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Cincinnati: West End: FC Cincinnati Stadium

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25 minutes ago, tonyt3524 said:

 

Odds are they would just play a few matches in Nippert if needed. I don't see any way this gets done by the start of the 2021 season but maybe they'll prove me wrong.

Yeah good point forgot about that.  I think Atlanta had to play a couple additional games at Georgia Tech's stadium the year Mercedes Benz stadium opened.  

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2 hours ago, cincydave8 said:

The bottom line is there are posters on this forum will hate FCC no matter what they do, even if the final plans had been posted and were an urbanist dream come true some posters would still stomp their feet and complain.

 

I completely disagree with this. Every person that I have ever seen complaining about the stadium has an actual reason for complaining. Whether it's the architecture/urban design or the displacement of residents and businesses. You may not agree with their complaints/criticism but they still have a valid reason for complaining. To say that the complainers don't have valid complaints and simply hate Berding and the team so much that they are blinded to the facts is incorrect.

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I'm an FC season ticket holder and I'm a West End home owner (bought in well before FC was ever thought of).

 

I talk often with my neighbors about this and I will say that aside from the fear tactics from the Josh Springs/Brian Garry's of this issue, most West End residents in the Dayton Street historic district are pretty optimistic on positive promises that the team has made.  It's kind of hard to pass judgement on things like soccer fields for kids, community events etc. at this point because we are still pretty early in the process.    The one thing that is a common comment from residents is that Berding early on promised that nobody would be displaced.   Whether you agree or disagree with the 14 or so renters being displaced, Berding should have never made that comment.   It was a mistake and people have remembered it possibly because the outside activists and media keep reminding them.   

 

All in all I hope FC stays true to their commitment to the residents and kids of this community 

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2 hours ago, taestell said:

 

I completely disagree with this. Every person that I have ever seen complaining about the stadium has an actual reason for complaining. Whether it's the architecture/urban design or the displacement of residents and businesses. You may not agree with their complaints/criticism but they still have a valid reason for complaining. To say that the complainers don't have valid complaints and simply hate Berding and the team so much that they are blinded to the facts is incorrect.

 

Aren't we talking about 7 residents give or take and a handful of businesses? Also architecture is subjective.

 

Archeticture is art. You will always have people who are divided by how something looks. 

 

If this wasn't FCC, but rather Amazon building HQ 2 in the West end and building a sparawling super campus in the West end there would be 0 criticisms. 

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2 minutes ago, troeros said:

If this wasn't FCC, but rather Amazon building HQ 2 in the West end and building a sparawling super campus in the West end there would be 0 criticisms. 


Well that's a ridiculous take.

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If Amazon said they moved to the West End for the history and urban environment and were going to be good neighbors without displacement then immediately took out a couple of blocks prior to getting designs done asked for tens of millions in tax breaks and millions up front and started kicking folks out as their footprint expanded we would see the same people make the same complaints. This is not about soccer or Berding himself (though he does have baggage from the PBS years) it is about how all of this is playig out and how the promises made upfront are not going in the interest of people who like well built urban environments. The urban environment we hoped would improve with such a large investment and influx of people going to games. That atmosphere could be wonderful if played correctly, I personally am disappointed in how it seems to be going so far, and even more so if it is surrounded by parking and a FCC run entertainment district that isolates it from the community in exchange for perceived 'safety'. I had high hopes, but we will see how it goes.

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1 minute ago, SleepyLeroy said:

If Amazon said they moved to the West End for the history and urban environment and were going to be good neighbors without displacement then immediately took out a couple of blocks prior to getting designs done asked for tens of millions in tax breaks and millions up front and started kicking folks out as their footprint expanded we would see the same people make the same complaints. This is not about soccer or Berding himself (though he does have baggage from the PBS years) it is about how all of this is playig out and how the promises made upfront are not going in the interest of people who like well built urban environments. The urban environment we hoped would improve with such a large investment and influx of people going to games. That atmosphere could be wonderful if played correctly, I personally am disappointed in how it seems to be going so far, and even more so if it is surrounded by parking and a FCC run entertainment district that isolates it from the community in exchange for perceived 'safety'. I had high hopes, but we will see how it goes.

 

Even if it meant 100k new jobs and gigantic economic urban core rippple effect?

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One name for you - Josh Spring. I think he and is cohorts would still criticize regardless of the 100,000 jobs. Now, how much attention that criticism gets played in the media and credibility it gets, and how much this impacts political decisions, clearly would likely be reduced compared to what is happening now. But don't think everyone would be swayed by creating jobs or larger investment. 

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59 minutes ago, troeros said:

Also architecture is subjective.

 

Archeticture is art. You will always have people who are divided by how something looks

 

While there may be aesthetic choices that are subjective to architecture, there are many aspects that are not. For example, if the curved glass facade of a building acts a magnifying glass and literally burns people below, that is objectively bad. The architect and their team clearly screwed up. Additionally, architecture is not an art, it is also  scientific and mathematic. The sun example given above is not an issue of subjective artistry, but an issue of scientific response to the environment. Critiquing architecture can be entirely subjective at times, but there are many cases in which a design just utterly falls flat in an objective manner.

Edited by Largue

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1 hour ago, troeros said:

If this wasn't FCC, but rather Amazon building HQ 2 in the West end and building a sparawling super campus in the West end there would be 0 criticisms. 

 

I can not think of a more apples-to-oranges comparison than a stadium vs. a new Amazon campus.

 

If Amazon wanted to build a campus in the West End, it would probably look a lot like the campus they built in Seattle: multiple new-construction buildings mixed into an existing urban neighborhood. Fine-grained urbanism, not megablocks. Preserving the facades of existing historic buildings and building new modern additions on top of them. And supporting the addition of transit-only lanes, bike lanes, bikeshare stations, and traffic calming improvements to the neighborhood.

 

FC Cincinnati acts like it is their god-given right to take ownership of public right of way surrounding the stadium. When Amazon took over public right-of-way around their campus they agreed to invest $5.5 million in transportation infrastructure surrounding their campus, which was used to build new protected bike lanes and purchase an additional streetcar for the Seattle Streetcar system. You think Berding would ever agree to a deal like that?

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45 minutes ago, Moonstruck0 said:

One name for you - Josh Spring

 

Yeah, the guy is annoying and goes overboard often, but good on him for realizing that FCC dug themselves a hole choosing the WE before doing their homework.  In a world where billionaires have leverage 99% of the time, its refreshing to see poor people take advantage of their leverage here. Good for them.

 

They made a dumb business decision choosing the west end, and I'm glad they aren't easily steam-rolling their way out of it.

Edited by 10albersa

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^ Josh Spring does not deserve to be taken seriously. The fact that people continue to negotiate with the clown gives him credibility and power to which he deserves none. If he wanted to be an advocate for the homeless, he should be working to forge a collaborative agreement for their direct benefit instead of pushing for policies that exacerbate their situation.  He is the pied piper and all he does is make the lives of those he promises to help worse. You want to improve homelessness in Cincinnati, the first step is to get rid of Josh Spring.

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53 minutes ago, taestell said:

 

I can not think of a more apples-to-oranges comparison than a stadium vs. a new Amazon campus.

 

If Amazon wanted to build a campus in the West End, it would probably look a lot like the campus they built in Seattle: multiple new-construction buildings mixed into an existing urban neighborhood. Fine-grained urbanism, not megablocks. Preserving the facades of existing historic buildings and building new modern additions on top of them. And supporting the addition of transit-only lanes, bike lanes, bikeshare stations, and traffic calming improvements to the neighborhood.

 

FC Cincinnati acts like it is their god-given right to take ownership of public right of way surrounding the stadium. When Amazon took over public right-of-way around their campus they agreed to invest $5.5 million in transportation infrastructure surrounding their campus, which was used to build new protected bike lanes and purchase an additional streetcar for the Seattle Streetcar system. You think Berding would ever agree to a deal like that?

 

Don't praise those Amazon developments that much. Just try to buy anything around there. You can't since Amazon and overuse of Mommy's Basement apps kept storefront businesses away. So even if it looks mixed use or traditional it isn't really since the downstairs is mostly office.

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FC Cincinnati lands approval for ‘skeleton’ of its $250 million stadium

 

fcdrawingcpcpacket*750xx1683-950-0-0.jpg

 

FC Cincinnati received unanimous approval Friday morning for the superstructure of its $250 million stadium in the West End.

 

Cincinnati Planning Commission voted to approve the final development plan for the stadium and parking garage superstructure for FC Cincinnati’s soccer-specific stadium. The project is expected to come back to the commission two more times. 

 

The final development plan for the final stadium design, which includes the signage, lighting, sound design, landscape, parking, circulation, materials and finishes, number of events, event management and engineering, is expected to go before the commission in August. There also will be a final development plan for the on-site future development.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2019/06/14/fc-cincinnati-lands-approval-for-skeleton-of-its.html


"You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers

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FC Cincinnati to announce new stadium design Tuesday

 

FC Cincinnati has announced it will unveil the latest design for the West End stadium Tuesday morning.

 

After aesthetic redesigns, zoning changes and conflicts with residents on the area over the purchase and planned demolition of apartment buildings in the West End, FC Cincinnati plans to show the public its new design for the home they're planning to build in the West End.

 

https://www.wcpo.com/sports/fc-cincinnati/fc-cincinnati-to-announce-new-stadium-design-tuesday

---------------

Random rumors or r/FCCincinnati state it's quite a departure from previous designs and construction materials. We'll see tomorrow. 

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I love how that giant cell tower pole stays and is so prominent in the rendering! 

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“All truly great thoughts are conceived while walking.”
-Friedrich Nietzsche

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9 minutes ago, JYP said:

I love how that giant cell tower pole stays and is so prominent in the rendering! 

 

That means the stadium will have crystal clear 5G reception for everyone's selfie-posting needs.

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-looks like no street interaction by the stadium at all except for the staircase 

-even the team store is separated from Central Parkway by a parking lot squeezed in there

-looks like the buildings on the south side of Wade are goners 

-the website mentions in more the one place that the stadium is “blocks” from OTR and not right across the street from OTR. Makes it seem like they are not familiar with the area 

-The “fin” concept sort of reminds me of Oculus in NYC

 


www.cincinnatiideas.com

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I'm guessing that surface lot at the north east corner of the stadium is going to remain there until the ballet moves.  

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Lens flare..... check

Search Lights.... check

Iridescent glow.... check

 

What we have here is Vapotecture at its finest !!

Welcome to the big leagues Cincinnati.

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1 minute ago, atlas said:

Yikes. What a sad outcome. That thing needs to be stopped. 

Yeah let's not build one of the nicest soccer stadiums in the country because some people don't like the way it looks from the outside 🙄

 

Do I love the way the exterior looks?  No.  Do I really care what the outside looks like?  No, I care about what the inside looks like.  The reason it's being built is to house soccer matches, not look good from the sidewalk.  This stadium looks like it's going to have a great atmosphere with the huge safe standing area for the bailey, the full bowl of seats and the roof covering fans from rain/keeping in the crowd noise.  That stuff is much more important to me as a fan then then what it looks like from the outside.  

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9 minutes ago, Cincy513 said:

Yeah let's not build one of the nicest soccer stadiums in the country because some people don't like the way it looks from the outside 🙄

 

Do I love the way the exterior looks?  No.  Do I really care what the outside looks like?  No, I care about what the inside looks like.  The reason it's being built is to house soccer matches, not look good from the sidewalk.  This stadium looks like it's going to have a great atmosphere with the huge safe standing area for the bailey, the full bowl of seats and the roof covering fans from rain/keeping in the crowd noise.  That stuff is much more important to me as a fan then then what it looks like from the outside.  

 

Agreed.

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1 hour ago, tonyt3524 said:

Surprise surprise, all the development around it has disappeared into surface lots. 

 

This video was mainly meant to showcase Populous stadium redesign...

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1 minute ago, troeros said:

 

This video was mainly meant to showcase Populous stadium redesign...

 

That''s fair, but it does seem like some of the stuff within the design (team store) won't have things blocking it. But maybe I'm misinterpreting it.

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The stadium looks great! The only thing that needs to be worked on is the landscaping around the Grand Staircase. The inside of this place is going to be magnificent, they are putting in almost 60 Suites WOW.

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8 minutes ago, breakground said:

UGH so disappointing. There is still time to object on lighting and sound issues - wonder how Music Hall tenants and ballet are feeling about the new design.

They both have already gotten their shake down/hush money.  I doubt either makes any additional complaints.  

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I’m sure there will eventually be development around the stadium, think they are just trying to appease the residents for now until they gain more control of the land around it. I personally think it’s the best design they have released. 

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Welp, so much for the whole "we already know what the stadium is going to look like" conversation from a month ago. No need to dig up the old posts, but feeling pretty vindicated over that whole discussion 😗

 

This is really about what I was envisioning we'd get with this stadium. Pretty much right off the shelf, with very little in the way of interesting or unique features. Bland, gray materials, surface lots, very little street interaction. It's not bad looking, but certainly not great. Given their location adjacent to one of the largest historic districts in the country which happens to be almost entirely brick, can someone explain why brick wasn't incorporated into this design? The rendering for Columbus' new stadium incorporated a lot of brick and looks fantastic. This looks like it was designed in 20 minutes for anywhere, USA and then plopped into some renderings in Cincinnati. It's a bit of a bummer, but fairly predictable. 

Edited by edale
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6 minutes ago, edale said:

Welp, so much for the whole "we already know what the stadium is going to look like" conversation from a month ago. No need to dig up the old posts, but feeling pretty vindicated over that whole discussion 😗

 

This is really about what I was envisioning we'd get with this stadium. Pretty much right off the shelf, with very little in the way of interesting or unique features. Bland, gray materials, surface lots, very little street interaction. It's not bad looking, but certainly not great. Given their location adjacent to one of the largest historic districts in the country which happens to be almost entirely brick, can someone explain why brick wasn't incorporated into this design? The rendering for Columbus' new stadium incorporated a lot of brick and looks fantastic. This looks like it was designed in 20 minutes for anywhere, USA and then plopped into some renderings in Cincinnati. It's a bit of a bummer, but fairly predictable. 

I like ours much better, the crews design reminds me of a Kroger marketplace. FCC has a uniqueness about its design.

4C36AEE6-59F3-411E-A2F7-6AFF8CFCFBA0.jpeg

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1 hour ago, Cincy513 said:

I'm guessing that surface lot at the north east corner of the stadium is going to remain there until the ballet moves.  

 

The ownership will probably develop all of the lots to the north and east of the stadium as a later phase, probably after the ballet leaves and after they can acquire that cell phone tower site. There is the potential to build some really nice infill between the stadium and Central Parkway, and I don't care too much that the base of the stadium is pretty borning, since it will be mostly hidden from view after infill is built. Let's just hope that our country doesn't enter a recession in the early 2020s and put all of those infill plans on hold for a decade.

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18 minutes ago, edale said:

Welp, so much for the whole "we already know what the stadium is going to look like" conversation from a month ago. No need to dig up the old posts, but feeling pretty vindicated over that whole discussion 😗

 

This is really about what I was envisioning we'd get with this stadium. Pretty much right off the shelf, with very little in the way of interesting or unique features. Bland, gray materials, surface lots, very little street interaction. It's not bad looking, but certainly not great. Given their location adjacent to one of the largest historic districts in the country which happens to be almost entirely brick, can someone explain why brick wasn't incorporated into this design? The rendering for Columbus' new stadium incorporated a lot of brick and looks fantastic. This looks like it was designed in 20 minutes for anywhere, USA and then plopped into some renderings in Cincinnati. It's a bit of a bummer, but fairly predictable. 

You really think it changed that much?

 

image.png.dc7c61136345c05d2eda6cb0b5dba465.png

image.png.92484331291b68d365b043635f83ab9b.png

 

vs

 

image.png.8ff8f7b8bf3b7cbe53779ed5dfdb5cea.png

image.png.6ae2f1d98e8baa87a2851d18309bbbdd.png

 

 

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