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Threats To Our Civil Liberties

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4 hours ago, E Rocc said:

 

Leaving aside that I included non-citizens who are here legally, note the word "humane".   No one has a right to be in this nation if they do not meet the criteria we establish.   Which, as a nation, we have the right to establish.

 

Those who advocate de facto "open borders" often try to blur the distinction between those who are here according to our laws, and those here in defiance of same.

 

I think we'll probably have different ideas of what "humane" means. I don't think sending people back into poverty and violence because they don't have paperwork is all that humane.  I never argued against a nation having the right to set the rules.  My argument is, given the discretion we can use with that right, what we choose to do with those people is a direct mirror on who we are as a society. Right now, I'm not impressed. 

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2 hours ago, DarkandStormy said:

 

"No one has a right to be in the nation if they do not meet the criteria the Native Americans establish.  Which, as indigenous people, they have the right to establish."

 

That's a war we won already, both through combat and (mostly) through assimilation.

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1 hour ago, jonoh81 said:

 

I think we'll probably have different ideas of what "humane" means. I don't think sending people back into poverty and violence because they don't have paperwork is all that humane.  I never argued against a nation having the right to set the rules.  My argument is, given the discretion we can use with that right, what we choose to do with those people is a direct mirror on who we are as a society. Right now, I'm not impressed. 

 

The thing is, if we take effective action to decrease the poverty and violence, we get called imperialist.   The paperwork represents a process, and we're not simply talking about not having the paper but having bypassed the entire process.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Foraker said:

 

Agreed.  Only the far left fringe is arguing for open borders, that's not a position being taken by the Democratic Party so we can just put that to the side.

 

But -- the law does not say that you have to stay in a foreign country in order to claim asylum.  And the administration is trying to force asylum-seekers to stay out until their asylum claims are decided, and deporting asylum seekers who came across the border illegally.  And the law (Republicans did control Congress until the end of 2018, and they write the laws) says that when someone requests asylum they are allowed to stay in the US until a decision is made on asylum.  Don't like the law, change it. 

 

Massive amounts of drugs and immigrants are not coming across the border illegally, the vast majority of both are coming across through our legal border entry points.  That is where we need to improve the system.

 

Congress appropriated funds to hire more border inspectors.  The Executive has not hired those inspectors.  Another way to deal with all of the asylum claims is to hire more immigration judges to speed up processing.  Congress appropriated funds to hire over 100 more administrative immigration judges.  The Executive has not hired more judges.  Why? 

 

 

I wish it was just the far left fringe.   Maybe they are the only ones who are honest about it.

 

Parts of the main left are hoping people used to authoritarian governments show up and eventually gain the right to vote, and are amenable to having those votes bought.

 

Business interests that might be considered the "right" are in favor of lots of immigration by people who will work cheap.

 

It's best described as an unholy alliance.   As for the current working class in the southwest, citizen and legal immigrants alike, they are the ones getting effed.   No milder word does it justice.

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17 minutes ago, E Rocc said:

 

That's a war we won already, both through combat and (mostly) through assimilation.

 

So...by this logic...immigrants could come to our country and wage war and if they "win" then they get to decide the rules...


Very Stable Genius

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4 hours ago, jonoh81 said:

 

I think we'll probably have different ideas of what "humane" means. I don't think sending people back into poverty and violence because they don't have paperwork is all that humane.  I never argued against a nation having the right to set the rules.  My argument is, given the discretion we can use with that right, what we choose to do with those people is a direct mirror on who we are as a society. Right now, I'm not impressed. 

 

I think there is something to be said for that. I agree that sending people to be killed in their home country would not be considered humane. However, turning them loose on the streets in the US is also inherently unfair too since they did not go about the process fairly or in the right manner. So that leads to the middle ground over what is a fair and reasonable proposition that most people could coalesce around. I would argue that holding them for hearing until their fete can be justly decided is reasonable. At the same time, dedicate significantly more resources to the border to allow these cases to be heard in a matter of weeks as opposed to months as a start 

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3 hours ago, E Rocc said:

 

I wish it was just the far left fringe.   Maybe they are the only ones who are honest about it.

 

Parts of the main left are hoping people used to authoritarian governments show up and eventually gain the right to vote, and are amenable to having those votes bought.

 

I'm a little confused by this - is there a citation to where you're getting this information?  And what do you mean they're hoping they're amenable to having those votes bought?  Are you insinuating this is how it currently works and they want more people to partake?  If so, would be interested in seeing the source of this info.

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3 hours ago, E Rocc said:

 

The thing is, if we take effective action to decrease the poverty and violence, we get called imperialist.   The paperwork represents a process, and we're not simply talking about not having the paper but having bypassed the entire process.

 

 

Trying to solve every other nation’s problems is a whole different discussion, and the US never does that stuff entirely altruistically, anyway.  Few countries would.  So it’s better to focus on what we can do, which is to create a system that doesn’t turn away decent people who can become net contributors to the country.  The current process doesn’t allow most of them to become legal citizens, so I don’t think it’s just a matter of people trying to bypass the process.

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3 hours ago, E Rocc said:

 

I wish it was just the far left fringe.   Maybe they are the only ones who are honest about it.

 

Parts of the main left are hoping people used to authoritarian governments show up and eventually gain the right to vote, and are amenable to having those votes bought.

 

Business interests that might be considered the "right" are in favor of lots of immigration by people who will work cheap.

 

It's best described as an unholy alliance.   As for the current working class in the southwest, citizen and legal immigrants alike, they are the ones getting effed.   No milder word does it justice.

Americans are also open to authoritarianism.  Look around.

 

And for the record, those aren’t usually strict democracies.  Also, if they’re trying to escape, why would they support the same policies they left behind?

 

You’re just describing problems with existing laws, not with immigrants themselves.  

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"Nearly every problem that we have in the USA -- unaffordable health care, prison overpopulation, hyper militarization, climate change, racism, gun violence, poverty, poor education, urban sprawl and others -- cannot be positively addressed because bribery and conflicts of interest are legal under campaign finance laws which protect the uber-wealthy and the narrow self-interests who grossly benefit from our afflictions."

 

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Actions like this will push thoughtful, tolerant, open-minded people into democratic parts of the country and leave this void of religious zealotry, intolerance, hate and totalitarianism behind....

 

Kentucky teenager takes picture wearing rainbow shirt; school expels her for ‘lifestyle violations’

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/ny-kayla-kenney-birthday-rainbow-cake-shirt-expelled-kentucky-school-20200114-hqfabqeenbedppwks2uxra56ki-story.html


"Nearly every problem that we have in the USA -- unaffordable health care, prison overpopulation, hyper militarization, climate change, racism, gun violence, poverty, poor education, urban sprawl and others -- cannot be positively addressed because bribery and conflicts of interest are legal under campaign finance laws which protect the uber-wealthy and the narrow self-interests who grossly benefit from our afflictions."

 

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12 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

Trump calling on Apple to decrypt phones is a major turd in the 4th Amendment punch bowl

but muh Adam Schiff was mean when he posted call logs with Nunes' number.  

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36 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

Trump calling on Apple to decrypt phones is a major turd in the 4th Amendment punch bowl

 

The DOJ and FBI have been asking Apple (and other phone manufacturers, cloud service providers, etc.) to install a "back door" that allows the government to gain access to encrypted data in cases like this. The problems with this idea should be immediately obvious.

 

Imagine that the US government required that all door locks installed in the US must be unlockable by a master key that is held by the FBI. The FBI promises it will hold the key in a secure facility and only use it to unlock people's doors in the case of terrorism, and never for anything else.

 

The first problem is that if a criminal ever gets their hands on the master key, they now have a single key that can be used to unlock every door in America. Even if the physical key is never stolen, locksmiths will quickly figure out the shape of the master key.

 

The second problem is that the FBI might say they will only use the master key in cases of terrorism, but we all know that it will be a slippery slope where the key is eventually used in other types of crimes. If someone is suspected of leading a drug trafficking ring...use the master key to get into their house. If someone is suspected of possessing child pornography...use the master key.  The general public will be supportive of the FBI using the key in these cases, because the "nothing to hide" argument is widely believed. It's only a matter of time before the key is used for smaller and smaller crimes, and the concept of privacy is completely eroded.

 

These two weaknesses also apply to digital "back doors". If there is a digital key that can be used to unlock any iPhone...bad people will eventually get their hands on that key. And the FBI will use the key to unlock phones in less serious cases over time. They key might get handed over to state and local law enforcement agencies as well (or these agencies might just obtain the key from the bad guys who have cracked it).

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Quote

 

New York Law Enforcement Officials Operate $10 Million Lab Designed to Crack iPhones

 

Vance has been a major critic of Apple and has called on the government to introduce anti-encryption legislation to make it easier for law enforcement officials to get into iPhones needed for criminal investigations. According to Vance, 82 percent of smartphones that come into the unit are locked, and his cybercrime lab can crack "about half." [...]

 

Vance believes that it's "not fair" that Apple and Google can prevent law enforcement officials from accessing smartphones. Vance says that law enforcement is entrusted with a responsibility to "protect the public" but Apple and Google have limited access to information "just because they say so." Vance is of the opinion that there should be a "balance" between protecting user privacy and getting justice for victims of crimes.

 

 

The phrase "anti-encryption legislation" makes me want to beat my head against the wall.

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10 hours ago, taestell said:

 

The phrase "anti-encryption legislation" makes me want to beat my head against the wall.

 

Damned Republ.....oh, yeah.

 

Seriously, just as free speech includes the internet, free religion includes devout Islam and the Flying Spaghetti Monster, and the RKBA includes AR-15s, this is a clear Fourth and Fifth Amendment violation.

 

The good news is it's like anti-physics legislation.

Edited by E Rocc

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On 1/15/2020 at 9:42 AM, taestell said:

These two weaknesses also apply to digital "back doors". If there is a digital key that can be used to unlock any iPhone...bad people will eventually get their hands on that key. And the FBI will use the key to unlock phones in less serious cases over time. They key might get handed over to state and local law enforcement agencies as well (or these agencies might just obtain the key from the bad guys who have cracked it).

 

This.

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2 hours ago, E Rocc said:

Damned Republ.....oh, yeah.

 

It's not a partisan issue to me. The sad thing is that most Americans lack a technical understanding of how encryption works, so they default to looking at the issue through a partisan or patriotic or anti-capitalist lens. They think, "Apple is one of the biggest companies on the planet with billions of dollars in the bank, of course they should crack into the terrorist's iPhone!" They don't understand that it's literally impossible to crack into the iPhone, unless (1.) Apple creates a new, special version of iOS that disables the "erase after 10 incorrect password attempts" setting, which allows law enforcement to keep guessing the password until they get it right; or (2.) Apple breaks its encryption by installing a back door, essentially a "super password" that can be used to unlock any person's iPhone. Both of these options put ordinary (non-terrorist) users at risk and violate their right to security and privacy on devices they own.

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10 minutes ago, taestell said:

 

It's not a partisan issue to me. The sad thing is that most Americans lack a technical understanding of how encryption works, so they default to looking at the issue through a partisan or patriotic or anti-capitalist lens. They think, "Apple is one of the biggest companies on the planet with billions of dollars in the bank, of course they should crack into the terrorist's iPhone!" They don't understand that it's literally impossible to crack into the iPhone, unless (1.) Apple creates a new, special version of iOS that disables the "erase after 10 incorrect password attempts" setting, which allows law enforcement to keep guessing the password until they get it right; or (2.) Apple breaks its encryption by installing a back door, essentially a "super password" that can be used to unlock any person's iPhone. Both of these options put ordinary (non-terrorist) users at risk and violate their right to security and privacy on devices they own.

 

Is it "erase after ten attempts" these days?   The version I have disables it for one minute, with increasing periods of time after each attempt.

 

I pretty much guarantee a "super password" leaks.   Or an app is developed that erases sensitive stuff when it is used.

 

Edited by E Rocc

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16 minutes ago, E Rocc said:

Is it "erase after ten attempts" these days?   The version I have disables it for one minute, with increasing periods of time after each attempt.

 

After several incorrect attempts, it makes you wait for longer periods of time before trying again. I think after the 9th attempt it might make you wait for 5 minutes before trying a 10th time. After the 10th incorrect attempt it will wipe the device.

 

Law enforcement has successfully cracked some iPhones by installing a hacked version of iOS that disables the wait time and erasure. Then they can put the phone into one of their fancy "fake finger" machines that attempts every passcode from 000000 to 999999 until it correctly guesses the right one.

 

16 minutes ago, E Rocc said:

I pretty much guarantee a "super password" leaks.

 

100%. Either law enforcement will leak it or hackers will correctly guess it. The "super password" would have such a huge black market value, hackers will put all of their time and effort into trying to crack it. And they eventually will.

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More information on how law enforcement has "cracked" suspects' iPhones so far:

 

Quote

 

Tools like those from Cellebrite and Grayshift don’t actually break iPhones’ encryption; they guess the password. To do so, they exploit flaws in the software, like Checkm8, to remove the limit of 10 password attempts. (After about 10 failed attempts, an iPhone erases its data.) The tools then use a so-called brute-force attack, which automatically tries thousands of passcodes until one works.

 

That approach means the wild card in the Pensacola case is the length of the suspect’s passcode. If it’s six numbers — the default on iPhones — authorities almost certainly can break it. If it’s longer, it might be impossible.

 

A four-number passcode, the previous default length, would take on average about seven minutes to guess. If it’s six digits, it would take on average about 11 hours. Eight digits: 46 days. Ten digits: 12.5 years.

 

If the passcode uses both numbers and letters, there are far more possible passcodes — and thus cracking it takes much longer. A six-character alphanumeric passcode would take on average 72 years to guess.

 

It takes 80 milliseconds for an iPhone to compute each guess. While that may seem small, consider that software can theoretically try thousands of passcodes a second. With the delay, it can try only about 12 a second.

 

 

So aside from the civil liberties issues around encryption ... make sure you use a strong password! 7 minutes to crack a 4-digit passcode vs. decades to crack a secure password (with a combination of letters, numbers, and special characters, and no plain dictionary words).

 

(via Daring Fireball)

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For ordinary users, you don't necessarily need to go all-in on security and privacy, for the same reason that you don't necessarily need a reinforced steel door with multiple biometric, tumbler, and deadbolt locks on the door of your home.  For most purposes, a 4-digit password is sufficient because that 7-minute brute-force approach is something that most hackers won't commit the resources to do (they're looking for even easier prey ... or bigger payouts, i.e., a more difficult hack against a corporate target that might potentially reveal millions of passwords, not just one, if it succeeds).

 

The more important digital security tip for regular users in ordinary settings is do not use the same password.  That's more analogous to having your house key also start your car and open your safe deposit box.  If a hacker steals my UO password, they don't get access to my bank accounts, my e-mail, my cloud storage, my shopping, etc.

 

Needless to say, for political activists (especially in more repressive countries), federal legislators and judges, corporate executives, and others that have a much bigger target on their back because of their higher individual value, even a 6-digit passcode isn't likely adequate security and most such people will (I certainly hope) have enhanced third-party security on their phones in addition to regular passcodes.

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On 1/15/2020 at 6:42 AM, taestell said:

If there is a digital key that can be used to unlock any iPhone...bad people will eventually get their hands on that key.

 

This reminds me of a recent story...if your good pal Saudi Crown Prince Mohammad bin Salman texts you a link, do not open it. 

 

The nasty spyware likely used to hack Jeff Bezos lets governments secretly access everything in your smartphone, from text messages to the microphone and cameras — here's how it works

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/jeff-bezos-phone-hacked-saudi-crown-prince-mbs-report-explained-2020-1

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^ the courts way of saying "okay, what the police did was wrong and whenever they do this there will be consequences......starting.......now." 

Edited by surfohio

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They keep pushing the limits and no one is pushing back...

 


"Nearly every problem that we have in the USA -- unaffordable health care, prison overpopulation, hyper militarization, climate change, racism, gun violence, poverty, poor education, urban sprawl and others -- cannot be positively addressed because bribery and conflicts of interest are legal under campaign finance laws which protect the uber-wealthy and the narrow self-interests who grossly benefit from our afflictions."

 

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Guess we'll be seeing more pro-GOP, pro-Trump, pro-fascism and pro-Putin algorithms on Twitter....

 

 


"Nearly every problem that we have in the USA -- unaffordable health care, prison overpopulation, hyper militarization, climate change, racism, gun violence, poverty, poor education, urban sprawl and others -- cannot be positively addressed because bribery and conflicts of interest are legal under campaign finance laws which protect the uber-wealthy and the narrow self-interests who grossly benefit from our afflictions."

 

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