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Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: Development and News (non-3CDC)

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There was a story about this on WCPO where they discussed renovating the playground to try and encourage children/families to use the park, while removing all the tables and BBQs to reduce the number of adults loitering at the park. They also mentioned that the hope is to have the park open for next spring. Sounds like they are going to do a limited band-aid fix, which means future larger scale renovation would be easy in 5 years or so. 

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During the winter people can be seen burning garbage in the grills to keep warm.  It's like this window back in time to how 90% of American cities were, on a huge scale. 

 

In 2090 people simply won't believe the Hollywood movies from around 1990 like Robocop.  They won't have any piece of their own city that resembles what so much used to be like. 

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Off topic... but I recently watched Robocop for the first time expecting a campy 80's movie but that movie is ROUGH. Like a hard R-rating, surprisingly gory, surprisingly dark and like you said an interesting window on urban decay of the era. Another movie from that era is Candyman, similar display of late 80's early 90's urbanity. 

 

Hopefully this whole area gets a Washington Park/Zeigler Park like renewal (though a hardscape plaza, like a fountain square north) in the future because I think it could anchor that section of Vine street from Liberty to the curve up the hill. I personally think either Findlay or Grant playgrounds needs to become a 'center' to the brewery district that currently feels a bit disjointed. 

Edited by ucgrady

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Is their anyone  “in the know” with the current status of the race st infill project which was delayed because of a printing company occupying the space? Do we know if the printing company finally had left the space that was slated to be demolished? 

 

Also, this is an aside but I hope we figure out what (if any) plans there are for the last block of walnut st are/grammars Bar. The bar in particular is starting to look worse and worse, and that block of walnut is probably the least developed block in all of south of liberty. 

 

Hopefully we find out Wade will do, I still really liked those old renderings that were shown a few years ago. Sad it’s dead now. 

Edited by troeros

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Most of these deals take years, even after announced to finally get under way. My guess is that the Race St project (the one by Washington Park right?) is one of three plays in this city by Steiner and they are going to move on the one that is the easiest path forward (the Columbia Tusculum development). Race Street might be next but it comes down to timing. I'd love for it, and so many other projects to happen tomorrow or even a year from now. But most of the time that's not realistic.

 

As for Grammars, it looks like the buildings are at least being maintained. I saw some scaffolding on one of the buildings the other day. My guess is everything is in a holding pattern until ownership of the site is cleared up.


“All truly great thoughts are conceived while walking.”
-Friedrich Nietzsche

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Just now, troeros said:

Is their anyone  “in the know” with the current status of the race st infill project which was delayed because of a printing company occupying the space? Do we know if the printing company finally had left the space that was slated to be demolished? 

 

Also, this is an aside but I hope we figure out what (if any) plans there are for the last block of walnut st are/grammars Bar. The bar in particular is starting to look worse and worse, and that block of walnut is probably the least developed block in all of south of liberty. 

 

Hopefully we find out Wade will do, I still really liked those old renderings that were shown a few years ago. Sad it’s dead now. 

All Screen is still using the space, the owner has serious health problems that have caused issues with the initial timeline. That's as far as I know. 

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Just now, troeros said:

Is their anyone  “in the know” with the current status of the race st infill project which was delayed because of a printing company occupying the space? Do we know if the printing company finally had left the space that was slated to be demolished? 

 

Also, this is an aside but I hope we figure out what (if any) plans there are for the last block of walnut st are/grammars Bar. The bar in particular is starting to look worse and worse, and that block of walnut is probably the least developed block in all of south of liberty. 

 

Hopefully we find out Wade will do, I still really liked those old renderings that were shown a few years ago. Sad it’s dead now. 

 

I am not "in the know" but keep in mind that almost every development that is ever announced will take somewhere between 6 months and 2 years longer than the developer thinks it will take. They probably had to wait until the printing company's lease expired before they can even begin prep work to demolish the existing non-historic buildings. I have no reason to believe that this project has been cancelled. It's just slow to get started.

 

The Grammer's buildings are still owned by "WDC LLC" which was Martin and Marilyn Wade. They announced a major redevelopment plan for those buildings and several other nearby properties in 2014 but then they got divorced and the entire plan got shelved. UrbanSites is currently leasing the Grammer's parking lot and is using it for their tenant's parking. My hope/prediction is that they sell their properties on the west side of Walnut (between 14th and 15th) to 3CDC who then redevelops that entire block including the OTR Kroger site. The east side of Walnut (including Grammer's) would probably be a later phase of development.

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This reminds me of a conversation I had with a friend from out of town recently. 

 

He commented on the pace of development in Cincinnati and basically said in a hot real estate market, developers know that delays like this cost them money. Every day a development is not finished is a day they are not making money on the project. So why is there not a lot of urgency in the Cincinnati urban core? 

 

One cause is the small number of developers in the mix (almost all are local).

Another is that developments get caught up in the entitlement process.

Another is the lack of investors (the same people can only invest so much in a certain amount of time).

Another is the labor pool, labor is expensive and there are not enough workers in the region.

Another is the cost of construction does not line up with the price of the product so they need a financing gap.

 

In a hot market like Nashville, investors are putting down money hand over fist to build whatever. The city's FBC actually makes the entitlement process easy and the way Tennessee does TIF districts is pretty loose. Put that on top of a population that grows 100 people a day and you have a sure bet, so developers get moving ASAP.


“All truly great thoughts are conceived while walking.”
-Friedrich Nietzsche

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In the latest hcb packet it appears that 1518 Race Infill (15 units, ground floor retail) has been approved by the HCB.

 

Also more pleasant st development. That street in 5 years will probably be completely built out at this rate.

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Anyone have any updates on the project at 1216 and 1218 Race st? I know they were waiting for some business to move but that was supposed to happen in September if I remember correctly. 

 

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3 hours ago, Ucgrad2015 said:

Anyone have any updates on the project at 1216 and 1218 Race st? I know they were waiting for some business to move but that was supposed to happen in September if I remember correctly. 

 

Originally was supposed to change hands at end of August, pushed back 6 months to February. 

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OTR Main St continues to be on fire with its late night offering.

 

Babushka Perogies opening up a Perogie late night take out window, and full service vodka bar at the former royal spot.

 

Pins, Platform, and Babushka are all supposed to be open by end of December.

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On 11/1/2018 at 2:49 PM, troeros said:

In the latest hcb packet it appears that 1518 Race Infill (15 units, ground floor retail) has been approved by the HCB.

 

Also more pleasant st development. That street in 5 years will probably be completely built out at this rate.

 

Very disappointing to see so much opposition to 1518 Race from nearby residents. It's a vacant lot now! Why in the world would you not want a dense residential development built there? Unfortunately, NIMBYism is taking over quickly in OTR.

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Just now, troeros said:

OTR Main St continues to be on fire with its late night offering.

 

Babushka Perogies opening up a Perogie late night take out window, and full service vodka bar at the former royal spot.

 

Pins, Platform, and Babushka are all supposed to be open by end of December.

 

 

I have no idea what a perogie is.  But we'll soon have all sorts of people who grew up eating microwave pizza acting like they've always known what a perogie is. 

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Huh? Pierogies are pretty freaking commonplace anywhere that has a Polish or Ukranian population. Like, you know, an enormous chunk of Ohio. It's not some new trendy thing people will lie about knowing about. They're literally served in elementary schools all over Ohio. I can't tell you how many I ate growing up outside Cleveland and I'm not even slightly Polish/Ukranian.

Edited by jmicha
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For the record, I didn't grow up eating microwave pizzas and I know what a pierogi is. However I'm skeptical of that concept at that location. A simple late night chili parlor would kill with the weekend party crowd.

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Just now, jmecklenborg said:

 

 

I have no idea what a perogie is.  But we'll soon have all sorts of people who grew up eating microwave pizza acting like they've always known what a perogie is. 

 

I guess Cincinnati lacks a critical mass of Polish people.

 

I was shocked when I went to college in the 1980's and met people who didn't know what a bagel was...

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Just now, jmicha said:

Huh? Pierogies are pretty freaking commonplace anywhere that has a Polish or Ukranian population. Like, you know, an enormous chunk of Ohio. It's not some new trendy thing people will lie about knowing about. They're literally served in elementary schools all over Ohio. I can't tell you how many I ate growing up outside Cleveland and I'm not even slightly Polish/Ukranian.

Cleveland has mass amounts of East European immigrants settle there. Lots of Poles.

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Also, I just remembered that Longfellow's at 13th & Clay, which has a bit of an eccentric food menu, already sells pierogis. It's funny how restaurants always come in waves to Cincinnati. Are we seeing the beginning of a pierogi wave???

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^ There's that bun window that opened up too - I think we're seeing a broader dough stuffed with stuff wave. We'll have to wait and see if the ephemeral semi-Eli's related dumpling place tried to make a comeback.

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51 minutes ago, Ram23 said:

^ There's that bun window that opened up too - I think we're seeing a broader dough stuffed with stuff wave. We'll have to wait and see if the ephemeral semi-Eli's related dumpling place tried to make a comeback.

If so I hope the next is a brick and mortar empanadas aqui!

I like that we're getting more late night/street food options in the city, but am curious if there is really much of a market for it here. I remember going to the nom nom night market a couple times a few years back and was disappointed it wasn't hopping. For events like blink or what used to be mpmf this stuff would have been perfect. I worry it won't last, but hey gomez is still going strong...

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There is definitely plenty of people to go to these places.  Just look at how crowded Gomez and Goodfellas are every weekend late night.  The question is will these people try new places or just continue to go to those two.  

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10 hours ago, jmicha said:

Huh? Pierogies are pretty freaking commonplace anywhere that has a Polish or Ukranian population. Like, you know, an enormous chunk of Ohio. It's not some new trendy thing people will lie about knowing about. They're literally served in elementary schools all over Ohio. I can't tell you how many I ate growing up outside Cleveland and I'm not even slightly Polish/Ukranian.

 

 

Don't forget the Czech's! They love their Pierogis (But apparently not Spell check as it keeps trying to turn it to 'GROUPIES'). I dated a girl from a czech family up in Massillon Oh.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierogi

When will the Kabob carts hit Cincinnati? Or Khlav Kalash?

 

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10 hours ago, Ram23 said:

^ There's that bun window that opened up too - I think we're seeing a broader dough stuffed with stuff wave. We'll have to wait and see if the ephemeral semi-Eli's related dumpling place tried to make a comeback.

 

Still waiting for that pizza puff wave... Lol!

 

$


“All truly great thoughts are conceived while walking.”
-Friedrich Nietzsche

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Anybody have a recommendation for a good, reasonably-priced car mechanic near the urban basin? I used to use Parkway Automotive, but they had to move (out to Wooster Pike) for the FC Cincy stadium. 

 

 

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You know I am part of a rust belt urbanist group on Facebook that renamed itself into a perogi based name thinking it would unite the entire rust belt.   I had to explain to them that perogi's were more of a great lakes / St Louis*  thing, that much of the rust belt closer to the Ohio river like where I grew up just doesn't have them.

 

Perogi's are extremely common in the upper midwest btw.

 

 

*STL has a much stronger influence from the great lakes cities even down to having the northern cities vowel shift thanks to their proximity to the canal that connects the Mississippi to Lake Michigan via Chicago

Edited by neilworms

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I really associate pierogies with two places: Cleveland and Pittsburgh. I've had some absolutely delicious ones from a spot in Detroit-Shoreway in Cleveland that I think is now closed, unfortunately. I have tried the pierogies from Babushka at Findlay Market, and they were pretty good, if a little simple. I think this spot will be a great addition to OTR. Cheap, fast, comfort food is always a hit.

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Just now, edale said:

Yeah, but do they have a pierogi mascot race during Cubs/Tigers games? :classic_laugh: Pierogies are to Pittsburgh as chili is to Cincy!

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Pierogi_Race

 

Yeah even though Chicago was literally the seat of the Polish government in exile during World War 2 and still has the largest Polish population in the world outside of Poland, we do not have this.   I think Polish Sausage (said with the superfans voice from SNL) is bigger here.

Edited by neilworms

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10 hours ago, jwulsin said:

Anybody have a recommendation for a good, reasonably-priced car mechanic near the urban basin? I used to use Parkway Automotive, but they had to move (out to Wooster Pike) for the FC Cincy stadium. 

 

I'v

 

I've always been happy with the work done at the Monro shop at Walnut/Central Parkway. Pretty upfront on what actually is needed versus what could be put off. 

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1505 and 1513 Republic St were approved for Rehab for a total of 15 units in the latest HCB Packet.

 

 

Good to see some added density being added lately into these historic rehab projects. I swear 3-4 years, most of these historic structures were all being converted into Single Family Homes, lately it seems most of the conversions have been for dense multi units. 

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14 hours ago, jmecklenborg said:

1513 is a very large building.  1505 is a max 4 units. 

That is not correct. The HCB packet clearly states that 1505 Republic was most recently set up as six units. The proposed renovation will increase it to seven apartments by renovating the attic space and adding a rooftop deck. The apartments will all be 1-bedroom or studio setups. Thankfully, the Historic Conservation Board is recommending approval of the increased density (I was a bit afraid as I read through their comments that they were going to deny the 1-unit increase in density). I'm glad to see this kind of density on this block. Across the street is a massive, single-family house. It's good to have a diversity of sizes/uses/prices on the same block. 

 

1513-15 Republic functions as two separate buildings which are mirrored and identical in layout. They are proposing to put eight units in each building, for 16 total 1-bedroom apartments. Again... I'm glad to hear about this kind of density being approved. No mention of parking requirements, which almost certainly would have been a sticking point for a 16-unit building without dedicated parking, if they had applied for approval just a few months ago before Council removed the urban parking requirements. 

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4 hours ago, jwulsin said:

That is not correct. The HCB packet clearly states that 1505 Republic was most recently set up as six units.

 

My bad.  I looked on google street view and didn't see how deep the building is. 

 

If they are doing a total of 23 1-bedroom units they're not at the level where they need full-time management.  So it's going to be expensive to hire a management company - almost as expensive as hiring their own guy.  That's why you rarely see apartment complexes go up with less than 75 or so units.   

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1st photo is the bar at Race and Liberty. Second is the infill on Race that has had some conflict due to the number of units (which baffles me because OTR is meant to be dense). Third photo is a single family home close to Taft ale house. Fourth is the infill in West 15th st. (Still finishing construction on them and feels like they have been under construction for well over a year now) also in two years you will be able to see the new Fc stadium at the end of the street.

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