Jump to content
cincydave8

Cincinnati: West End: FC Cincinnati Stadium

Recommended Posts

If Cincy is already a team, the Ohio market is covered and you do not need 2 teams. Better cover Ohio was not the best choice of words, but rather Ohio would be covered if there was a team in Cincy at that point.

 

So Ohio can only support 1 MLS team? Hmm, not that Cleveland is in the running, but there is a wide spread between NEO and SWO.

 

Cleveland has not signaled interest in a team, but sure If Cleveland wanted a team then they could as the population would be spread out enough between the cities. I think Cincy and Columbus could not coexist as easily

 

I think they easily could and have already proven that they have. Columbus hardly ever marketed to Cincinnati, which is fine, but the past two soccer seasons have show there's room for both. Each team is clearly identified with its respective city.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Regarding the idea that having two teams near each other: the best way to increase support for the MLS (and pro soccer in general) is by ensuring a critical mass of fans, media coverage, and buzz. Having a rival nearby (within easy driving distance) might cause a tiny bit of cannibalization, but that effect will be far outweighed by the excitement of a rival which will bring out many new fans.

 

As an example in the USL, FC Cincinnati and Louisville City FC both benefit from being close to each other. Or, similarly, nobody thinks having two top college basketball teams (UC and Xavier) hurts the overall college basketball market in Cincinnati.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Something's really fishy. If they want to use the Oakley stadium proposal to get the MLS bid, dont's they at least have to pretend that they like the Oakley stadium proposal? If they go to MLS and say "yeah, this site is okay I guess, it's approved, but we could totally choose a different site if you pick us," that doesn't really seem like a strong proposal, does it?

 

It sounds like they're just going to pretend that the Oakley stadium plan is a done deal.  Like MLS won't see thru that.  It's not logical that CIN is just going to submit a bid and say we'd like to put it in Oakley, but we'll see where it ends up.

 

At a minimum, a done deal site must be in place for the bid.

 

MLS doesn't care which site gets picked.  It only cares about the team having a soccer-specific stadium.  Oakley is the fastest, least controversial site, so that's what is getting locked down because the bid needs to get submitted ASAP.  If the site changes after the bid is accepted, no one in MLS is going to bat an eye.  And if no better site materializes, they just proceed with Oakley.

 

So, other then Newport, there is no closer site for an MLS in the downtown area?  I thought the MLS prefers downtown-ish locations.  Look what's happening in Columbus now; also, Chicago's stadium is in a really bad location, among others.

 

 

No one is talking about this, but since you ask, I think the best spot is directly on top of the only block of 5th street that exists east of P&G, between Eggleston and Culvert.  It's close to the casino, there's a ton of parking, and no one is ever going to build anything else there.  That site is walkable from the CBD, OTR, Pendleton, Mount Adams, and Newport, but it wouldn't really threaten the character of any of those, as 471 and surface lots are the only things adjacent.

 

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Cincinnati,+OH/@39.1036116,-84.504102,750m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x884051b1de3821f9:0x69fb7e8be4c09317!8m2!3d39.1031182!4d-84.5120196

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Something's really fishy. If they want to use the Oakley stadium proposal to get the MLS bid, dont's they at least have to pretend that they like the Oakley stadium proposal? If they go to MLS and say "yeah, this site is okay I guess, it's approved, but we could totally choose a different site if you pick us," that doesn't really seem like a strong proposal, does it?

 

It sounds like they're just going to pretend that the Oakley stadium plan is a done deal.  Like MLS won't see thru that.  It's not logical that CIN is just going to submit a bid and say we'd like to put it in Oakley, but we'll see where it ends up.

 

At a minimum, a done deal site must be in place for the bid.

 

MLS doesn't care which site gets picked.  It only cares about the team having a soccer-specific stadium.  Oakley is the fastest, least controversial site, so that's what is getting locked down because the bid needs to get submitted ASAP.  If the site changes after the bid is accepted, no one in MLS is going to bat an eye.  And if no better site materializes, they just proceed with Oakley.

 

So, other then Newport, there is no closer site for an MLS in the downtown area?  I thought the MLS prefers downtown-ish locations.  Look what's happening in Columbus now; also, Chicago's stadium is in a really bad location, among others.

 

 

No one is talking about this, but since you ask, I think the best spot is directly on top of the only block of 5th street that exists east of P&G, between Eggleston and Culvert.  It's close to the casino, there's a ton of parking, and no one is ever going to build anything else there.  That site is walkable from the CBD, OTR, Pendleton, Mount Adams, and Newport, but it wouldn't really threaten the character of any of those, as 471 and surface lots are the only things adjacent.

 

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Cincinnati,+OH/@39.1036116,-84.504102,750m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x884051b1de3821f9:0x69fb7e8be4c09317!8m2!3d39.1031182!4d-84.5120196

 

With Skyhouse being built just down the road, it would be a great catalyst for development in that area.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hotel owners in Cincinnati don't feel that a new stadium would increase the number of overnight visitors to the city.

 

Hoteliers to council: Don't spend hotel tax on soccer stadium

 

A group of Downtown and Uptown hotel leaders reached out to Cincinnati City Council today urging them not to use any hotel tax money on a stadium.

 

The letter, obtained by the Enquirer, was hand-delivered to all council members today. It states that "critical convention center needs," specifically, the Duke Energy Convention Center, should be a higher priority for the city than the stadium.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^ Too little too late from a handful of hotel owners, most of whom don't live in Cincinnati. I don't think the owner of the Millennium has any room to talk considering what a dump his hotel is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with the hotel owners and operators. The hotel tax money would be better spent on expanding the convention center, or at least making the area by the convention center more attractive. Cincinnati's priorities are so out of whack, it's ridiculous. How many studies need to be done to show that sports stadiums are bad investments? Especially when a stadium exists by itself and not clustered around a convention center or other stadium so some sort of regular critical mass can be established, they have little effect on spin off development. We have a foolish Mayor, who has obviously been bought by the Lindners and Berding, using funding that could be spent on MUCH better projects all for what? The 'prestige' that comes with having an MLS team? Most people don't give a rats ass about the MLS, though they might be interested or even play/ed soccer. Conventions actually do bring people to town who would otherwise never think about coming to Cincinnati. Invest in that or invest in building up the center city so the visitors who do come here leave impressed and want to return. A soccer stadium in Oakley does nothing except placate some soccer bros.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looking at Sacramento, Cincinnati, and Nashville, it's interesting how much less the Nashville ownership group is contributing in up-front cash to finance the stadium. In Nashville, the owners are only putting $25 million towards the new stadium.

 

Sacramento: <a href="https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2017/07/28/sacramento-republic-fc-prepare-stadium-site-ground-making-event">$245 million stadium w/ 100% private financing</a>

Cincinnati: $200 million stadium w/ 100% private financing

Nashville: <a href="https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2017/11/08/nashville-metro-council-passes-275-million-plan-potential-mls-stadium">$275 million stadium with $25 million in private financing</a>

 

As much as I hate to say it, I fear MLS owners will want to reward the Nashville financing model, since it puts more pressure on other cities to put up money to finance stadiums (as opposed to leaving it to the owners).

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Overall, good news today:

  • MLS announces Cincinnati is one of 4 finalists (along with Sacramento, Detroit, and Nashville)
  • County passes $15 million funding package for garage
  • City Council passes ordinance providing $30 million in funding for infrastructure

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Overall, good news today:

  • MLS announces Cincinnati is one of 4 finalists (along with Sacramento, Detroit, and Nashville)
  • County passes $15 million funding package for garage
  • City Council passes ordinance providing $30 million in funding for infrastructure

 

I'm sure the Lindners and Co will make up the last little funding gap. Now the only questions remains can we beat Nashville in 2 weeks?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think they should build the stadium in the neighborhood next to Brookstone. Level the houses there and have Brookstone Village connect to it.

 

Yes, they will have to buy out the owners but if they pay a premium, I am sure they would sell.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Overall, good news today:

  • MLS announces Cincinnati is one of 4 finalists (along with Sacramento, Detroit, and Nashville)

 

Detroit huh. Well so much for requiring a soccer specific stadium.

 

People are starting to realize that the MLS is full of crap.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Overall, good news today:

  • MLS announces Cincinnati is one of 4 finalists (along with Sacramento, Detroit, and Nashville)

 

Detroit huh. Well so much for requiring a soccer specific stadium.

 

People are starting to realize that the MLS is full of crap.

 

1) No one is expecting Detroit to get the bid, specifically because of their stadium.

2) I don't believe any other candidate had the financing in place or agreement for stadium (new stadium or otherwise) to even make a final four.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think they should build the stadium in the neighborhood next to Brookstone. Level the houses there and have Brookstone Village connect to it.

 

Yes, they will have to buy out the owners but if they pay a premium, I am sure they would sell.

 

why?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think they should build the stadium in the neighborhood next to Brookstone. Level the houses there and have Brookstone Village connect to it.

 

Yes, they will have to buy out the owners but if they pay a premium, I am sure they would sell.

 

why?

 

Selfish reasons

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1) No one is expecting Detroit to get the bid, specifically because of their stadium.

2) I don't believe any other candidate had the financing in place or agreement for stadium (new stadium or otherwise) to even make a final four.

 

1) If Detroit's chances are nil, why would MLS even bother announcing that they're a finalist?

2) If MLS is so great, why are there only three markets that can cobble together a stadium agreement?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1) No one is expecting Detroit to get the bid, specifically because of their stadium.

2) I don't believe any other candidate had the financing in place or agreement for stadium (new stadium or otherwise) to even make a final four.

 

1) If Detroit's chances are nil, why would MLS even bother announcing that they're a finalist?

2) If MLS is so great, why are there only three markets that can cobble together a stadium agreement?

 

1) Technically a soccer specific stadium is not required, but they have all but said it will be. MLS doesn't want to box themselves into a corner if an exceptional expansion bid comes forward.

2) Because it costs at least $150 Million to get in, you have to control land, and have financing in place to build a $200M+ stadium in an urban area? It's not exactly easy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looking at Sacramento, Cincinnati, and Nashville, it's interesting how much less the Nashville ownership group is contributing in up-front cash to finance the stadium. In Nashville, the owners are only putting $25 million towards the new stadium.

 

There's a lot more going on behind-the-scenes with Nashville than is publicly known.  The detail that is public but which is pretty amazing is that John Ingram, who is on Vanderbilt's board, is attempting to have Commodores football move to the soccer stadium.  Vanderbilt and its hospital are landlocked and with the escalating value of Nashville property the university will have interest in freeing up the land and its related parking.  The university could no doubt set up significant revenue streams if it maintains land leases beneath new commercial development on what is now campus land:

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.14372,-86.8092372,828m/data=!3m1!1e3

 

For example, this behemoth just went up directly across from the campus:

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.148526,-86.7998034,3a,75y,109.16h,101.89t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sp6smo_DtbgndmCrLOHqx0A!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo3.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3Dp6smo_DtbgndmCrLOHqx0A%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D77.7337%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656

 

So what we have is a reversal of the Cincinnati situation, where some suggested that FC buy Nippert Stadium and sign UC football as a tenant. 

 

But what is similar is that the bid is funded by a blue blood family with its tentacles in all sorts of other activities.  What is peculiar is that the Ingram boys have generally been very low-key so this is out of character for them to come out pushing a controversial real estate deal.  But it's possible because they one of the funders of Nashville's political machine -- the one that is pushing the ambitious light rail subway plan. 

 

This was all pushed through Cincinnati City Council by the blue bloods who fund our machine.  Supposedly we do not have a machine in Cincinnati, but it's quite obvious that we do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1) No one is expecting Detroit to get the bid, specifically because of their stadium.

2) I don't believe any other candidate had the financing in place or agreement for stadium (new stadium or otherwise) to even make a final four.

 

1) If Detroit's chances are nil, why would MLS even bother announcing that they're a finalist?

2) If MLS is so great, why are there only three markets that can cobble together a stadium agreement?

Only three teams were able to come up with everything needed in less then a year.  There will be two more expansion teams announced at some point after this year, could be in 2018 or could be later.  So the two cities that aren't selected this year along with the eight other cities who have shown interest will likely have over another year to get everything figured out. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Vanderbilt announced two months ago that they will not be moving their games to the new soccer stadium as they want to stay on campus. 

 

John Ingram recused himself from the votes.  Eventually they will move and Ingram Industries will sign the Commodores as a tenant in a stadium they own that the public helped finance. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looking at Sacramento, Cincinnati, and Nashville, it's interesting how much less the Nashville ownership group is contributing in up-front cash to finance the stadium. In Nashville, the owners are only putting $25 million towards the new stadium.

 

Sacramento: <a href="https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2017/07/28/sacramento-republic-fc-prepare-stadium-site-ground-making-event">$245 million stadium w/ 100% private financing</a>

Cincinnati: $200 million stadium w/ 100% private financing

Nashville: <a href="https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2017/11/08/nashville-metro-council-passes-275-million-plan-potential-mls-stadium">$275 million stadium with $25 million in private financing</a>

 

As much as I hate to say it, I fear MLS owners will want to reward the Nashville financing model, since it puts more pressure on other cities to put up money to finance stadiums (as opposed to leaving it to the owners).

 

Just came across this in US Today.  Is Cincinnati going to have its Stadium deal fully in place soon?

 

https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrBTz4HNR9ayhYADQJXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTEyZ3ZydnZvBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDQjQ0ODBfMQRzZWMDc2M-/RV=2/RE=1512023431/RO=10/RU=https%3a%2f%2fwww.usatoday.com%2fstory%2fsports%2fmls%2f2017%2f11%2f29%2f4-cities-are-finalists-for-next-mls-expansion%2f108125562%2f/RK=2/RS=uxKegWJfvDekD8n.DckFWXNBjqQ-

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Overall, good news today:

  • MLS announces Cincinnati is one of 4 finalists (along with Sacramento, Detroit, and Nashville)

 

Detroit huh. Well so much for requiring a soccer specific stadium.

 

People are starting to realize that the MLS is full of crap.

 

1) No one is expecting Detroit to get the bid, specifically because of their stadium.

2) I don't believe any other candidate had the financing in place or agreement for stadium (new stadium or otherwise) to even make a final four.

 

Also, Detroit made an interesting move by pulling the Lions’ owners into the ownership group late in the game. MLS wants its teams’ owners to control their stadiums, which arguably would be the case in this situation. It’s not a soccer-specific stadium, but it’s much closer to what MLS wants than simply being a tenant in someone else’s stadium. They basically bought their way out of building a stadium by giving up equity. The question is whether that’s good enough for MLS.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It was interesting to today listening to some of the pundits on the radio point to the timing of the final 4 announcement occurring only hours after Cincinnati secured its stadium plan. This could have been made weeks ago or they could have waited until Dec 1 when the final bids were due. It just seems strange it was announced when it was.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It was interesting to today listening to some of the pundits on the radio point to the timing of the final 4 announcement occurring only hours after Cincinnati secured its stadium plan. This could have been made weeks ago or they could have waited until Dec 1 when the final bids were due. It just seems strange it was announced when it was.

 

The "Final 4" announcement came out this morning before the County and City voted. Sports Illustrated even commented on it before all that and ranked Cincinnati as "third place," but recognized that a stadium plan wasn't finalized yet. It was later that day.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Jehovah's Witnesses just transferred their property in the West End to "MIDTOWN CONGREGATION OF JEHOVAHS WITNESSES C/O SAMUEL JOHNSON" on Nov 28 via an affidavit deed.  I looked up recent property movement in the area because I just had someone contact me with a rumor that "someone" is looking to buy up the area.  Who could that be?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with the hotel owners and operators. The hotel tax money would be better spent on expanding the convention center, or at least making the area by the convention center more attractive. Cincinnati's priorities are so out of whack, it's ridiculous. How many studies need to be done to show that sports stadiums are bad investments? Especially when a stadium exists by itself and not clustered around a convention center or other stadium so some sort of regular critical mass can be established, they have little effect on spin off development. We have a foolish Mayor, who has obviously been bought by the Lindners and Berding, using funding that could be spent on MUCH better projects all for what? The 'prestige' that comes with having an MLS team? Most people don't give a rats ass about the MLS, though they might be interested or even play/ed soccer. Conventions actually do bring people to town who would otherwise never think about coming to Cincinnati. Invest in that or invest in building up the center city so the visitors who do come here leave impressed and want to return. A soccer stadium in Oakley does nothing except placate some soccer bros.

MLS will be doing Cincinnati a favor if it picks Sacramento or Detroit as its 2nd choice after Nashville.  The proposed site for the stadium in Oakley is a godawful location. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well Jason Williams is tweeting that MLS either doesn't like the Oakley spot after all or more likely doesn't like the funding gap there and is telling FCC to have a West End or Newport plan or come up with funding gap money. Anyways, the announcement of the second team seems to be delayed until after new years. Giving FCC time for that and possibly giving Sacramento time to find richer investors. Soccer reporters seem to think FCC right now has the edge on Sacramento if FCC can make MLS happy regarding a stadium, assuming Sacramento doesn't find another billionaire.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, if the Oakley stadium plan ends up happening, at least they can now demolish the Sam's Club and make better use of that space...

 

 

Sam's Club stores in Oakley and Loveland permanently close without notice

 

Two Sam's Club stores in the Tri-State closed Thursday without notice to the public.

 

The Loveland store on Fields-Ertel Road and the Oakley store on Marburg Avenue both permanently closed Thursday, according to spokesperson Anne Hatfield.

 

Both locations were removed from the corporate website Thursday.

 

Pharmacies at both locations will remain open through Jan. 26, Hatfield said.

 

Employees commented on WCPO's Facebook page and said they had no notice of the closure before receiving a letter in the mail.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Breaking news!

 

FC Cincinnati to Cincinnati Public Schools: Let’s meet about West End stadium

 

FC Cincinnati wants to meet with Cincinnati Public Schools board members and the school administration about the possibility of locating its proposed stadium in the West End should it in win a Major League Soccer franchise, according to a letter from the team’s general manager obtained by the Business Courier.

 

FC Cincinnati president and general manager Jeff Berding wrote the letter to the school board president, Carolyn Jones, on Monday.

 

“It is our hope that we win the MLS franchise and then be granted the opportunity to fully engage your board, your administrative staff, students and parents, and others,” Berding wrote.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It'll be interesting the type of blowback FCC would get on this.  I know I saw a few angry tweets about FCC taking Stargel to build a soccer stadium a few weeks ago. CPS holds all the cards.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It'll be interesting the type of blowback FCC would get on this.  I know I saw a few angry tweets about FCC taking Stargel to build a soccer stadium a few weeks ago. CPS holds all the cards.

It all comes down to how FCC/CPS envision replacing Stargel. Where would the replacement go? Would it be "better" for CPS than Stargel? How much would it cost? Would the sale of the land cover the costs of acquiring land and building a new CPS stadium?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The auditor doesn't show any West End properties changing hands in the area yet, though this is just through 1/15 - they could have transferred last week and it wouldn't show up yet"

 

http://www.hamiltoncountyauditor.org/dailysales/dailysales.html

 

They could have legally-binding purchase options, without actually buying/transferring the land. If they don't get the MLS bid, then there's no reason to buy/transfer ownership.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

FC wouldn't be buying any property until they got the official bid from MLS.  They'd have something like a memorandum of understanding executed with the property owners saying if we get the MLS big we'll buy your land for x amount of dollars.  I assume that wouldn't show up on the above site. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just in: @fccincinnati approached Cincinnati Metropolitan Housing Authority to buy land in the West End on Jan. 16th. The CMHA board will consider an option agreement with the team on land in the West End WCPO[/member]

 

https://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/hamilton-county/cincinnati/west-end/fc-cincinnati-has-asked-to-buy-land-in-west-end-from-cincinnati-metropolitan-housing-authority

 

Anyone know the details of where this could be??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So is  citirama not happening or is there enough land for both a stadium and housing?

 

There isn't enough space for a stadium, without an unusual design.  The whole Stargell thing + City West could be a foil, and the plan from the beginning was to get the land Hays-Porter sits on plus the big empty block. 

 

  https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1081909,-84.5244139,737m/data=!3m1!1e3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What I was thinking was that the stadium would be in the Stargel site plus some land to the east, with a re-routed Central Avenue. Then they would want the open land south of Ezzard Charles for parking garage/hopefully mixed use.

 

Looking at Jake’s comment-just brainstorming-  if they used the open land south of Ezzard Charles, and used Clark Street right of way plus the just the north part of the Hayes Porter schoolyard, they could fit a stadium there between Cutter & Mound, with the loss of a church, and a historic building that *may* be able to be incorporated in the facade. (Then you’d have 2 stadiums in the vicinity.)


www.cincinnatiideas.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...