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Cincinnati: West End: FC Cincinnati Stadium

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The owner of Kuhfer's Lofts, RJCPII LLC, just sold for $2.1 million.  The deal recorded on Nov 14.  They bought everything in 2015 for $150,000~.  They probably put $500k into the property between architectural designs, legal, and the two condominiums that they built-out and furnished. 

 

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, thebillshark said:

Why aren’t they using the Tristate building/ballet site, that they paid so much for, for a garage instead? Would cause much less damage to the street grid 

Hopefully, FCC developers are planning some store fronts, a hotel, and village for property along Liberty and the corner of Central Park. Maybe throw in a apartment or two. And hopefully, a nice big hotel and village would attract soccer tournaments and concerts. If the convention center needs a convention hotel, the stadium will need a hotel with surrounding ambiance. I could see a wide curbside park along Liberty, like the park at Broadway and 8th. It would give rise to a street scene that blocked the industrial look of the area. If the church stays, god forbid, the village should have the feel of 19th century Cincinnati. The red brick, the spires, the Italianate facades. Maybe Sam Adams will surprise us and move their headquarters to Cincy. It could be a real draw. The FCC at Sam Adams Stadium. Beer. what makes America great again.

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It’s a question of scale. A large garage could fit in just fine on the corner of Liberty and Central Parkway but instead they are ripping up small human scaled streets and buildings to put in the garage and possible/future/tentative/hey-it-could-happen-maybe generic large scale development and creating an even bigger barrier between OTR and the rest of the West End 

Edited by thebillshark

www.cincinnatiideas.com

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Didn't City council just approve the West end as a TIF district? Wouldn't this probably aid FCC in financing any of their mixed use plans for the FCC site?

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5 hours ago, thebillshark said:

Why aren’t they using the Tristate building/ballet site, that they paid so much for, for a garage instead? Would cause much less damage to the street grid & save 6 nice historic buildings

Timing. The Ballet's new building won't be built in time to move them, demolish the buildings, and build a garage in time for the stadium to open.

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10 hours ago, mcmicken said:

Timing. The Ballet's new building won't be built in time to move them, demolish the buildings, and build a garage in time for the stadium to open.


argghhh! So we lose six buildings well over hundred years old and make permanent negative changes to the street grid over one season (20 events) of parking?!? 
 

edit: and if the Findlay Market location is truck lot north of San Adams (which is unconfirmed but really could be the only place to fit a garage) couldn’t they get started on that one soon? 

Edited by thebillshark

www.cincinnatiideas.com

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13 hours ago, thebillshark said:


argghhh! So we lose six buildings well over hundred years old and make permanent negative changes to the street grid over one season (20 events) of parking?!? 
 

edit: and if the Findlay Market location is truck lot north of San Adams (which is unconfirmed but really could be the only place to fit a garage) couldn’t they get started on that one soon? 

Surface lots north of Elder between Central Pkwy and Campbell Alley. Yes, they could start that immediately. What I have heard is that is what the county has been pushing to start, FC has pushed back because they know if they get by for a whole season without a garage on their doorstep then there will be no political will to do it later (rightly so).

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FC Cincinnati wins City Hall skirmish over West End church

Historic Conservation Board denies landmark status

 

https://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/i-team/fc-cincinnati-wins-city-hall-skirmish-over-west-end-church

 

 

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Does anyone on this board know anybody that works with FCC?   Is there anyway we can get in somebodies ear and try to explain to them the value of keeping the historic structures on Wade/Bauer?

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10 minutes ago, ucgrady said:

I don't know why they didn't just pick the Oakley location if this was the intention all along. 

 

MLS thought oakley was to suburban. Most mls stadiums are nowadays built in cities urban cores. 

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Man, to bad some of y'all weren't around when 1-75 was being built and literally destroyed all of the West end. 

 

Losing historic buildings suck, but we lost the West end decades ago. Let's say a toast to the west end and look to the future. 

 

We will all die soon. Some of us 20-30 maybe 40 years? I've always been curious how Cincinnati would look like in the year 2100. I always imagined it would look like blade runner. Neon lights everywhere, hover cars. 

 

We are in this world for a blink of time. Nothing last forever and neither do we. Like the old buildings being demolished, soon gravity and time will demolish us as well. 

 

Nothing lasts forever. One day all of this historic treasures in the world will also be dust once the sun Super Nova's 

 

So enjoy the ride. Appreciate the past. Look to the future. Can't do anything about an outcome? Move on, nothing else you can do really. The more time you waste the less time you have to gain. There is always light, even in darkness. Sometimes.

 

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51 minutes ago, troeros said:

Man, to bad some of y'all weren't around when 1-75 was being built and literally destroyed all of the West end. 

 

Losing historic buildings suck, but we lost the West end decades ago. Let's say a toast to the west end and look to the future. 

 

We will all die soon. Some of us 20-30 maybe 40 years? I've always been curious how Cincinnati would look like in the year 2100. I always imagined it would look like blade runner. Neon lights everywhere, hover cars. 

 

We are in this world for a blink of time. Nothing last forever and neither do we. Like the old buildings being demolished, soon gravity and time will demolish us as well. 

 

Nothing lasts forever. One day all of this historic treasures in the world will also be dust once the sun Super Nova's 

 

So enjoy the ride. Appreciate the past. Look to the future. Can't do anything about an outcome? Move on, nothing else you can do really. The more time you waste the less time you have to gain. There is always light, even in darkness. Sometimes.

 

 

If city leaders had an attitude like this, OTR would look more like The Banks right now than an actual urban neighborhood.

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I-75 destroyed the West End at a time when "social services" meant sending a funeria around to pick up the indigent's body, or placing the orphaned children in a orphanage. We should be more enlightened today. But, instead, many of you championed the intrusion into what was left of the West End by the ugliest, most pointless structure ever to be built in a residential area and soon to be run by a crowd of the most careless aristocracy one could conjure up. The FCC atrocity belonged at I-74 and I-275 or further out.

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They're knocking down like 7 buildings.  Some are you are acting like an entire neighborhood of hundreds of buildings are being destroyed.  

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1 hour ago, Cincy513 said:

They're knocking down like 7 buildings.  Some are you are acting like an entire neighborhood of hundreds of buildings are being destroyed.  

They've already knocked down 15 buildings, with more on the way. They have removed Central Ave, forever disrupting the street grid and are now trying to knock down a church that has stood there for 154 years and is tied not only to the built environment of the neighborhood but to the history of reform Judaism. Is it hyperbolic to say they should've just built in Oakley? Maybe; but it's also worth noting that they wanted to be in the urban core, yet are destroying the fabric of said core with each new wave.

 

I hope to be pleasantly surprised by the concrete base, Central Parkway steps, and parking structure/mixed use development that may ultimately face Liberty. I'm not holding my breath. 

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It should be added that they got the vacated streets for free.   Not only Central Ave. but Providence St., the 300 and 400 blocks of Wade, and the 300 block of 15th.  

 

All told this is approximately 140,000 square feet of land, or 3.5 acres.  For free.  That's before the police parking lot that they're getting for free, which is probably another acre.  

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2 hours ago, Cincy513 said:

They're knocking down like 7 buildings.  Some are you are acting like an entire neighborhood of hundreds of buildings are being destroyed.  

As someone said, first it's 7 buildings. Then it's an entire block, then an entire neighborhood. It's demolition creep and I don't doubt many people invested in this stadium project echo a sentiment in this thread that the West End is "lost" and should just be razed and rebuilt. That's how you end up with a disjointed and unlivable basin that's just a playground for suburbanites.

Edited by cincyquaker

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FC Cincinnati reveals construction progress on new stadium 

 

fccv1westendstadiumaerial-view-from-se-d

 

FC Cincinnati’s new soccer stadium has shifted from the idea stage and groundwork to full-blown construction site with steel rising from the ground.

 

The club’s first media tour of the West End stadium showed off the progress that makes it clear where the stadium will sit, where the field will be and how it’s situated in the neighborhood. The tour was conducted on the one-year anniversary of the groundbreaking for the $250 million team-financed stadium.

 

“We’re seeing steel start to go vertical,” FC Cincinnati president Jeff Berding said. “That represents what will be a historic, state-of-the-art stadium.”

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2019/12/18/fc-cincinnati-reveals-construction-progress-on-new.html


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On 12/6/2019 at 11:31 AM, ucgrady said:

They've already knocked down 15 buildings, with more on the way. They have removed Central Ave, forever disrupting the street grid and are now trying to knock down a church that has stood there for 154 years and is tied not only to the built environment of the neighborhood but to the history of reform Judaism. Is it hyperbolic to say they should've just built in Oakley? Maybe; but it's also worth noting that they wanted to be in the urban core, yet are destroying the fabric of said core with each new wave.

 

I hope to be pleasantly surprised by the concrete base, Central Parkway steps, and parking structure/mixed use development that may ultimately face Liberty. I'm not holding my breath. 

 

Im not justifying the demolition, but if you want to find a positive angle, I do think that this stadium will directly result in a significant investment in some of the parts of the neighborhood that are more in tact- hopefully indirectly preserving other historic fabric for our future generations to enjoy. 

 

Again, I wish they could work with these structures but I also think that the project will jump start redevelopment that was not going to start on its own with much momentum. Sadly, we definitely could have had it both ways...

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^Actually, Kuhfer's Lofts did start on its own in 2015, before there was any rumor of a stadium.  Now those finished-but-never-occupied condominiums will be demolished.  It's crazy.  

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Chris Wetterich is reporting that a tentative deal has been struck between the County and FCC to build two garages. 850 spaces at the stadium site and 300 spaces at Findlay Market. 

 

 

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300 space garage around Findlay is a nice addition for all the retail in that area.  Still hope they put an underground garage at Findlay Playground.  

Edited by Cincy513

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Just now, troeros said:

Which lot will this go at Findlay?

 

They're going to close the market for a year while they dig a garage.  The disassembled market will be kept in storage in the Transit Center.  

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3 hours ago, troeros said:

Which lot will this go at Findlay?

If its the same one I've heard about for a while, 2 parking lots on north side of Elder between Central Parkway and Campbell Street. Portion of Logan will be turned into a dead end from Findlay.

 

I think the bigger question is will it be a dumb garage or will there be ground floor retail or other urban friendly design features?

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1 hour ago, mcmicken said:

If its the same one I've heard about for a while, 2 parking lots on north side of Elder between Central Parkway and Campbell Street. Portion of Logan will be turned into a dead end from Findlay.

 

I think the bigger question is will it be a dumb garage or will there be ground floor retail or other urban friendly design features?

 

Im pretty sure the only land that is publicly controlled is the north lot and Findlay Playground. The existing lot along Logan is being developed by Urban Sites and the newer one across the street is controlled by Model Group (via the Port)..

 

Hopefully it can be wrapped by infill. 

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38 minutes ago, ZoeBarnes said:

 

Im pretty sure the only land that is publicly controlled is the north lot and Findlay Playground. The existing lot along Logan is being developed by Urban Sites and the newer one across the street is controlled by Model Group (via the Port)..

 

Hopefully it can be wrapped by infill. 

 

Which lot is the ""north lot"?

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County, FC Cincinnati strike parking garage deal; taxpayer subsidy rises

 

Hamilton County will build two garages that will serve FC Cincinnati on game days – one on the stadium site itself and another at Findlay Market – ending a protracted negotiation with the club, the Business Courier has learned.

 

The county commissioners are expected to vote on the deal, which is expected to cost about $27 million, at their final meeting of 2019 Thursday night.

 

The county will build about 850 spaces at the West End stadium site itself and another 300 at Findlay Market. The club will get the vast majority of the game day revenue, while the county will receive the money on other days. But if the garages have financial difficulties, the team’s game day share will be reduced during certain periods.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2019/12/19/county-fc-cincinnati-strike-parking-garage-deal.html


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12 hours ago, mcmicken said:

If its the same one I've heard about for a while, 2 parking lots on north side of Elder between Central Parkway and Campbell Street. Portion of Logan will be turned into a dead end from Findlay.

 

I think the bigger question is will it be a dumb garage or will there be ground floor retail or other urban friendly design features?

 

If true, that would make it the 6th street cut or eliminated as part of FC's grand plan for an urban stadium. 


“All truly great thoughts are conceived while walking.”
-Friedrich Nietzsche

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12 hours ago, mcmicken said:

If its the same one I've heard about for a while, 2 parking lots on north side of Elder between Central Parkway and Campbell Street. Portion of Logan will be turned into a dead end from Findlay.

 

I think the bigger question is will it be a dumb garage or will there be ground floor retail or other urban friendly design features?

 

Isn't that land being used by Urban Sites for a new mixed use office/residential project? It just received tax incentives by city council for the project. 

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22 minutes ago, troeros said:

 

Isn't that land being used by Urban Sites for a new mixed use office/residential project? It just received tax incentives by city council for the project. 

 

You're confusing the lot to the south of Elder which was awarded to CMHA and Urban Sites via the City's RFP. See red outline in attached image. 

 

The lots to the north of Elder are owned by Model Group and is where the new County/FCC garage is proposed. As @mcmicken pointed out, the lots span Logan St, so there's a big question of if/how the garage design would handle that. See blue outline in attached image.

 

 

 

image.thumb.png.fed465f14007f39b5d9dd32029027786.png

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12 hours ago, ZoeBarnes said:

 

Im pretty sure the only land that is publicly controlled is the north lot and Findlay Playground. The existing lot along Logan is being developed by Urban Sites and the newer one across the street is controlled by Model Group (via the Port)..

 

Hopefully it can be wrapped by infill. 

But the city owns the north Findlay lot and is not part of the deal. As @jwulsin stated the Model lots on the north side of Elder are the location.

Edited by mcmicken

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2 hours ago, JYP said:

 

If true, that would make it the 6th street cut or eliminated as part of FC's grand plan for an urban stadium. 

 

Yeah, it's pretty ridiculous. The only silver lining is that maybe the existing Logan Street curb cut can be used as the garage entrance/exit, so that we don't make the pedestrian experience in that part of the neighborhood significantly worse.

 

Also, I hope that Model Group is planning to use some of the parking in this building to support their redevelopment of the Parkway Towers building and eventually the construction of a new building on the vacant lot to the north (SE corner of Findlay Street and Central Parkway).

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11 hours ago, mcmicken said:

But the city owns the north Findlay lot and is not part of the deal. As @jwulsin stated the Model lots on the north side of Elder are the location.

 

@jwulsin where did you see that? I read that it was a 'yet to be disclosed site'..

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1 hour ago, ZoeBarnes said:

 

@jwulsin where did you see that? I read that it was a 'yet to be disclosed site'..


that’s the problem with this whole process- when they finally reveal the site and it turns out to be a terrible plan there will not be time for anyone to do anything about it and there will not be any chance for any other options to be pursued

Edited by thebillshark
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www.cincinnatiideas.com

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Blocking off Logan with an above ground garage would be a bad outcome. With all the billionaires and tax money involved in this we should be getting better outcomes.

 

a better outcome would be an underground garage underneath Logan leaving it intact with infill development above.  You know, adding more people and businesses in Over the Rhine. 
 

a better outcome would be building the garage just across Central Parkway from the market in this giant empty gravel lot and leaving the street grid intact.

 

 

10A152BE-4D1C-4669-A3D3-AF2DDE8176A3.jpeg

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www.cincinnatiideas.com

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52 minutes ago, thebillshark said:

Blocking off Logan with an above ground garage would be a bad outcome. With all the billionaires and tax money involved in this we should be getting better outcomes.

 

a better outcome would be an underground garage underneath Logan leaving it intact with infill development above.  You know, adding more people and businesses in Over the Rhine. 
 

a better outcome would be building the garage just across Central Parkway from the market in this giant empty gravel lot and leaving the street grid intact.

 

 

10A152BE-4D1C-4669-A3D3-AF2DDE8176A3.jpeg

 

Chicken or the egg. 

 

Hard to attract new Businesses/residential without parking. Findlay market has been struggling with parking for years and even more so lately and this has affected business/residential developement. 

 

Cutting off logan is less than ideal, but north of liberty, especially the area around Findlay needs a parking boost if we want to see continued investment.

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^None of what you said is actually a response to what I said.
 

I’d love to see a parking garage near Findlay Market but I think blocking off Logan St. is a bad idea. 

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www.cincinnatiideas.com

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3 minutes ago, breakground said:

This loss of public ROW will require approvals and provides opportunity for suggesting alternatives.


that’s not the way this stadium project has been operating so far. Every step of this project has been an ultimatum on a deadline.

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www.cincinnatiideas.com

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10 hours ago, troeros said:

 

Chicken or the egg. 

 

Hard to attract new Businesses/residential without parking. Findlay market has been struggling with parking for years and even more so lately and this has affected business/residential developement. 

 

Cutting off logan is less than ideal, but north of liberty, especially the area around Findlay needs a parking boost if we want to see continued investment.


And here, once again, we have the typical Cincinnati attitude. The powerful know best, we can't do anything above and beyond (or even on the level of our peer cities), and we must railroad through 1980s style projects at the behest of our wonderful old-money benefactors. 

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11 hours ago, troeros said:

 

Chicken or the egg. 

 

Hard to attract new Businesses/residential without parking. Findlay market has been struggling with parking for years and even more so lately and this has affected business/residential developement. 

 

Cutting off logan is less than ideal, but north of liberty, especially the area around Findlay needs a parking boost if we want to see continued investment.

It has? Pretty sure the amount of development in and around Findlay Market has been speeding up not slowing down? I don’t know why  people think that they have to park right next to where they want to go. When I go down to Findlay Market I park further down in OTR and take the streetcar. There’s multiple ways to get to any place in downtown/OTR other than driving. Downtown/OTR was never meant to be a car needed neighborhood and it never should be. 

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16 hours ago, ZoeBarnes said:

 

@jwulsin where did you see that? I read that it was a 'yet to be disclosed site'..


OTR Community Council presentation by Joe Hansbauer, of Findlay Market. 

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