Accents

[tastybunns]

I did a google doc project a little while ago for school proving that languages in big cities across the Great Lakes Basin are evolving. We had to give a 20 minute presentation on a topic related to Language for our senior projects, and here's what I came up with. Hope you guys enjoy, if you have any questions regarding the topic or material, feel free to ask me.

 

Northern Cities Vowel Shift:

 

https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1pJkhbPUEVIE_DuCPa3WB1cBfMDOedm67OpeubrfztdQ/edit?usp=sharing

[David]

I made a thread called "American Regional Dialects" where we spoke extensively about things like the Northern Vowel Shift. Really fascinating subject. It actually seems more pronounced to me in older Clevelanders, though. Clevelanders in their 50s have the thickest accent, IMO. Just as younger people in Appalachia sound less like hillbillies and more standardized than the older people. Maybe it comes from the influence of TV and the internet at a young age. It's always there to an extent, though.

 

A lot of people in Chicago and Detroit have a similar  vowel shift as Clevelanders. Toledo doesn't seem to have it as much. I wonder if they sound like that in Buffalo.

[AmrapinVA]

I made a thread called "American Regional Dialects" where we spoke extensively about things like the Northern Vowel Shift. Really fascinating subject. It actually seems more pronounced to me in older Clevelanders, though. Clevelanders in their 50s have the thickest accent, IMO. Just as younger people in Appalachia sound less like hillbillies and more standardized than the older people. Maybe it comes from the influence of TV and the internet at a young age. It's always there to an extent, though.

 

A lot of people in Chicago and Detroit have a similar  vowel shift as Clevelanders. Toledo doesn't seem to have it as much. I wonder if they sound like that in Buffalo.

 

I think you're making a generalization about the fading of Appalachian accents. I live on the other side of those hills and I can tell you people in Eastern W. Va. and Western Virginia/Maryland have that accent as strong as ever. In fact I'd argue it's gained strength over the last few decades.

 

Agree about the Cleveland accent. I'm 45 and nobody I know from my youth that still lives in C-land has the accent but I can hear it strongly in my parents' voices and their friends. Of course I could be generalizing too.  :)

[Enginerd]

Accents are so fascinating to me. I don’t know if it’s because I grew up in Columbus with the bland “midland,” then moved to Cleveland around age 14...but I can hear myself speaking with a Cleveland accent where most people I ask can’t.

 

Mine isn’t the strongest, but I definitely have it.

[IAGuy39]

I read a really interesting article last night after reading this post about the Cincinnati accent. It was from 1995 but showed in the older generations then (40 and Up I believe) had a very distinct Cincinnati metro accent which was most similar to New York City and Philadelphia, but it was closer to NYC than anywhere else.  It didn't even reach to Dayton though, where it quickly changed to Midland's / Columbus like accent, where then that accent changed to the Northern City Vowel Shift which Tastybunns did his project on.

 

It showed though in Cincinnati that the accent was fading quickly to the western like accent in the younger generations, which was wider spread in the region, so there may not be much of that left.  I thought it was really interesting.

 

http://www.academia.edu/7747051/Strassel_and_Boberg_1996_PWPL_paper_on_reversal_of_a_sound_change_in_Cincinnati

[AmrapinVA]

I read a really interesting article last night after reading this post about the Cincinnati accent. It was from 1995 but showed in the older generations then (40 and Up I believe) had a very distinct Cincinnati metro accent which was most similar to New York City and Philadelphia, but it was closer to NYC than anywhere else.  It didn't even reach to Dayton though, where it quickly changed to Midland's / Columbus like accent, where then that accent changed to the Northern City Vowel Shift which Tastybunns did his project on.

 

It showed though in Cincinnati that the accent was fading quickly to the western like accent in the younger generations, which was wider spread in the region, so there may not be much of that left.  I thought it was really interesting.

 

http://www.academia.edu/7747051/Strassel_and_Boberg_1996_PWPL_paper_on_reversal_of_a_sound_change_in_Cincinnati

 

Philly and NYC have similar accents? The NYC area has accents within accents...people from North Jersey sound different than people from Long Island. Suffolk Long Islanders sound different than those closer to Queens/Nassau. Philly also has different accents..South Jersey people sound different than those living in Bucks and up towards Allentown.

 

Also, I've never met anyone from Cincy who sounded like a New Yorker either. Some sounded more Southern to me like the Central Virginia/Richmond accent.

 

Columbus has a flat accent. So does the Norfolk/Virginia Beach area despite being in the South. I do wonder if that has to do with the amount of military transplants living there.

[bumsquare]

I read a really interesting article last night after reading this post about the Cincinnati accent. It was from 1995 but showed in the older generations then (40 and Up I believe) had a very distinct Cincinnati metro accent which was most similar to New York City and Philadelphia, but it was closer to NYC than anywhere else.  It didn't even reach to Dayton though, where it quickly changed to Midland's / Columbus like accent, where then that accent changed to the Northern City Vowel Shift which Tastybunns did his project on.

 

It showed though in Cincinnati that the accent was fading quickly to the western like accent in the younger generations, which was wider spread in the region, so there may not be much of that left.  I thought it was really interesting.

 

http://www.academia.edu/7747051/Strassel_and_Boberg_1996_PWPL_paper_on_reversal_of_a_sound_change_in_Cincinnati

 

Philly and NYC have similar accents? The NYC area has accents within accents...people from North Jersey sound different than people from Long Island. Suffolk Long Islanders sound different than those closer to Queens/Nassau. Philly also has different accents..South Jersey people sound different than those living in Bucks and up towards Allentown.

 

Also, I've never met anyone from Cincy who sounded like a New Yorker either. Some sounded more Southern to me like the Central Virginia/Richmond accent.

 

Philly accent is very similar to Baltimore

[GCrites]

I read a really interesting article last night after reading this post about the Cincinnati accent. It was from 1995 but showed in the older generations then (40 and Up I believe) had a very distinct Cincinnati metro accent which was most similar to New York City and Philadelphia, but it was closer to NYC than anywhere else.  It didn't even reach to Dayton though, where it quickly changed to Midland's / Columbus like accent, where then that accent changed to the Northern City Vowel Shift which Tastybunns did his project on.

 

It showed though in Cincinnati that the accent was fading quickly to the western like accent in the younger generations, which was wider spread in the region, so there may not be much of that left.  I thought it was really interesting.

 

http://www.academia.edu/7747051/Strassel_and_Boberg_1996_PWPL_paper_on_reversal_of_a_sound_change_in_Cincinnati

 

I knew a guy from the West Side who had the NYC-style accent. He'd be about 35 now.

[Robuu]

Philly and NYC have similar accents? The NYC area has accents within accents...people from North Jersey sound different than people from Long Island. Suffolk Long Islanders sound different than those closer to Queens/Nassau. Philly also has different accents..South Jersey people sound different than those living in Bucks and up towards Allentown.

 

Also, I've never met anyone from Cincy who sounded like a New Yorker either. Some sounded more Southern to me like the Central Virginia/Richmond accent.

 

Columbus has a flat accent. So does the Norfolk/Virginia Beach area despite being in the South. I do wonder if that has to do with the amount of military transplants living there.

 

"Most similar" and "closest to" mean something quite different from "sounds like."

 

The Appalachian ("southern" as you call it) influence in Cincinnatians' speech is a mid-20th Century phenomenon, as it was the Great Depression that really kicked off job migration from Appalachia. Cincinnati's original cultural and linguistic development was independent from areas in proximity because Cincinnati was a booming bubble of civilization in the middle of nowhere. Many of the early settlers and their families were from northern New Jersey, which would likely explain the similarities to the NYC accent.

[David]

How in the world is there a Cincinnati accent that sounds similar to NYers? Cincinnatians just sound midland to me with maybe a bit of a twang. They sometimes pronounce their As as Es. Nothing NY about that.

[freefourur]

I always felt Cincinnati has a toned down southern/appalachian accent.  While Cleveland has a toned down midwest/Chicago type thing.  although, when I was in Atlantic City once and yakking it up at the blackjack table, i was asked if I was from Philly.

[mu2010]

Have you guys noticed people from rural and Central Ohio pronouncing the word "cash" like "caish?" I've also heard it in some people pronouncing Ashland, Ohio as Aishland, Ohio.

[freefourur]

where does warsh for wash come from?  I associate it with appalachia but I've heard it around Cleveland a lot.

[mu2010]

Warsh comes from everywhere. Off the top of my head I think I've read that it's a German-American thing, present anywhere that had lots of German-Americans... could be wrong though.

 

Not sure about that German thing. Warsh is found from Pennsylvania and West Virginia all the way out to the Great Plains, though.

[AmrapinVA]

Philly and NYC have similar accents? The NYC area has accents within accents...people from North Jersey sound different than people from Long Island. Suffolk Long Islanders sound different than those closer to Queens/Nassau. Philly also has different accents..South Jersey people sound different than those living in Bucks and up towards Allentown.

 

Also, I've never met anyone from Cincy who sounded like a New Yorker either. Some sounded more Southern to me like the Central Virginia/Richmond accent.

 

Columbus has a flat accent. So does the Norfolk/Virginia Beach area despite being in the South. I do wonder if that has to do with the amount of military transplants living there.

 

"Most similar" and "closest to" mean something quite different from "sounds like."

 

The Appalachian ("southern" as you call it) influence in Cincinnatians' speech is a mid-20th Century phenomenon, as it was the Great Depression that really kicked off job migration from Appalachia. Cincinnati's original cultural and linguistic development was independent from areas in proximity because Cincinnati was a booming bubble of civilization in the middle of nowhere. Many of the early settlers and their families were from northern New Jersey, which would likely explain the similarities to the NYC accent.

 

No Southern is very different from Appalachian. Richmond and Roanoke denizens are only 150 miles apart but their accents are quite distinct.

 

I'm saying I've never met anyone from Cincinnati with a NYC or NJ accent. Some sound more like "gentile" South , even then not a strong as Richmond or Raleigh. Some sound like C-bus..just flat. Just my experience...maybe I didn't know the right people.  ;)

 

Warsh comes from everywhere. Off the top of my head I think I've read that it's a German-American thing, present anywhere that had lots of German-Americans... could be wrong though.

 

Not sure about that German thing. Warsh is found from Pennsylvania and West Virginia all the way out to the Great Plains, though.

 

People say warsh in Baltimore too.

[David]

Have you guys noticed people from rural and Central Ohio pronouncing the word "cash" like "caish?" I've also heard it in some people pronouncing Ashland, Ohio as Aishland, Ohio.

 

Hehe. Yeah! I heard that in Columbus a lot. Mostly from older, second-generation hillbillies, I think.  They seem to be the  same people who say "worsh" instead of wash.

 

It's interesting because they don't say it like that, with other words that rhyme with cash. They wouldn't say stash, hash, or flash like that.

 

In Cleveland, people would be likely to say "cyash."

 

I love that we live in a state with so many different accents.

 

I was just in Wilmington and I interacted with a lot of people. They have a really charming accent. It sounds southern but sophisticated. It's really pleasant to listen to.

 

 

[David]

where does warsh for wash come from?  I associate it with appalachia but I've heard it around Cleveland a lot.

 

You hear older Appalachian people say that a lot but it's not really an Appalachian thing. They've been known to say that as far away as the Pacific Northwest. It's just a remnant of the past that stuck around in some areas longer than others. Appalachians refuse to assimilate so their speech is going to sound more antiquated than in other areas. Unnecessary Rs are/were more of an English thing than a Scot-Irish thing (despite the English non-rhotic tendencies) so I doubt it has anything to do with Appalachia.

 

My great grandma used to say that before she died. We used to always make fun of how she talked. She'd say things like "Yinz" instead of "you guys" or "you all"/"Y'all."

 

From what I've learned, she basically spoke Pittsburghese but she was a country bumpkin who grew up in a log cabin near Portsmouth before moving to the big city of Columbus. Absolutely a hillbilly.

[Guest jmecklenborg]

I read a really interesting article last night after reading this post about the Cincinnati accent. It was from 1995 but showed in the older generations then (40 and Up I believe) had a very distinct Cincinnati metro accent which was most similar to New York City and Philadelphia, but it was closer to NYC than anywhere else.

 

There are three different distinct accents to be heard from native Cincinnatians.

 

1. The sort-of New York accent, which is heard mostly by German descendants.

2. The Italian accent, which is very similar to the Italian Philadelphia accent.

3. The Pete Rose accent. 

 

 

I have some recordings of my grandfather the German "new York" accent but my grandmother is still alive and might have an even stronger example of it.  One thing I picked up from them that I can't shake is saying "fowth" instead of "forth".  This applies both to the number four and to the phrase "and so fowth". 

 

I have video tape from the 90s (I was screwing around with a camcorder) of some Italian guys I knew from the west side.  Their accents were hilarious.

 

The Pete Rose accent is very rare.  I only know a few guys besides Pete that have it.  Amazingly, someone with this accent (who is younger than me) is now a public figure in Cincinnati -- Rocky Boimann on 700WLW.  What's also hilarious is that there was a wave of people naming their sons Rocky on the west side.  I don't know if it coincided with the movies or what. 

 

 

[IAGuy39]

How in the world is there a Cincinnati accent that sounds similar to NYers? Cincinnatians just sound midland to me with maybe a bit of a twang. They sometimes pronounce their As as Es. Nothing NY about that.

 

Yeah in that study it was from 1995 and said the older generation of Cincinnatians (50 or older at that time, so 70 or older now), had tense "a" after certain letters in certain phrases.  It then said the next generation (30-50 years old at that time, so 50-70 years old now) had about 50/50 tense "a" after certain letters in certain phrases.  Next, the younger generation (18-30 years old at that time, so 38-50 years old now) had mostly lost the tense "a" after certain letters and certain phrases that made it very similar to how NYC pronunciates "a" after certain letters and certain phrases.

 

So basically, that is all but gone from the Cincinnati metro except for folks 70 or older.  But like someone else said, it didn't mean they sounded like NY'ers, just that they annunciated very similar to how NY'ers do.

[IAGuy39]

I read a really interesting article last night after reading this post about the Cincinnati accent. It was from 1995 but showed in the older generations then (40 and Up I believe) had a very distinct Cincinnati metro accent which was most similar to New York City and Philadelphia, but it was closer to NYC than anywhere else.

 

There are three different distinct accents to be heard from native Cincinnatians.

 

1. The sort-of New York accent, which is heard mostly by German descendants.

2. The Italian accent, which is very similar to the Italian Philadelphia accent.

3. The Pete Rose accent. 

 

 

I have some recordings of my grandfather the German "new York" accent but my grandmother is still alive and might have an even stronger example of it.  One thing I picked up from them that I can't shake is saying "fowth" instead of "forth".  This applies both to the number four and to the phrase "and so fowth". 

 

I have video tape from the 90s (I was screwing around with a camcorder) of some Italian guys I knew from the west side.  Their accents were hilarious.

 

The Pete Rose accent is very rare.  I only know a few guys besides Pete that have it.  Amazingly, someone with this accent (who is younger than me) is now a public figure in Cincinnati -- Rocky Boimann on 700WLW.  What's also hilarious is that there was a wave of people naming their sons Rocky on the west side.  I don't know if it coincided with the movies or what. 

 

 

 

Interesting you say that because that is what the study showed was that the younger generation on the west side of Cincinnati still had the NY annunciation but the rest of the respondents who weren't from the west side didn't have it anymore.  They also attributed that to the German ancestry of immigrants who originally populated Cincinnati from those regions.

[David]

I read a really interesting article last night after reading this post about the Cincinnati accent. It was from 1995 but showed in the older generations then (40 and Up I believe) had a very distinct Cincinnati metro accent which was most similar to New York City and Philadelphia, but it was closer to NYC than anywhere else.

 

There are three different distinct accents to be heard from native Cincinnatians.

 

1. The sort-of New York accent, which is heard mostly by German descendants.

2. The Italian accent, which is very similar to the Italian Philadelphia accent.

3. The Pete Rose accent. 

 

 

I have some recordings of my grandfather the German "new York" accent but my grandmother is still alive and might have an even stronger example of it.  One thing I picked up from them that I can't shake is saying "fowth" instead of "forth".  This applies both to the number four and to the phrase "and so fowth". 

 

I have video tape from the 90s (I was screwing around with a camcorder) of some Italian guys I knew from the west side.  Their accents were hilarious.

 

The Pete Rose accent is very rare.  I only know a few guys besides Pete that have it.  Amazingly, someone with this accent (who is younger than me) is now a public figure in Cincinnati -- Rocky Boimann on 700WLW.  What's also hilarious is that there was a wave of people naming their sons Rocky on the west side.  I don't know if it coincided with the movies or what. 

 

 

 

Where are you guys getting this NY thing from? Can someone show me a YouTube video or something? I lived in Cincinnati for a long time and I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Is it more prevalent on the east or west side?

 

Pete Rose probably just sounds like a hillbilly and maybe even sounds like the oldest wigger judging on the fact that he wears those big MLB hats.

 

There aren't that many Italians in Cincinnati. If there were, people wouldn't refer to them as "Eye-Talians."

[David]

One thing I picked up from them that I can't shake is saying "fowth" instead of "forth".  This applies both to the number four and to the phrase "and so fowth". 

 

What? You talk like that? In all my years there, I've never encountered a Cincinnatian do such a thing. Granted I was much less attuned to linguistics back then but I think I would have noticed something so weird.

[AmrapinVA]

 

There aren't that many Italians in Cincinnati. If there were, people wouldn't refer to them as "Eye-Talians."

 

Hahahah! Definitely not NYC there.  ;D

[IAGuy39]

I read a really interesting article last night after reading this post about the Cincinnati accent. It was from 1995 but showed in the older generations then (40 and Up I believe) had a very distinct Cincinnati metro accent which was most similar to New York City and Philadelphia, but it was closer to NYC than anywhere else.

 

There are three different distinct accents to be heard from native Cincinnatians.

 

1. The sort-of New York accent, which is heard mostly by German descendants.

2. The Italian accent, which is very similar to the Italian Philadelphia accent.

3. The Pete Rose accent. 

 

 

I have some recordings of my grandfather the German "new York" accent but my grandmother is still alive and might have an even stronger example of it.  One thing I picked up from them that I can't shake is saying "fowth" instead of "forth".  This applies both to the number four and to the phrase "and so fowth". 

 

I have video tape from the 90s (I was screwing around with a camcorder) of some Italian guys I knew from the west side.  Their accents were hilarious.

 

The Pete Rose accent is very rare.  I only know a few guys besides Pete that have it.  Amazingly, someone with this accent (who is younger than me) is now a public figure in Cincinnati -- Rocky Boimann on 700WLW.  What's also hilarious is that there was a wave of people naming their sons Rocky on the west side.  I don't know if it coincided with the movies or what. 

 

 

 

Where are you guys getting this NY thing from? Can someone show me a YouTube video or something? I lived in Cincinnati for a long time and I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Is it more prevalent on the east or west side?

 

Pete Rose probably just sounds like a hillbilly and maybe even sounds like the oldest wigger judging on the fact that he wears those big MLB hats.

 

There aren't that many Italians in Cincinnati. If there were, people wouldn't refer to them as "Eye-Talians."

 

I linked the study upthread and already kind of summarized it earlier but you can read through it if you want: http://www.academia.edu/7747051/Strassel_and_Boberg_1996_PWPL_paper_on_reversal_of_a_sound_change_in_Cincinnati

[Mildtraumatic]

Come think of it I did know someone born and raised in Cincinnati that had a slight East Coast accent. It reminded me of a guy I use to know from Pittsburgh accent.

[edale]

I also find the topics of accents to be very interesting. There is definitely a Cincinnati accent, though I really only noticed it with West Siders and far East Siders (like Anderson/Mt. Washington and beyond). I don't really hear any sort of New York accent in it, but definitely Philadelphia. You hear it mostly on As and Os. Really hard to describe through text, though. This guy from Channel 5 has the thickest Cincy accent I know about in media. Just go to Youtube and type in Brian Hamrick, and you'll get plenty of videos with him speaking. Here's one:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nt_vfdqovII

 

There is also a bit of a southern or Appalachian twang noticeable in much of Cincy too, which makes sense given the proximity to Kentucky and all the Appalachians that migrated to Cincinnati over the years. People definitely pick up linguistic traits of other groups that live in regions, even if they are not from that group, so that makes sense to me. I have an African American friend who moved to Cincinnati from the Toledo area, and he said that Cincinnati's black population has a very distinct and southern inspired accent, but also almost a sub-regional dialect with unique words, terms, and phrasing. 

 

Have you guys noticed people from rural and Central Ohio pronouncing the word "cash" like "caish?" I've also heard it in some people pronouncing Ashland, Ohio as Aishland, Ohio.

 

Yes! The lotto commercial always bothered me so much for this reason. "Catch caish explosion Saturday nights!"

[David]

That's what I was going to say. Cincinnatians are going to speak more closely to Pittsburghese than anything.

 

There's all kinds of influence from everywhere in Cincy but I really think they're fooling themselves by thinking they sound like New Yorkers. It sounds like they just want to believe that they have a 'big city' accent. Except that they absolutely do not. The Cincinnati accent is more country bumpkin than big city.

[IAGuy39]

That's what I was going to say. Cincinnatians are going to speak more closely to Pittsburghese than anything.

 

There's all kinds of influence from everywhere in Cincy but I really think they're fooling themselves by thinking they sound like New Yorkers. It sounds like they just want to believe that they have a 'big city' accent. Except that they absolutely do not. The Cincinnati accent is more country bumpkin than big city.

 

David, I don't think you are understanding what I was saying, no one ever said Cincinnatians soudned like New Yorkers to to speak, it was based off an academic study done in 1995, I already linked it twice, you can read it yourself here! http://www.academia.edu/7747051/Strassel_and_Boberg_1996_PWPL_paper_on_reversal_of_a_sound_change_in_Cincinnati

[edale]

That's what I was going to say. Cincinnatians are going to speak more closely to Pittsburghese than anything.

 

There's all kinds of influence from everywhere in Cincy but I really think they're fooling themselves by thinking they sound like New Yorkers. It sounds like they just want to believe that they have a 'big city' accent. Except that they absolutely do not. The Cincinnati accent is more country bumpkin than big city.

 

Uh, have you ever actually heard a strong Pittsburgh accent? It's nothing like the one you can find in Cincy. It sounds like your impression of the Cincy accent is the more Appalachian variety, which certainly is understandable if you spent much of your time in Lower or East Price Hill, or one of the other Appalachian strongholds. Pittsburghers say things like dawntawn for downtown. "Let's go dawntawn to watch the Stillers beat the Brawns". They also say yinz a lot, which my grandma from Eastern Ohio also said, but I've literally never, ever heard in Cincy.

[David]

That's what I was going to say. Cincinnatians are going to speak more closely to Pittsburghese than anything.

 

There's all kinds of influence from everywhere in Cincy but I really think they're fooling themselves by thinking they sound like New Yorkers. It sounds like they just want to believe that they have a 'big city' accent. Except that they absolutely do not. The Cincinnati accent is more country bumpkin than big city.

 

David, I don't think you are understanding what I was saying, no one ever said Cincinnatians soudned like New Yorkers to to speak, it was based off an academic study done in 1995, I already linked it twice, you can read it yourself here! http://www.academia.edu/7747051/Strassel_and_Boberg_1996_PWPL_paper_on_reversal_of_a_sound_change_in_Cincinnati

 

I don't care about an academic study. I lived in Cincinnati for a long time and interacted with hundreds or thousands of people on the east, west and north side. I've been to NY several times. No one in Cincinnati sounds like a NYer. That just sounds totally ridiculous to me.

 

People in Cleveland sound much more east-coast.

 

What's crazy about Cincinnati is that the Black people sound southern as hell. Like they're from the deep south. Straight out of the Bayou.

[Guest jmecklenborg]

Most people with a Cincinnati accent have been here 100+ years so they have more money and don't work at gas stations, Wal-Mart, and the places where newcomers to the city get the idea that everyone in Cincinnati is a hillbilly. 

 

 

[AmrapinVA]

Most people with a Cincinnati accent have been here 100+ years so they have more money and don't work at gas stations, Wal-Mart, and the places where newcomers to the city get the idea that everyone in Cincinnati is a hillbilly.

 

I thought Clevelanders were defensive! Wow.

[mu2010]

The Cincy accent is hard to pin down. I'm from Northeast Ohio, went to college at Miami and met a lot of Cincy kids, including befriending a bunch of Catholic school west siders, pretty much the most quintessential Cincinnatians out there. I feel like if I met somebody from there I'd be able to tell they were from there but I couldn't tell you what they actually did that made me recognize it. I used to think they said their A's weird, as in "I'm from Cincinnahhhhhti..." but that's probably more a reflection of how we say our a's up here-- "You're from Cincinnyaaaaaaati."

[IAGuy39]

I don't care about an academic study. I lived in Cincinnati for a long time and interacted with hundreds or thousands of people on the east, west and north side. I've been to NY several times. No one in Cincinnati sounds like a NYer. That just sounds totally ridiculous to me.

 

Yes well maybe if you read it and also the explanation I gave you would see that it stated it was dying out by 1995 and hardly existant in the younger generation of that time which was 1995, so only now people that are 70 years or older have it.  So you can dismiss a published academic research paper by the leading linguistic school and research team in America if you want, or just realize you are arguing with something imaginary because you aren't understanding what we were talking about?

 

And also it wasn't saying that Cincinnatians have the same accent that NY'ers have, it said they had the most similar annunciation of NY'ers out of any metro in the USA, and if you read the study you can see the results yourself, and also see that in 1995 only 2 of 16 subjects aged 18-30 had that, 50% of subjects 30-50 had it, and 100% of subjects had it that were 50 or older.  That makes them all 38-50 (only 2 of 16 have it), 50-70 (50% have it), and 70 and older (100% have it), that are living now.

[Robuu]

Also, I've never met anyone from Cincy who sounded like a New Yorker either.

 

Neither have I, but like I said, the relationship we were talking about doesn't mean "sounds like" but more "shares the most features with." I've known a number of old-timer Cincy folks who, for example, will say something like "fawther" for "father." This is definitely something done in the NYC/NJ area. Perhaps also in Boston, Philly, or Baltimore; not sure. But I don't think it occurs anywhere off the eastern seaboard except Cincinnati. This is, for sure, disappearing, though.

[AmrapinVA]

I don't care about an academic study. I lived in Cincinnati for a long time and interacted with hundreds or thousands of people on the east, west and north side. I've been to NY several times. No one in Cincinnati sounds like a NYer. That just sounds totally ridiculous to me.

 

Yes well maybe if you read it and also the explanation I gave you would see that it stated it was dying out by 1995 and hardly existant in the younger generation of that time which was 1995, so only now people that are 70 years or older have it.  So you can dismiss a published academic research paper by the leading linguistic school and research team in America if you want, or just realize you are arguing with something imaginary because you aren't understanding what we were talking about?

 

And also it wasn't saying that Cincinnatians have the same accent that NY'ers have, it said they had the most similar annunciation of NY'ers out of any metro in the USA, and if you read the study you can see the results yourself, and also see that in 1995 only 2 of 16 subjects aged 18-30 had that, 50% of subjects 30-50 had it, and 100% of subjects had it that were 50 or older.  That makes them all 38-50 (only 2 of 16 have it), 50-70 (50% have it), and 70 and older (100% have it), that are living now.

 

If it was as prevalent as the study suggested: Why did it die.

 

For example: I have Taiwanese-American friend who was raised in Taipei then in Kew Gardens, Queens. If I blindfolded you and had her speak English you'd swear she was a fourth or fifth generation NYer. So why is there no more of this NY accent in Cincy?

 

Also, I've never met anyone from Cincy who sounded like a New Yorker either.

 

Neither have I, but like I said, the relationship we were talking about doesn't mean "sounds like" but more "shares the most features with." I've known a number of old-timer Cincy folks who, for example, will say something like "fawther" for "father." This is definitely something done in the NYC/NJ area. Perhaps also in Boston, Philly, or Baltimore; not sure. But I don't think it occurs anywhere off the eastern seaboard except Cincinnati. This is, for sure, disappearing, though.

 

It's gone..so it's kind of a moot point anyway.

[edale]

"You're from Cincinnyaaaaaaati."

 

That's it! Also noticeable on O sounds, sometimes. Tony = Tehohnee ...something like that. It's really tough to spell out these accented words!

[David]

Most people with a Cincinnati accent have been here 100+ years so they have more money and don't work at gas stations, Wal-Mart, and the places where newcomers to the city get the idea that everyone in Cincinnati is a hillbilly. 

 

 

 

Wow, so much shade thrown in that statement.

[mu2010]

I've known a number of old-timer Cincy folks who, for example, will say something like "fawther" for "father." This is definitely something done in the NYC/NJ area.

 

Watch this video, it addresses the pronunciation of "coffee" by NYers:

 

[IAGuy39]

I don't care about an academic study. I lived in Cincinnati for a long time and interacted with hundreds or thousands of people on the east, west and north side. I've been to NY several times. No one in Cincinnati sounds like a NYer. That just sounds totally ridiculous to me.

 

Yes well maybe if you read it and also the explanation I gave you would see that it stated it was dying out by 1995 and hardly existant in the younger generation of that time which was 1995, so only now people that are 70 years or older have it.  So you can dismiss a published academic research paper by the leading linguistic school and research team in America if you want, or just realize you are arguing with something imaginary because you aren't understanding what we were talking about?

 

And also it wasn't saying that Cincinnatians have the same accent that NY'ers have, it said they had the most similar annunciation of NY'ers out of any metro in the USA, and if you read the study you can see the results yourself, and also see that in 1995 only 2 of 16 subjects aged 18-30 had that, 50% of subjects 30-50 had it, and 100% of subjects had it that were 50 or older.  That makes them all 38-50 (only 2 of 16 have it), 50-70 (50% have it), and 70 and older (100% have it), that are living now.

 

If it was as prevalent as the study suggested: Why did it die.

 

For example: I have Taiwanese-American friend who was raised in Taipei then in Kew Gardens, Queens. If I blindfolded you and had her speak English you'd swear she was a fourth or fifth generation NYer. So why is there no more of this NY accent in Cincy?

 

Well, if you read the study, you can see what the researchers said the reason for it was, otherwise I am simply copying what was already in there for you to read freely.

 

But basically, overtime, immigration from the applachian south, black south, and immigration from business, etc. has crowded it out and it has followed what many other regions were seeing at that time which was a westernization of dialects.

[Robuu]

^^ Having listened to that video now, I'm also reminded that I know older Cincinnatians who say "yuge".

[YABO713]

Great Lakes Basin dialect explained in 30 seconds

[AmrapinVA]

I don't care about an academic study. I lived in Cincinnati for a long time and interacted with hundreds or thousands of people on the east, west and north side. I've been to NY several times. No one in Cincinnati sounds like a NYer. That just sounds totally ridiculous to me.

 

Yes well maybe if you read it and also the explanation I gave you would see that it stated it was dying out by 1995 and hardly existant in the younger generation of that time which was 1995, so only now people that are 70 years or older have it.  So you can dismiss a published academic research paper by the leading linguistic school and research team in America if you want, or just realize you are arguing with something imaginary because you aren't understanding what we were talking about?

 

And also it wasn't saying that Cincinnatians have the same accent that NY'ers have, it said they had the most similar annunciation of NY'ers out of any metro in the USA, and if you read the study you can see the results yourself, and also see that in 1995 only 2 of 16 subjects aged 18-30 had that, 50% of subjects 30-50 had it, and 100% of subjects had it that were 50 or older.  That makes them all 38-50 (only 2 of 16 have it), 50-70 (50% have it), and 70 and older (100% have it), that are living now.

 

If it was as prevalent as the study suggested: Why did it die.

 

For example: I have Taiwanese-American friend who was raised in Taipei then in Kew Gardens, Queens. If I blindfolded you and had her speak English you'd swear she was a fourth or fifth generation NYer. So why is there no more of this NY accent in Cincy?

 

Well, if you read the study, you can see what the researchers said the reason for it was, otherwise I am simply copying what was already in there for you to read freely.

 

But basically, overtime, immigration from the applachian south, black south, and immigration from business, etc. has crowded it out and it has followed what many other regions were seeing at that time which was a westernization of dialects.

 

How is this unique to Cincy? How does it explain that Chicago, Detroit an Cleveland all currently have an affected EC dialect despite larger levels immigration during this period (until about 1970 or so for Cleveland and Detroit). Sounds like the group of NY-style speakers was pretty small to begin with.

[mrnyc]

people discount columbus as just having some flat all-american accent, but really they do a have their own thing at least a little bit.

 

the funny one is locals would say nayshunul for national.

 

some of the older people have an odd, sing songy voice too.

 

like, "i went shopping at LAAzurUs."

 

[mrnyc]

Most people with a Cincinnati accent have been here 100+ years so they have more money and don't work at gas stations, Wal-Mart, and the places where newcomers to the city get the idea that everyone in Cincinnati is a hillbilly. 

 

 

 

 

well, since you went there, cinci is the weirdest mix of hillbillies and preppies. definately unique that is for sure.

[GCrites]

people discount columbus as just having some flat all-american accent, but really they do a have their own thing at least a little bit.

 

the funny one is locals would say nayshunul for national.

 

some of the older people have an odd, sing songy voice too.

 

like, "i went shopping at LAAzurUs."

 

 

 

The Phyllis Diller voice?

 

 

[IAGuy39]

I don't care about an academic study. I lived in Cincinnati for a long time and interacted with hundreds or thousands of people on the east, west and north side. I've been to NY several times. No one in Cincinnati sounds like a NYer. That just sounds totally ridiculous to me.

 

Yes well maybe if you read it and also the explanation I gave you would see that it stated it was dying out by 1995 and hardly existant in the younger generation of that time which was 1995, so only now people that are 70 years or older have it.  So you can dismiss a published academic research paper by the leading linguistic school and research team in America if you want, or just realize you are arguing with something imaginary because you aren't understanding what we were talking about?

 

And also it wasn't saying that Cincinnatians have the same accent that NY'ers have, it said they had the most similar annunciation of NY'ers out of any metro in the USA, and if you read the study you can see the results yourself, and also see that in 1995 only 2 of 16 subjects aged 18-30 had that, 50% of subjects 30-50 had it, and 100% of subjects had it that were 50 or older.  That makes them all 38-50 (only 2 of 16 have it), 50-70 (50% have it), and 70 and older (100% have it), that are living now.

 

If it was as prevalent as the study suggested: Why did it die.

 

For example: I have Taiwanese-American friend who was raised in Taipei then in Kew Gardens, Queens. If I blindfolded you and had her speak English you'd swear she was a fourth or fifth generation NYer. So why is there no more of this NY accent in Cincy?

 

Well, if you read the study, you can see what the researchers said the reason for it was, otherwise I am simply copying what was already in there for you to read freely.

 

But basically, overtime, immigration from the applachian south, black south, and immigration from business, etc. has crowded it out and it has followed what many other regions were seeing at that time which was a westernization of dialects.

 

How is this unique to Cincy? How does it explain that Chicago, Detroit an Cleveland all currently have an affected EC dialect despite larger levels immigration during this period (until about 1970 or so for Cleveland and Detroit). Sounds like the group of NY-style speakers was pretty small to begin with.

 

I honestly don't know.  Your last statement is incorrect as it said about 100% of the Cincinnatians in the older age group had the most similar announciation of "a" to New York City as any metro in the USA.  Like I said, you can read it yourself and the research was well done and answers questions as to why it is unique to Cincy, why it is different from other areas, etc.

 

Cleveland, Detroit and Chicago have the Northern City Vowel Shift which is not what NY has. 

 

I'm not the expert on this, I was just relaying a study I found, so I wouldn't be the one to answer any questions on it, the researchers and experts in the field would be the ones to do that.  But I would be inclined to believe them especially considering they are coming from a prestigious University that obviously has a very esteemed field of linguistics.

[mrnyc]

^The Phyllis Diller voice?

 

 

 

 

 

haha phylliss diller from lima, ohio!

 

hmm, i'll have to try to think of someone who is an example.

 

[ColDayMan]

Dayton natives, like Columbus, has a general "boring" flat Midland accent.  Now Dayton has a whole bunch of folks from eastern Kentucky due to the Delphi/GM factory migration in the 40's and 50's so you'll hear plenty of Appalachian accents, notably on the eastside and eastern suburbs (Fairborn, Riverside, Huber Heights, hell, even parts of Kettering and DEFINITELY Franklin).  Martin Sheen probably has the best example of a native Dayton accent.

[AmrapinVA]

I don't care about an academic study. I lived in Cincinnati for a long time and interacted with hundreds or thousands of people on the east, west and north side. I've been to NY several times. No one in Cincinnati sounds like a NYer. That just sounds totally ridiculous to me.

 

Yes well maybe if you read it and also the explanation I gave you would see that it stated it was dying out by 1995 and hardly existant in the younger generation of that time which was 1995, so only now people that are 70 years or older have it.  So you can dismiss a published academic research paper by the leading linguistic school and research team in America if you want, or just realize you are arguing with something imaginary because you aren't understanding what we were talking about?

 

And also it wasn't saying that Cincinnatians have the same accent that NY'ers have, it said they had the most similar annunciation of NY'ers out of any metro in the USA, and if you read the study you can see the results yourself, and also see that in 1995 only 2 of 16 subjects aged 18-30 had that, 50% of subjects 30-50 had it, and 100% of subjects had it that were 50 or older.  That makes them all 38-50 (only 2 of 16 have it), 50-70 (50% have it), and 70 and older (100% have it), that are living now.

 

If it was as prevalent as the study suggested: Why did it die.

 

For example: I have Taiwanese-American friend who was raised in Taipei then in Kew Gardens, Queens. If I blindfolded you and had her speak English you'd swear she was a fourth or fifth generation NYer. So why is there no more of this NY accent in Cincy?

 

Well, if you read the study, you can see what the researchers said the reason for it was, otherwise I am simply copying what was already in there for you to read freely.

 

But basically, overtime, immigration from the applachian south, black south, and immigration from business, etc. has crowded it out and it has followed what many other regions were seeing at that time which was a westernization of dialects.

 

How is this unique to Cincy? How does it explain that Chicago, Detroit an Cleveland all currently have an affected EC dialect despite larger levels immigration during this period (until about 1970 or so for Cleveland and Detroit). Sounds like the group of NY-style speakers was pretty small to begin with.

 

I honestly don't know.  Your last statement is incorrect as it said about 100% of the Cincinnatians in the older age group had the most similar announciation of "a" to New York City as any metro in the USA.  Like I said, you can read it yourself and the research was well done and answers questions as to why it is unique to Cincy, why it is different from other areas, etc.

 

Cleveland, Detroit and Chicago have the Northern City Vowel Shift which is not what NY has. 

 

I'm not the expert on this, I was just relaying a study I found, so I wouldn't be the one to answer any questions on it, the researchers and experts in the field would be the ones to do that.  But I would be inclined to believe them especially considering they are coming from a prestigious University that obviously has a very esteemed field of linguistics.

 

So everyone spoke NY-style and then it stopped because Cincinnati was overrun with outsiders. It's interesting and certainly not like any other place I know of. NYers managed to keep their accent despite giant waves of immigration. Fine with me. I just never meet anyone from Cincy who spoke that way.

 

I don't pretend people from the Great Lakes cities are ECers it's just that they currently sound the closest than other places in the Midwest. I don't think many people would argue with that.