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Toddguy

Columbus: Downtown: North Market Tower

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The new design looks like it’ll provide a better pedestrian experience, which is a thousand times more impactful on creating an enjoyable, walkable urban area than the height of the building. Obviously I’d rather have this design be 35 stories instead of 26(28?), but the new design is still superior for all purposes of actually interacting with the building. 

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90,000 square feet of office space, but no mention of verified tenants. Are they building spec? If they can get proper financing that way why must Millennial Tower wait?

Edited by aderwent
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1 minute ago, FudgeRounds said:

The new design looks like it’ll provide a better pedestrian experience, which is a thousand times more impactful on creating an enjoyable, walkable urban area than the height of the building. Obviously I’d rather have this design be 35 stories instead of 26(28?), but the new design is still superior for all purposes of actually interacting with the building. 

Completely agree. Plus the huge mix of uses will have hundreds of people on this block 24/7. The one thing I'm curious about is the North Market extension/atrium. If it looks as barren and useless as the bare rendering from October I will be disappointed.

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Awwww...you added the Millennial Tower!  R.I.P. 😞

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"You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers

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58 minutes ago, Gino27 said:

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Here's a really low quality mock up of the skyline after these projects are complete. Scales are definitely way off.

 

You didn't add the new Crew Stadium and related mixed-use development. Unacceptable!

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5 hours ago, Clefan98 said:

26 stories is still meh when compared to the original 35 stories. Especially when you consider the current blah design of the  building. 

 

Incorrect.

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7 hours ago, GCrites80s said:

We are going to have to start handing neckbeards hammers en masse if we don't want to lose height on these projects.

 

When only losing a quarter of the original height is considered a big win, there’s a problem.  

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12 hours ago, jonoh81 said:

 

When only losing a quarter of the original height is considered a big win, there’s a problem.  

I’m pretty sure that overall square footage (and thus DENSITY) has increased from the 35 floor design. If so, then there’s really no honest way to argue the new design is less urban than the old design, which is ultimately more important than height....

Edited by FudgeRounds
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12 minutes ago, FudgeRounds said:

I’m pretty sure that overall square footage (and thus DENSITY) has increased from the 35 floor design. If so, then there’s really no honest way to argue the new design is less urban than the old design, which is ultimately more important than height....

High five to that!  Urbanity and density isn't solely based on height.  Height is great for postcards, density is great for vibrancy.  I think most people are 'in this' for the activity, options, and density it will bring downtown opposed to how pretty it will look on a postcard.  BTW - do people still send postcards?  lol

Edited by Scott Krajeski
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4 minutes ago, Scott Krajeski said:

High five to that!  Urbanity and density isn't solely based on height.  Height is great for postcards, density is great for vibrancy.  I think most people are 'in this' for the activity, options, and density it will bring downtown opposed to how pretty it will look on a postcard.  BTW - do people still send postcards?  lol

 

Whats a postcard? Haha

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So, yes, it dropped 7-9 floors. Who cares?

 

  • It went from +10,000sqft to the North Market to +11,000 sqft.
  • It went from 40,000sqft of office space to 90,000sqft.
  • It went from 200 residential units to 150, but + a 210-room hotel.
  • It went from 130 underground parking spaces to 352 above ground spaces.

 

It also says "Restaurant and bar concepts and indoor and outdoor spaces including a rooftop venue, ground-floor retail and a wellness facility;" Not sure the square footage vs the ~50,000sqft of restaurants and retail initially.

 

Plus, it reads to me if they find a large office tenant the height could still go up to accommodate.

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15 minutes ago, Clefan98 said:

^ 9 floors is a big reduction...You're talking about 120' or so.

 

And what if they don't find a large office tenant?

Why does height matter? If they kept the height and added to the footprint like they did they'd need an additional ~200,000sqft of space used.

 

Considering they more than doubled the initial office space I would say they already have verbal agreements. I'm talking additionally as they said it could still go up pending needing more office space. Sounds to me like 26 floors is the floor here.

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11 minutes ago, Clefan98 said:

^ 9 floors is a big reduction...You're talking about 120' or so.

 

And what if they don't find a large office tenant?

 

I think the office space situation all comes down to how the project is being handled at all levels. 

 

Millennial Tower has reportedly been struggling to fill commercial/office space however, the majority of the project is just spec design and has truly had some of the most ambiguous timelines I've ever seen. North Market Tower seems to be the opposite, much of the space is already planned for specific tenants, comes with built in revenue by nature of being a market extension, and the timelines are becoming much more definite which all make leasing office much easier. Perspective tenants don't tend to like the game of chance, which seems to actually be the game for Arshot, while Wood and Schiff are major players in the city that know people and actually build. 

 

I think if you take these pieces into consideration, the location and existing desirability of the location, and recent reports are showing that that Class A office space vacancy in downtown is hitting new lows and rents are rising to the the $25-$30 SF range, I imagine they will find some office tenant pretty easily. I could be wrong, yes, but personally I think we could see a slight floor count increase and expect a tenant announcement before construction is complete. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, FudgeRounds said:

I’m pretty sure that overall square footage (and thus DENSITY) has increased from the 35 floor design. If so, then there’s really no honest way to argue the new design is less urban than the old design, which is ultimately more important than height....

 

Cool, so HighPoint is like the most urban project Downtown has seen, because it has had the highest density of any project in the last 20 years. 

 

I'm glad everyone's fine with mediocrity.  The design got worse, the height dropped... Columbus has no real vision, IMO.  And if height reductions aren't a big deal, consider all the projects since 2000 that have been proposed around the urban core that saw reductions, the many undersized proposals for the location or projects that were canceled outright due to NIMBYism.  How many more buildings would they have added up to?  I'm comfortable saying that the number is high.  Even if you're all fine with the design- yet another box- the city is still facing a massive housing shortage.  One project won't affect that, but dozens and dozens over the years combined?  I just don't understand why things can't get done the way they should be.  Columbus is not really addressing a single urban issue it has, and sooner or later, that's going to come back to haunt them.

Edited by jonoh81
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^The city has had one building over 300 feet (Miranova at 314") built this century, and that was in 2001.

 

The North Market Tower may or may not cross that threshold (no real details given on height that I've seen, maybe I missed them).  The original design had it at 350+ feet, but with the reduction in floors, it may be around 300 ft.  Both Millennial Tower (should it get built) and the Hilton Tower are pegged for 375-380 feet.

 

20+ years without any real addition to the skyline or height above 300 ft is a long time to go for a city that is "booming" and has a housing shortage.

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Very Stable Genius

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1 hour ago, DarkandStormy said:

^The city has had one building over 300 feet (Miranova at 314") built this century, and that was in 2001.

 

The North Market Tower may or may not cross that threshold (no real details given on height that I've seen, maybe I missed them).  The original design had it at 350+ feet, but with the reduction in floors, it may be around 300 ft.  Both Millennial Tower (should it get built) and the Hilton Tower are pegged for 375-380 feet.

 

20+ years without any real addition to the skyline or height above 300 ft is a long time to go for a city that is "booming" and has a housing shortage.

 

Yep.  But it's not just the height problem, for me.  You can have great urban neighborhoods that aren't especially tall.  I worry more that projects just aren't maximizing their locations or potential.  The project at Gay and High is awful, not only from its size, but design.  There are so many projects like that.  Of course I am happy that we are seeing bigger projects now, as for a long time we couldn't even get past 5-6 stories even Downtown, but there's still a troubling issue where projects are constantly downsizing and getting built on the cheap.  I just don't get it when vacancies are very low and demand is very high.  I know there are issues with construction labor shortages and higher steel prices, but those issues are national and plenty of other cities with far fewer positives are still managing to get bigger, better and a larger quantity of projects financed and built.  There just seems to be specific, local issues at play. 

Edited by jonoh81

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I sure hope they add some good signage at the top or at least some nice uplighting so it could stand out at night. Cincinnati and Cleveland sure do know how to make their skyscrapers look impressive with external lighting.

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