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Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: Development and News (non-3CDC)

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^Sorry, I think you all are overthinking this a bit. I don't think the government is saying "this is what we should be doing". I think the market is sorting itself out. It sorted itself out when 3CDC made all the garages, or if when they are deciding to have 95 spaces for the Logan Street Development, etc.

 

3CDC knew that the retail/restaurants/condos wouldn't be successful without the garages. They just got done building one at Ziegler Park, built a large surface lot on Liberty and Race, building another one on Vine, going to build another big one on Vine behind the old Kroger, etc.

 

So, I think you all are annoyed at the fact that we "aren't there yet" to not need any parking. I am with you all and agree with you all. But you can't fight the actual market. The actual market has said and is saying "If you don't build this structured parking, these establishments won't be successful."

 

The market is that way why? Well, we don't have dedicated buses, we don't have dedicated light rail, etc. Those are things which are frustrating for us all.

 

***I Do think the pardigm is shifting to less garages needed, etc. But it still isn't fully there yet and it probably will never be fully there, because Cincinnati is heavily reliant on personal vehicles and that stuff doesn't change quickly.

 

I don't want to argue with anyone about this, it is a thing of schematics, but we can't change what is actually happening. Developers are free to feast by building develpments with no parking, obviously this isn't just *happening*, otherwise we would see it all over the place. They need structured parking to some extent to be successful otherwise the people with the money would gladly do it without parking because they would make more cash. Instead they probably find they can't sell out the apartments with no parking or it's very high risk. It's another way to subsidize development which is obviously needed right now.

 

It's kind of like me saying this whole grain-free dog food craze is so freaking stupid and isn't correct scientifically. It isn't correct, but we can't go out as a small company and say "Do it this way you all are wrong!" because that is not what the market is doing. It would take a multi-million dollar marketing messaging to even get a dent of people to change. It's the same here, I understand the frustration and I am with you all on it.

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It's a terrible catch-22.  The more parking that's built because "we aren't there yet" the farther away "yet" gets.  Also keep in mind there's the market, and there's "the market."  The middle man in all this is the lenders.  If the builders and the buyers want less parking, but the project can't get financing without ticking all the check boxes, then that's a market failure, just not a government-imposed one.  I think that's why some places swung the pendulum all the way from parking minimums to parking maximums.  They predicted or saw outright that lenders were holding projects to suburban standards in conflict with new more permissive zoning. 

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I walked around DT Nashville for about 5 hours this past weekend.  Everything new is a Dallas Donut or otherwise has its parking on-site.  There is almost no functional street activity (aside from tourists) because people don't walk anywhere, despite being downtown or within walking distance of it.  

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53 minutes ago, jjakucyk said:

It's a terrible catch-22.  The more parking that's built because "we aren't there yet" the farther away "yet" gets.  Also keep in mind there's the market, and there's "the market."  The middle man in all this is the lenders.  If the builders and the buyers want less parking, but the project can't get financing without ticking all the check boxes, then that's a market failure, just not a government-imposed one.  I think that's why some places swung the pendulum all the way from parking minimums to parking maximums.  They predicted or saw outright that lenders were holding projects to suburban standards in conflict with new more permissive zoning. 

 

My thing is, I don't know of a way to measure it without really doing a ton of work, but I would guess the amount of parking per unit or restauarant seat, etc. has been steadilly decreasing in the last 5 years.

 

I also think people are taking risk like the Main and 8th development which has me excited in that *maybe* developers will see they can get away with little or no parking on certain projects.

 

I also think business people tend to be fairly smart and will look at most all angles they can to gain $50/unit or whatever, and they know that taking out the parking will give them a lot more flexibility and give them more profit margin per room than with parking. (save $200/unit with no parking then make rent $150 less per unit than competition w/parking, they gain $50).

 

I also think Banks would be wanting to do the same thing but those are a lot more slow to change than are developers. Especially National Banks and even probably large local banks like 5/3rd. You'd probably have more luck with like a Heritage Bank where the CEO can make the decision himself on whether to lend $15mm for a 90 unit apartment complex with retail on ground floor at the corner of Elm and 8th street with no parking or whatever, than US Bank doing it because your project has to fit within their national formula: Financing(x) = Property Values + Parking Spots + Downpayment + Pre-Lease ... whatever it is. But whatever that formula is, it's the same in Des Moines or Peoria, IL as it would be in Cincinnati.

 

Then the problem with local banks lending on local developments is they have less cash to lend so they need to see the ROI for them and their customers, so overall it's a slow process, but I bet things will keep getting better and better with less needed parking moving forward.

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I think people are getting a little picky.  The baseline situation in Over-the-Rhine lends itself to a much better environment in 2030 than the rebounds & urban booms in similar midsized cities.  

 

We have "fine-grained" streetscapes and, as importantly, much more diversified ownership of parcels on individual blocks as compared to the southern boom cities.  We have some local ownership of storefront businesses as opposed to non-stop chains in the Dallas Donut apartment buildings that comprise the bulk of the city revivals elsewhere.  

 

Also, the Cincinnati basin has on-street metered parking on most streets, which creates a more low-key pedestrian environment than elsewhere.  For example, the new towers lining the super-narrow streets in Nashville don't have space for on-street parking and so walking on the sidewalks is a little unnerving despite the very narrow width of the streets.  

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22 hours ago, IAGuy39 said:

 

My thing is, I don't know of a way to measure it without really doing a ton of work, but I would guess the amount of parking per unit or restauarant seat, etc. has been steadilly decreasing in the last 5 years.

 

Absolutely. Which is why I said it is annoying to see people on this board constantly posting about how we need more parking. My position and yours are the same. Which is that the market will decide, and that the market has been steadily moving away from more parking. Here's a piece from today's NY Times:
 

Sales of parking lots may rise further, research shows. The parking industry is still generally strong nationwide, with revenue up 1 percent annually since 2014, according to a report released in May by the research firm IBISWorld. But the same report forecast a bumpy road ahead, with annual revenue growth shrinking to 0.2 percent through 2024 and a wave of consolidation hitting the industry.

 

The report cited factors for the change, including an increase in traffic congestion, which dissuades drivers; greater interest in car-pooling and cycling, as well as a rise in bike infrastructure like new lanes; and a surge in the use of public transportation and ride-hailing services like Uber and Lyft.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/03/business/parking-lot-death-redevelopment.html

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Has there been a surge in public transit?  Seems all I've been hearing lately is the opposite, except in a few places like Seattle and maybe Denver.  Chicago has been hemorrhaging riders, as have LA, Boston, DC, and Atlanta.  It's really worrisome actually since gas prices have been kept so low. 

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On 12/7/2019 at 5:38 PM, jmecklenborg said:

McMicken St. beer garden, 12/7/19:

cincinnati-3326_zpsvusoxjmw.jpg

I'm really looking forward to this project. I was afraid it had stalled but glad to see it is still moving forward. The developers have a few buildings on this stretch of McMicken and this bar (Somerset IIRC?) should really help bring people up from the nearby Main Street intersection and Moerlein brewery.

 

McMicken is the last major street in OTR that still feels sketchy to me, so it's great to see this kind of investment.

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28 minutes ago, ucgrady said:

I'm really looking forward to this project. I was afraid it had stalled but glad to see it is still moving forward. The developers have a few buildings on this stretch of McMicken and this bar (Somerset IIRC?) should really help bring people up from the nearby Main Street intersection and Moerlein brewery.

 

McMicken is the last major street in OTR that still feels sketchy to me, so it's great to see this kind of investment.

 

It took quite a bit of time for people to feel comfortable enough to walk to Rhinegeist from South of Liberty back when the entire Findlay Market area wasn't as developed. 

 

I imagine most people will Uber to this new bar, or be in very large groups fot safety purposes. 

 

From what I recall this bar will close around midnight most nights, so that street will still be rather dead and uncomfortable to be in after that time. 

 

 

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Rhinegeist closed at midnight every night until the rooftop bar opened. This bar will only be ~700 feet from Liberty's Bar and Bottle (which is still popular) and less than a 1000 feet from Woodward/ MOTR. I think plenty of people will walk there.

 

By comparison Rhinegeist is 700 feet from Findlay Market, and almost half a mile from Tafts/Pleasantry/Zula which was the nearest cluster of bars until the area around Findlay started to pick up recently. 

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On 12/4/2019 at 2:30 PM, jjakucyk said:

Has there been a surge in public transit?  Seems all I've been hearing lately is the opposite, except in a few places like Seattle and maybe Denver.  Chicago has been hemorrhaging riders, as have LA, Boston, DC, and Atlanta.  It's really worrisome actually since gas prices have been kept so low. 

 

Bus ridership is trending down. But those people haven't been switching to private car use as much as they have been using rideshare services. On the other hand, rail transit usage is up in many places. Seattle is the most notable. Another example would be Philly, where the commuter rail system hit an all-time high in ridership a few years ago. Metro North also hit an all-time high in 2017. Minneapolis has seen significant gains in light rail ridership. Denver rail ridership is up. One notable exception is the DC Metro, which has seen declining ridership for years. However, they are also projecting an increase in ridership this year. So maybe the tide has turned there.

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On 12/3/2019 at 12:06 PM, jmecklenborg said:

I walked around DT Nashville for about 5 hours this past weekend.  Everything new is a Dallas Donut or otherwise has its parking on-site.  There is almost no functional street activity (aside from tourists) because people don't walk anywhere, despite being downtown or within walking distance of it.  

 

I was in Buenos Aires last week, and it was very interesting to see what is happening in the hot growth areas (particularly the Palermo neighborhood), in relation to parking. It seems like about everywhere they can, developers are putting up tall residential towers in the footprint of older 1-4ish story buildings. These towers invariably get an underground parking garage below them. So while the neighborhood is extremely dense and is getting more dense, with a subway and a number and frequency of bus lines that was head-spinning, as well as an exceptionally vibrant street life, private parking accommodation was a very high priority. The driving culture was correspondingly New World, too, with motorists showing no regard for pedestrians at unsignalized crosswalks, etc.

 

The blocks are pretty short and the grid network redundant enough, I guess, that there wasn't perpetual gridlock. And I suppose there is a bit of an economic restriction based on the number of people that can afford these parking spaces. But the paradox of it is fascinating.

 

Here are a couple examples of what this looks like:
https://www.google.com/maps/@-34.5843578,-58.4257009,3a,90y,121.32h,88.2t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sGFerDs6I0bkRUmD1o5IeGw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@-34.5872721,-58.4232439,3a,75y,53.2h,90.06t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sGl1jKlHp89fSGUuEndopMg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

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On 12/9/2019 at 12:05 PM, DEPACincy said:

 

Bus ridership is trending down. But those people haven't been switching to private car use as much as they have been using rideshare services. On the other hand, rail transit usage is up in many places. Seattle is the most notable. Another example would be Philly, where the commuter rail system hit an all-time high in ridership a few years ago. Metro North also hit an all-time high in 2017. Minneapolis has seen significant gains in light rail ridership. Denver rail ridership is up. One notable exception is the DC Metro, which has seen declining ridership for years. However, they are also projecting an increase in ridership this year. So maybe the tide has turned there.

 

Enemies of transit that invested heavily in ride sharing are disappointed in the results of their investments since they decreased bus usage but didn't affect or even supported rail transit. Enemies of transit don't mind buses so much but despise rail.

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On 12/3/2019 at 11:02 AM, IAGuy39 said:

^Sorry, I think you all are overthinking this a bit. I don't think the government is saying "this is what we should be doing". I think the market is sorting itself out. It sorted itself out when 3CDC made all the garages, or if when they are deciding to have 95 spaces for the Logan Street Development, etc.

 

3CDC knew that the retail/restaurants/condos wouldn't be successful without the garages. They just got done building one at Ziegler Park, built a large surface lot on Liberty and Race, building another one on Vine, going to build another big one on Vine behind the old Kroger, etc.

 

So, I think you all are annoyed at the fact that we "aren't there yet" to not need any parking. I am with you all and agree with you all. But you can't fight the actual market. The actual market has said and is saying "If you don't build this structured parking, these establishments won't be successful."

 

The market is that way why? Well, we don't have dedicated buses, we don't have dedicated light rail, etc. Those are things which are frustrating for us all.

 

***I Do think the pardigm is shifting to less garages needed, etc. But it still isn't fully there yet and it probably will never be fully there, because Cincinnati is heavily reliant on personal vehicles and that stuff doesn't change quickly.

 

I don't want to argue with anyone about this, it is a thing of schematics, but we can't change what is actually happening. Developers are free to feast by building develpments with no parking, obviously this isn't just *happening*, otherwise we would see it all over the place. They need structured parking to some extent to be successful otherwise the people with the money would gladly do it without parking because they would make more cash. Instead they probably find they can't sell out the apartments with no parking or it's very high risk. It's another way to subsidize development which is obviously needed right now.

 

It's kind of like me saying this whole grain-free dog food craze is so freaking stupid and isn't correct scientifically. It isn't correct, but we can't go out as a small company and say "Do it this way you all are wrong!" because that is not what the market is doing. It would take a multi-million dollar marketing messaging to even get a dent of people to change. It's the same here, I understand the frustration and I am with you all on it.

Valid points. At the end of the day there are only so many opportunities for structured parking in the neighborhood. Developers need to take those opportunities and build parking in accordance with the guidelines of the 2002 OTR Comprehensive plan. Even if everyone who lived in OTR walked everywhere and didnt have a car, the idea of people taking a bus from Montgomery to come eat in OTR is insane. Surface lots are no good but wherever there is a site that can support a well designed parking garage, the city should do everything it can to support the project. The commercial businesses in OTR are dependent on people driving in to spend money. Sadly and ironically, the area will never become dense enough with residents to fully support a vibrant walkable neighborhood without the right parking accommodations. 

 

Now, IF in 15 years, downtown has swelled by 10-20,000 residents, then perhaps OTR can truly boom without cash flowing from the pockets of Anderson residents.. 

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2 hours ago, ZoeBarnes said:

Now, IF in 15 years, downtown has swelled by 10-20,000 residents, then perhaps OTR can truly boom without cash flowing from the pockets of Anderson residents.. 

 

It isn't Anderson residents that are supporting OTR businesses. I know a lot of people in Anderson. They mostly eat on Beechmont Avenue. They come into the city once every couple of months maybe. Unless they work here. Then they mostly drive in, park in a garage, and drive out. The people supporting OTR businesses live in OTR, Downtown, Mt. Adams, Uptown, Northside, Pleasant Ridge, Norwood, Oakley, Hyde Park, Columbia-Tusculum, Covington, Newport, etc. Basically, the City. Some of these people drive there for sure. But many take Uber, Lyft, the bus, scooters, bikes, etc. And the percentage not getting there by car is only going to increase over time. I live in Northside. We eat out in OTR regularly. We Uber or take the bus. If it is nice, we'll bike. Occasionally we drive, and it is super easy to find a spot within a block or two from our destination. 

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7 hours ago, DEPACincy said:

 

It isn't Anderson residents that are supporting OTR businesses. I know a lot of people in Anderson. They mostly eat on Beechmont Avenue. They come into the city once every couple of months maybe. Unless they work here. Then they mostly drive in, park in a garage, and drive out. The people supporting OTR businesses live in OTR, Downtown, Mt. Adams, Uptown, Northside, Pleasant Ridge, Norwood, Oakley, Hyde Park, Columbia-Tusculum, Covington, Newport, etc. Basically, the City. Some of these people drive there for sure. But many take Uber, Lyft, the bus, scooters, bikes, etc. And the percentage not getting there by car is only going to increase over time. I live in Northside. We eat out in OTR regularly. We Uber or take the bus. If it is nice, we'll bike. Occasionally we drive, and it is super easy to find a spot within a block or two from our destination. 

I live in Madisonville and always eat downtown/OTR when I go for breakfast. Are the same places in Oakley/Hyde Park? Yes, but there’s just something about being able to go downtown and being able to  walk anywhere you want after eating. I also usually take development photos after. 

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8 hours ago, DEPACincy said:

 

It isn't Anderson residents that are supporting OTR businesses. I know a lot of people in Anderson. They mostly eat on Beechmont Avenue. They come into the city once every couple of months maybe. Unless they work here. Then they mostly drive in, park in a garage, and drive out. The people supporting OTR businesses live in OTR, Downtown, Mt. Adams, Uptown, Northside, Pleasant Ridge, Norwood, Oakley, Hyde Park, Columbia-Tusculum, Covington, Newport, etc. Basically, the City. Some of these people drive there for sure. But many take Uber, Lyft, the bus, scooters, bikes, etc. And the percentage not getting there by car is only going to increase over time. I live in Northside. We eat out in OTR regularly. We Uber or take the bus. If it is nice, we'll bike. Occasionally we drive, and it is super easy to find a spot within a block or two from our destination. 

Kudos to you for biking and bussing. I wish it was more convenient And that more people did it. i agree that the neighborhoods you listed do make up the majority of business for OTR biz and I of course didn’t literally mean that OTR depends on Anderson. BUT when you look around the city and think about people from Anderson, Blue Ash, Bridgetown, Florence, Montgomery, etc spending 1 night a month in OTR, those dollars add up and make up a really crucial % of sales that potentially pushes a business from viable to profitable. For now I believe continued progress in OTR will be gently reliant on suburban interest. A couple more respectful garages will cover us for suburbanites and tourists indefinitely. 

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On 12/17/2019 at 6:56 PM, ZoeBarnes said:

Kudos to you for biking and bussing. I wish it was more convenient And that more people did it. i agree that the neighborhoods you listed do make up the majority of business for OTR biz and I of course didn’t literally mean that OTR depends on Anderson. BUT when you look around the city and think about people from Anderson, Blue Ash, Bridgetown, Florence, Montgomery, etc spending 1 night a month in OTR, those dollars add up and make up a really crucial % of sales that potentially pushes a business from viable to profitable. For now I believe continued progress in OTR will be gently reliant on suburban interest. A couple more respectful garages will cover us for suburbanites and tourists indefinitely. 

 

I think that instead of building a couple more garages you can build a couple of apartment complexes on those sites and you will have more customers in a month than the total that currently come from Anderson, Blue Ash, Bridgetown, Florence, and Montgomery combined. 

 

This is anecdotal, but when I moved back to the region I found out that one of my high school best friends lived in Florence so I reached out about grabbing dinner. Here's how that conversation went:

 

Me: I'd love to grab dinner but I don't have a car yet so I need to walk there. Wanna grab a bite in OTR? 

 

Him: Ooohh yeaaaa, sorry I really hate driving in the city. What about the Buffalo Wild Wings in Florence? 

 

Me: Yea, like I said, I don't have a car yet so it would be very tough for me to get out there. Maybe we can meet somewhere in Covington? 

 

Him: Yea, like I said, not really good at driving in the city. I get too anxious. 

 

Me: Ok, well what if we did somewhere in Mainstrasse? That way, you can get right off the highway, park your car, and we can walk to our destination. No city driving necessary. 

 

Him: Ok, I guess I can do that. Let's shoot for 7pm. 

 

At 6:45 pm he texted me that there was no way he was going to be able to make the drive. It was too anxiety inducing. But hit him up after I get a car and we can grab dinner in Florence. I did not hit him up after that bull crap.

 

And I tell this story because I meet way more people from the places you listed with his attitude than not. Just last week we had a happy hour at work at Holiday Spirits. There is easy parking just across the street, in a nice parking lot. It could not be any easier to get in and out. The next day, my secretary--who lives in Bridgetown--told me how scared she was after she left because she drove one block and "there were guys at the corner staring at me. I'm glad I didn't break down or I would've died!"

 

Anyway, build more housing, not garages.

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24 minutes ago, DEPACincy said:

Anyway, build more housing, not garages.

In my mind that's what the Banks is supposed to be for; the suburban types who have visited the stadiums and are comfortable with 2nd/3rd street and using the large parking garage underneath. If you can't figure out how to get to or from the Banks and find parking then the issue is with the person, not the infrastructure. 

 

OTR is objectively more confusing, harder to drive to and more 'difficult' in the ways mentioned above. It requires navigating one way streets, dealing with people who look different from yourself or are from a different social class, non-ADA building entrances, and sometimes parallel parking. That isn't for everyone, so go to the banks. If you prefer the complexity, texture, history and diversity that comes with all of that, then go to OTR. 

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36 minutes ago, DEPACincy said:

Him: Ooohh yeaaaa, sorry I really hate driving in the city. What about the Buffalo Wild Wings in Florence? 

 

Any urban resident is familiar with this: people who are either "too anxious" to drive in the city or find it too "confusing". As if a simple grid of numbered streets is somehow more confusing than randomly named suburban streets winding in bizarre patterns, randomly changing names or ending in culs-de-sac.

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I actually get lost more easily in the 'burbs and find them more anxiety-inducing. Not stuff like Montgomery, Evendale or even Anderson that have a grid, but the newer ones with cancer layouts. Grid systems offer a safety valve for mistakes and help you navigate intuitively. On the other hand, one-ways totally break that and need eliminated in as many situations as possible.

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5 minutes ago, taestell said:

 

Any urban resident is familiar with this: people who are either "too anxious" to drive in the city or find it too "confusing". As if a simple grid of numbered streets is somehow more confusing than randomly named suburban streets winding in bizarre patterns, randomly changing names or ending in culs-de-sac.

 

Those big buildings built up to the curb might jump out at you if you aren't paying attention.


“To an Ohio resident - wherever he lives - some other part of his state seems unreal.”

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in school when we were taught about NEWS (north east west and south) some people weren't listening. When we learned about the weather and the difference between rain, snow, sleet and tornados some people weren't listening. When we learned about red green and yellow or a stop sign, merge sign, yield sign and no sign some people weren't listening. People don't listen because, well who knows. But, you end up with people who don't understand that a lane in the middle of a five lane highway (painted with left and right turn arrows in the center lane) is for people who want to turn. Instead they park themselves in the 2nd for 4th lanes with their signals going. When the odot puts up cement curbs in the middle of a 4 lane street, how many times have you seen people driving over these cement barriers because they see their destination. Or, a young woman sitting straight up with her hands and forearms touching the steering wheel (with her body close behind) following a vehicle way to close. That one always scares me. And for the last 20 years garmans have been directing traffic. They are simple machines not genies.

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New project coming to what was previously going to be the Hen Of The Woods restaurant on Main -- tax abatement approved by City Council on 12/18:

 

Quote

Authorized a Community Reinvestment Area tax exemption agreement with Liberty Modern, LLC for the $1.3 million rehabilitation of the mostly vacant historic J.B. Schmidt Garage building at 1432-1434 Main Street in Over-the-Rhine into a 7,238-square-foot bar and beer garden. The 12-year tax exemption will reduce the developments' property tax liability by approximately $9,141 per year over the life of the agreement, and the City expects a return on investment of $10.61 per $1 in property taxes foregone. Liberty Modern, LLC is owned and managed by for Urban Sites vice president Seth Maney, who currently serves as chief of staff for Councilmember Jeff Pastor.

 

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Several buildings in northern OTR received historic preservation funds from the state:

 

Quote

 

1735 Vine Street (Cincinnati, Hamilton)
Total Project Cost: $1,069,555
Total Tax Credit: $209,000
Address: 1735 Vine Street, Cincinnati, 45202
The building at 1735 Vine Street is emblematic of the buildings that make up the historic fabric of Over the Rhine: first floor commercial space with apartments on the floors above in a brick Italianate structure. Currently completely vacant, after rehabilitation the building will be home to six residential units, one of which will be affordable. Much of the original fabric remains and will be retained including the stairway and railing, trim, doors, and plaster.

 

1606 Elm Street (Cincinnati, Hamilton)

Total Project Cost: $1,279,173

Total Tax Credit: $125,000
Address: 1606 Elm Street, Cincinnati, 45202
The rehabilitation of 1606 Elm Street is part of the larger market Square and Findlay Market project undertaken by The Model Group in Over the Rhine. The small three-story building is one of the older buildings in the area and dates to around 1865. It will be reactivated with three apartments, one on each floor. Little historic fabric remains on the interior, but historic masonry and decorative features will be retained on the exterior of the building.

 

1618 Walnut (Cincinnati, Hamilton)
Total Project Cost: $672,333
Total Tax Credit: $94,695
Address: 1618 Walnut Street, Cincinnati, 45202
The long-vacant three-story residential building is located in the northern part of Over the Rhine. This area has just begun to see reinvestment and rehabilitation activity and the development plan calls for the building’s three residential units to be reactivated. Significant structural and mechanical improvements will be made and historic fabric such as decorative exterior features and interior stairs and woodwork will be repaired.

 

100 E. McMicken (Cincinnati, Hamilton)
Total Project Cost: $1,412,711
Total Tax Credit: $198,973
Address: 100 E. McMicken, Cincinnati, 45202
Built in the 1850s, this three-story Italianate building in the northern part of Over the Rhine has housed numerous commercial tenants over the years including a druggist, bakery, and physician. Upstairs, there were several small apartments that were reconfigured over the years. After the rehabilitation is completed, there will be six one-bedroom units in the building.

 

 

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26 minutes ago, taestell said:

They are painting over the Davis Furniture sign today.

IMG_1145.jpeg

 

Whats the latest status with this building? Its been going through the court system and appeals process for what seems like years now...

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I am curious whether the boutique hotel that was announced for 12th Street several years ago will ever move forward. They could also incorporate one into the 15th & Vine project, but I suspect that project will end up being the typical mix of parking garage, office space, and apartments or condos. As for the West End, it's possible that they could incorporate a hotel into the mixed-use development that will eventually surround the stadium, but there has been virtually nothing announced about that yet.

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The closure of the Millennium and its 600+ rooms means there is plenty of business to go around, given that the boutique hotels tend to be 100-150 rooms.  

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Well, 12th and Vine is a perfect spot for one.  Just sayin'.

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"You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers

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9 hours ago, ColDayMan said:

Well, 12th and Vine is a perfect spot for one.  Just sayin'.

That spot for sure needs to be redeveloped but whoever own it is probably making a decent amount from that lot. 

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11 minutes ago, Ucgrad2015 said:

That spot for sure needs to be redeveloped but whoever own it is probably making a decent amount from that lot. 

 

Does 3cdc still not own that lot? That lot was ear marked for future developement at some point. 

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30 minutes ago, troeros said:

 

Does 3cdc still not own that lot? That lot was ear marked for future developement at some point. 

 

They own it as well as the connections to Jackson St.  

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I agree that 12th and vine would make for the perfect boutique hotel location. Hotel guests would have abundant parking across the street and would be adjacent to a street car stop and would be in the center of many otr bars/resturaunts/etc. 

 

Hopefully 3cdc has a similar vision. Adding a few boutique hotels would also be great for otr street engagement. You typically have hotel guests in and out at various odd hours helping create pedestrian safety during late afternoon hours and busy side walk engagement. 

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5 hours ago, troeros said:

I agree that 12th and vine would make for the perfect boutique hotel location. Hotel guests would have abundant parking across the street and would be adjacent to a street car stop and would be in the center of many otr bars/resturaunts/etc. 

 

Hopefully 3cdc has a similar vision. Adding a few boutique hotels would also be great for otr street engagement. You typically have hotel guests in and out at various odd hours helping create pedestrian safety during late afternoon hours and busy side walk engagement. 

The parking lot to the north  from the new apartment building in Pendleton going up would be a good spot for a boutique hotel as well. 

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That would be a great building for a hotel, but there’s not much within walking distance yet. I think 12th & Vine is just about the perfect location, if the developer can get approval to build a hotel of a significant size. Based on current guidelines, I think you could technically get a 6 story building approved for that site, since it would be right next to a 5 story building at the corner of 12th and Jackson. Not sure how many rooms that could fit.

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3 hours ago, taestell said:

That would be a great building for a hotel, but there’s not much within walking distance yet. I think 12th & Vine is just about the perfect location, if the developer can get approval to build a hotel of a significant size. Based on current guidelines, I think you could technically get a 6 story building approved for that site, since it would be right next to a 5 story building at the corner of 12th and Jackson. Not sure how many rooms that could fit.

 

I think the best chance of attracting a solid hotel developer and getting something built is to build new along Liberty (ideally at Vine) or along Central (ideally at Main). Those corridors would stand the best chance of going 6 or more stories and getting in a viable number of rooms that would make for an economic impact in OTR. It's overdue frankly. 

 

The Jackson Brewery building would have maybe 25 rooms with a single window that has a view. Not many people would pay for a room that faces north and not many people will want to walk up a hill to get back to the hotel after dinner. I like the 12th and Vine site because it is a viable idea given that 3CDC controls it. 

 

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7 hours ago, jmecklenborg said:

Findlay Playground's "temporary" closure is now in it's 14th+ month.  It should be a huge scandal by this point. 


do you have any crime stats to know if it has worked? Definitely should have heard about plans by now even if crime is way down around there. Perhaps there was a waiting period to see what happened with the FC garage. That playground is one of only a few viable sites to support parking so perhaps CRC was told to wait. 

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1 hour ago, ZoeBarnes said:


do you have any crime stats to know if it has worked? Definitely should have heard about plans by now even if crime is way down around there. Perhaps there was a waiting period to see what happened with the FC garage. That playground is one of only a few viable sites to support parking so perhaps CRC was told to wait. 

 

CRC held a series of meetings throughout November and December. The gist of it is that there isn't a lot of money available for any improvements, but there's hope that funding will become available soon-ish. So it seems like it's still in an wait-and-hold period. 

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