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Attacks on Public Education

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Terrifying ... They will undermine every pillar of American competitiveness

 

80% of core conservatives now say U.S. colleges are bad - a worse rating than they gave to Islam or unions. GOP tax plan will cost students and universities an extra $65 billion over 10 years https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/the-right-really-was-coming-after-college-next/


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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Anyone concerned with the future of higher education in America should be concerned by the quiet attack on the social sciences and humanities by Koch-funded schools and institutions

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2018/04/22/professor-a-disturbing-story-about-the-influence-of-the-koch-network-in-higher-education/


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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It's funny. I went to a small, private liberal arts college and came out of it more Conservative.

 

The far right doesn't think higher education is bad; they just know that it will expose their sons and daughters to certain truths that will be inconvenient. My parents both taught me how to critically think for myself, that's honestly all you need to not be "brainwashed" in college.

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the problem with many social science professors is that they do not like debate in their class and expect the class to walk lockstep with their specific beliefs even when those beliefs are pure opinion and not relevant to the meat of the class.  I found this true of a couple of the social science and humanities professors I had in undergrad. If you dared debate them in class or disagree with their political statements, you did so at your peril. This is what I see (and justifiably so) what many conservatives are frustrated about. It seems to cater to the social sciences where professors cannot separate their personal beliefs from the facts discussed in the class.

 

Now, what I found fascinating is that this was not the case in law school. The majority of professors tried to keep their political beliefs out of the classroom and in the event they were relevant to the discussion, the professor's were able to take both sides of the issue depending on the student raising the point. It was an admirable quality that I wish the humanities and social science professors in undergrad would learn how to do.

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the problem with many social science professors is that they do not like debate in their class and expect the class to walk lockstep with their specific beliefs even when those beliefs are pure opinion and not relevant to the meat of the class.

 

Just a few days ago:

 

Professor tells conservative student to 'shut up, f--k your life'

 

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/red-alert-politics/professor-tells-conservative-student-to-shut-up-f-k-your-life

 

A Brookdale Community College professor is under investigation after a video was released showing him yelling “f--k your life” at a conservative student in the class.

 

According to NJ Advance Media, the outburst occurred after student Christopher Lyle challenged his professor, Howard Finkelstein, by suggesting that women and men alike can be victims of sexual crimes.

 


 

Anyone concerned with the future of higher education in America should really be concerned with the quiet clear and present attack on divergent thought.

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^ To your point, the vast majority of stories like this come out of the community college side and not 4 year universities. You are not seeing the tenure tract professors who do this either (yes there are some out there) but you see more of this from the adjuncts and the community college profs who are just there to teach and not do the research.

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I was contemplating starting a similar thread.  But more towards the inverse.  Its a subject I’ve been mulling over. The idea was an educational attainment level in order to vote.  But i figure since we all know how Trump used Facebook profiles to advertise to people that are susceptible to various ad campaigns it should be a draw now. Yes 25-35% of people are deplorable and 15% are despicable.  I refer to the 7-8% on each end of the political spectrum when i say despicable. There are left wing apologists for Assad and there are right wing racist and religious zealot ones. 

The important part is not getting involved in dumb politics for a sliver of some outdated ideology

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The term "elite" is all about "us vs them." Even though many wealthy folks are highly educated, the term "elite" is coded speech for scientists, lawyers, politicians, artists, professors, businesspeople who  disagree with "us." If you disagree & you're educated, you're "elite."

 

"Elite," sadly has become a code word for "educated." The educated class has always been about maintaining order, democracy & governmental institutions. If your agenda is institutional destruction and authoritarian plutocracy, the educated are your natural foe.

 

https://twitter.com/fmbutt/status/990458401271492609?s=19


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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Matt Schlapp got into a Mercedes driven by a private driver while he sent his tweet railing against "elites"

 

Are you referring to his wife? 

 

 

This joke is in poor taste.

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It's funny. I went to a small, private liberal arts college and came out of it more Conservative.

 

The far right doesn't think higher education is bad; they just know that it will expose their sons and daughters to certain truths that will be inconvenient. My parents both taught me how to critically think for myself, that's honestly all you need to not be "brainwashed" in college.

 

But the same people who think colleges brainwash people would probably think you're brainwashed because you have the capability for rational thought that allows you to dislike Trump.

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The term "elite" is all about "us vs them." Even though many wealthy folks are highly educated, the term "elite" is coded speech for scientists, lawyers, politicians, artists, professors, businesspeople who  disagree with "us." If you disagree & you're educated, you're "elite."

 

"Elite," sadly has become a code word for "educated." The educated class has always been about maintaining order, democracy & governmental institutions. If your agenda is institutional destruction and authoritarian plutocracy, the educated are your natural foe.

 

https://twitter.com/fmbutt/status/990458401271492609?s=19

 

Not necessarily. There are a lot of people who rally against liberal elite's who have advance degrees and the like. Most of it stems from the holier than thou attitude that people have about those who may have a degree but no actual real world experience. It is the bubble and group think mentality that people are so frustrated with and the smugness that they know better than you about how you need to live your life.

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The term "elite" is all about "us vs them." Even though many wealthy folks are highly educated, the term "elite" is coded speech for scientists, lawyers, politicians, artists, professors, businesspeople who  disagree with "us." If you disagree & you're educated, you're "elite."

 

"Elite," sadly has become a code word for "educated." The educated class has always been about maintaining order, democracy & governmental institutions. If your agenda is institutional destruction and authoritarian plutocracy, the educated are your natural foe.

 

https://twitter.com/fmbutt/status/990458401271492609?s=19

 

Not necessarily. There are a lot of people who rally against liberal elite's who have advance degrees and the like. Most of it stems from the holier than thou attitude that people have about those who may have a degree but no actual real world experience. It is the bubble and group think mentality that people are so frustrated with and the smugness that they know better than you about how you need to live your life.

 

How many strawmen could fit in one comment.  Jeeze

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The term "elite" is all about "us vs them." Even though many wealthy folks are highly educated, the term "elite" is coded speech for scientists, lawyers, politicians, artists, professors, businesspeople who  disagree with "us." If you disagree & you're educated, you're "elite."

 

"Elite," sadly has become a code word for "educated." The educated class has always been about maintaining order, democracy & governmental institutions. If your agenda is institutional destruction and authoritarian plutocracy, the educated are your natural foe.

 

https://twitter.com/fmbutt/status/990458401271492609?s=19

 

Not necessarily. There are a lot of people who rally against liberal elite's who have advance degrees and the like. Most of it stems from the holier than thou attitude that people have about those who may have a degree but no actual real world experience. It is the bubble and group think mentality that people are so frustrated with and the smugness that they know better than you about how you need to live your life.

 

Right - the term "elite" is, in the most basic sense, a synonym for the word "smug," or at very least an added layer of specification to that term. It applies not to people who are educated, but to people who feel their level of education makes them a better person than someone who isn't as educated. Or, for that matter, someone who feels their education makes them smarter than someone else (more education does not always result in more intelligence). Typically, such a person's statements and actions make their smugness rather apparent. They've got a sense of superiority that is not based in reality. It's not at all unlike the phrase "coastal elite" - someone who thinks they're better than those of us in flyover country for no other reason than their geographic location. It just so happens that the overwhelming majority of people who fall into both categories of "elites" happen to be liberals.

 

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The term "elite" is all about "us vs them." Even though many wealthy folks are highly educated, the term "elite" is coded speech for scientists, lawyers, politicians, artists, professors, businesspeople who  disagree with "us." If you disagree & you're educated, you're "elite."

 

"Elite," sadly has become a code word for "educated." The educated class has always been about maintaining order, democracy & governmental institutions. If your agenda is institutional destruction and authoritarian plutocracy, the educated are your natural foe.

 

https://twitter.com/fmbutt/status/990458401271492609?s=19

 

Not necessarily. There are a lot of people who rally against liberal elite's who have advance degrees and the like. Most of it stems from the holier than thou attitude that people have about those who may have a degree but no actual real world experience. It is the bubble and group think mentality that people are so frustrated with and the smugness that they know better than you about how you need to live your life.

 

Right - the term "elite" is, in the most basic sense, a synonym for the word "smug," or at very least an added layer of specification to that term. It applies not to people who are educated, but to people who feel their level of education makes them a better person than someone who isn't as educated. Or, for that matter, someone who feels their education makes them smarter than someone else (more education does not always result in more intelligence). Typically, such a person's statements and actions make their smugness rather apparent. They've got a sense of superiority that is not based in reality. It's not at all unlike the phrase "coastal elite" - someone who thinks they're better than those of us in flyover country for no other reason than their geographic location. It just so happens that the overwhelming majority of people who fall into both categories of "elites" happen to be liberals.

 

The most smug people I ever meet are the people who call liberals snowflakes and pretend that they don't form any of their opinions on emotion.  That is the ultimate in smugness if you ask me. 

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Isn't it rather smug to insist that you know more about any given subject than everyone who's spent their life studying it?  "Global warming, yeah right.  Well then why was it cold this April, smart guy?"  That's not smug?  I think it is.

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Isn't it rather smug to insist that you know more about any given subject than everyone who's spent their life studying it?  "Global warming, yeah right.  Well then why was it cold this April, smart guy?"  That's not smug?  I think it is.

 

Smug isn't the right word to describe that person. Naive might be. It could, in context, also be a genuine question, or at least an invitation to dialogue. Most of the time, it's probably tongue-in-cheek. I don't think anyone who says such a thing is asserting they know more about the topic than the "experts."

 

Smug is how the "expert" might respond. There are multiple different approaches one might take to respond to such a statement, some are smug, and some are not smug at all, but the statement in and of itself isn't smug.

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I don't think anyone who says such a thing is asserting they know more about the topic than the "experts."

 

But that's the very next thing they say.  And then we hear about the nefarious motives that caused the experts to lie.  Whenever either side talks like the other side is a bunch of naughty children, that's smug.  And to be smug about one's own ignorance, that's dumb.

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DcErO_bV0AE_73m.jpg:large

 

I'll share this here too.  it seems the word elite was redefined by elitists to make midwestern rubes feel like they are one of us.  Some of us unfortunately ell for this.  To the rest of us.  Can you believe this rubes actually think the elite label was something serious?

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I don't think anyone who says such a thing is asserting they know more about the topic than the "experts."

 

 

But that's the very next thing they say.  And then we hear about the nefarious motives that caused the experts to lie.  Whenever either side talks like the other side is a bunch of naughty children, that's smug.  And to be smug about one's own ignorance, that's dumb.

 

 

It's tough when in American discourse those with strong beliefs but little proof are often given the same level of exposure as those with strong empirical knowledge.

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Changed the title of this thread to reflect their apparent general hatred of all public education....

 

Billionaires v teachers: the Koch brothers' plan to starve public education

A small group of women have succeeded in putting a state law promoted by Betsy DeVos and billionaire donors which they see as an attack on public education on the ballot in November

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/sep/07/arizona-fight-koch-brothers-school-vouchers


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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In all fairness, one could argue that liberals are somewhat responsible for decimating the quality of inner city public schooling and instruction over the last 50-plus years.

 

The issue is more nuanced than right or left wingers hate public ed.

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In all fairness, one could argue that liberals are somewhat responsible for decimating the quality of inner city public schooling and instruction over the last 50-plus years.

 

What is the factual basis for that conclusion?  Republicans have been pushing the use of vouchers and for "competition" between public schools and private (mostly for-profit) charter schools, cutting taxes, and support programs for students (like free-lunch programs). 

 

What have Democrats (liberals have not been in charge of the Democratic Party for a long time, so I assume you mean Democrats) done to "decimate" the quality of not just public schools but "inner city" public schools?

 

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This thread title is rather extreme  :P

 

Do they object to the public funding of political views rival to theirs?  Probably.  Are they tired of social justice warriors and their identity politics narrative?  Probably.  Are they jealous that almost any major american university is pushing liberal political views?  Most definitely.

 

But going so far as to say right wingers hate public education is a gross over generalization.

 

Though I will go so far as to say that there are most definitely some who probably do  ::)

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i saw one of that rightwinger nitwit betsey devoss’ many yachts in charlevoix recently. it was all i could do to not chuck a rock at it lol.

 

charlevoix is basically the hamptons for the midwestern pastel clothes wearing/i got mine/right wing/wealthy hens with nothing to do. i suspect they fund the notorious michigan militia nuts around there, ie., the bizarre billboards on the roads are 80% militia group events and saving fetuses and like 20% typical business billboards.

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i saw one of that rightwinger nitwit betsey devoss’ many yachts in charlevoix recently. it was all i could do to not chuck a rock at it lol.

 

charlevoix is basically the hamptons for the midwestern pastel clothes wearing/i got mine/right wing/wealthy hens with nothing to do. i suspect they fund the notorious michigan militia nuts around there, ie., the bizarre billboards on the roads are 80% militia group events and saving fetuses and like 20% typical business billboards.

 

A) I was in Traverse City over the summer, similar vibe but more artsy.

 

B) I also noticed the billboards - one of which read "God elected President Trump, our votes were just his vessel."

 

C) Chucking a rock at a yacht would likely yield more insurance coverage and thus upgrades to the boat.

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^charter schools are public schools

 

"public" schools that do not have to educate the unruly, the disabled, or immigrants with limited English -- leaving the true public schools as the "school of last resort" -- and thus failing to serve the public

 

"public" schools that are not required to have community engagement; and are not required to disclose finances -- and thus are not truly accountable to the public (and this also encourages fraud -- as we have seen -- https://www.mydaytondailynews.com/news/report-blasts-charter-school-oversight-ohio/1IzwY9JZe1xKJaOLueG3UK/)

 

"public" schools that fail more often than true public schools -- the Ohio Department of Education says 40% of Ohio's charter schools are failing, whereas only 1.5% of true public schools are in academic emergency or watch

 

"public" schools that do not have to (and cannot) increase funding through tax levies, and therefore pay lobbyists to convince the state to increase their funding (see ECOT -- failed charter school received millions, and donated millions to politicians before being closed after many years of failing grades and inflated enrollment)

 

Charter schools make for some unusual "public" schools, if you want to call them that.

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On 4/15/2020 at 5:07 PM, taestell said:

The Secretary of Education doesn't think rural kids should get an education.

 

 

Just make sure your first grader is armed to the teeth to murder any lurking grizzlies. 

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To the title of the thread: this was briefly coming up among our university administrators earlier this year, about how "some Americans" don't trust higher education any more, and a few of my more senior colleagues reminded me that public schools have long been a target for the right - as others mentioned, they don't like their children being exposed to contradictions or challenges to their received wisdom, whether in the form of sex education, evolution and science in general, critical studies of society (your social science faculty) that challenge existing hierarchies and assumptions about what is possible, or any number of minority rights - women, African-Americans, LGBTQ+, etc etc. They are a small but very vocal minority of never-anythings, better to acknowledge the core of their antagonism and then move on. 

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1 hour ago, westerninterloper said:

they don't like their children being exposed to contradictions or challenges to their received wisdom, whether in the form of sex education, evolution and science in general, critical studies of society (your social science faculty) that challenge existing hierarchies and assumptions about what is possible, or any number of minority rights - women, African-Americans, LGBTQ+, etc etc.

 

I went to high school in the mid-2000s in a district in Clermont County that was probably around 95% white. During that time our social studies department started offering a class called "Popular Culture". To my knowledge, it was basically just a history class like any other, focusing on maybe 1960-to-present or 1980-to-present. I didn't take the class so I don't know the exact years, but you get the point. I remember one of my friends saying that they weren't allowed to take the class because their mom didn't want them learning "all that black crap". Obviously there's underlying racism in that statement, but there's also just an odd belief that kids only need to learn history up to WWII, and that if a teacher tries to explain anything about the modern world, it's going to corrupt them by exposing them to new ideas. Or some ridiculous idea that the teacher is going to hold open the kids' eyelids and show them 2 Live Crew music videos or something.

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^I have no idea what was taught in that class, but when I was a senior in high school I took an African Authors class.  I still clearly recall several of the novels that we read:

  1. Things Fall Apart by Chinua Achebe (actually I recall reading this book twice in high school, first as a freshman and again in the African Authors class)
  2. The Palm-Wine Drinkard by Amos Tutuala
  3. Native Son by Richard Wright
  4. Song of Solomon by Toni Morrison
  5. Beloved by Toni Morrison

 

It was a good class that was taught by the school's vice principal (oddly we did not read the Autobiography of Malcom X by Alex Haley, which I read years later on my own accord and consider a must-read)  However, I managed to leave high school without having read many classic novels because of this class and pressure to deviate from the canon in other literature classes.  For example, I managed to leave a college prep school without having touched Hemingway, Steinbeck, Faulkner, Salinger, Fitzgerald, Vonnegut, Orwell, etc.  

 

Unfortunately it's going to become more and more difficult to teach literature in the future because phones and screens are ruining everything.  They ruined music, they ruined art, they ruined hanging out, and they are ruining school. 

 

 

 

 

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