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Cincinnati: West End: FC Cincinnati Stadium

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2 minutes ago, ryanlammi said:


There are no plans to make this stadium expandable. The current capacity is the largest it is planned to ever be.

 

Wasn't there discussion of potentially adding more seats in the future? I could've sworn that was discussed at some point by fcc 

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23 minutes ago, JYP said:


I think the "East Stadium Garage" is only going to be one floor of parking with a plaza on top. I don't think it actually goes under the stadium itself. The "West Stadium Parking Lot" is likely permanent (all things can change eventually, so obviously it could be built up in 10 years, but no plans to do so). The temporary parking on the north is likely to be built up in 5-10 years, but I don't expect it to happen extremely quickly. I imagine they'll wait until they are a couple of years into the new stadium before they explore that.

 

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1 minute ago, troeros said:

 

Wasn't there discussion of potentially adding more seats in the future? I could've sworn that was discussed at some point by fcc 

 

It was early on, but that was when they were talking about a 22-25k stadium. They were looking at leaving out a few sections and expanding it at a later date. They decided to pull the trigger and just build all 28k at the start. It won't expand beyond that. It's not being designed to be expanded.

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2 minutes ago, troeros said:

 

The neighborhood was ALREADY ruined. Looking at Google maps there was nothing but giant prairie sized empty lots, and a few scattered historic structures here and there. I understand if FCC was building the stadium right in the middle of otr and destroying the entire fabric...but the West end? There is hardly any fabric to speak of. It was all destroyed during the creation of thr interstates.


this is false. Wade and Bauer are equivalent of any OTR streets you wax ecstatic about. Plenty of them had huge gaping holes before redevelopment started. 1500 block of Race street comes to mind 

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I doubt the west side parking will ever go. Those are most likely for suites, press, players, FCC staff and other VIP folks. The east side lot will also probably be for these kind of folks. Big spenders and other VIP type. I guess they're adding this other 1,000 garage for season ticket holders in lower bowl pitch side seats. Like I said, it's obviously not ideal as is, but hopefully with ballet moving that corner will be developed into some nice house/retailing at some point. 

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Seriously some of you are crying a little too much about the West End being ruined and gutted.  There wasn't anything in this current space due to decisions made decades ago.  The stadium is taking up space for what use to be, checks notes, another stadium!  If you didn't think they were going to build a garage nearby for a new 26k stadium, in Cincinnati, then you're out of touch with reality. 

 

 

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If FCC had any vision, they would restore the historic buildings left on Wade and Bauer, infill appropriately, and call the area FCC Village or something.  It could rather easily rival the banks.  Fans could party there before games.

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8 minutes ago, JoeHarmon said:

If FCC had any vision, they would restore the historic buildings left on Wade and Bauer, infill appropriately, and call the area FCC Village or something.  It could rather easily rival the banks.  Fans could party there before games.

 

But doesn't that defeat the purpose of the buffet of entertainment offerings in otr?

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13 minutes ago, Cincy513 said:

Seriously some of you are crying a little too much about the West End being ruined and gutted.  There wasn't anything in this current space due to decisions made decades ago.  The stadium is taking up space for what use to be, checks notes, another stadium!  If you didn't think they were going to build a garage nearby for a new 26k stadium, in Cincinnati, then you're out of touch with reality. 

 

 

 

9 minutes ago, JoeHarmon said:

If FCC had any vision, they would restore the historic buildings left on Wade and Bauer, infill appropriately, and call the area FCC Village or something.  It could rather easily rival the banks.  Fans could party there before games.

 

There was (and maybe still is) a pathway between both of these positions where FC would improve their plans, incorporate the remaining historic fabric of the block and develop a win/win that balances their needs, preserves whats left of this part of the West End and creates a place north of the stadium that is appreciated by fans and neighbors. Instead we will get superblocks of parking and blank walls. We make the same mistakes because we don't demand better. Shame on us.


“All truly great thoughts are conceived while walking.”
-Friedrich Nietzsche

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I don't see it as zero sum.  It would add to the urban fabric.  Some people could party there, some in OTR.    Plus, on non-gamedays, there would be something there other than parking.  Ultimately, there would be THERE there.  its about placemaking.

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19 minutes ago, thebillshark said:


this is false. Wade and Bauer are equivalent of any OTR streets you wax ecstatic about. Plenty of them had huge gaping holes before redevelopment started. 1500 block of Race street comes to mind 

 

I'm looking at Google maps and wr are literally talking about a handful of remaining buildings scattered about..I'm not sure how this is anywhere near the ballpark of otr?

 

The 1500 block of race was a rough demolished block for sure, but it's not like otr is defined by that block. What makes otr great are the stretches of fabric that exist on Elm Street, Republic, Vine, Clay, Walnut, Main, Pendelton, etc.

 

OTR is beautiful because it's not a block of historic buildings, but literally a mini European like town/village. That has enough remaining fabric to make you feel like your in a different environment all together. 

 

The West end was deciminated decades ago and crying over a few scattered buildings is worthless. The city screwed up and destroyed a beautiful area our urban core. I'm not crying over these buildings because there was no sense of time or place. Just giant prairie lots and a few dangling teeth hanging off the jaw.

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2 minutes ago, JoeHarmon said:

I don't see it as zero sum.  It would add to the urban fabric.  Some people could party there, some in OTR.    Plus, on non-gamedays, there would be something there other than parking.  Ultimately, there would be THERE there.  its about placemaking.

 

Besides FCC is still going to create a second phase of mixed use buildings along the stadium with hotels/residential/retail etc.

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Just now, troeros said:

 

Besides FCC is still going to create a second phase of mixed use buildings along the stadium with hotels/residential/retail etc.

Wade and Bauer offer small tight streets and alleyways that were built on a pedestrian scale.  If you infill there, and restore the few remaining historic buildings, you will get a nice PLACE that people will want to hang out in because it feels right.   Central parkway is huge.  Whatever they might build facing Central will not be a comfortable place.  It will not be pedestrian in scale.    For comparison, the retail spaces on 2nd street at the banks just fail one business after another.  The spaces on Freedom Way have been far more successful.     Honestly, having small tight streets is maybe even more valuable than historic buildings.  While it is hard to get good infill, it is impossible to get small skinny streets built.  As soon as DOTE is brought in, massive wide road comes second.   We should NEVER support removing smaller road sections in the urban core.

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1 minute ago, JoeHarmon said:

Wade and Bauer offer small tight streets and alleyways that were built on a pedestrian scale.  If you infill there, and restore the few remaining historic buildings, you will get a nice PLACE that people will want to hang out in because it feels right.   Central parkway is huge.  Whatever they might build facing Central will not be a comfortable place.  It will not be pedestrian in scale.    For comparison, the retail spaces on 2nd street at the banks just fail one business after another.  The spaces on Freedom Way have been far more successful.     Honestly, having small tight streets is maybe even more valuable than historic buildings.  While it is hard to get good infill, it is impossible to get small skinny streets built.  As soon as DOTE is brought in, massive wide road comes second.   We should NEVER support removing smaller road sections in the urban core.

 

I agree. Luckily stadiums aren't built every day, and I don't think there are any other major projects in cincinnati's horizon that will be this involved with the street scape. 

 

Granted if this was Amazon HQ 2 with 50,000 new jobs in our urban core, with jeff bezos personally promising new light rail that he would finance all over greater cincinnati than we at urbanohio would probably care less with what amazon destroys in it's wake. 

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Let's be realistic here guys. This is the area we're talking about. Much of it is already taken up by a parking lot. The buildings on Wade would be directly facing the stadium so they'd be a hard sell for residential. It's possible the team is going to work the buildings on Bauer and Central Parkway into the garage. Overall, we're also talking about a pretty small footprint for a garage of that size. 

 

I'm as anti-parking as anybody but this doesn't seem like a huge deal to me. 

 

EDIT TO ADD: On Bauer, the Hair Design building is really the only one worth saving.

WadeBauer.JPG

Edited by DEPACincy
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35 minutes ago, troeros said:

 

I'm looking at Google maps and wr are literally talking about a handful of remaining buildings scattered about..I'm not sure how this is anywhere near the ballpark of otr?

 

The 1500 block of race was a rough demolished block for sure, but it's not like otr is defined by that block. What makes otr great are the stretches of fabric that exist on Elm Street, Republic, Vine, Clay, Walnut, Main, Pendelton, etc.

 

OTR is beautiful because it's not a block of historic buildings, but literally a mini European like town/village. That has enough remaining fabric to make you feel like your in a different environment all together. 

 

The West end was deciminated decades ago and crying over a few scattered buildings is worthless. The city screwed up and destroyed a beautiful area our urban core. I'm not crying over these buildings because there was no sense of time or place. Just giant prairie lots and a few dangling teeth hanging off the jaw.

 

Those "dangling teeth" are important because they tie the neighborhood back to its history and break up the potential monotony of a block scale development.

 

 So much urban infill is monolithic 5+1 retail/parking/apartment across the country. We are in a rush towards "anywhere urbanism" and these buildings, though few in number, can help break that up. 

 

And sure, there are ways to incorporate parking into this. It will be expensive but more worthwhile to do this right instead of fast and cheap. 

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“All truly great thoughts are conceived while walking.”
-Friedrich Nietzsche

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The 35x90 lot at the NW corner of Wade & Central Ave. just sold for $225,000.  This is more than has paid for any similarly-sized lot in OTR.  And this...for a parking garage.

 

As you can see, Odd Lots, LLC got this lot for free from the Auditor.  I attempted to buy this lot in 2017 but got no response from the LLC, who was located in a car dealership up in Reading.  I did have a lot just north of here under contract for $8,400 but that deal fell through.  I did own 411 & 413 and sold them for 9x what I bought them for, but it looks like I could have sold them for 18x what I bought them for if I had waited a few more months.  

oddlots.JPG

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14 minutes ago, JYP said:

 

Those "dangling teeth" are important because they tie the neighborhood back to its history and break up the potential monotony of a block scale development.

 

 So much urban infill is monolithic 5+1 retail/parking/apartment across the country. We are in a rush towards "anywhere urbanism" and these buildings, though few in number, can help break that up. 

 

And sure, there are ways to incorporate parking into this. It will be expensive but more worthwhile to do this right instead of fast and cheap. 

 

I agree with the monotony comment..But say if I'm a real estate developer (not fcc related), and wanted to build a new mixed use structure in that location...what motivation would I have to cling on to these buildings if I could demolish them and building something taller and more dense with more residential units in it's place, plus gain more profit in return? 

 

The old west end, that resides north next to north of liberty otr is more important imo. There are still alot of streets left with great historic fabric intact, and some fabulous architecture. 

 

 

 

 

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The County, which is funding the garage(s), has stated they'd prefer two 500-car garages, with one not directly adjacent to the stadium. I'm hoping the County pushes hard for the "two stadium" approach, as opposed to a single 1000-car garage. 

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20 minutes ago, jmecklenborg said:

The 35x90 lot at the NW corner of Wade & Central Ave. just sold for $225,000.  This is more than has paid for any similarly-sized lot in OTR.  And this...for a parking garage.

 

As you can see, Odd Lots, LLC got this lot for free from the Auditor.  I attempted to buy this lot in 2017 but got no response from the LLC, who was located in a car dealership up in Reading.  I did have a lot just north of here under contract for $8,400 but that deal fell through.  I did own 411 & 413 and sold them for 9x what I bought them for, but it looks like I could have sold them for 18x what I bought them for if I had waited a few more months.  

oddlots.JPG

That 225k will easily be made back from the parking garage profits.  A garage that the team doesn't have to pay for, the county is supposed to foot the bill.  1,000 spots times conservatively $20/spot equals 20k profit per game.  So in just their first season they'll make almost 350k off this garage.  

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1) We don't know who Odd Lots LLC was. The fact that it sold for $0 implies to me that it wasn't actually a real transaction. Just as the previous 4 were not real transactions. My guess is David Gershuny created Odd Lots LLC to hold the property after he acquired it from a deceased relative or something.

 

2) The sale price could have included additional lots (maybe even a couple that aren't in the immediate area for all I know). The auditor's site doesn't differentiate when you purchase multiple parcels. If there were 3 parcels that all sold to WC Group Holdings, each individual parcel would show up as being sold for $255,000. That doesn't mean the group paid $765,000 total ($255k * 3).

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50 minutes ago, DEPACincy said:

Let's be realistic here guys. This is the area we're talking about. Much of it is already taken up by a parking lot. The buildings on Wade would be directly facing the stadium so they'd be a hard sell for residential. It's possible the team is going to work the buildings on Bauer and Central Parkway into the garage. Overall, we're also talking about a pretty small footprint for a garage of that size. 

 

I'm as anti-parking as anybody but this doesn't seem like a huge deal to me. 

 

EDIT TO ADD: On Bauer, the Hair Design building is really the only one worth saving.

WadeBauer.JPG

 

 

But it's not just that one block.  The stadium does not come up to Wade Street.   The Jehovah's Witness building is also supposed to be turned into a parking lot.  So you could have new infill on the south side of Wade.  Plus you can rehab the old Baptist Church and all the older buildings on the North side of Bauer.  Plus reconfigure the Block with the Ballet building.   When I spoke of creating an FCC Village type area, I meant through out this whole area:

 

image.thumb.png.7bada48ceb31c66ae4619f68d2caf2e4.png

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3 minutes ago, ryanlammi said:

1) We don't know who Odd Lots LLC was. The fact that it sold for $0 implies to me that it wasn't actually a real transaction. Just as the previous 4 were not real transactions. My guess is David Gershuny created Odd Lots LLC to hold the property after he acquired it from a deceased relative or something.

 

I do.  I researched it 30 months ago.  It was an LLC created to hold about 15 lots they got in the auditor's forfeiture in 2015.  The previous owner of the lot, along with everything Odd Lots owns, didn't pay taxes.  The mailing address was and still is the car dealership organization in this building:

  https://www.google.com/maps/@39.2117865,-84.4515348,3a,46.3y,143.06h,92.82t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sop3_UBfseKV-XkqvcRA1Pg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

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55 minutes ago, jmecklenborg said:

 

I do.  I researched it 30 months ago.  It was an LLC created to hold about 15 lots they got in the auditor's forfeiture in 2015.  The previous owner of the lot, along with everything Odd Lots owns, didn't pay taxes.  The mailing address was and still is the car dealership organization in this building:

  https://www.google.com/maps/@39.2117865,-84.4515348,3a,46.3y,143.06h,92.82t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sop3_UBfseKV-XkqvcRA1Pg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192


Implying they got it for free is weird, though. I don't think that's the case.

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1 hour ago, jwulsin said:

The County, which is funding the garage(s), has stated they'd prefer two 500-car garages, with one not directly adjacent to the stadium. I'm hoping the County pushes hard for the "two stadium" approach, as opposed to a single 1000-car garage. 

From what I have heard the county has been playing hardball with FCC on this. I haven't heard an update for a while, but the county was pushing hard to build the first garage near Findlay, then the second near the stadium at a later date. FCC was fighting this because if the garage next to the stadium doesn't get built by the time the stadium opened, the stadium would open and everyone would figure out they didn't need a second garage and the county could say they were off the hook. With the upcoming retirement of Portune who has a well earned skepticism of professional sports teams, I could see a Cranley associated commissioner like Reece backing off that stance and giving away the farm to FCC.

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1 hour ago, JoeHarmon said:

 

 

But it's not just that one block.  The stadium does not come up to Wade Street.   The Jehovah's Witness building is also supposed to be turned into a parking lot.  So you could have new infill on the south side of Wade.  Plus you can rehab the old Baptist Church and all the older buildings on the North side of Bauer.  Plus reconfigure the Block with the Ballet building.   When I spoke of creating an FCC Village type area, I meant through out this whole area:

 

image.thumb.png.7bada48ceb31c66ae4619f68d2caf2e4.png

 

But how do we know that's not exactly what they are planning to do? They aren't removing Bauer Avenue. And as far as we know they aren't tearing down the buildings north of it, so those could still be rehabbed. We don't know what the plan is at all, only that there will be a garage (could even be mixed use?) on the block bounded by Central, John, (soon to be former) Wade, and Bauer. Maybe they plan to have ground floor retail in the garage and build residential north of Bauer and have Bauer be a focal point. Maybe they plan to build residential as a part of the redevelopment of the ballet site? Who knows? 

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4 hours ago, JYP said:

Those "dangling teeth" are important because they tie the neighborhood back to its history and break up the potential monotony of a block scale development.

This is exactly what I was going to say. Having existing buildings to work around makes new developments harder but it also makes them better. Even if the buildings ultimately get wrapped up into a larger building like 15th and Vine it still accomplishes the goal of preserving the historic facade, breaking up the mass and making the building unique. 

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They said they want to buy and build over that section of Wade between John and Central Ave.  You do that and now you've lost the ability to have a super cool dare I say "European" feeling area of small streets on a tight street grid.   

 

If they really wanted to make this small area pop, so the stadium feels like a cool European stadium nestled into a neighborhood, when they tear down the TriState wholesale/ballet building, they should extend Bauer over to Central Parkway as a Pedestrian only street.

 

I guess maybe I am wrong and they will do something fun like this.  But every design we have seen to date shows this as standard American stadium, with nothing about it that references the architecture around it, and surrounded by as much parking as possible.

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5 hours ago, troeros said:

 

The city screwed up and destroyed a beautiful area our urban core. I'm not crying over these buildings because there was no sense of time or place. Just giant prairie lots and a few dangling teeth hanging off the jaw.

 

Yeah, it's certainly no Norwood. 🙄

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https://www.citybeat.com/news/blog/21067795/tensions-continue-over-housing-as-key-votes-approach-for-west-end-fc-cincinnati-stadium?utm_source=featurefollow&utm_medium=home&utm_campaign=hpfeatures

 

There is a chance FCC doesn't even get their zoning change requestion due to this pending issue. FCC isn't willing to compromise about the relocation and I doubt city council will allow this to pass without a reasonable solution. 

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6 hours ago, DEPACincy said:

 

But how do we know that's not exactly what they are planning to do? They aren't removing Bauer Avenue. And as far as we know they aren't tearing down the buildings north of it, so those could still be rehabbed. We don't know what the plan is at all, only that there will be a garage (could even be mixed use?) on the block bounded by Central, John, (soon to be former) Wade, and Bauer. Maybe they plan to have ground floor retail in the garage and build residential north of Bauer and have Bauer be a focal point. Maybe they plan to build residential as a part of the redevelopment of the ballet site? Who knows? 


When is enough enough? It is just a bit of land, they said, when the Mt. Adams incline right of way was sold off. Just a small breezeway, they say, as PNC erases the fountain square pedestrian cut through to Walnut. Just one block, they say, as the convention center eats up Elm. Just one more block, you say, as the FC Stadium demolishes what’s left of a historic block of rows. 
 

Death by a thousand cuts. Except the city has been cutting itself since the 50s. This isn’t about one block, it’s about the obliteration of the historic grain, which includes individual buildings with their beautiful cornices, but also a walkable intersection density, connectivity through mega blocks, narrow street widths and diversity of land ownership. This is yet another example of the homogenization of the city centre and it will keep happening until it’s stopped. 

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27 minutes ago, atlas said:


When is enough enough? It is just a bit of land, they said, when the Mt. Adams incline right of way was sold off. Just a small breezeway, they say, as PNC erases the fountain square pedestrian cut through to Walnut. Just one block, they say, as the convention center eats up Elm. Just one more block, you say, as the FC Stadium demolishes what’s left of a historic block of rows. 
 

Death by a thousand cuts. Except the city has been cutting itself since the 50s. This isn’t about one block, it’s about the obliteration of the historic grain, which includes individual buildings with their beautiful cornices, but also a walkable intersection density, connectivity through mega blocks, narrow street widths and diversity of land ownership. This is yet another example of the homogenization of the city centre and it will keep happening until it’s stopped. 

 

You realize everything changes right?  Nothing is permenant nothing lasts forever. Cincinnati was once nothing but forest and land..then settlers came and built simple wooden structures, then those simple structures were torn down for more complex structures and so on and so forth...Even this Earth will one day be nothing but dust.

 

Accept change, for that's the only thing consistent about life. Nothing is permenant. So why get worked up about it? Life is to short to care about things you don't have control over anyways. 

 

Embrace the time you live in 2019. For one day humans from the year 2200 will learn, study, and document our roads, our archeticture, our art, our way of life, similarly to how we look back at our ancestors in the 1800's.

Edited by troeros

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2 minutes ago, troeros said:

 

You realize everything changes right?  Nothing is permenant nothing lasts forever. Cincinnati was once nothing but forest and land..then settlers came and built simple wooden structures, then those simple structures were torn down for more complex structures and so on and so forth...Even this Earth will one day be nothing but dust.

 

Accept change, for that's the only thing consistent about life. Nothing is permenant. So why get worked up about it? Life is to short to care about things you don't have control over anyways. 

 

Embrace the time you live in 2019. For one day humans from the year year 2200 will look at our roads, our archeticture, our art, our way of life similarly to how we look at our ancestors in the 1800's.

Once you lose land to private interests, it is nearly impossible to get it back for public use. 
 

And I’m all for positive change, which means advocating and arguing for positive outcomes. I get that it’s easier to put your hands up and just say: well, it is the way it is. But that attitude leads to mediocre outcomes, which is what we’re seeing here. And I’d argue this outcome is sub-mediocre. In fact, this isn’t a ‘future forward’ change. This looks like something out of the 1980s. So if anything, I’m against going back in time and pretending there will magically be a different outcome than similar efforts we’ve seen in the past. I truly hope I’m wrong. 
 

I see you waxing on and on about safety in the centre city and wonder when it will ‘truly’ turn the corner. These sorts of decisions are why the city doesn’t ‘feel’ safe in some corners. No eyes on the streets which comes from a mix of uses, diversity of ownership, small blocks, etc. This isn’t an opinion - we know this to be true. 
 

You need to build for urbanity. If you plan for people and place, you’ll get people and place. If you plan for cars, you’ll get cars. 

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On one hand you say - I love Cincinnati’s compactness. And on the other you say - yea it’s cool if said compactness is destroyed. 🤷🏼‍♂️

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28 minutes ago, atlas said:

Once you lose land to private interests, it is nearly impossible to get it back for public use. 
 

And I’m all for positive change, which means advocating and arguing for positive outcomes. I get that it’s easier to put your hands up and just say: well, it is the way it is. But that attitude leads to mediocre outcomes, which is what we’re seeing here. And I’d argue this outcome is sub-mediocre. In fact, this isn’t a ‘future forward’ change. This looks like something out of the 1980s. So if anything, I’m against going back in time and pretending there will magically be a different outcome than similar efforts we’ve seen in the past. I truly hope I’m wrong. 
 

I see you waxing on and on about safety in the centre city and wonder when it will ‘truly’ turn the corner. These sorts of decisions are why the city doesn’t ‘feel’ safe in some corners. No eyes on the streets which comes from a mix of uses, diversity of ownership, small blocks, etc. This isn’t an opinion - we know this to be true. 
 

You need to build for urbanity. If you plan for people and place, you’ll get people and place. If you plan for cars, you’ll get cars. 

 

And once upon a time people built roads for horse and carriage. Times change. A Dubai company has investment in the billions for flying cars. Yes, flying cars. Times will change. Roads will change. Urban planning is only in reference to the times we abide in. Obviously like the horse and carriage to the evolution of the cars, things and the surrounding enviorment changes.

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The point is that vehicles (whether horse and buggy or flying car) should not be the focus.  Having a complete street grid and granularity helps make a place feel more alive and promotes a safer living space in density.  Block-hogs like what will go on the NE portion of the stadium plot are pedestrian-hostile and promote anti-social behavior (which leads to crime).

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The problem is, as stated this land will become a 1000 space garage. They didn't say it would include mixed uses which would increase density as well, just a garage.  If they said it would be a garage wrapped by other uses, I'd be fine.  If they said it was going to be a mixed use tower including 1000 spaces that'd be great. But to just build a garage for the stadium, that's bullsh*t. There are garages all over downtown with plenty of space for 25k people for a soccer game.  There's no reason for this. Anyone who wants to argue against that is just ignoring the facts.  If I go to a game there I will be completely fine to park wherever I can and walk or take the streetcar there just like everyone else should be willing to do.

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Well you heard it here. Troeros is getting his best practice urban planning cues from Dubai, not Madrid (or Amsterdam, Copenhagen, Tokyo, Melbourne, Portland, Vancouver, London, etc etc etc). 
 

And please remember Troeros - cars are not some new invention. They’re an outdated 20th century hangover. You defending a mono-functional, likely inflexible garage for them is just about as retrograde an idea as you can get. What were promoting is something new and exciting, and yes, traditional all at the same time.

Edited by atlas
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15 hours ago, troeros said:

Accept change, for that's the only thing consistent about life. Nothing is permenant. So why get worked up about it? Life is to short to care about things you don't have control over anyways. 

 

Then why do you even care about what is going in or not? Why are you going around fretting this project or that isn't happening as fast enough to your liking? Why do you even follow and incessantly comment on all these projects that "you don't have control over anyways"?

 

14 hours ago, troeros said:

 

And once upon a time people built roads for horse and carriage. Times change. A Dubai company has investment in the billions for flying cars. Yes, flying cars. Times will change. Roads will change. Urban planning is only in reference to the times we abide in. Obviously like the horse and carriage to the evolution of the cars, things and the surrounding enviorment changes.

 

Actually, your point proves the opposite. Human scaled urban environments are independent from whatever technology is out there. Good urban design is based on human scale. Flying cars won't change a thing in terms of how people interact with a street and buildings, and it is a completely ridiculous statement to base the design of anything in the present on some unknown and unworkable technology.

 

You claim to value good urban space but most of your comments are completely oblivious to good historic, urban environments and really seem to only focus on how expensive we can make the restaurants, bars, stores, and housing, not a true community.

 

 

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4 hours ago, mcmicken said:

Then why do you even care about what is going in or not? Why are you going around fretting this project or that isn't happening as fast enough to your liking? Why do you even follow and incessantly comment on all these projects that "you don't have control over anyways"?

 

Because life is boring without hobbies, and this is my hobby. I love urban discussion but at the end of the day investing in too much of something absolutely drains you mentally. It's not worth it. 

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2 hours ago, troeros said:

 

Because life is boring without hobbies, and this is my hobby. I love urban discussion but at the end of the day investing in too much of something absolutely drains you mentally. It's not worth it. 

This isn't a fantasy urban design league, this is real life. These decisions impact actual people and communities both now and long term. 

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3 hours ago, troeros said:

 

Because life is boring without hobbies, and this is my hobby. I love urban discussion but at the end of the day investing in too much of something absolutely drains you mentally. It's not worth it. 


can I suggest some reading material to help with said hobby, if you haven’t already:  
 

High cost of free parking

Parking and the city 

cities for people 

social life of small urban spaces 

death and life of great American cities 

Walkable city 
street fight 

happy city

radical cities 

the city at eye level manuals 

 

This is a good start I reckon.

 

 

 

Edited by atlas
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https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2019/11/22/county-closing-in-on-parking-garage-deal-with-fcc.html

 

image.png.e01b6c8f0107f304d432e6a829bd58ab.png

 

I can't really tell what the plan is for phase 2, but it certainly looks like the buildings on Wade are goners. The Revelation Baptist church is safe for the moment, and if the "future development" involves ground level retail, Bauer could still become a varsity village-esque space as mentioned by others above. Hopefully only phase 1 gets built, along with the mentioned Findlay Market adjacent garage then "future development" dies and the existing buildings are saved/infilled. 

Edited by ucgrady

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^It's hilarious that Mr. Lloyd Tate still refuses to sell his lot at the SW corner of Central & Bauer.  I know that a year ago the developers kept trying to contact him but he "wouldn't respond".  

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10 minutes ago, ucgrady said:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2019/11/22/county-closing-in-on-parking-garage-deal-with-fcc.html

 

image.png.e01b6c8f0107f304d432e6a829bd58ab.png

 

I can't really tell what the plan is for phase 2, but it certainly looks like the buildings on Wade are goners. The Revelation Baptist church is safe for the moment, and if the "future development" involves ground level retail, Bauer could still become a varsity village-esque space as mentioned by others above. Hopefully only phase 1 gets built, along with the mentioned Findlay Market adjacent garage then "future development" dies and the existing buildings are saved/infilled. 

Great, a publicly funded garage that will help absolutely no other existing development due to its location. Hopefully the county holds the line on the Findlay Market area garage.

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^^That article states what I've heard ...  that while FCC is pushing for one garage, the County is continuing to push for two garages. I think the County has the upper-hand in the negotiations, since they control the funds for the parking. If FCC simply wants to privately fund their own garage, they're entitled to do so! But if they're getting public funding, they have to give in to concessions on what best serves the public. 

 

Quote

Driehaus said Thursday that building a Findlay Market garage remains a goal and that the total in order to facilitate economic growth number of spaces is likely to exceed 1,000.

“We’re wrapping up the final product,” Driehaus said. “We have been working toward two sites. My expectation is that we will have two sites.”

 

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Why aren’t they using the Tristate building/ballet site, that they paid so much for, for a garage instead? Would cause much less damage to the street grid & save 6 nice historic buildings

Edited by thebillshark

www.cincinnatiideas.com

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