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cincydave8

Cincinnati: West End: FC Cincinnati Stadium

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Question...if Hamilton County was to build a 500 parking space gagrage on one of the larger Findley market parking lots (which I'm assuming would be the area for it, if they choose that route), would this be equivalent to the parking garage structure on sycamore street where it's elevated versus underground?

 

Ive always envisioned for that Findley market parking lot for a dense structure that would be a continuation of the market. I really hope it won't be a massive parking garage with 0 ground floor retail/units for residents. 

Edited by troeros

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If they narrow Liberty St., this triangular lot could be make into a parking garage with a  development above it, especially if an underground garage is permitted to extend under the street. 

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1129641,-84.5203772,103m/data=!3m1!1e3

 

 

Also, I'm sure that Sam Adams has contemplated developing their employee parking lot:

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.113643,-84.5221962,206m/data=!3m1!1e3

Edited by jmecklenborg

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On 11/30/2018 at 6:49 PM, jmecklenborg said:

If they narrow Liberty St., this triangular lot could be make into a parking garage with a  development above it, especially if an underground garage is permitted to extend under the street. 

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1129641,-84.5203772,103m/data=!3m1!1e3

 

 

Also, I'm sure that Sam Adams has contemplated developing their employee parking lot:

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.113643,-84.5221962,206m/data=!3m1!1e3

 

Is there any precedent for building a garage underneath an existing street in Cincinnati? That seems like it'd be exorbitantly expensive. But I like the idea if somebody is willing to pay for it!

 

I also like the idea of redeveloping the parking lot in front of Sam Adams. And if done in conjunction with Liberty Street improvements and the redeveloped Ballet site, I hope they "straighten" out Liberty. I hate the curve in Liberty between Central Ave and Central Parkway. 

libertycurve.JPG

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27 minutes ago, jwulsin said:

 

Is there any precedent for building a garage underneath an existing street in Cincinnati? That seems like it'd be exorbitantly expensive. But I like the idea if somebody is willing to pay for it!

 

I also like the idea of redeveloping the parking lot in front of Sam Adams. And if done in conjunction with Liberty Street improvements and the redeveloped Ballet site, I hope they "straighten" out Liberty. I hate the curve in Liberty between Central Ave and Central Parkway. 

libertycurve.JPG

 

I believe part of Fountain Square garage extends under 5th street to the US Bank building.

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Yes, the Fountain Square garage was built under the former 5th St. esplanade and abuts the foundation of the Westin Hotel.  So it therefore blocks a cut-and-cover subway under 5th St., which is the ideal east/west subway street because of the 100ft width between Vine St. and Main St. 

 

When the subway was planned in the 1910s, there was at least one sketch made for an elaborate multitrack station for rapid transit and interurban trains beneath Fountain and Government Squares, a length of just under 1,000 feet.  But it would have been horrendously expensive as compared to the cost of building a similar facility under Central Parkway. 

 

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How seating at FC Cincinnati's new stadium will compare with Nippert

 

mj3a2123*750xx2000-1125-0-104.jpg

 

FC Cincinnati’s supporters groups are going to have a lot more seats in the Bailey and premium seats will be more plentiful when the team moves into its new stadium in a little more than two years.

 

Those are among the details the club revealed last week when it filed stadium development plans with city of Cincinnati officials. Those plans included a breakdown of seating categories for the new stadium.

 

Preliminary plans call for 3,100 seats in the Bailey supporters’ section behind the north goal in the new stadium. That’s nearly double the 1,700 seats in the Bailey at the team’s current Nippert Stadium home on the University of Cincinnati's campus, Jeff Smith, FC Cincinnati’s vice president of ticket sales and service, told me. 

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/12/03/exclusive-how-seating-at-fc-cincinnatis-new.html

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I sold the lots I owned north of the stadium this morning.  The transaction hasn't been recorded yet, but I the buyer is an LLC affiliated with the company that built The Radius at The Banks.  so expect something big to go up between John & Central and between Wade and Liberty. 

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1127334,-84.5234536,173m/data=!3m1!1e3

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48 minutes ago, jmecklenborg said:

I sold the lots I owned north of the stadium this morning.  The transaction hasn't been recorded yet, but I the buyer is an LLC affiliated with the company that built The Radius at The Banks.  so expect something big to go up between John & Central and between Wade and Liberty. 

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1127334,-84.5234536,173m/data=!3m1!1e3

 

This is most likely different than the future development phase that was outlined along central parkway correct?

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^Yes.  This is completely separate and in addition to whatever the team develops itself.  So we're going to see a pretty intense cluster of development from John St. east to Central Parkway, and then south. 

 

That's why I'd be a little worried for Ollie's Trolley and I expect that Sam Adams has explored developing its employee parking lot on the north side of Liberty between Central Parkway and Central Ave. 

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I swiped this link  from Jake's post about the FCC stadium but before everything there gets redeveloped and even the streets disappear I wanted to share a weird fact about a house that used to be at John Street and Central. For those who have read Devil in the White City, this is where the infamous serial killer H.H Holmes briefly stayed on his run from the law and where he my have attempted to burn the body of one of his victims. https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1142058,-84.5237588,172m/data=!3m1!1e3.

https://www.cincinnatimagazine.com/citywiseblog/the-devil-in-the-queen-city/

Weird I know but i like these little links to bigger events. Much like all the history that came up about the State Theater recently. I had no idea such large acts played there and some within days of each other. Not much there now in comparison but that little block was quite alive in it's day

 

 

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4 hours ago, jmecklenborg said:

^Yes.  This is completely separate and in addition to whatever the team develops itself.  So we're going to see a pretty intense cluster of development from John St. east to Central Parkway, and then south. 

 

That's why I'd be a little worried for Ollie's Trolley and I expect that Sam Adams has explored developing its employee parking lot on the north side of Liberty between Central Parkway and Central Ave. 

 

Interesting. Sounds like the vision could be something equivalent with the banks and the stadiums surrounding it? Perhaps creating a west end zone with with a block of retail/residential. 

 

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^Frankly it's a waste of the parking garages and restaurants/entertainment that already exist at The Banks.  The the max potential attendance of an MLS season in a 25,000 seat stadium is much lower than The Bengals, despite 2x as many games, and a fraction of the annual attendance at Great American, even when The Reds finish in last place like they did this year. 

 

So if The Banks struggles with 1.5 million fans from baseball, another 500,000 from football, and a few hundred thousand from events at US Bank, there is little hope for entertainment relying on the soccer team in the West End.  That's why I got rid of my land. 

 

But an additional 400,000 people coming down to the riverfront for 20~ home soccer games would have been a significant boon for The Banks.  It would have helped fill in those Saturdays and Wednesdays from April through September when The Reds are out of town.   And days when both play would have had an impact similar to a Bengals home game. 

 

When I was driving for Uber 2014-2016, there was simply no comparing the traffic from a 65,000 game at Paul Brown as compared to a typical 25,000 game at Great American.  It was total gridlock for 45 minutes to an hour after a Bengals game versus having to wait through 2-3 red lights at some point.  25,000 people coming out of UDF Field won't generate anything near the impact that people imagine. 

 

Edited by jmecklenborg

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22 minutes ago, jmecklenborg said:

^Frankly it's a waste of the parking garages and restaurants/entertainment that already exist at The Banks.  The the max potential attendance of an MLS season in a 25,000 seat stadium is much lower than The Bengals, despite 2x as many games, and a fraction of the annual attendance at Great American, even when The Reds finish in last place like they did this year. 

 

So if The Banks struggles with 1.5 million fans from baseball, another 500,000 from football, and a few hundred thousand from events at US Bank, there is little hope for entertainment relying on the soccer team in the West End.  That's why I got rid of my land. 

 

But an additional 400,000 people coming down to the riverfront for 20~ home soccer games would have been a significant boon for The Banks.  It would have helped fill in those Saturdays and Wednesdays from April through September when The Reds are out of town.   And days when both play would have had an impact similar to a Bengals home game. 

 

When I was driving for Uber 2014-2016, there was simply no comparing the traffic from a 65,000 game at Paul Brown as compared to a typical 25,000 game at Great American.  It was total gridlock for 45 minutes to an hour after a Bengals game versus having to wait through 2-3 red lights at some point.  25,000 people coming out of UDF Field won't generate anything near the impact that people imagine. 

 

 

I would argue that the banks, especially during the summer it is quite hopping. The streets were crowded, the bars were packed. The atmosphere was quite strong. It definitely struggles in the winter time and probably had alot to do with lack of sport activities. 

 

I feel like alot of people flock to otr because its entertainment package is more dense. Main Street alone offers roughly 15 bars at this point, otr alone probably has 30-35 bars. The banks has like what? 4 bars? 1 live music venue bar and club with Galla Park. 

 

It's just not the same experience honestly.

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The banks just needs to keep moving along with development, especially while the economy is good.  Get the music venue built.  Get another hotel built.  Add more office space.  Add more residential with some condo's or townhomes mixed in.  It's only half built out right now so obviously it doesn't feel like a full neighborhood.  The steering committee is wasting time trying to find a new "master developer" while all the neighborhoods around it (OTR, Covington, Newport, West End) are building or redeveloping new places.  The fact that everything at the banks has to get approval by the committee, city and county before anything can be built has completely hampered development.  

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7 hours ago, jmecklenborg said:

^Frankly it's a waste of the parking garages and restaurants/entertainment that already exist at The Banks.  The the max potential attendance of an MLS season in a 25,000 seat stadium is much lower than The Bengals, despite 2x as many games, and a fraction of the annual attendance at Great American, even when The Reds finish in last place like they did this year. 

 

So if The Banks struggles with 1.5 million fans from baseball, another 500,000 from football, and a few hundred thousand from events at US Bank, there is little hope for entertainment relying on the soccer team in the West End.  That's why I got rid of my land. 

 

But an additional 400,000 people coming down to the riverfront for 20~ home soccer games would have been a significant boon for The Banks.  It would have helped fill in those Saturdays and Wednesdays from April through September when The Reds are out of town.   And days when both play would have had an impact similar to a Bengals home game. 

 

When I was driving for Uber 2014-2016, there was simply no comparing the traffic from a 65,000 game at Paul Brown as compared to a typical 25,000 game at Great American.  It was total gridlock for 45 minutes to an hour after a Bengals game versus having to wait through 2-3 red lights at some point.  25,000 people coming out of UDF Field won't generate anything near the impact that people imagine. 

 

But people already frequent OTR before this stadium is even built.  More people live, visit, shop, eat and drink in OTR already then at the banks.  The banks has the built in crowds of the Reds and Bengals and outside of those days they do get a solid to good crowd on weekends depending on the season.  But their non gameday crowds are nothing compared to how many people are out in OTR.  I don't think building a banks sized development around the new FCC stadium would be smart, but I also don't think that's going to happen.  The area could certainly support a couple new bars, restaurants and especially a hotel or two.  Considering north of Liberty still hasn't really been developed OTR has an even higher tourism ceiling then it already has.  

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8 hours ago, troeros said:

 

Interesting. Sounds like the vision could be something equivalent with the banks and the stadiums surrounding it? Perhaps creating a west end zone with with a block of retail/residential. 

 

 

I worry that we're going to end up with a random hodgepodge of parking structures around the FCC stadium and that's it's going to be "urban in name only".

 

 

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^Yeah I have no faith in these people.  Plus, they're receiving tens of millions in public funds but have lied to the public throughout this process about what their actual plans are.  The city and county commitments should have been contingent upon firm plans for the stadium.  Instead, they keep playing games. 

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1 hour ago, taestell said:

 

I worry that we're going to end up with a random hodgepodge of parking structures around the FCC stadium and that's it's going to be "urban in name only".

 

 

Yeah, but it's also true that it might make little sense to put a huge parking structure right at the FCC site, which will be activated 30 dates/year. They stated that one of the things they're looking at is a smaller parking structure first near Findlay. Given the way the Findlay node is progressing, I think that's a wiser use of county money for parking, compared to one large facility at FCC that would likely see lower use overall.

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The details really, really, really matter here, and so far we've seen virtually nothing. It would be great if they could replace the old Town Center garage with a new one that has ground floor retail and maybe another use (residential or office) above. The county could coordinate with the developer of Liberty & Elm to gracefully integrate a public garage into that development. There are many possibilities but I have little faith at this point that this is going to be executed properly.

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Not to mention, there was a rumor going around that the county was going to build the new garage near Findlay Market, so Berding himself showed up at the Hamilton County Commission meeting to speak during the public comment period and demand that the new garage be built directly next to the stadium. So we went through all of this drama over the fact that they claimed to want an "urban stadium" and the team ownership still doesn't seem to understand what that means. People might have to park in a different part of the neighborhood and walk a few blocks to the stadium. That's the whole point!

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Is the town center garage privately owned?  Or does the city already own it?  They really need to get that torn down, build a new bigger garage in it's place and have retail/residential built into it.  

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Someone needs to get the FCC people to meet with the folks developing the new Crew stadium, or take them up to Little Caesars Arena in Detroit to show how to somwhat-properly integrate a stadium into a mixed-use project.

Edited by BigDipper 80

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Speaking of land swaps, it would make a lot of sense to turn the unfinished center section of City West into a park and to develop Laurel Playground:

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.112293,-84.5250836,396m/data=!3m1!1e3

 

Get rid of the traffic circle and the streets north of it.  Connect Pinecone Ln. to Liberty and develop most of the area north of Wade. 

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4 hours ago, Cincy513 said:

Is the town center garage privately owned?  Or does the city already own it?  They really need to get that torn down, build a new bigger garage in it's place and have retail/residential built into it.  

 

Yes I'm curious about that garage as well. I was under the impression that it was in poor condition so I'm confused why nothing is being mentioned about that garage in regards to a replacement??

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^Parking garages have a tendency to be in "poor condition" when big public money is floating around. 

 

The Riverfront Stadium parking garage was found to suddenly be in "poor condition" when talk of the new stadiums started.  A city-owned garage at the SW corner of Race & 6th suddenly failed an inspection when Nordstrom wanted to come to town in 1999.   

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The Town Center garage is owned by the city. The city has been trying for many years to tear it down and replace it, even before the West End FCC stadium location was selected. However the county has committed to build the new garage, not the city.

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