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Cincinnati: West End: FC Cincinnati Stadium

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Ken Broo has this to say (https://www.wcpo.com/news/insider/the-broo-view-west-end-or-oakley-major-league-soccer-likely-wants-fc-cincinnati-to-own-land?page=2):

 

[...]

 

And even then, impact studies will have to be done on things like traffic and soil. Those things take a lot of time. Maybe MLS doesn't really care about where a stadium is built, just so long as one is built. Maybe all three stadium sites, including Newport, remain in play. Maybe MLS is simply giving FCC time to get its land act together.

 

That's a lot of maybes. But here's a certainty -- the last thing MLS wants is to award a franchise here and not have a soccer-only stadium built.

Imagine an MLS team playing at Nippert, drawing 20,000 a game and no construction starting on a new facility. Good luck getting a stadium built then. My guess is, MLS wants to see a deed to a land purchase and a signed agreement with a major construction company. But it's only a guess.

 

Interesting.  You can't blame MLS -- if they really are so intent on getting soccer-only stadiums built -- for making sure that one is actually under construction in Cincinnati, since Nippert has proven to be a successful site at a tiny fraction of the cost of building a new facility. 

 

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WEST END: Just talked to Community Council President Keith Blake again on the phone; he & some other members met with FCC President Jeff Berding yesterday - Berding promised engagement *if* that is the stadium location choice WCPO[/member]

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FC really pushing the Enquirer to keep pushing the West End:

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2018/01/25/bars-and-restaurants-near-west-end-pretty-ok-stadium-unsurprisingly-where-fans-go/1062366001/

 

It's all FC, all the time in the local media.  Remember, The Enqurier CANNOT publish an article critical of any Lindner enterprise thanks to their Chiquita settlement back in 1999. 

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FC really pushing the Enquirer to keep pushing the West End:

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2018/01/25/bars-and-restaurants-near-west-end-pretty-ok-stadium-unsurprisingly-where-fans-go/1062366001/

 

It's all FC, all the time in the local media.  Remember, The Enqurier CANNOT publish an article critical of any Lindner enterprise thanks to their Chiquita settlement back in 1999. 

 

That explains why my family keeps bringing it up every time I see them. I wondered why they kept talking about something they have such little vested interest in....

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FC really pushing the Enquirer to keep pushing the West End:

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2018/01/25/bars-and-restaurants-near-west-end-pretty-ok-stadium-unsurprisingly-where-fans-go/1062366001/

 

It's all FC, all the time in the local media.  Remember, The Enqurier CANNOT publish an article critical of any Lindner enterprise thanks to their Chiquita settlement back in 1999. 

 

This is so funny seriously, because had it not been for the MLS the current powers that be wouldn't be going out of their way to promote the basin.  Ha.

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This is interesting. 1409 Central Park Way sole for 1.1 Million. Last transaction sold for 60k, 4 years ago. Everyone assumed it was FCC related on reddit, but apparently it’s related to a toy design company in Cincinnati called Bamg Zoom Design. What’s strange is that the highest nearest comp is Lisnr recent new HQ, which had a land transfer of 600k.

 

That said, 1.1 million? For a toy design company? Why are

They spending so much for Central Park way? Could this be the fcc land speculation effect? Get a piece of the action before land skyrocket in the west end?

 

https://i.imgur.com/TGJSiQp_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

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I went to Bang Zoom's Eden Park studio last year and even then they seemed to have outgrown their space, a converted bungalow. Cool if true, would be great to get a few product-based startups on that side of Central, with these folks and LINSR being the first two. But you're right, 1.1m is too much for those buildings in that area.

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It gets more interesting though

 

I tried googling the buyer, SNM properties LLC, and could find practically nothing. Eventually r/fccincinnati reddit detectives found out that they were registered by KMK, who have done a large amount of work with FCC, and not to mention are tied with John Cranley.

 

http://www2.sos.state.oh.us/reports/rwservlet?imgc12g&Din=201732501636

 

The mailing address of the buyer however trails back to Bang Zoom Design Co.

 

I don't want to create a conspiracy theory. I'm not really into that type of stuff. But why would a toy company over pay so much for that parcel? Especially when the largest near comp, in Lisnr HQ only paid 600K for there land only a short few months ago.

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Also, there is an unused subway station lurking beneath Central Parkway and Liberty.  So if by some wild chance there is a rail component in the proposed 2018 SORTA tax, all of this land will become much more valuable for that reason alone. 

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I don’t think this transaction is strange or related to FC Cincinnati. The purchase price was for several contiguous properties that include a big parking lot, and a  huge recently redone completely open floor plan 2 story office building.

 

The old KFC/cell phone store property on Liberty went for 1 million to 3cdc. The other property on Central Parkway that sold for 600k in 2015, was marketed for a grocery store after it sold and was temporarily used as self storage so I don’t think the inside was ready to go for an end user when it was bought.

 

Also a stadium wouldn’t need the footprint of these buildings anyway.


www.cincinnatiideas.com

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I just hope a potential fcc mls stadium in the west end will allow reinvestment in the old west end/north liberty/mt auburn. Hopefully itlll speed up the process a tad.

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Even if this is a foil and no stadium comes to the West End, this episode has brought a lot of attention to a part of the city that has never been on the map, despite being within walking distance of downtown. 

 

 

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Is the meeting with cps THEE meeting that will determine fcc and cps partnership chances? Or will there have to be a series of Meetings before a conclusion can be drawn.

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Is the meeting with cps THEE meeting that will determine fcc and cps partnership chances? Or will there have to be a series of Meetings before a conclusion can be drawn.

 

Well you could go to the meeting yourself and find out. 

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One thing I don’t get about the Stargell stadium site is wouldn’t they need some of CPD’s District One parking lot for the stadium footprint? Would we have heard about it yet if they have approached the city about this?


www.cincinnatiideas.com

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Amanda Seitz

Amanda Seitz

@AmandaSeitz1

Option agreement for FC Cincinnati to have an option agreement on CMHA land passes unanimously. Only one of six CMHA board members asked a question. WCPO[/member]

 

 

Amanda Seitz

Amanda Seitz

@AmandaSeitz1

Anne Sesler, representing FC Cincinnati, says “FC Cincinnati’s interest in these parcels is for residential development... FC Cincinnati has no interest in building a stadium on these parcels.” WCPO[/member] #MLS2CINCY

 

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Even if this is a foil and no stadium comes to the West End, this episode has brought a lot of attention to a part of the city that has never been on the map, despite being within walking distance of downtown. 

 

 

 

BUT you have to walk over a freeway -- which is a shitkiller.

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Why the hell does a soccer team want to develop housing? Why is the local media not calling FC out on their shadiness? They want public funding in some capacity, so they need to be transparent with the public.

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Even if this is a foil and no stadium comes to the West End, this episode has brought a lot of attention to a part of the city that has never been on the map, despite being within walking distance of downtown. 

 

 

 

BUT you have to walk over a freeway -- which is a shitkiller.

 

No you don’t. Unless you’re talking about Central Parkway?

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Just so people get a sense for things once again...I estimate that as few as 30 homes will be demolished if a stadium footprint expands west of John St.  Bus parking and stuff like that could be on the east side of Central. 

 

cincinnati_zps4e1ey2aj.jpg

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Even if this is a foil and no stadium comes to the West End, this episode has brought a lot of attention to a part of the city that has never been on the map, despite being within walking distance of downtown. 

 

 

 

BUT you have to walk over a freeway -- which is a shitkiller.

 

No you don’t. Unless you’re talking about Central Parkway?

 

Yes, a wide divided high-speed road such as Central Parkway is a mental barrier even if it has traffic lights and crosswalks.

 

Rotate around. Does this look like a motivating place to walk through? https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1109933,-84.5205921,3a,75y,270h,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1slCiCWfmOZCI6J4ZlNZKxgQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

It's a bunch of van storage, pole barns, cell phone towers and exhaust shops. I still prefer this site, but it currently has a lot of things to keep people from joining the march.

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Why the hell does a soccer team want to develop housing? Why is the local media not calling FC out on their shadiness? They want public funding in some capacity, so they need to be transparent with the public.

Could it possibly be that there is some housing they they want to buy and tear down. And this new housing would house the People that would be displaced?

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Do you think they would buy a lot of the parcels between Wade and Fugate St.? I wonder if they did that if it would be possible to have an East - West stadium instead of a North - South.

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Do you think they would buy a lot of the parcels between Wade and Fugate St.? I wonder if they did that if it would be possible to have an East - West stadium instead of a North - South.

 

I think they'll build the stadium "inland" from Central Parkway but get control of as much as they can between Central and Central for development purposes. 

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Don’t forget. It won’t just be a stadium. There will also be mixed use development as well in the form of restaurants/bars/apartments etc.

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FC Cincinnati acquires West End option for CMHA properties

 

The Cincinnati Metropolitan Housing Authority approved an option agreement with FC Cincinnati Tuesday night that would allow the soccer club to buy land in the West End near a potential stadium site.

 

The six properties that include 66 parcels would not be used to build a new stadium, which FC Cincinnati plans to do if it wins a Major League Soccer expansion franchise. Instead, it would build single-family housing on those properties, CMHA CEO Greg Johnson and an FC Cincinnati representative said.

 

“There’s not enough room there to build a stadium,” Johnson said, adding the properties are currently zoned for single-family housing. “I wouldn’t say this is opening the door for a stadium. The only thing that can happen with the option we have is single-family housing.”

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/01/30/fc-cincinnati-acquires-west-end-option-for-cmha.html


"You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers

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Yes, a wide divided high-speed road such as Central Parkway is a mental barrier even if it has traffic lights and crosswalks.

 

Rotate around. Does this look like a motivating place to walk through? https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1109933,-84.5205921,3a,75y,270h,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1slCiCWfmOZCI6J4ZlNZKxgQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

It's a bunch of van storage, pole barns, cell phone towers and exhaust shops. I still prefer this site, but it currently has a lot of things to keep people from joining the march.

 

Wait does this mean you’re team music hall skywalk? Et tu, GCrites?

 

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A big hulking stadium and 4000 parking spaces used a couple dozen times a year. And Jeff Berding as the promoter for "associated housing and retail." I would have thought Fisher Homes putting in cul d' sac's and McMansions would be more warmly received by this crowd. A great place for the soccer stadium would be 8th Street . . . in Sacramento.

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If houses are to be torn to fit in a new stadium at the Stargel site it seems like a logical jump that these parcels are bought to move those people from their current homes into new ones.

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I'm confused/surprised because the purchase option does NOT include the CitiRama site, despite the fact that FCC clearly indicated in their map that they wanted that land: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/01/30/fc-cincinnati-acquires-west-end-option-for-cmha.html

The options don’t affect CMHA’s previous plans to sell property just south of Ezzard Charles Drive to Drees Homes for a Citirama site, Johnson said. Drees has an option to buy that land.

 

From the Enquirer: https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2018/01/30/fc-cincinnati-deal-west-end-land-coming-vote-tuesday/1078396001/

Home builder Drees has land south of Ezzard Charles Drive under option to buy for a purchase price of $750,000.

 

My guess is that FCC is negotiating with Drees directly to buy their option on the CitiRama site.

 

 

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and on the 6th day... Jeff Berding said absolutey nothing, again...

 

he wouldn't say what the club's exact plans  ;) were but read a statement from FC Cincinnati President and General Manager Jeff Berding: "For the stadium to be a great addition to the neighborhood, this enormous sports facility investment should also bring with it increased density with more housing for new residents, more offices and workers, more retail and entertainment, and of course, more community facilities. FC Cincinnati’s interest in these parcels is for residential development that brings more homes to the neighborhood.

 

"FCC has no interest in building a stadium on these parcels," the statement continued. "The team’s interest is to take parcels that have been vacant since the initial housing development and put energy behind getting new homes built here. That is it."

 

^Yeah sure Jeff, I'm sure it's got nothign to do with the homes you would need to demolish to make the stadium happen...  But, with soccer mania, even the 700 WLW "conservatives" go nuts over public money.

 

The worst part about having it in the West End though will probably be the end of the discussion for the Liberty Street Road Diet...  They will need that to be moving quick for the games.

 

***Edit: And sorry guys, I am sure in the end this will be a good thing for the West End, I just hate how this whole process has worked, thinly veiled and with little information...***

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My guess is they will have Hamilton County build an underground garage on the Drees site and have new homes/apartments built on top.  The random lots north of the Drees site are probably just part of the package deal and won't be used for anything other than their intended use. 

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Yes, a wide divided high-speed road such as Central Parkway is a mental barrier even if it has traffic lights and crosswalks.

 

Rotate around. Does this look like a motivating place to walk through? https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1109933,-84.5205921,3a,75y,270h,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1slCiCWfmOZCI6J4ZlNZKxgQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

It's a bunch of van storage, pole barns, cell phone towers and exhaust shops. I still prefer this site, but it currently has a lot of things to keep people from joining the march.

 

Wait does this mean you’re team music hall skywalk? Et tu, GCrites?

 

 

No way, skywalks are even worse! I hope the infill and re-development of the parts that need it is concurrent with the stadium development or very close in timeframe.

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Citirama is probably moving to the undeveloped City West lots recently acquired by FCC. Previously announced Citirama site will become the new Stargel Stadium. Starel Stadium will become new FCC stadium.

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Just so people get a sense for things once again...I estimate that as few as 30 homes will be demolished if a stadium footprint expands west of John St.  Bus parking and stuff like that could be on the east side of Central. 

 

cincinnati_zps4e1ey2aj.jpg

 

How is this site better than Oakley in any way? It's literally right next to a school and housing, with no commercial activity anywhere around. Isn't the intent of zoning, in part, to keep incongruent uses away from each other? I can't think of a worse neighbor for a school and residential neighborhood than a giant stadium.

 

Also, didn't MLS say they were awarding teams to two cities, and the finalists were Detroit, Nashville, Cincinnati, and Sacramento. Nashville gets its team, and then MLS goes on retreat and misses their own deadlines to announce the other winning bid. Couple weeks later announces that Miami is getting a team- a city that wasn't even on the list of 4. Why does anyone want to be part of this sham of a league? They're obviously a mess! Even Austin, who all but had the Crew wrapped up, is now getting some cold feet. Of course Cincinnati is all in, though. Anything to come off as 'major league' for the couple dozen people who tune into MLS games.  ::)

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Miami has always been getting a team. They just finally reached a point where they could announce they will be ready to start in 2020. They signed an agreement like 3 or 4 years ago. That wasn't part of this round of expansion, but was a carryover as the Miami group struggled to get a stadium built.

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A lot of people that are really into international football don't like MLS. As if international doesn't have tons of similar drama... but of course isn't that a part of the appeal?

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Citirama is probably moving to the undeveloped City West lots recently acquired by FCC. Previously announced Citirama site will become the new Stargel Stadium. Starel Stadium will become new FCC stadium.

That'd make sense.

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Citirama is probably moving to the undeveloped City West lots recently acquired by FCC. Previously announced Citirama site will become the new Stargel Stadium. Starel Stadium will become new FCC stadium.

The CitiRama proposal had 54 single family homes... and FCC just signed a purchase option on 66 properties from CMHA. So if FCC swaps their option with Drees, then Drees gets 12 more parcels to work with.

 

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Also, didn't MLS say they were awarding teams to two cities, and the finalists were Detroit, Nashville, Cincinnati, and Sacramento.

 

Yes.

 

Nashville gets its team,

 

Correct.

 

and then MLS goes on retreat and misses their own deadlines to announce the other winning bid.

 

Not quite accurate. MLS set deadlines for final bids to be submitted and announced when their expansion committee would be meeting. They met and a few weeks later announced the admittance of Nashville. As for the other teams, information has been sparse and speculation rampant, but MLS has never set a hard deadline or date as to when this would occur. Is it frustrating for some? Sure, but that's mainly been due to hand wringing and poor reporting by a certain people at a local paper (PB does a good job, the rest don't), typical local tv reporting, and talk radio. People were under the impression that an announcement would come on certain days or various timelines, but the league never said "Hey, yo, we gonna choose this day, be ready!"

 

Couple weeks later announces that Miami is getting a team- a city that wasn't even on the list of 4.

 

Miami's franchise has been in the works for years and was part of a separate process outside of the current expansion rounds and the previous Orland/Minnesota round. It dates back to when David Beckham joined the league (and as part of his contract was promised an expansion franchise locked in at the 2006/2007 price). Miami was announced alongside LAFC, with plans for both teams to begin in 2018. LAFC got off the ground easily, while Miami has featured stumbling block after stumbling block. The team is now set and will likely join in 2020.

 

Why does anyone want to be part of this sham of a league? They're obviously a mess!

 

Because lower division soccer in the United States is still tumultuous and in flux. While the USL has made great strides in recent seasons, not every team is anywhere near as successful as FCC, Louisville, and Indianapolis. See the Rochester Rhinos this season for a good example of when "minor league" is fully embraced.

 

Even Austin, who all but had the Crew wrapped up, is now getting some cold feet.

 

Except Austin didn't have The Crew "wrapped up." It was leaked that the Crew owner was finally pursuing Austin (and that he had a contract clause to pursue only Austin). He still needed a stadium plan and public support to make the move. So far in that process, the Austin City Council has been a bit tepid. However, Austin was never a done deal and in the end, may not happen.

 

Of course Cincinnati is all in, though. Anything to come off as 'major league' for the couple dozen people who tune into MLS games.  ::)

 

I would argue that a well established history of major league sports, a large population, and presence of large businesses' already grants Cincinnati "major league" status (even if this city/region continually drop the ball on certain things). However, if FC Cincinnati wants to get into the top flight of American soccer, the time to do it is now.

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CPS Board has met and discussed FCC... but no details were revealed and no decisions were made. Next step will be for CPS Board to meet with Berding/FCC to get details. One big concern/question would be how to manage property tax abatements for a new stadium, and how much revenue CPS would be able to expect from the stadium property tax payments (regardless of where the stadium is located).

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How is this site better than Oakley in any way? It's literally right next to a school and housing, with no commercial activity anywhere around. Isn't the intent of zoning, in part, to keep incongruent uses away from each other? I can't think of a worse neighbor for a school and residential neighborhood than a giant stadium.

 

The Nashville site plan on the Nashville Fairgrounds is the model for what they're trying to do here.  A stadium and real estate zone owned by the team on public land they get for free or almost free.  If they build a stadium between Central Ave. and John, the strip between Central and Central could become a Lindner-owned area.  As I have already said, you can count on them going after the Police District 1 parking lot. 

 

The Nashville Fairground is an isolated site about 2-3 miles southeast of DT Nashville.  This site in the West End is much better.  Imagine how booming DT and OTR will be on days when there is a soccer game and a Reds game. 

 

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