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Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: Development and News (non-3CDC)

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1 hour ago, savadams13 said:

 

There are a number of stores that sell clothing for men downtown. They are niche market stores but they serve a purpose. With more and more people buying online you are going to find any retailer bullish about opening a store in an urban region at the moment. You post on here alot about wanting alot of national and intl retailers to come downtown, but the numbers are just not there yet. If downtown can secure an urban format Target similar to Corryville things will start going in the right direction. Everything takes time. I remember when tower place mall was nicer than Kenwood back in the day. 

 

It's the, "what comes first the chicken or the egg"....

 

 

 

You need the population to obtain these retail destinations, but it's hard to convince someone who lives in Kenwood or blue Ash, hey come move downtown! 

 

It's a bad pitch when you say, well we don't have any dry cleaning stores, we don't have any bicycle shops, we don't have a apple store, barely any men clothes stores, etc, etc.

 

Alot of concerns about folks who are interested in urban living but don't is because they don't know where to get groceries, where to go work out, where to buy a new bike, where to get their iPhones fixed, etc..

 

Our Urban core needs to resemble like a functioning liveable city where you have all the daily necessities that the suburbs provide. .. Obviously Cincy is doing miles better with the new downtown Kroger and the new planet fitness opening at the banks.

 

That said, I don't know how you convince someone to live downtown when it still doesn't have half of the ammenties that a suburb like blue Ash or Kenwood can provide. 

 

This isn't even touching the cincinnati public school system which doesn't even compare to say mason or sycamore school systems.

 

I don't know how we create a migration where people could sacrifice goof school systems for the subpar cincinnati public, and give up so many amenties that the suburbs provide.

 

I want families living downtown to! I see so many 25-35 year olds, with no kids, no families and it just creates this empty void downtown 

 

 

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I mean in those suburbs they have to drive to those amenities that we don't have downtown.  You can easily drive to Newport or Oakley in 10 minutes and get the same amenities.  I would obviously prefer they were just located in downtown so I can walk to them, but it's no different for me to get to a bike shop or apple store then it is for someone who lives in the burbs. 

 

Btw there are multiple dry cleaning services that will pick up and drop off at your place downtown so that isn't something we're missing.  

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^Troeros I am with you that we need a lot of things downtown still and in OTR, but you are kind of contradicting yourself. They are filling these apartments and building 1,000 more plus all the hotels, etc. There is demand to move downtown and we are getting a huge migration to the basin in spite of everything you stated. As more and more people come it will be more and more amenities.

 

Chicken or Egg, if the egg is population increase, it's going to be the egg. We aren't going to incentive Apple or Macy's to stay downtown anymore so it has to be the egg. It is what it is. I wouldn't worry about it.

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2 hours ago, troeros said:

 

It's the, "what comes first the chicken or the egg"....

 

 

 

You need the population to obtain these retail destinations, but it's hard to convince someone who lives in Kenwood or blue Ash, hey come move downtown! 

 

It's a bad pitch when you say, well we don't have any dry cleaning stores, we don't have any bicycle shops, we don't have a apple store, barely any men clothes stores, etc, etc.

 

Alot of concerns about folks who are interested in urban living but don't is because they don't know where to get groceries, where to go work out, where to buy a new bike, where to get their iPhones fixed, etc..

 

Our Urban core needs to resemble like a functioning liveable city where you have all the daily necessities that the suburbs provide. .. Obviously Cincy is doing miles better with the new downtown Kroger and the new planet fitness opening at the banks.

 

That said, I don't know how you convince someone to live downtown when it still doesn't have half of the ammenties that a suburb like blue Ash or Kenwood can provide. 

 

This isn't even touching the cincinnati public school system which doesn't even compare to say mason or sycamore school systems.

 

I don't know how we create a migration where people could sacrifice goof school systems for the subpar cincinnati public, and give up so many amenties that the suburbs provide.

 

I want families living downtown to! I see so many 25-35 year olds, with no kids, no families and it just creates this empty void downtown 

 

 

You need to be patient. Everything takes time and in this city it takes a bit longer. Hell no one lived north of Central 10 years ago and now look at it, you have people living north of liberty even. There were only a handful of residential projects and they were around garfield/piatt park back in the 90s early 2000s. I have see a major uptick in activity downtown in just the past five years. There are plenty of amenities already for residents. Once the grocery opens it will be even better. You dont need to convince people to move downtown, there are alot of empty nesters moving down here, and alot of young families too. You might see too many 25-35 year olds  because that is probably the crowd you run in and around town. Trust me the city is going in the right direction, this is a conservative city so it takes more time...

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2 hours ago, troeros said:

 

It's the, "what comes first the chicken or the egg"....

 

 

 

You need the population to obtain these retail destinations, but it's hard to convince someone who lives in Kenwood or blue Ash, hey come move downtown! 

 

It's a bad pitch when you say, well we don't have any dry cleaning stores, we don't have any bicycle shops, we don't have a apple store, barely any men clothes stores, etc, etc.

 

Alot of concerns about folks who are interested in urban living but don't is because they don't know where to get groceries, where to go work out, where to buy a new bike, where to get their iPhones fixed, etc..

 

Our Urban core needs to resemble like a functioning liveable city where you have all the daily necessities that the suburbs provide. .. Obviously Cincy is doing miles better with the new downtown Kroger and the new planet fitness opening at the banks.

 

That said, I don't know how you convince someone to live downtown when it still doesn't have half of the ammenties that a suburb like blue Ash or Kenwood can provide. 

 

This isn't even touching the cincinnati public school system which doesn't even compare to say mason or sycamore school systems.

 

I don't know how we create a migration where people could sacrifice goof school systems for the subpar cincinnati public, and give up so many amenties that the suburbs provide.

 

I want families living downtown to! I see so many 25-35 year olds, with no kids, no families and it just creates this empty void downtown 

 

 

 

My old building had lots of kids and families. I moved to Northside and I still need to go downtown for some things, but I've literally never needed to go to Blue Ash. So I'm not sure I buy your argument that Blue Ash has more amenities than downtown. And as others mentioned, if you count driving radius, downtown is the most amenity place in the entire region--and probably in all of Ohio or Kentucky. 

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14 year old shot and killed in the same place that a 37 year old was shot and killed.  

 

if you look on shot spotter almost all of the shootings in otr this year have now taken around the park in e McMicken in otr. 

 

This probably correlates with the closing of Findley playground last year...

 

That said, why aren't police patrolling this area 24/7? Why aren't there giant patrol lights that illuminate this park? It's clear that all the thugs are making this HQ for crime and death in otr.

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On 6/30/2019 at 3:03 PM, troeros said:

if you look on shot spotter almost all of the shootings in otr this year have now taken around the park in e McMicken in otr. 


Is there a publicly accessible site to look at shotspotter maps? I haven't seen one.

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1 hour ago, ryanlammi said:


Is there a publicly accessible site to look at shotspotter maps? I haven't seen one.

I get printouts of incidents at the monthly safety sector meetings. They appear to be the same as these: https://cpdmobile.cincinnati-oh.gov/Neighborhoods/default.html

 

This portal appears to be the same data but actually updated more regularly: https://public.tableau.com/profile/cincystat#!/vizhome/CPDNeighborhoodReport28/NeighborhoodReport

 

These are not shot spotter though. I have never seen one presented publicly in any meetings in OTR at least.

 

I think what @troeros is trying to say is that most of the gun murders have been around Grant Park, which is accurate.

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OK. The Mt. Auburn Community Council gets a printout of this info with some trends from previous months/years as well. I was surprised when troeros said something about shotspotter maps because I didn't think the city released that info publicly.

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HJH Realty Corp is looking to add a fourth floor on court street(great clips building) keeping with historical standing.  They also looking to add 5 units to floors 2-4.  Interesting to see a entire floor level added. 

EC53AAFD-39AF-4DA2-B135-59D05B67C71F.png

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8 minutes ago, lobanio0 said:

HJH Realty Corp is looking to add a fourth floor on court street(great clips building) keeping with historical standing.  They also looking to add 5 units to floors 2-4.  Interesting to see a entire floor level added. 

EC53AAFD-39AF-4DA2-B135-59D05B67C71F.png

 

Cool! I hope they’re allowed to do it. I wonder how and when that building lost a floor in the first place? 


www.cincinnatiideas.com

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3 minutes ago, thebillshark said:

 

Cool! I hope they’re allowed to do it. I wonder how and when that building lost a floor in the first place? 

According to the packet between 1968-1985, I would think someone would have a more exact date ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

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Looks like a great project. With the 3CDC rehabs, new grocery and apartment tower, and this project, Court St. is really seeing a lot of investment. As this node develops further, it will help bridge the activity gap between the CBD core and OTR. I really hope a highrise goes in across Walnut from this building. Removing that huge parking lot would do wonders for improving the psychological connection between this area and the rest of downtown. I think this should be more of a priority than repurposing the library's north building, though I understand the latter might be easier to develop given its public ownership.

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I just saw on Instagram that Urban Expansion is renovating 1709 Race into 2 micro apartments and 1 commercial space. It's great to see more projects finally happening between Liberty and Findlay Market. That stretch of Race has a lot of great buildings that are vacant or underutilized.

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The latest HCB packet has a request to demolish 34 Green St: https://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/buildings/historic-conservation/historic-conservation-board/july-22-2019-staff-report-and-attachments-updated/

 

It is a non-contributing building, so typically a demolition request would be granted, but in this case the developer hasn't shared any details of plans, so the board's recommendation is to only issue demolition permit under the following conditions:

Quote

1.The Director of Buildings & Inspections shall authorize the issuance of the Wrecking Permit only when the Historic Conservation Board approves a COA for redevelopment of the site, and when a building permit in substantial conformity with that COA is issued.

2. This approval of a COA for a Wrecking Permit shall expire in two years from the date of this decision if the Historic Conservation Board does not approve a redevelopment COA for the site.  

3. If a redevelopment COA for the site is approved by the Historic Conservation Board, the expiration date of the Wrecking Permit shall be extended in a duration consistent with the redevelopment COA.

 

Edited by jwulsin

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On 7/15/2019 at 5:11 PM, taestell said:

I just saw on Instagram that Urban Expansion is renovating 1709 Race into 2 micro apartments and 1 commercial space. It's great to see more projects finally happening between Liberty and Findlay Market. That stretch of Race has a lot of great buildings that are vacant or underutilized.

Am I missing something or do you mean 34 green? 37 Green looks like a perfectly good building (at least in google maps)

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15 minutes ago, taestell said:

No, 1709 Race...the small two-story building just south of the Findlay Market parking lot.

whoops...meant to quote jwulsin

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1 hour ago, seaswan said:

Am I missing something or do you mean 34 green? 37 Green looks like a perfectly good building (at least in google maps)

 

Yea, it is 34 Green, not 37.

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6 hours ago, seaswan said:

Am I missing something or do you mean 34 green? 37 Green looks like a perfectly good building (at least in google maps)

yeah. sorry. It's 34 Green St. I just updated my post with the correct address and updated URL for the HCB packet. 

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Can anyone shine some light on what the heck is going on with Freeport Row? 

 

 

First the developers said August/Sept of 2018... Then the biz journal came out with the developer said they would start construction shortly. 

 

They moved some dirt earlier in the year but from what I understand that's about it. 

 

So is this project dead? Did the developer lose all of their financing? I'm just trying to add up this puzzle of this bizarre stop and start development site...?

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I heard some information about this project that I can't share publicly, but from what I was told, this project is not going to be breaking ground anytime soon. It's not dead, though.

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3 minutes ago, taestell said:

I heard some information about this project that I can't share publicly, but from what I was told, this project is not going to be breaking ground anytime soon. It's not dead, though.

 

Can you share whether it's due to a financial issue or external delays..like are the developers waiting for FCC stadium? 

 

 

 

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 One last note, but this also means that the current renderings of freeport are useless since the hcb design only last for 2 years once issued.

 

That means the developers would have to go back to the hcb for the 3rd time...this developer is such a wreck. 

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17 hours ago, troeros said:

 

Can you share whether it's due to a financial issue or external delays..like are the developers waiting for FCC stadium? 

 

 

 

 

That was my thought as well. I wonder if they're trying to tie this into the parking they need or something.

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No, it's not related to the stadium. It would be nice if they partnered with Hamilton County and incorporated the new FC Cincinnati garage into the center of this development, but that is not what's happening.

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So it's not related to the FCC Stadium and not a financing issue...then I'm lost what it could be?

 

Nothing is making sense for the cause of the delay. Is it the liberty diet? A water main? I'm just not following...

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10 minutes ago, troeros said:

So it's not related to the FCC Stadium and not a financing issue...then I'm lost what it could be?

 

Nothing is making sense for the cause of the delay. Is it the liberty diet? A water main? I'm just not following...

 

IDK maybe the developer is trying to make a ton of money instead of just a lot, just like every other developer.  

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It shouldn't have anything to do with Liberty Street road diet or water main, since those are are affecting the south side of the road, and this is on the north side.   

 

I know that they are working on new In Fill guidelines for OTR.  I honestly can't remember what the last set of design plans for this building looked like, but there is a good chance they would not pass these new infill guidelines.  While the new guidelines are more restrictive, they are also much more clear.  Maybe they are waiting for those new guidelines to go in place so they can submit updated plans.

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27 minutes ago, jmecklenborg said:

 

IDK maybe the developer is trying to make a ton of money instead of just a lot, just like every other developer.  

 

I see what you are saying...they own the old boys and girls club site right? So Im guessing they want a bigger development plot?  Which would probably mean a resdesign of some sort?

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26 minutes ago, troeros said:

 

I see what you are saying...they own the old boys and girls club site right? So Im guessing they want a bigger development plot?  Which would probably mean a resdesign of some sort?

 

Once a developer breaks ground, plans can't change.  It's almost like closing on a deal -- you might have made money, but if you did this or that differently, you could have made a lot more.  

 

The developer might be betting that his intersection will be a much better area in five years and he can win approval for a bigger building that commands higher rents.  Or he might simply wait for his land to appreciate and sell the bare land to another developer.  

 

 

 

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Keep in mind that Freeport Row was original designed by one developer and then the land and the plans were sold to a different developer to build it. So the new owner might have a slightly different vision for the project than the original owner did.

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OTR developer’s demolition bid runs into turbulence

 

The Cincinnati Historic Conservation Board denied a developer’s request to demolish an Over-the-Rhine building that is not considered historic, saying that he first must come up with a plan to redevelop the site.

 

The Historic Conservation declined to allow a building at 34 Green St. in Over-the-Rhine to be demolished without a plan to redevelop the site.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2019/07/23/otr-developer-s-demolition-bidruns-into-turbulence.html

 


"You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers

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On 7/15/2019 at 5:11 PM, taestell said:

I just saw on Instagram that Urban Expansion is renovating 1709 Race into 2 micro apartments and 1 commercial space. It's great to see more projects finally happening between Liberty and Findlay Market. That stretch of Race has a lot of great buildings that are vacant or underutilized.

 

Urban Expansion is now planning to open their new bar, called Bar Bar, at 1709 Race. They originally wanted to open it in Pendleton at the opposite corner as Three Points, but were met with opposition from Pendleton Community Council.

 

 

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The community council voted to endorse. A group of residents who did not go to the community council showed up at historic to oppose the project. 

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1 hour ago, seaswan said:

why did they oppose it?

 

Just for your typical NIMBY-ish reasons. "This is a family neighborhood, we don't want another bar here, we have too many bars already, there isn't enough parking" etc. etc. etc.

 

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2 minutes ago, taestell said:

 

Just for your typical NIMBY-ish reasons. "This is a family neighborhood, we don't want another bar here, we have too many bars already, there isn't enough parking" etc. etc. etc.

 

 

It's going to be quite entertaining to see how the pendelton community council handle the new retail developments and proposals that arise when the sycamore lots become developed...

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To correct myself and to acknowledge Brad's post above, it actually was not Pendleton Community Council that voted to oppose Bar Bar going in at 13th & Pendleton. The Community Council voted to support it but Pendleton residents went around them and took their opposition directly to HCB.

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