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Columbus: Downtown: North Market Tower

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8 minutes ago, DevolsDance said:

Morning everyone, hoping to kick off everyones morning well with this bit of news... Soil sampling is happening at the Market!

Enjoy.

 

IMG_3778.thumb.JPG.7ad0bc648a603e4393740fd3cc27e621.JPG

 

IMG_3775.thumb.JPG.5fd27667903bc1182d6a6147093f6421.JPG

 

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27 minutes ago, DevolsDance said:

Morning everyone, hoping to kick off everyones morning well with this bit of news... Soil sampling is happening at the Market!

Enjoy.

 

IMG_3778.thumb.JPG.7ad0bc648a603e4393740fd3cc27e621.JPG

 

IMG_3775.thumb.JPG.5fd27667903bc1182d6a6147093f6421.JPG

They better watch out for all of those bodies under there!

 

In all seriousness, I’m newer to following this kinda stuff.  Doesn’t soil sampling usually happen before any proposal is made?

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29 minutes ago, TH3BUDDHA said:

In all seriousness, I’m newer to following this kinda stuff.  Doesn’t soil sampling usually happen before any proposal is made?

 

I believe you can have a design proposal prior to but soil sampling would be required before any engineering plans are finalized. Millenial tower also went through rounds of approvals and there has been no soil sampling to my knowledge however if they move forward, I assume we will see in order to make sure any foundation plans are sufficient for the building. 

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On 10/30/2019 at 7:54 AM, DevolsDance said:

Morning everyone, hoping to kick off everyones morning well with this bit of news... Soil sampling is happening at the Market!

Enjoy.

 

IMG_3778.thumb.JPG.7ad0bc648a603e4393740fd3cc27e621.JPG

 

IMG_3775.thumb.JPG.5fd27667903bc1182d6a6147093f6421.JPG

 

Has anyone noticed any further activity at the Market Tower lot since this drilling was going on?

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1 hour ago, cbussoccer said:

 

Has anyone noticed any further activity at the Market Tower lot since this drilling was going on?

 

No. I was just there the other day and all was back to normal. 

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Looks like more soil/geo drilling taking place at the North Market today.  

 

Terracon is the company on site, known for soil borings and geotech laboratory tests needed for foundation prep and engineering. 

Good sign the project is still moving along!

 

IMG_4555.thumb.jpg.7188827a21ba135d6df28af47f921535.jpg

 

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I really hope they break ground on this project by the summertime. Seeing this and the Hilton tower under construction at the same time will be really cool.

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On 2/3/2020 at 2:15 PM, cbussoccer said:

I really hope they break ground on this project by the summertime. Seeing this and the Hilton tower under construction at the same time will be really cool.

Man, this seems like an eternity ago, now.  Should we pretty much assume this project is dead for the time being?

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3 hours ago, TH3BUDDHA said:

Man, this seems like an eternity ago, now.  Should we pretty much assume this project is dead for the time being?

 

Nope, I have some construction connections and they said the project is still slated for a late summer groundbreaking. 

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4 minutes ago, DevolsDance said:

 

Nope, I have some construction connections and they said the project is still slated for a late summer groundbreaking. 

Thanks for the info!  Amazing news.

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So I was asking about Market Tower over in the Hilton 2.0 thread, and it just so happens that the Dispatch just put out an article with some info on it. 

 

https://www.thisweeknews.com/business/20200522/rockbridge-capital-moving-forward-on-new-hotels-despite-pandemic?rssfeed=true&utm_campaign=snd-autopilot

 

How have your two Columbus projects ― the Scioto Peninsula and the North Market ― been affected?

 

 

The projects we’re working on here are meaningful, long-term projects we’re committed to and are moving forward with.

 

We’ve done projects in 38 states and not done one of significance in Columbus, so as we were doing similar projects in other locations and watching Columbus grow, we started to look here locally and had the opportunity to get involved in two great projects.

 

We expect to break ground on the Scioto Peninsula hotel this year. That’s on a different timeline than the North Market project. That won’t break ground until next year. ... You’re looking at anywhere from 18 to 24 months to build the Scioto project, and 24 to 30 months on the North Market.

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41 minutes ago, cbussoccer said:

So I was asking about Market Tower over in the Hilton 2.0 thread, and it just so happens that the Dispatch just put out an article with some info on it. 

 

https://www.thisweeknews.com/business/20200522/rockbridge-capital-moving-forward-on-new-hotels-despite-pandemic?rssfeed=true&utm_campaign=snd-autopilot

 

How have your two Columbus projects ― the Scioto Peninsula and the North Market ― been affected?

 

 

The projects we’re working on here are meaningful, long-term projects we’re committed to and are moving forward with.

 

We’ve done projects in 38 states and not done one of significance in Columbus, so as we were doing similar projects in other locations and watching Columbus grow, we started to look here locally and had the opportunity to get involved in two great projects.

 

We expect to break ground on the Scioto Peninsula hotel this year. That’s on a different timeline than the North Market project. That won’t break ground until next year. ... You’re looking at anywhere from 18 to 24 months to build the Scioto project, and 24 to 30 months on the North Market.

So he doesn't really answer the question.  He gives the current project timelines but doesn't actually say if those timelines have been affected by the virus.  Were those the originally planned timelines or have they been altered?  I know we had heard that the Market could break ground this year, but was that ever publicly official?  I'm not sure.  Maybe they always planned to break ground on the Market Tower next year and nothing has actually changed.  Either way, a bit of a bummer for some of us that are impatient and wanted to see that starting this year.

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On 4/12/2017 at 12:36 PM, ink said:

 

Next steps:

• Public meetings for input from the community. The first one is May 9 with a time and location to be announced in late April.

• The Development Team, North Market and City are targeting September 2017 to finalize the concept following public and merchant input.

• Construction will begin Spring 2018.

• Estimated time of completion Spring 2020.

 

 

 

Not to be too skeptical but this project is giving me SPARC, Millenial, NuCLEus etc al vibes. If I am to understand the article correctly, they won't be starting construction on Market Tower until 2021 now? It also strikes me that the relatively recent proposal for the peninsula would take immediate priority over something in the works for much longer. They still haven't given much in the way for the delays other than 'we want to get it right' and changing the design entirely. I just want them to do something feasible.

 

If Columbus isn't the place for 30 story buildings right now, so be it. Stop waiting around years upon years trying to land the right tenants and build what is feasible. I would have taken a completed 10 story building on that lot today over waiting another year for the possibility of construction. 

 

Don't mind me being a bit salty over further delays. 

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1 minute ago, DTCL11 said:

I would have taken a completed 10 story building on that lot today over waiting another year for the possibility of construction.

I agree with this, but there were others here months ago that thought Columbus was a failure for even building the current version and not going bigger.

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9 minutes ago, DTCL11 said:

 

 

Not to be too skeptical but this project is giving me SPARC, Millenial, NuCLEus etc al vibes. If I am to understand the article correctly, they won't be starting construction on Market Tower until 2021 now? It also strikes me that the relatively recent proposal for the peninsula would take immediate priority over something in the works for much longer. They still haven't given much in the way for the delays other than 'we want to get it right' and changing the design entirely. I just want them to do something feasible.

 

If Columbus isn't the place for 30 story buildings right now, so be it. Stop waiting around years upon years trying to land the right tenants and build what is feasible. I would have taken a completed 10 story building on that lot today over waiting another year for the possibility of construction. 

 

Don't mind me being a bit salty over further delays. 

But, also, even though it seems crazy that such a prime spot hasn't been developed, I wonder if it's taking so long exactly BECAUSE it's such a prime spot.  Right in the heart of tons of other development near the arena and convention center.  I'm wondering if these developers are worried about underdeveloping such an important site that they think might offer a huge payday after a few more years of growth.  Imagine the potential in a few years after Short North and Arena District are fully built out on top of all of the other projects in the near downtown area.  Maybe even a convention center expansion in the works eventually that could allow for a huge build there.  In that case, I could understand how the developer would be kicking themselves for building a 10 story building on the site.

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Not trying to be a jerk, but did you guys read the whole article? I understand being pessimistic, but he stresses that feel it’s important to get a big project done in Columbus. Obviously we will see, and talk is cheap, but they definitely seem committed to it. 

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11 minutes ago, cbussoccer said:

Not trying to be a jerk, but did you guys read the whole article? I understand being pessimistic, but he stresses that feel it’s important to get a big project done in Columbus. Obviously we will see, and talk is cheap, but they definitely seem committed to it. 

"We are actively proceeding with the project, as there is significant market demand for a mixed-use project of this magnitude," Arshot Investment Corp. Principal Bill Schottenstein said in an email. "Columbus is moving beyond the outdated classical commercial building model and towards spaces that promote connectivity and community engagement"

 

That's a quote about Millenial Tower from 2018.  Just saying.  I don't necessarily think this is the same, because of where it's gotten in the process, but you can't really fault @DTCL11 for thinking it feels similar.

Edited by TH3BUDDHA
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8 minutes ago, cbussoccer said:

Not trying to be a jerk, but did you guys read the whole article? I understand being pessimistic, but he stresses that feel it’s important to get a big project done in Columbus. Obviously we will see, and talk is cheap, but they definitely seem committed to it. 

 

Yes we read it. But it reads no more committed than any of the quotes since the design contest was launched in 2016. Every proposal had that same lofty language in it. The announcement stressed how important this project is to the city and how they are going to move to get it done by Spring 2020.... [taps watch]...

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3 minutes ago, TH3BUDDHA said:

"We are actively proceeding with the project, as there is significant market demand for a mixed-use project of this magnitude," Arshot Investment Corp. Principal Bill Schottenstein said in an email. "Columbus is moving beyond the outdated classical commercial building model and towards spaces that promote connectivity and community engagement"

 

That's a quote about Millenial Tower from 2018.  Just saying.

But we are not dealing with Arshot are we?(thank Christ) If this was Arshot then I wouldn't think it would have a chance in hell. But with anyone else, we can remain a bit optimistic I think.

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4 minutes ago, Toddguy said:

But we are not dealing with Arshot are we?(thank Christ) If this was Arshot then I wouldn't think it would have a chance in hell. But with anyone else, we can remain a bit optimistic I think.

Fair point.  Obviously, I'm no expert on this stuff.  I'm a software dev.  I follow Columbus development because I love seeing the growth of Columbus.  Other than that, I'm not connected with the industry at all. I'm familiar with names like Kauffman, Wagenbrenner, Crawford Hoying, NRI simply because I started following this forum.  Don't really know much about Arshot other than the occasional insults on here.  Also don't know much about the one working on this project other than they're big nationally but haven't done anything in Columbus.  So, I'm not sure how optimistic to be.

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Just now, TH3BUDDHA said:

Fair point.  Obviously, I'm no expert on this stuff.  I'm a software dev.  I follow Columbus development because I love seeing the growth of Columbus.  Other than that, I'm not connected with the industry at all. I'm familiar with names like Kauffman, Wagenbrenner, Crawford Hoying, NRI simply because I started following this forum.  Don't really know much about Arshot other than the occasional insults on here.  Also don't know much about the one working on this project other than they're big nationally but haven't done anything in Columbus.  So, I'm not sure how optimistic to be.

Well I am not in the know either, but I am not ready to throw in the towel when we get a bit of good news, especially in the middle of an economic meltdown. Arshot was horrible with Millennial Tower, SPARC,-anything involving any Schottenstein makes me very wary at this point. Wasn't it a Schottenstein who threw the fit over the Central Crossing plan in the areas south of Vine and involving "the triangle"?-another flop proposal.

 

*I am less optimistic about the Scioto Peninsula development right now compared to Market Tower though.

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I'm not willing to throw in the towel just yet and I still think it has a decent chance given its partners, but again, it just follows the patterns of other projects in many other places that don't come through. The list of projects that come to fruition 5 years after announcement, multiple delays, etc jn any city is relatively short. I use Arshot and Stark as local examples but there are plenty more in other places. Additionally, its not like an IBEW site issue where the commission is pushing them back. Where you have that kind of back and forth for years, those projects are more likely to come together but this is getting pushed back and delayed for largely financial reason it seems.  Come winter/early spring, if we aren't seeing solid plans to put shovels in the ground next year, then I'll probably be ready to put a fork in it myself.

 

I will say this. Those who noticed the parking vendor change were correct in assumptions that the market would have only done that if they didn't plan on breaking ground for awhile.

Edited by DTCL11

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5 minutes ago, DTCL11 said:

I'm not willing to throw in the towel just yet and I still think it has a decent chance given its partners, but again, it just follows the patterns of other projects in many other places that don't come through. The list of projects that come to fruition 5 years after announcement, multiple delays, etc jn any city is relatively short. Additionally, its not like an IBEW site issue where the commission is pushing them back. Where you have that kind of back and forth for years, those projects are more likely to come together but this is getting pushed back and delayed for largely financial reason it seems.  Come winter/early spring, if we aren't seeing solid plans to put shovels in the ground next year, then I'll probably be ready to put a fork in it myself.

 

I will say this. Those who noticed the parking vendor change were correct in assumptions that the market would have only done that if they didn't plan on breaking ground for awhile.

Well there is the "Columbus Curse" for anything that is 20 floors or over that you always have to consider. lol   We have not had a single building built over 100 meters in 29 years!   *channeling Jman here*

Edited by Toddguy
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3 minutes ago, GCrites80s said:

^ Jman... where do I remember that name from?

I just know him as a frequent complainer in the Columbus Underground comments section

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17 minutes ago, Toddguy said:

I am less optimistic about the Scioto Peninsula development right now compared to Market Tower though.

Why?  Aren't there already engineering applications filed for the Peninsula?

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11 minutes ago, TH3BUDDHA said:

I just know him as a frequent complainer in the Columbus Underground comments section

 

Yes, that's it. Although I don't hang out in the comments section, I did encounter him back when CU had a forum.

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Yeah, Jman is/way insufferable. I think he's still in the CU comments section.

 

I can't believe this project is falling through. It had so much going for it and was partially funded by the city as well as having a reputable developer. How incredibly disappointing.

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1 hour ago, Zyrokai said:

Yeah, Jman is/way insufferable. I think he's still in the CU comments section.

 

I can't believe this project is falling through. It had so much going for it and was partially funded by the city as well as having a reputable developer. How incredibly disappointing.

It isn’t falling through. They said they are still building it.

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11 hours ago, VintageLife said:

It isn’t falling through. They said they are still building it.

 

Oh...... Maybe I misinterpreted DTCL11's post but when I read it, but it seemed like it wasn't happening anymore.

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The fact is the economic collapse is going to have some collateral damage in terms of projects.  I don't think North Market gets cancelled, but I wouldn't bet against further size reductions.   

 

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7 hours ago, Zyrokai said:

 

Oh...... Maybe I misinterpreted DTCL11's post but when I read it, but it seemed like it wasn't happening anymore.

I think they are just delaying it for a bit, which also isn’t a for sure sign, but the guy said they are still doing. 

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We've heard from Rockbridge. But they are only one piece, no? What about the North Market, the City, the Wood Cos, NBBJ, etc etc (I don't recall all the players)? To my knowledge Rockbridge is going to manage the hotel component. They aren't necessarily the lead developer(s) and I'm not sure what their financial interest is in beyond running the hotel component? I'm not 100% certain on how its all divided up but I would sure feel better if we were hearing from some of the other major players involved. 

 

I may have them confused on the roles and apologize if I do but it just stood out to me that Rockbridge is the point man. 

 

Maybe a media company needs to reach out to the other players and see if the message is consistent. 

Edited by DTCL11

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I had been told the project was still slated to move forward, earlier than Rockbridge is stating. I am curious if it got delayed as a result of the COVID crash or if that is just when things will start going big. I know the project requires some extensive "pre-construction" work due to the cemetery and utilities, and general site constraints. I am gonna check in with some people and see if I can get some updates. 

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5 minutes ago, DevolsDance said:

I had been told the project was still slated to move forward, earlier than Rockbridge is stating. I am curious if it got delayed as a result of the COVID crash or if that is just when things will start going big. I know the project requires some extensive "pre-construction" work due to the cemetery and utilities, and general site constraints. I am gonna check in with some people and see if I can get some updates. 

 

It seems like they may have possibly prioritized the Scioto Peninsula project over Market Tower. This would make sense as it is just one of multiple pieces to that project, all of which needed to be ready to go together. If they didn't prioritize that, they could have missed out on it. Hopefully you can get some solid info for us though.

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On 5/26/2020 at 11:40 AM, DevolsDance said:

I had been told the project was still slated to move forward, earlier than Rockbridge is stating. I am curious if it got delayed as a result of the COVID crash or if that is just when things will start going big. I know the project requires some extensive "pre-construction" work due to the cemetery and utilities, and general site constraints. I am gonna check in with some people and see if I can get some updates. 

Were you able to hear anything more on this?

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On 6/24/2020 at 10:06 PM, TH3BUDDHA said:

Were you able to hear anything more on this?

 

Missed this call out, apologies. 

 

Short story, kind of. Best I could get was that the timeline Rockwell announced does not include the site excavation because that will be handled separately by a company with a background in such things. Sounds like it is maybe both, we will see movement before next summer on the project but we will probably not see foundations and big earth movement until mid 2021.

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6 minutes ago, DevolsDance said:

 

Missed this call out, apologies. 

 

Short story, kind of. Best I could get was that the timeline Rockwell announced does not include the site excavation because that will be handled separately by a company with a background in such things. Sounds like it is maybe both, we will see movement before next summer on the project but we will probably not see foundations and big earth movement until mid 2021.

 

There are some old graves beneath the surface lot, correct? I'm assuming that will result in a great deal of intricate site prep work that will need done. 

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