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Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: Development and News (non-3CDC)

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23 minutes ago, jmecklenborg said:

 

You clearly do not remember Club CLAU, which was where the Treehouse is now. 

 

The "highlight" was when Paris Hilton flew into Lunken Airport on her jet and spent 45 minutes at Club CLAU ("change lies ahead of us"), then jetted to the west coast where she took advantage of the time change to keep partying. 

 

 

 

 

Funny because one of the guys behind ghost baby was also part of club clau. 

 

I never went to clau but I have seen videos and I'm genuinely curious why it was so popular with the occasional celebs?

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1 hour ago, Robuu said:

 

Actually, you wouldn't find it in NYC or just about anywhere else, because other places don't generally have 1800s lagering cellars. That plus the CSO collaboration, plus the owners aggressively seeking media attention, is why there's so much hype.


Not a lagering cellar but how about an ice cage? I've actually been to this bar, but I did not partake in the ice cage.

 

http://mehanatanyc.com/ice-cage/

 

 

Edited by DEPACincy

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The "ice cage" falls into the "anyone could do this" category, if I'm understanding it correctly. NYC could do some more creative things with abandoned subway tunnels or the like that would be more like Ghost Baby and uniquish.

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4 minutes ago, DEPACincy said:


Not a lagering cellar but how about an ice cage? I've actually been to this bar, but I did not partake in the ice cage.

 

http://mehanatanyc.com/ice-cage/

 

 

 

Take up to 5 shots in 2 minutes...isnt the potentially illegal and the bar could be held liable and prosecuted in court if a person becomes drunk and commits a fatal dui?

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23 minutes ago, Robuu said:

The "ice cage" falls into the "anyone could do this" category, if I'm understanding it correctly. NYC could do some more creative things with abandoned subway tunnels or the like that would be more like Ghost Baby and uniquish.

 

Right. I just thought it was really funny. It's a cheap gimmick. 

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23 minutes ago, troeros said:

 

Take up to 5 shots in 2 minutes...isnt the potentially illegal and the bar could be held liable and prosecuted in court if a person becomes drunk and commits a fatal dui?

 

You sign a release. But aside from that, it's on the Lower East Side. No one is driving there.

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Saw this OTR community council agenda and thought some of the items mentioned were interesting. 

 

Does anyone know what the planned business is for 1304 main Street? I believe those are the buildings adjacent to St Mary's that were previously boarded up, but has continuous work being done on them now. 

 

Also it looks like the FCC related Findley market adjacent parking garage is also moving ahead. 

 

I'm curious though, I always hear how a parking garage near Findley market will help elevate that area of OTR. I guess my question is, in what way? 

FB_IMG_1574814768720.jpg

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1 hour ago, troeros said:

I'm curious though, I always hear how a parking garage near Findley market will help elevate that area of OTR. I guess my question is, in what way? 

The area around the Market (frankly anywhere north of Liberty Street) does not have any structured parking. The redevelopment of this area is driving parking scarcity and will only continue as development increases there and on Vine Street north of Liberty. While generally easily accessible via the streetcar from parking garages located in southern OTR and downtown, most office workers, casual visitors, and residents don't use it and want more convenient parking. 

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1 hour ago, taestell said:

OTR Community Council writing a letter in support of something doesn't mean that it's necessarily going to happen. See: Liberty Street Road Diet.

 

No it means that something is being presented and they are giving a letter of support towards the said presentation which I assume is in reference to Hamilton county presenting a parking garage in the Findley market area, which is what Hamilton County had set out to do initially.

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25 minutes ago, troeros said:

 

No it means that something is being presented and they are giving a letter of support towards the said presentation which I assume is in reference to Hamilton county presenting a parking garage in the Findley market area, which is what Hamilton County had set out to do initially.

Stop making up things. Nowhere does it say a specific plan was presented to the Community Council. No public presentation of a county garage has ever been made to the community. If you actually read the letter it is very aspirational and has no actual detail.

 

https://gallery.mailchimp.com/a0d305fdbfaa9bd9b0bf72a30/files/0ed549ce-486d-4fd0-8b1d-2696ba9dac92/P_T_letter_re_parking_garage_FINAL.pdf

 

And it's "FINDLAY". 

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46 minutes ago, mcmicken said:

Stop making up things. Nowhere does it say a specific plan was presented to the Community Council. No public presentation of a county garage has ever been made to the community. If you actually read the letter it is very aspirational and has no actual detail.

 

https://gallery.mailchimp.com/a0d305fdbfaa9bd9b0bf72a30/files/0ed549ce-486d-4fd0-8b1d-2696ba9dac92/P_T_letter_re_parking_garage_FINAL.pdf

 

And it's "FINDLAY". 

 

Hamilton county commissioner was just quoted in the business journal how their goal and expectation is for a Findley market garage. 

 

Isnt hamilton county ultimately in control of the funds they promised FCC Cincinnati for the structured parking portion. 

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52 minutes ago, mcmicken said:

Stop making up things. Nowhere does it say a specific plan was presented to the Community Council. No public presentation of a county garage has ever been made to the community. If you actually read the letter it is very aspirational and has no actual detail.

 

https://gallery.mailchimp.com/a0d305fdbfaa9bd9b0bf72a30/files/0ed549ce-486d-4fd0-8b1d-2696ba9dac92/P_T_letter_re_parking_garage_FINAL.pdf

 

 

 

Has there been any conversation regarding the character of this garage?   Would it be underground and/or incorporated into a development?

 

I continue to be disturbed by the fact that 3CDC has only built two underground garages - each below parks. 

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, jmecklenborg said:

 

Has there been any conversation regarding the character of this garage?   Would it be underground and/or incorporated into a development?

 

I continue to be disturbed by the fact that 3CDC has only built two underground garages - each below parks. 

 

 

 

 

I would hope it's a mixed use garage but I doubt it.

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9 hours ago, mcmicken said:

And it's "FINDLAY". 

 

9 hours ago, troeros said:

 

Hamilton county commissioner was just quoted in the business journal how their goal and expectation is for a Findley market garage. 

 

Are you seriously unable to get this after multiple forumers have pointed it out to you or are you just trolling?

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“All truly great thoughts are conceived while walking.”
-Friedrich Nietzsche

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5 minutes ago, JYP said:

 

 

Are you seriously unable to get this after multiple forumers have pointed it out to you or are you just trolling?

 

Im not in college anymore where I am being graded by my professor on spelling.

 

This is the internet where people post memes of cats and make a million dollars taking half naked selfies on Instagram. Relax, this isn't our corporate office email chain. 

 

 

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11 hours ago, jmecklenborg said:

 

Has there been any conversation regarding the character of this garage?   Would it be underground and/or incorporated into a development?

 

I continue to be disturbed by the fact that 3CDC has only built two underground garages - each below parks. 

 

No details around the character of the proposed garage have been finalized. The letter was simply to voice that the Community Council agrees that having a parking garage near Findlay Market would be good for the neighborhood, and superior to having all parking consolidated at the FCC stadium site. At Monday's OTRCC meeting, the letter passed with overwhelming support (I think there was 1 dissenting vote). Hopefully, the County Commissioners will continue to press for the "multi garage approach".

 

In terms of design, because it's within the OTR Historic District, any new construction would have to go before the Historic Conservation Board. Joe Hansbauer did say that an idea had been proposed for putting some office on top of the parking garage. But nothing has been finalized or confirmed. Personally, I think adding more office space near the market would be good for the neighborhood (increasing business to Findlay Market and helping drive demand for housing), and would be a good way for the County to make more revenue from parking throughout the year. 

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2 hours ago, troeros said:

Im not in college anymore where I am being graded by my professor on spelling.

 

This is the internet where people post memes of cats and make a million dollars taking half naked selfies on Instagram. Relax, this isn't our corporate office email chain. 

 

Repeatedly mis-spelling names is not about "grammar". It's about being respectful to people and organizations. You've been corrected multiple times and continue to write "Findley". You post a lot on this forum, and so it shows you spend a lot of time and energy thinking about these places. Please show some respect by writing "Findlay" correctly. 

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4 minutes ago, jwulsin said:

 

No details around the character of the proposed garage have been finalized. The letter was simply to voice that the Community Council agrees that having a parking garage near Findlay Market would be good for the neighborhood, and superior to having all parking consolidated at the FCC stadium site. At Monday's OTRCC meeting, the letter passed with overwhelming support (I think there was 1 dissenting vote). Hopefully, the County Commissioners will continue to press for the "multi garage approach".

 

In terms of design, because it's within the OTR Historic District, any new construction would have to go before the Historic Conservation Board. Joe Hansbauer did say that an idea had been proposed for putting some office on top of the parking garage. But nothing has been finalized or confirmed. Personally, I think adding more office space near the market would be good for the neighborhood (increasing business to Findlay Market and helping drive demand for housing), and would be a good way for the County to make more revenue from parking throughout the year. 

 

I think a garage for sure would make a lot more money at the Market than at the FCC site throughout the year. I love going to Findlay but this past year holy cow, hard to find any type of parking at all. Normally would park and have to walk 5 blocks or so. Getting some structured parking would really help more businesses for 1 thing, to get those quicker sales by people dropping in quick, and 2, would help stop the creation of MORE surface lots and encourage more development.

 

I don't think 1 garage is going to do it in the Findlay area, they are going to need to build at least 2 (probably with the Freeport Row Project) and then probably need a couple garages on Vine Street over there before enough is built to help with development and induced demand.

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2 hours ago, troeros said:

 

Im not in college anymore where I am being graded by my professor on spelling.

 

This is the internet where people post memes of cats and make a million dollars taking half naked selfies on Instagram. Relax, this isn't our corporate office email chain. 

 

 

 

Troeros I enjoy your posts and think you have a lot of insightful opinions, etc. This isn't the biggest deal in the world but it would be like if I continually called you the wrong name. We are a community here within the greater community so we like our favorite places to be called by and spelled correctly, it's more out of respect for the community, our home which we all share and care and love together, than anything about correcting you on grammar.

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57 minutes ago, jwulsin said:

 

No details around the character of the proposed garage have been finalized. The letter was simply to voice that the Community Council agrees that having a parking garage near Findlay Market would be good for the neighborhood, and superior to having all parking consolidated at the FCC stadium site. At Monday's OTRCC meeting, the letter passed with overwhelming support (I think there was 1 dissenting vote). Hopefully, the County Commissioners will continue to press for the "multi garage approach".

 

In terms of design, because it's within the OTR Historic District, any new construction would have to go before the Historic Conservation Board. Joe Hansbauer did say that an idea had been proposed for putting some office on top of the parking garage. But nothing has been finalized or confirmed. Personally, I think adding more office space near the market would be good for the neighborhood (increasing business to Findlay Market and helping drive demand for housing), and would be a good way for the County to make more revenue from parking throughout the year. 

 

Hopefully the county intends to engage with Joe Hansbauer/Corporation for Findlay Market as a true partner on this project. I think one of the lots on Elder Street between Central Parkway and Elm Street would be the perfect place for a garage that would support both Findlay Market and the stadium. Additionally, this could provided the needed parking for additional development on the remaining lots. I know Model Group wants to build a new apartment building adjacent to the Parkway Towers building (which they also own and plan to renovate), and if the county builds a garage nearby, that could potentially satisfy the parking demand for those residents.

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41 minutes ago, taestell said:

 

Hopefully the county intends to engage with Joe Hansbauer/Corporation for Findlay Market as a true partner on this project. I think one of the lots on Elder Street between Central Parkway and Elm Street would be the perfect place for a garage that would support both Findlay Market and the stadium. Additionally, this could provided the needed parking for additional development on the remaining lots. I know Model Group wants to build a new apartment building adjacent to the Parkway Towers building (which they also own and plan to renovate), and if the county builds a garage nearby, that could potentially satisfy the parking demand for those residents.

 

We are running out of publicly-owned lots and so if building affordable and low-income housing is any sort of goal, these are the places to do it rather than attempt to buy large parcels at market rate or ignore the matter altogether.  I recognize the irony in building housing for people who probably can't afford cars above a public parking garage, but that's where we're at.  

 

I think building a garage similar to the county's circa-1997 garage on Sycamore is a mistake.   There is potential to build a very large underground garage that extends beneath Logan & Elder streets:

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1154783,-84.5210325,3a,75y,174.01h,82.11t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sGZrzFhdlDHqhPBKxuecszQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

 

 

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Underground garages are always preferable but they can cost 2-3 times more.  When the government is paying for it I would always expect them to go the least expensive route.  Not that;s I'd ever expect it to happen but I wish the county would look into an automated below ground parking garage.  They take up a lot less space and can be cheaper then a normal parking garage.  Japan has lots of them due to their lack of space.  

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In a neighborhood with height restrictions, it's easy to see how building an underground garage could be more economical in the long run. It enables building more rentable/marketable space above the garage. Or, as @jmecklenborg said, it enables building affordable/low-income housing on land already publicly-owned.

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6 hours ago, troeros said:

This is the internet where people post memes of cats and make a million dollars taking half naked selfies on Instagram. Relax, this isn't our corporate office email chain. 

 

UrbanOhio is neither a meme hosting platform nor a general purpose social network. It is supposed to be a place where people--whether they be architects, urban planners, transportation professionals, or simply city enthusiasts--can have educated discussions about Ohio's cities and related urban issues. Please be respectful to the other people on this forum who do this stuff for a living or spend their spare time volunteering for their community council or other organizations. Saying "this is just the internet, so who cares" is disrespectful to the many people who do care about having meaningful discussions on this forum.

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On 11/27/2019 at 10:35 PM, troeros said:

 

Im not in college anymore where I am being graded by my professor on spelling.

 

This is the internet where people post memes of cats and make a million dollars taking half naked selfies on Instagram. Relax, this isn't our corporate office email chain. 

 

 

 

You went to college? Perhaps your professor didn’t grade you harshly enough. 

 

If you would like to be taken seriously and have effective communication, things like spelling and grammar matter.  Hence, why no one takes you seriously.  

Edited by jeremyck01
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17 hours ago, jeremyck01 said:

 

You went to college? Perhaps your professor didn’t grade you harshly enough. 

 

For effective communication where you would like people to take you seriously, things like spelling and grammar matter.  Hence, why no one takes you seriously.  

im in deep trouble. their is all ways gamerly

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On 11/28/2019 at 10:10 PM, jeremyck01 said:

 

You went to college? Perhaps your professor didn’t grade you harshly enough. 

 

For effective communication where you would like people to take you seriously, things like spelling and grammar matter.  Hence, why no one takes you seriously.  

 

This quote failed in Grammarly.

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On 11/19/2019 at 8:41 AM, jwulsin said:

 

I stopped by and chatted with the guys doing the site work. They didn't seem to know much about the owner's plans other than wanting to clear the hillside for views. This is in the "Hillside Overlay District", which I would assume places some restrictions on landscaping to minimize erosion/landslides... but not sure which City department ensures this kind of work is performed safely.

 

image.thumb.png.5f6920a7aade7dcbb827fa5a2cd2a776.png

 Currently doing comprehensive alley research, and I didn't know these houses finally changed hands. I'm a bit worried about the viewshed compromising the strength of the hillside. But much of that growth was invasive. 

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Urban Sites has been awarded 1712 Logan Street after the RFP the City issued this past spring. They plan on constructing a mixed use building on the current parking lot.

 

Council will hold an emergency ordinance agenda to approve this transfer along with property tax exemptions associated with this transfer. 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Cincy513 said:

Is that the entire parking lot?  Or just part of it?  Always great to see infills on surface lots.  

 

The entire parking lot. 

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Interesting that Urban Sites and CMHA are partnering on this. I'm curious to hear why that was the case, and what each developer is bringing to the project. 

 

Also, I'm curious how they're handling the parking. It says it'll have 93 spots "at grade and one level below". I'm glad they're putting some of the parking underground, and I just hope that they do a good job with the ground-level design. The designs still have to go through HCB, so the design will get reviewed later. 

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47 minutes ago, jwulsin said:

Interesting that Urban Sites and CMHA are partnering on this. I'm curious to hear why that was the case, and what each developer is bringing to the project. 

 

Also, I'm curious how they're handling the parking. It says it'll have 93 spots "at grade and one level below". I'm glad they're putting some of the parking underground, and I just hope that they do a good job with the ground-level design. The designs still have to go through HCB, so the design will get reviewed later. 

 

This could be a real game changer for north of liberty. This will probably be the largest new construction developement in North of liberty in many, many decades. 

 

I always that the Hamilton county FCC garage would go on that parking lot though? Is their another sizable parking lot that could fit a large garage structure that's adjacent to Findlay Market?

 

Obviously there is the parking lot right behind Findlay Market, but I hope that if the garage goes there there will be mixed use aspects involved. 

 

 

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3 hours ago, troeros said:

 

This could be a real game changer for north of liberty. This will probably be the largest new construction developement in North of liberty in many, many decades. 

 

I always that the Hamilton county FCC garage would go on that parking lot though? Is their another sizable parking lot that could fit a large garage structure that's adjacent to Findlay Market?

 

Obviously there is the parking lot right behind Findlay Market, but I hope that if the garage goes there there will be mixed use aspects involved. 


The County is looking into the option of putting the FCC garage just north of this site, across Elder on the surface parking lots spanning from Central Parkway across Logan all the way to Campbell Alley. A few years ago, Model Group tore down the non-historic “annex” building behind The Globe. Google Maps satellite still shows the old building, but street view shows that it’s now surface parking. 
 

With the 1712 Logan parking lot going away, there will be even more need for structured parking to support Findlay Market and the surrounding area. 

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Well, let’s hope the access/exit is off Campbell alley, which would likely result in the loss of 3-4 spaces to the 80.

 

I’d love to see the little non-contributing blue building between Elm and Campbell replaced with a pedestrian laneway that could connect to a cool, small bar laneway environment in this new development. It could even go all the way through to the Film Center if you can rationalize the floor plates, which I think you can. 

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1 hour ago, jwulsin said:


The County is looking into the option of putting the FCC garage just north of this site, across Elder on the surface parking lots spanning from Central Parkway across Logan all the way to Campbell Alley. A few years ago, Model Group tore down the non-historic “annex” building behind The Globe. Google Maps satellite still shows the old building, but street view shows that it’s now surface parking. 
 

With the 1712 Logan parking lot going away, there will be even more need for structured parking to support Findlay Market and the surrounding area. 

 

20,000 square feet of office space though, plus 66 residential units, plus any of the handful of workers who will be part of the ground floor commercial developement..93 spaces doesn't seem nearly enough when you combine all of these elements..Also, the findlay parking lot is already near max capacity on most days.

 

Model group is adding more and more Businesses/residential around findlay, but nothing in the way of parking. 

 

I just feel like until north of liberty is further cleaned up, it will be a tough sell to tell workers to park on Vine or Walnut in north of liberty...do we end up with a sticky situation of how do you continue stimulating investment without dedicated parking.

 

 

 

 

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I will never complain about a development in downtown not having enough on-site parking.  If the goal is to create the best urban neighborhood it can be, then parking needs to be an afterthought in these developments, not the driving force.  Take the bus, bike, live in OTR, there are options if you want to work there and not deal with the hassle of parking.   No need to cater to people that will live outside the city limits.  We need to push people to use these options if we ever want to reverse the damage that cars have done to our city, that starts with making parking as scarce as we can.

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9 hours ago, troeros said:

I just feel like until north of liberty is further cleaned up, it will be a tough sell to tell workers to park on Vine or Walnut in north of liberty...do we end up with a sticky situation of how do you continue stimulating investment without dedicated parking.

 

No.

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9 hours ago, troeros said:

 

20,000 square feet of office space though, plus 66 residential units, plus any of the handful of workers who will be part of the ground floor commercial developement..93 spaces doesn't seem nearly enough when you combine all of these elements..Also, the findlay parking lot is already near max capacity on most days.

 

Model group is adding more and more Businesses/residential around findlay, but nothing in the way of parking. 

 

I just feel like until north of liberty is further cleaned up, it will be a tough sell to tell workers to park on Vine or Walnut in north of liberty...do we end up with a sticky situation of how do you continue stimulating investment without dedicated parking.

 

 

 

 

 

I think some people need to not get so fed up with the parking details, etc. We all understand, and all want, to not have so much dedicated parking, but it really is necessary at this point in time we are living in. We can't reinvent the wheel and for us to want continued economic growth and development in OTR we need dedicated parking. This was a decision that was forced on us by the state and local governments going back 60 or 70 years so it isn't going to change now. It would be great if we had dedicated light rail connecting uptown to downtown which was fast, frequent, and maybe free, but we don't, so we need dedicated parking in the moment to jump start more development.

 

Troy, I believe you are right and developers know this, there is more dediced parking needed to stimulate more investment. It sounds like this project will take care of itself in the parking aspect which is fine and good to hear, but there will definitely need to be probably at least one or two more garages directly around Findlay Market and for sure another garage on Vine Street somewhere north of Libery to help stimulate that area unless they do one massive one in Findlay playground which is two birds with one stone. I still think they will need to have another parking garage somewhere on Vine North of Liberty, though.

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3 minutes ago, IAGuy39 said:

 

I think some people need to not get so fed up with the parking details, etc. We all understand, and all want, to not have so much dedicated parking, but it really is necessary at this point in time we are living in. We can't reinvent the wheel and for us to want continued economic growth and development in OTR we need dedicated parking. This was a decision that was forced on us by the state and local governments going back 60 or 70 years so it isn't going to change now. It would be great if we had dedicated light rail connecting uptown to downtown which was fast, frequent, and maybe free, but we don't, so we need dedicated parking in the moment to jump start more development.

 

Troy, I believe you are right and developers know this, there is more dediced parking needed to stimulate more investment. It sounds like this project will take care of itself in the parking aspect which is fine and good to hear, but there will definitely need to be probably at least one or two more garages directly around Findlay Market and for sure another garage on Vine Street somewhere north of Libery to help stimulate that area unless they do one massive one in Findlay playground which is two birds with one stone. I still think they will need to have another parking garage somewhere on Vine North of Liberty, though.

 

I just don't understand the kvetching over not having enough parking. If more parking is necessary then developers will build it. If it's not, they won't. It's pretty simple. It seems like developers are starting to realize that you don't need to build so much parking in OTR and downtown. If it becomes an issue then the pendulum will swing back the other way.

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11 hours ago, atlas said:

Well, let’s hope the access/exit is off Campbell alley, which would likely result in the loss of 3-4 spaces to the 80.

 

I’d love to see the little non-contributing blue building between Elm and Campbell replaced with a pedestrian laneway that could connect to a cool, small bar laneway environment in this new development. It could even go all the way through to the Film Center if you can rationalize the floor plates, which I think you can. 

 

That little blue building at 1729 Elm is owned by Model Group. 

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30 minutes ago, DEPACincy said:

 

I just don't understand the kvetching over not having enough parking. If more parking is necessary then developers will build it. If it's not, they won't. It's pretty simple. It seems like developers are starting to realize that you don't need to build so much parking in OTR and downtown. If it becomes an issue then the pendulum will swing back the other way.

 

I don't think there is any kvetching going on.

 

I think it's a fact that developers need to have more dedicated parking to get more projects done that would prove profitable. That's why the county is pushing hard to have one of the garages closer to the Findlay Market instead of one big garage right next to the stadium. Because the developers know and the community knows they need more parking.

 

The good news is that it seems there are more projects going on with low parking or minimum parking. That all said, all the retail and all the people that visit the market and now the surrounding breweries and other destinations need areas to park, and the neighborhood itself does not have enough residents to support all that retail so people need to drive in. It is full now or close to capacity, so we need more parking to keep having economic development in that area. I believe for certain, that is what the market is saying. Otherwise, the OTRCC wouldn't be writing letters in support of more parking needed, especially considering they are the strictest there is about design and walkability.

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37 minutes ago, IAGuy39 said:

 

I don't think there is any kvetching going on.

 

I was referring specifically to people posting on this board. Every time there's a new development there are a handful of posters that chime in with the idea that we are on the verge of a parking crisis. My point is that parking will sort itself out if you let the market handle it.

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Right, what is the point of eliminating parking requirements and allowing developers to build new buildings with no or very little parking, if the government is going to step in and say "we know better than the developers" and build additional parking anyway? Let the free market sort this one out.

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