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Cincinnati: West End: FC Cincinnati Stadium

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It is not just the stadium thing. I think the Black matter has a lot to do with it too. It just seems like Seelbach, Young, Sittenfeld, Denard and Landsman stand against anything the mayor wants just for the sake that Cranley is for it. It is embarrassing that a local official would want to play petty games like this.

 

No it's not.  It's long-overdue push-back against our mini-Trump.  Cranley has nobody to blame but himself.  He overplayed his hand by causing the Black issue.  He has Jason Williams and Bill Cunningham out there weaving a narrative that has no relationship to what just happened or what is happening.  Turning on 700WLW or reading the Politics Extra column is like turning on Alex Jones. 

 

Cranley is a nasty dude.  His coalition is completely built on money -- public money that is poured on whoever he needs to get votes.  So if you're with him, you get access to ridiculous deals that rob the public trough.  If you're against him, he attempts to get you fired and run you out of town. 

 

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That Williams column today was a new low. I’m disgusted he gets to set the narrative at the newspaper with the largest circulation that all my older relatives read.  Trying to make Cincinnatians begrudge a small neighboring city right across the river because  of frickin’ Hofbrauhaus. Only someone who never leaves their house and never visits downtown Cincinnati or Newport would believe him. Guess what. Smale Park is nice. Sawyer Point Park is nice. Walking across the Purple People bridge is nice. Newport in the Levee is nice. The Aquarium is nice. That’s a pleasant Sunday afternoon. They work well together. How small minded, petty and provincial can we possibly get around here.


www.cincinnatiideas.com

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That Williams column today was a new low. Im disgusted he gets to set the narrative at the newspaper with the largest circulation that all my older relatives read.

 

Yeah when I visit the old people's home all of those people actually think this stuff is true.  And all of them vote in every single primary and general election.  This is how people like Smitherman have built power in Cincinnati -- keep tricking old people.  If a retirement home with 250 residents sat directly across from a college dormitory with 250 residents, you're going to have 240 votes in a primary coming from one building and 5 coming from the other. 

 

The Williams columns read like they were ghost written.  He wasn't even here in the 90s.  In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Peter Bronson is ghost writing Politics Extra. 

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When has city hall had a voice in the stadium situation? I don't understand where your criticism is coming from. Jason Williams is intentionally confusing the FCC stadium with the Harry Black issue and people are apparently falling for it.

 

The city can't stop the West End Community Council from giving people a voice if they vote according to the by laws of the CC.

 

I think Wendell Young made a big mistake by coming out against a West End stadium before any details were made public. But council hasn't prevented a stadium from going in anywhere. Can you point to council trying to sabotage the stadium deal?

 

Also, that praising of Newport on the Levee is hilarious. I would rather have The Banks than Newport on the Levee. I would rather have the Moerlein Lager House than the Hofbrauhaus. I would rather have the Reds than the movie theater. I would rather have apartments, hotels, and office than a shopping mall. I would rather have the Freedom Center than the Aquarium. The idea that NotL is better than the Banks is laughable. But that's not really on topic I guess.

 

100% agree.

 

This Council literally has not had any stadium-related motion or ordinance put before them. The last Council to vote on anything stadium was the previous Council, who approved the Oakley plan that Cranley rushed to a vote 1 week after the election.

 

I actually think both Jason Williams and Chris Wetterich are guilty of pushing the idea that "it's chaos at City Hall!" Actually, normal city business is still going on. I don't suspect that much new legislation is going to be passed until the City Manager situation is figured out, but like I said before... there is nothing for City Council to vote on right now. The Oakley plan was already approved and there is no current West End plan that would need to be approved. If Cranley is dealmaking behind the scenes to put together a new West End plan, he can still bring that new plan to Council who will vote on it. There is no evidence that Council would reject a Cranley proposal simply out of spite.

 

I also eyerolled at the Newport on the Levee praise. The narrative that "Cincinnati can't do anything so we lost out to Newport!" is so old and tired. Cincinnati and Hamilton County took more time to developing the north bank and we got a world class riverfront park out of it. Sure, The Banks has has issues filling their retail spaces, but if we can actually focus on making it a mixed use neighborhood instead of a game day entertainment destination, those spaces will be filled over time. Meanwhile, NOTL feels like a dead mall inside, and the new apartments and hotel they build don't appear to be helping much.

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If NOTL was on the Cincinnati side the Enquirer would hold up its high vacancies and remaining collection of junk shops as a sign of failure.

 

If Cincinnati had those wayfinding "wifi" things that apparently don't do anything in Newport on this side of the river, the Enquirer would have reported on it.

 

I like Hofbrau but I'd rather have Moerlein as well. The Aquarium is great, but its more of a regional "having one benefits us" thing versus having the aquarium here makes a difference. On a certain level, same with FC Stadium. Having one in the region is great. Having one in the West End would help OTR bars, but putting it in LPH wouldn't create a new LPH entertainment destination.

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If NOTL was on the Cincinnati side the Enquirer would hold up its high vacancies and remaining collection of junk shops as a sign of failure.

 

The only legit retailer left appears to be the Barnes & Noble that has been there since the beginning. 

https://www.newportonthelevee.com/shop

 

 

NOTL is one notch above leasing to title loan and cash for gold places.  Would love to see Williams do a follow-up on the payments NOTL promised Newpot Public Schools back in 2001. 

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I know many have indicated MLS has said no way to Oakley, but I believe that is just not the case.  FCC continues to spend money on the Oakley site.  Why on earth if you have been told "NO" by MLS on a location, do you continue to put money into it?  I understand keeping it around to have in the discussion for leverage on other 2 sites, but hard dollars are being spent.  Oakley is alive and well.

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If NOTL was on the Cincinnati side the Enquirer would hold up its high vacancies and remaining collection of junk shops as a sign of failure.

 

The only legit retailer left appears to be the Barnes & Noble that has been there since the beginning. 

https://www.newportonthelevee.com/shop

 

 

NOTL is one notch above leasing to title loan and cash for gold places.  Would love to see Williams do a follow-up on the payments NOTL promised Newpot Public Schools back in 2001. 

 

I would guess they haven't paid market rent (if any at all) for the past ten years

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I know many have indicated MLS has said no way to Oakley, but I believe that is just not the case.  FCC continues to spend money on the Oakley site.  Why on earth if you have been told "NO" by MLS on a location, do you continue to put money into it?  I understand keeping it around to have in the discussion for leverage on other 2 sites, but hard dollars are being spent.  Oakley is alive and well.

 

What money do you see continuing to be spent at the Oakley site?

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What money do you see continuing to be spent at the Oakley site?

 

Lame BS answer, but I am limited on disclosing what specifically.  As it relates to the person I spoke with, who asked I keep specifics close to the vest.  All I can say is Hard dollars are in fact still being spent. 

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Nashville's new stadium is two and half miles from city center, Oakley's location is seven and half miles from city center. While I don't think they were told 'no' by MLS, I don't think it's their first choice either. When first announced Berding said the stadium would be "between Nippert and the Ohio River". That's the West End, plain and simple.

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Nashville's new stadium is two and half miles from city center, Oakley's location is seven and half miles from city center. While I don't think they were told 'no' by MLS, I don't think it's their first choice either. When first announced Berding said the stadium would be "between Nippert and the Ohio River". That's the West End, plain and simple.

 

MLS wants this round of expansions to be new franchises in purpose-built stadiums in premier locations so that they can demand the same of future expansion bids.  They want stadium shots that have skylines in the background.  Aside from the revenue, a stadium becoming part of a city's image improves the image of the league. 

 

The West End stadium would probably be the best in the league.  It'll attract a lot of attention to Cincinnati, at least for a few years, like what Camden Yards did for Baltimore back in the early 90s.  The only MLS stadium I've seen (besides Columbus) is the one in Newark, NJ.  Looks like an area where the mafia dumps bodies. 

 

 

 

 

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My first MLS experience was for the Chicago Fire, which is somewhere between Midway airport and a huge rail yard. After you take the orange line to the very end, you have to get a bus and take that an additional 4ish miles.

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My first MLS experience was for the Chicago Fire, which is somewhere between Midway airport and a huge rail yard. After you take the orange line to the very end, you have to get a bus and take that an additional 4ish miles.

 

In the early days of MLS (basically anything before 2009) the only places that teams could get stadiums built were in the outskirts of towns. Anyone thinking that the FCC stadium deal is a mess should really look in to why we have our MLS stadium in Utah in Sandy rather than Salt Lake City proper. The only thing it has going for it is that it's a nice a stadium and it's right next to a light rail line.

 

Now, MLS has proven that it's not going to die, the demographic that grew up playing soccer is growing up, and the US has developed its own soccer culture. I've been to MLS games in SLC, Seattle and I've been to Portland's stadium for an FCS football game. I can say that outside of the two Pacific Northwest teams, a stadium in the West End and/or Newport would be one of the better locations in the league. Oakley would still be better than 75% of the league as well but the West End and Newport would be awesome.

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The only MLS stadium I've seen (besides Columbus) is the one in Newark, NJ.  Looks like an area where the mafia dumps bodies.

 

It's in Harrison, not Newark, and the stadium area is seeing a ton of TOD from the PATH station.

 

(You can see the arena at the end of the street here.)

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The only MLS stadium I've seen (besides Columbus) is the one in Newark, NJ.  Looks like an area where the mafia dumps bodies.

 

It's in Harrison, not Newark, and the stadium area is seeing a ton of TOD from the PATH station.

 

(You can see the arena at the end of the street here.)

 

That new TOD development is also COVERED in garbage, as is the new riverfront park immediately accross the river from it. I was there this weekend and easily half the people walking to the stadium commented on how much trash was everywhere. Totally anecdotal, but just happened to experience what you two were mentioning this weekend and you're both right: tons of new development, but a generally gross area. But, then again, huge swaths of urban Tri-State are covered in trash and feel rundown even when they're new.

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The Port Redevelopment Authority has scheduled a special meeting tomorrow morning. The release says: "The purpose of this meeting is to discuss a potential economic development project involving FC Cincinnati."

 

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/03/26/redevelopment-authority-schedules-fc-cincinnati.html

 

ID still take the RA owned Hudepohl site over Oakley if the West End is truly a no go, If only for the giant CINCINNATI sign in the background. It isnt a walkable urban area at all, but neither is the location in Oakley, and bars and entertainment can be built nearby in the open spots. Heck, Madtree would have been the only real goto spot in Oakley and it is just one huge bar. Madtree South in the old Scooby Do building (shhh it never was a prison if we dont tell) would be a great pre-post mega bar and any overflow would spurn growth if the demand is there. Every goal we could shoot fire out of the rehabbed (It's my dream let me have it) HUDEPOHL smokestack!!!

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The Port Redevelopment Authority has scheduled a special meeting tomorrow morning. The release says: "The purpose of this meeting is to discuss a potential economic development project involving FC Cincinnati."

 

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/03/26/redevelopment-authority-schedules-fc-cincinnati.html

 

ID still take the RA owned Hudepohl site over Oakley if the West End is truly a no go, If only for the giant CINCINNATI sign in the background. It isnt a walkable urban area at all, but neither is the location in Oakley, and bars and entertainment can be built nearby in the open spots. Heck, Madtree would have been the only real goto spot in Oakley and it is just one huge bar. Madtree South in the old Scooby Do building (shhh it never was a prison if we dont tell) would be a great pre-post mega bar and any overflow would spurn growth if the demand is there. Every goal we could shoot fire out of the rehabbed (It's my dream let me have it) HUDEPOHL smokestack!!!

 

haha. Scooby Do building and flame-throwing smokestacks. I like it.

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I'm all for a CBA and for the team being good neighbors/contributing positively to the community, but some of this is just ridiculous.

 

Certain parts of the traffic and noise concerns make sense, but it's not like FCC is going to gobble up the area's internet bandwidth...

 

Community-wide free wireless internet

 

...how would that even work and why, out of all the benefits and tangible things the club could provide, would this be one of them?

 

Renovation of the 1stGerman Church and the Regal theater for local visual and preforming artists

 

Last I heard, the church was becoming a rock climbing place? Did that fall through?

 

Also, why would FCC have to be on the hook for redeveloping these properties?

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Very similar to the Christmas List that OTRCC asked for in exchange for "allowing" the Liberty & Elm project to be built in their neighborhood.

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Very similar to the Christmas List that OTRCC asked for in exchange for "allowing" the Liberty & Elm project to be built in their neighborhood.

 

I'd add a second set of parentheses to "their".  I doubt that anyone on the OTRCC actually grew up in the area.  Some of the west end people might have. 

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FC Cincinnati is going to build in the West End. 

 

West End Ventures, LLC just bought the decrepit 2-family on Providence St. for $67,000, 3 months after 1509 Providence LLC paid $25,000 for it. 

http://wedge1.hcauditor.org/view/re/0810002007600/2017/transfers

 

Also closed on a small lot behind the cell phone tower:

http://wedge1.hcauditor.org/view/re/0810002012100/2017/transfers

 

 

 

Nobody in our local news media appears to know how to use the auditor's site. 

 

 

 

 

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I'm all for a CBA and for the team being good neighbors/contributing positively to the community, but some of this is just ridiculous.

 

Certain parts of the traffic and noise concerns make sense, but it's not like FCC is going to gobble up the area's internet bandwidth...

 

Community-wide free wireless internet

 

...how would that even work and why, out of all the benefits and tangible things the club could provide, would this be one of them?

 

Renovation of the 1stGerman Church and the Regal theater for local visual and preforming artists

 

Last I heard, the church was becoming a rock climbing place? Did that fall through?

 

Also, why would FCC have to be on the hook for redeveloping these properties?

 

 

Pretty sure the Fiirst German church is still going to be the climbing gym Cincinnati Rocks though they were having issues with the parking requirements a few months back so i hope it is still a go. I wonder if those drafting this list dont know work is underway and were just dragging out wishes from previous years to toss into the wish pile.

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I'm all for a CBA and for the team being good neighbors/contributing positively to the community, but some of this is just ridiculous.

 

Certain parts of the traffic and noise concerns make sense, but it's not like FCC is going to gobble up the area's internet bandwidth...

 

Community-wide free wireless internet

 

...how would that even work and why, out of all the benefits and tangible things the club could provide, would this be one of them?

 

Renovation of the 1stGerman Church and the Regal theater for local visual and preforming artists

 

Last I heard, the church was becoming a rock climbing place? Did that fall through?

 

Also, why would FCC have to be on the hook for redeveloping these properties?

 

 

Pretty sure the Fiirst German church is still going to be the climbing gym Cincinnati Rocks though they were having issues with the parking requirements a few months back so i hope it is still a go. I wonder if those drafting this list dont know work is underway and were just dragging out wishes from previous years to toss into the wish pile.

 

They have put scaffolding up on the entire north side of the church off Hulbert Ave as of late.

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They just need to go to Newport and be done with the whole West End Charade. Cincinnati lost out because they were too stupid to get out of their own way. Let's not lose out for the whole region because of this pettiness.

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I wouldn't call what's going on at Nippert losing out. The only people with something substantial to lose are FCC owners.

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Well lets put it bluntly though, if FC doesnt receive an MLS bid, there will be a major change in ownership. I have heard from numerous folks involved with the organization that if the team cant garner a professional league status the Lindner and Farmer families are selling their shares, which is the majority of the team. Will the team remain, yes quiet possibly but would probably struggle without the financial clout behind them to make the necessary changes year to year fans would prefer to see.

This point and time they need to go the route of least resistance, get their bid into MLS and hope for the best. Sacramento is getting its ducks in a row quicker than this merry go round of site selection...

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Cranley just said he'll be introducing West End FCC legislation soon. Did not give an exact date nor did he say what would be in legislation. It seems like FCC is probably okay with the CPS deal and will give the West End one last shot at City Council before bailing to Newport, presumably. John Cranley pushing this in spite of what seems to be pretty ardent opposition from West End residents, claiming he knows what is good for them.

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To be clear there may be a good amount of opposition at the West End and OTR Community Councils, but I've found long ago that these organizations don't really represent the true wants of those in the community.  They tend to be hijacked by the Josh Springs of the world who whip up opposition by spreading lies and misrepresentations to those that are easily swayed.  There is certainly a silent majority in the community that often disagrees with these people.  The only way to know for sure how people feel about the stadium would be to poll members of the community directly.


"Someone is sitting in the shade today because someone planted a tree a long time ago." - Warren Buffett 

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To be clear there may be a good amount of opposition at the West End and OTR Community Councils, but I've found long ago that these organizations don't really represent the true wants of those in the community.  They tend to be hijacked by the Josh Springs of the world who whip up opposition by spreading lies and misrepresentations to those that are easily swayed.  There is certainly a silent majority in the community that often disagrees with these people.  The only way to know for sure how people feel about the stadium would be to poll members of the community directly.

 

Yeah I don't know anyone else from Westwood quite like Mary Kuhl. 

 

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To be clear there may be a good amount of opposition at the West End and OTR Community Councils, but I've found long ago that these organizations don't really represent the true wants of those in the community.  They tend to be hijacked by the Josh Springs of the world who whip up opposition by spreading lies and misrepresentations to those that are easily swayed.  There is certainly a silent majority in the community that often disagrees with these people.  The only way to know for sure how people feel about the stadium would be to poll members of the community directly.

 

Yeah I don't know anyone else from Westwood quite like Mary Kuhl. 

 

 

And thank the Lord for that!


"Someone is sitting in the shade today because someone planted a tree a long time ago." - Warren Buffett 

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FC Cincinnati West End Ventures snuck a purchase past us as part of their initial closing...308 W. Fifteenth:

westendventures_zpsltm10mnb.jpg

 

So they have now closed on four parcels, three bundled into one $1.6 million transaction.  Here is what FC Cincinnati West End Ventures now owns:

westendventures2_zpsddeayazk.jpg

 

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To be clear there may be a good amount of opposition at the West End and OTR Community Councils, but I've found long ago that these organizations don't really represent the true wants of those in the community.  They tend to be hijacked by the Josh Springs of the world who whip up opposition by spreading lies and misrepresentations to those that are easily swayed.  There is certainly a silent majority in the community that often disagrees with these people.  The only way to know for sure how people feel about the stadium would be to poll members of the community directly.

 

Yeah I don't know anyone else from Westwood quite like Mary Kuhl.

 

The new blood in Westwood ran her out of the neighborhood awhile ago. Why do think there's been so much positive press and activity there the last two years? A sea change in attitudes.

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FC Cincinnati West End Ventures snuck a purchase past us as part of their initial closing...308 W. Fifteenth:

westendventures_zpsltm10mnb.jpg

 

So they have now closed on four parcels, three bundled into one $1.6 million transaction.  Here is what FC Cincinnati West End Ventures now owns:

westendventures2_zpsddeayazk.jpg

 

 

 

Chris Wetterich: Regarding the parcels purchased recently at 1515 Central Parkway by West End Ventures, that property is now controlled by LINSR, the Courier’s @AndyCinciBiz has confirmed. It is not for FC Cincinnati.

 

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I've certainly seen property change hands like that before. Linder buys out LISNR

 

Yeah they already almost have the same name. 

 

The giveaway is the property on the west side of Providence.  It's a vacant 2-family...why would Lisnr need or want it?  Going by memory...Provident Bank might own some of the vacant land north of it.  Lindner's office has been in the Provident Bank building since the 70s. 

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I've certainly seen property change hands like that before. Linder buys out LISNR

 

Yeah they already almost have the same name. 

 

The giveaway is the property on the west side of Providence.  It's a vacant 2-family...why would Lisnr need or want it?  Going by memory...Provident Bank might own some of the vacant land north of it.  Lindner's office has been in the Provident Bank building since the 70s. 

 

The property to the north is not owned by Provident, just administered by them for a family trust housed there. The family that owns Tri-State Wholesale, the ballet building, etc own everything north of there.

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The Business Courier made some calls...Lisnr claims that they had an option to purchase that was about to expire.  Okay, show us that contract and we'll believe you. 

 

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/03/29/exclusive-key-west-end-properties-sold-but-door.html

 

 

And the big unanswered question is the matter of 1509 Providence, which was listed on MLS last fall and sold in January:

https://www.sibcycline.com/Listing/CIN/1558438/1509-Providence-St-Cincinnati-OH-45214/sold

 

No way did Lisner have an option on this property, since it closed in January after an MLS listing.  So just 10 weeks later they pay 2x in an off-market deal. 

 

 

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The March 31 deadline has come and gone. I suppose we can blame that on city council, West End residents, the school board, and anti-gentrification activists. /s

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If they don't get the team, yes

 

I wouldn't completely blame the elected officials, FC Cincinnati did its own bungling up of the deal as well. Not having a transparent, thought out process, not being able to read or navigate community opposition, and not having done its own due diligence on the site options. They made a lot of Developer 101 mistakes.


“All truly great thoughts are conceived while walking.”
-Friedrich Nietzsche

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