Jump to content
cincydave8

Cincinnati: West End: FC Cincinnati Stadium

Recommended Posts

I doubt that Cunningham engineered the threatened impeachment of the community council leader who signed off on the deal. Seems like the Enquirer got on board with this theory yesterday while others were claiming it was not a problem. And, I think what is being said is that MLS is not going to jump into a fight with the local po folk no matter how willing the City and FCC are to put a foot on their necks. Maybe they are, maybe they aren't. Cunningham has his sources, you do too. Right?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Except Nashville is still having fights with locals over their stadium and MLS award them and clearly you haven't read up on the undying saga that is the MLS awarded team in Miami and their attempts to build a stadium. They'll always be NIMBYs but at this point it's not going to stop MLS from inviting FCC.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's in Cunningham's best interest (for entertainment value, if nothing else) to pit liberal urbanites who want a West End soccer stadium against liberal urbanites who want to defend against anything resembling "Gentrification." WLW doesn't have a dog in the fight, so the more brutal it is and the longer it lasts, the better. In this case, the homeless coalition type people fighting against the stadium don't have a leg to stand on, but WLW will give them a Soapbox because the in-fighting is entertaining.

 

When I have listened to 700 this year, they have gone a long way toward "normalizing" soccer.  It was a sissy sport until the second or third-richest guy in town decided to bring a team to town. 

 

So in the past the soccer fans would (and were) mocked by 700.  Now they're mocking the anti-soccer people. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I doubt that Cunningham engineered the threatened impeachment of the community council leader who signed off on the deal. Seems like the Enquirer got on board with this theory yesterday while others were claiming it was not a problem. And, I think what is being said is that MLS is not going to jump into a fight with the local po folk no matter how willing the City and FCC are to put a foot on their necks. Maybe they are, maybe they aren't. Cunningham has his sources, you do too. Right?

 

I think the bigger issue is that city council still has to sign off on a few items before things can be cemented and locked down completely and even though there were 5 votes to pass the main resolution, it does not mean that someone like Mann or Sittenfield could waffle and throw a wrench in the entire plan at the 11th hour.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I doubt that Cunningham engineered the threatened impeachment of the community council leader who signed off on the deal. Seems like the Enquirer got on board with this theory yesterday while others were claiming it was not a problem. And, I think what is being said is that MLS is not going to jump into a fight with the local po folk no matter how willing the City and FCC are to put a foot on their necks. Maybe they are, maybe they aren't. Cunningham has his sources, you do too. Right?

 

I think the bigger issue is that city council still has to sign off on a few items before things can be cemented and locked down completely and even though there were 5 votes to pass the main resolution, it does not mean that someone like Mann or Sittenfield could waffle and throw a wrench in the entire plan at the 11th hour.

 

Things that could potentially be hold-ups last minute...items like zoning and development agreements etc? All that needs to be done prior to an announcement?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On April 28 the CINCINNATI METROPOLITAN HOUSING AUTHORITY closed on 413 & 415 Wade, two lots within the footprint of the stadium.  So is the team going to use one of its options to buy that land for super-cheap?

 

CMHA got the land from the mysterious West End Renaissance Village.  There is basically no info on this owner since it mysteriously disappeared from the news around 2011.  The Renaissance Village still retained ownership of the rest of its derelict properties. 

 

westend99.thumb.jpg.466bd08ec98f024de40d07035cc8dd01.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^those lots on Wade were indicated in a shaded color for “future expansion”... so I don’t think they were necessary for the first phase, but I’m sure FCC wants to get those parcels under their control as soon as possible...

 

https://mediaassets.wcpo.com/photo/2018/04/24/WCPO_fc_cincinnati_west_end_conceptual_design_1524592842801_84793780_ver1.0_640_480.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I didn't realize this before... but the current site plan (which I assume is still very much subject to change) shows the stadium constructed in a way that no seating would actually be directly on top of the Central Ave right of way. In other words: it appears it is designed in a way that you could walk/look directly along Central Ave, straight through the stadium. I personally like the idea of maintaining some semblance of the historic street grid, but this also seems like a rather surprising design decision, since it requires fairly significant compromises. I'm not clear how the concourse (14' above field level) would wrap around these gaps in the seating. I'll be curious if this configuration makes it into the final design.

 

 

 

centralave.thumb.JPG.abb440f533f13176ec768e120387e589.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Saturday could be pivotal in FC Cincinnati’s efforts to build a West End stadium

 

West End stakeholders, FC Cincinnati and elected leaders are set to have a meeting on Saturday about the community benefits agreement needed with the neighborhood in order for the City Council to agree to release money it appropriated for infrastructure and site preparation for a Major League Soccer stadium.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/05/10/saturday-could-be-pivotal-in-fc-cincinnati-s.html


"You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bill Cunningham tweet:

 

mlSZ8Ps.jpg


"It's just fate, as usual, keeping its bargain and screwing us in the fine print..." - John Crichton

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's bizarre how when a community negotiates in good faith, it's called "extortion," but when the team lies over and over, manufacturing false deadlines and perpetual "emergency" situations to force elected officials to make snap decisions, it's just smart negotiation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's bizarre how when a community negotiates in good faith, it's called "extortion," but when the team lies over and over, manufacturing false deadlines and perpetual "emergency" situations to force elected officials to make snap decisions, it's just smart negotiation.

 

Uh, yea, but everyone expects it from Berding.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's bizarre how when a community negotiates in good faith, it's called "extortion," but when the team lies over and over, manufacturing false deadlines and perpetual "emergency" situations to force elected officials to make snap decisions, it's just smart negotiation.

 

Uh, yea, but everyone expects it from Berding.

 

Isn't that the mentality that got us Trump?  He's an immoral sleaze bag, but that's just good old Trump for ya!


"Someone is sitting in the shade today because someone planted a tree a long time ago." - Warren Buffett 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's bizarre how when a community negotiates in good faith, it's called "extortion," but when the team lies over and over, manufacturing false deadlines and perpetual "emergency" situations to force elected officials to make snap decisions, it's just smart negotiation.

 

Uh, yea, but everyone expects it from Berding.

 

Isn't that the mentality that got us Trump?  He's an immoral sleaze bag, but that's just good old Trump for ya!

 

I think you are cornfused.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm just tired of the argument that a person can be consistently sleazy, but it's chalked up to be to their credit.  Berding was not being a good negotiator.  He was lying and intentionally trying to screw over people of the community.  He did it with the Bengals stadium deal and now he's trying to do it with the FC Cincinnati deal.  I'd love to have the stadium in the community, but the way he's tried to screw over people is not a good thing.


"Someone is sitting in the shade today because someone planted a tree a long time ago." - Warren Buffett 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

FC Cincinnati, community leaders discuss benefits agreement

 

News_0404_WestEnd.5abe984fde2f2.5ac774dd16b5e.jpg

 

West End stakeholders, FC Cincinnati and elected leaders met on Saturday to discuss the community benefits agreement (CBA) required for the team to construct a soccer-specific stadium in the neighborhood.

 

An FC Cincinnati spokesperson said the team’s leaders and members of the community were unable to reach an agreement on changes to a proposed CBA but the franchise is willing to host another meeting on Wednesday “if representatives of the neighborhood are successful in adopting a consensus.”

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/05/14/fc-cincinnati-community-leaders-discuss-benefits.html


"You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Negotiating with a Community Council of any kind is really difficult.  With the OTR and West End councils it is nothing short of impossible.


"Someone is sitting in the shade today because someone planted a tree a long time ago." - Warren Buffett 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here’s what’s next for FC Cincinnati with city council, West End

 

FC Cincinnati will take part in three key meetings on Wednesday as it strives to tie up loose ends on its plans to build a $200 million-plus soccer stadium in the West End.

 

First, FC Cincinnati officials will meet with West End residents and stakeholders in a private meeting at 8 a.m. Wednesday. That’s essentially an extension of a meeting conducted Saturday between the two groups that didn’t come to any resolution.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/05/15/here-s-what-s-next-for-fc-cincinnati-with-city.html


"You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

FC Cincinnati strikes deal with West End community

 

FC Cincinnati and the West End neighborhood have reached a deal on a community benefits agreement, a key step to its plans to build a $200 million-plus soccer stadium in the West End and its bid for a Major League Soccer franchise.

 

The deal came after FC Cincinnati officials met with West End representatives for about nine hours Wednesday in a marathon session that was originally expected to be completed by 1 p.m. But when it ran long, Cincinnati City Council’s Budget and Finance Committee meeting at 1 p.m. Wednesday went into recess until the negotiations wrapped up. They resumed meeting at 5:45 p.m. and approved the community benefits agreement after the deal had been reached. The full council approved it shortly after that.

 

FC Cincinnati needed the city’s approval of a community benefits agreement in order to get the city’s package of about $35 million for infrastructure costs around the stadium site.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/05/16/fc-cincinnati-strikesdeal-with-west-end-community.html


"You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the fact that FCC is willing to agree to all of these things shows a lot of commitment. If this was demanded of any other development, odds are the developer would simply go ok nevermind, peace.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think FCC knows they'll make so much money if they join MLS that a few hundred thousand dollars per year to the community is more than worth it to finalize a deal that will push them over the edge in their quest for an MLS invite.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It turns out that Cunningham was right on target. FC Cincinnati had to re-do the entire deal and kowtow to the West End discontented to get the deal back on track. It was DOA.

 

Of course, the end result was still crumbs for the school board and the neighbors, but, apparently, they are too stupid to know that.  Now it remains to be seen if this whole thing was just a Berding charade, or if he is a pawn for MLS.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Meanwhile on 700 WLW, Bill Cunningham continues to whine about the CBA, saying that "clowncil" is falling for the West End's "extortion."

 

Because it is a bad precedent to development in other parts of the city. If you have to be extorted by groups who do not have a specific property interest dictate terms to a willing buyer and seller, you are not very easy to do business with. It makes it much easier to just develop a cornfield

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Meanwhile on 700 WLW, Bill Cunningham continues to whine about the CBA, saying that "clowncil" is falling for the West End's "extortion."

 

Because it is a bad precedent to development in other parts of the city. If you have to be extorted by groups who do not have a specific property interest dictate terms to a willing buyer and seller, you are not very easy to do business with. It makes it much easier to just develop a cornfield

 

^ That's assuming that location doesn't matter in business location, which it obviously does. This is negotiation, which is somehow praised in business settings, but vilified when communities try to do it. FCC wants land in a community. They want to create noise and light pollution and generate large amounts of traffic, and the community is asking for something in exchange for allowing these negatives in their community. If FCC doesn't like it, let them go develop in a corn field. I'm sure that would get them an MLS bid. I don't see anything wrong with trying to get something positive out of what will otherwise be a major intrusion into the community. Especially given the shady and rushed nature of this deal, where Berding clearly thought he could impose false deadlines to steamroll the community and the school board. FCC has blundered this whole stadium deal from the beginning. That they are even at the point they are in is remarkable, IMO.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is not just about FCC, it is about Children's too.

 

Look at Nashville, See how easy things came together for them with this deal. It helps speak to business leaders that things can get done quickly there. It encourages development instead of throwing up roadblocks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But the Nashville location - a county fairgrounds - is far different than in the middle of an urban neighborhood. Additionally, politicians in Nashville are now looking at denying the funding of forcing a different site for the stadium (https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/2018/05/15/nashville-mayors-brileys-challengers-unsure-mls-stadium-fairgrounds/608910002/).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/politics-extra/2018/05/16/fc-cincinnati-future-growth-jeopardy-after-soccer-stadium-deal/612546002/

 

This is a great reason why the madness needs to stop. Half the time the people against it don't really have a stake other than sucking money off the individuals who will truly benefit from the development. They harm the neighborhood in the long run.

 

When you let the Josh Spring's have a say in development, don't complain why the urban core declines and becomes a ghetto.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The West End in its current form is not a "blighted ghetto." It is not currently living up to its potential, but let's not go over the top.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/politics-extra/2018/05/16/fc-cincinnati-future-growth-jeopardy-after-soccer-stadium-deal/612546002/

 

This is a great reason why the madness needs to stop. Half the time the people against it don't really have a stake other than sucking money off the individuals who will truly benefit from the development. They harm the neighborhood in the long run.

 

When you let the Josh Spring's have a say in development, don't complain why the urban core declines and becomes a ghetto.

There is a lot of space between banning CBAs (basically what Jason Williams is arguing for) / letting developers do whatever they want, and letting Josh Spring tie us up with ridiculous requirements.

 

If we can't have a system of government that can distinguish between genuine neighborhood concerns, and Josh Spring rants, then we just have crappy government.

 

In my opinion the neighborhood councils are a place to go for local input, but we can not rely on them to negotiate and make critical decisions. At least, they need frameworks to work from. And professionals who are paid to facilitate. It's ridiculous to assume that any one of our neighborhood councils "speaks" for the  neighborhood. Most people don't even know they exist.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm sure Jason Williams and Bill Cunningham would be totally fine it some developer bought property right next to their homes and got City Council to change the zoning to allow the developer to build whatever they want. Neither one of these fine journalists would "extort" the developer or the city for asking for any concessions whatsoever. It's their land, they can do whatever they want with it!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Jason Williams article is so gross. He's not even pretending to be unbiased anymore, he's unashamedly blowing the dog whistles.

 

The utter chaos and extortion efforts that threatened to torpedo the $500 million Children's Hospital expansion and $200 million FC Cincinnati stadium projects call for a sense of urgency to address how development is done here.

 

Urban redevelopment opportunities are going to keep happening, and those who have a direct interest and legitimate concerns need to be heard. What can be done to ensure neighborhood residents and developers work together and self-serving outsiders looking for a handout stay away? [...]

 

Cranley led the effort to get $35 million in city money for stadium infrastructure. He contends it's mostly on City Council to take the lead on addressing the community engagement problems.

 

FC Cincinnati and West End Community Council entered a so-called CBA, a legally binding agreement that partly requires the club to pay the neighborhood $3 million over 30 years for community projects.

 

Wait a minute...which party is the one looking for a handout?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm sure Jason Williams and Bill Cunningham would be totally fine it some developer bought property right next to their homes and got City Council to change the zoning to allow the developer to build whatever they want.

 

 

No doubt the blue bloods have welcomed Jason Williams into the fold.  When you hear him on WVXU, it's pretty obvious that he's dazzled by these people.  His columns read like they were pieced together from notes they sent him. 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

FC Cincinnati plans major announcement

By Steve Watkins and Erin Caproni  –  Cincinnati Business Courier

 

 

FC Cincinnati is planning a major announcement on Fountain Square on Tuesday, according to multiple media reports.

 

The announcement, set for 5:30 p.m., is expected to cover the topic of Major League Soccer expansion and include city leaders.

 

The event will likely be a celebration of the United Soccer League club's entry into MLS.

 

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/05/24/fc-cincinnati-plans-major-announcement.html

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It would be demolished to make way for the stadium.

 

That's too bad it can't be worked in. Corner ticket office?

 

The could save the facade and install it elsewhere, but the building is basically right in the middle of the new stadium.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...