclusive to the building and not leave an open gap between the new City Club tower and 668. As it appears now, the space will simply look like an open alley.  (I really do hate the way the props supporting the front parapet of 668 are so visible, they make the otherwise elegant 668 look like a cheap movie prop.)

 

hipp2.jpg

2096269670_ScreenShot2020-01-10at4_40_49PM.thumb.png.b68d69d71f0fcec4636038486237983e.png

Hipp.jpg

 

The Hippodrome marquee seems to imply a laneway of sorts, but didn't see anything to that effect in the ground-floor plan a couple pages back. Anyone know what the intent is here?

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"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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Very nice looking project here! I hope somewhere in this building, they pay homage to the hippodrome,.. maybe a wall somewhere that public has access to, with some nice photos and a placard stating its significance.

 

 

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On 1/11/2020 at 5:02 PM, lockdog said:

https://www.crainscleveland.com/real-estate/new-apartment-tower-surfaces-near-clevelands-city-club-building

 

 

 

in the words of the immortal james brown....  "whatsin ever you do....  it's got to be funky.."

Along with the Beacon, two funky buildings in Cleveland , oh my! Can we handle it? Better than another boring building.

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On 1/13/2020 at 12:56 AM, w28th said:

Too bad it’s not going all the way up against 668 to obscure that ridiculous parapet/cornice detail

Its those ugly as* beams on the roof that props the fake edifice up that makes the building look so cheap that needs to be obscured by this new building. I think from most angles it will, but not entirely ... except for some of the residents of this new building.

Edited by shack

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https://www.cleveland.com/business/2020/01/downtown-design-review-committee-gives-ok-to-planned-city-club-apartments-with-conditions.html

 

Some very interesting information in here.  Looks like they  beat the flats in terms of providing the city with micro apartments.  Target income range is $45,000-$65000 and target demographic is young urban professionals.  Feel like this will fill up quickly as I believe there is a need for it!

Edited by cle_guy90
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15 minutes ago, cle_guy90 said:

https://www.cleveland.com/business/2020/01/downtown-design-review-committee-gives-ok-to-planned-city-club-apartments-with-conditions.html

 

Some very interesting information in here.  Looks like it beat the flats in terms of providing the city with the micro apartments.  Target income range is $45,000-$65000 for young urban professionals.  Feel like this will fill up quickly as I believe there is a need for it!

More of this type of development please!!

 

I know a lot of people in that target demographic / income range who would love to live downtown but currently cannot afford many of the available units. This would help boost even more younger people into the city, and help fill a much needed gap in downtown residential price points.

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from the article:

 

"Concerns were raised about the building being too close to the City Club building next door; the planned four-foot balconies being too small to be usable; and the building being too short and wide."

 

How is it too close? There's E 8  between them and bldgs should be side to side along city streets (unless there is something like E. 8 st in between).  We don't need lawns or plazas between buildings.

 

"four-foot balconies being too small"  -- they're about four feet bigger than nothing. certainly 2-3 people can stand on it and look out. and depending on the depth is big enough for a small table to have breakfast or drinks on.

 

"too short and wide."  too wide? bizzare comment as that's the size of the open space.   "too short"---that's interesting---i though 23 stories was okay, but would happily take a 30-story bldg, but is that the role of the design review committee? what if the developer doesn't have budget for taller? does the city then try to kill the project?

 

 

 

 

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26 minutes ago, Pugu said:

from the article:

 

"Concerns were raised about the building being too close to the City Club building next door; the planned four-foot balconies being too small to be usable; and the building being too short and wide."

 

How is it too close? There's E 8  between them and bldgs should be side to side along city streets (unless there is something like E. 8 st in between).  We don't need lawns or plazas between buildings.

 

"four-foot balconies being too small"  -- they're about four feet bigger than nothing. certainly 2-3 people can stand on it and look out. and depending on the depth is big enough for a small table to have breakfast or drinks on.

 

"too short and wide."  too wide? bizzare comment as that's the size of the open space.   "too short"---that's interesting---i though 23 stories was okay, but would happily take a 30-story bldg, but is that the role of the design review committee? what if the developer doesn't have budget for taller? does the city then try to kill the project?

 

 

 

 

Maybe they prefer “balconies” like they approved for the Langston at CSU. What is this nonsense?

DCCD3224-18C7-4D89-AC8C-0DA297A5D298.jpeg

Here’s the garbage they sign off on.

4C0A5731-23F4-4A65-8DD9-7C39107004E6.jpeg

Edited by marty15
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17 minutes ago, Pugu said:

from the article:

 

"Concerns were raised about the building being too close to the City Club building next door; the planned four-foot balconies being too small to be usable; and the building being too short and wide."

 

How is it too close? There's E 8  between them and bldgs should be side to side along city streets (unless there is something like E. 8 st in between).  We don't need lawns or plazas between buildings.

 

"four-foot balconies being too small"  -- they're about four feet bigger than nothing. certainly 2-3 people can stand on it and look out. and depending on the depth is big enough for a small table to have breakfast or drinks on.

 

"too short and wide."  too wide? bizzare comment as that's the size of the open space.   "too short"---that's interesting---i though 23 stories was okay, but would happily take a 30-story bldg, but is that the role of the design review committee? what if the developer doesn't have budget for taller? does the city then try to kill the project?

 

 

 

 

Maybe they prefer the height of the parking lot? The concerns of design review seem capricious most of the time. They opine just to opine. 

Edited by freefourur
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I love the idea of a design review committee in principle, but in practice our design review committee seems to always come up with off the wall stuff while ignoring serious design flaws.

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Seems that their "greatest contribution" is to ensure that Cleveland has nothing but a bunch of similar-looking/similar-colored buildings.

Edited by KJP
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In all fairness, they had gotten a little bit better; there've been a few recent standouts downtown anyway (Hilton, Lumen, Beacon, Nucleus)

Edited by Frmr CLEder
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"Concerns were raised about the building being too close to the City Club building next door; the planned four-foot balconies being too small to be usable; and the building being too short and wide."  

 

I dont usually agree with pretty much anything they say- but wasn't expecting them to ask for more height?  😅  I guess I wouldn't be opposed to that. 

Edited by mrclifton88
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We can have a friendly conversation about the design of the City Club Apartments - I happen to like it and think it’s a breath of fresh air for Cleveland.  But aside from its design,  I bet we can agree that one of the most underserved demographics downtown are those youngest apartment dwellers -just-out-of-School (or not in school), trying to get established and wanting to be in the city -not in their parents’ suburbs.  They don’t need much of their own space to hang out in because they’ll be going out Living the life a lot  - And they also have a little more money to spend than I did at that point.  And if their new building has cool amenities, like a rooftop pool,  first class doggy daycare and a funky modern vibe in a real neighborhood where they can get a nice studio or “nano” apartment - that’s gonna be a very successful formula. . The Channel 19 video did a good job of illustrating those points and how the City Club Apartments will be marketing themselves. The presence of this demographic downtown is going to have a very positive domino effect for many  businesses and  the general pedestrian energy at street level.  This is a  different group than their neighbors in the Beacon or in the Lumen, but a very important piece in continuing the narrative of Cleveland as an increasingly  dynamic city. It’s an excellent strategy by the City Club Apartments and Im hoping that this project becomes a hot destination for those youngest urban professionals of every stripe. 

 

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