Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Ram23

Political Correctness

Recommended Posts

Think, for a minute, about what that reason might be.

 

Mobs who seek to silence dissent are rarely, if ever, on the right side of history.

 

 

The questions was, "The political climate these days prevents me from saying things I believe because others might find them offensive."  The majority of people answering this poll question not named Milo Yiannopoulos have never been silenced by a mob of angry liberals or anarchists.  Most of these people are uncomfortable expressing their political opinions because in many cases those opinions are met with a stern, oftentimes emotional reaction from people harmed by that political opinion and they can't take it because they're #snowflakes.  This has nothing to do with mobs of people preventing free speech and it has everything to do with many conservatives being unable to defend their opinions publicly.  I see it all the time with my conservative family and friends.  They hold a popular conservative view because it's what they've been told to believe, but when questioned on it they are completely unable to defend the position because it's just a superficial opinion that's been imposed on them by conservative media.  Gay marriage is a good example.  When questioned on why gay people shouldn't be allowed to get married many conservatives will end up realizing that they hold this view simply because they don't like gay people.  And that upsets many of them because they have a conscience and don't really want to hate anybody.  So what's the solution?  Stop talking about it.  This isn't a strictly conservative phenomena, but it's much more pervasive on that side of the spectrum.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

we must keep in mind that we are all Americans first

 

For many people, they were XYZ citizen first or had XYZ heritage passed down from their parents who came to America.

 

I'm fine with them celebrating or living their life as they see fit.  They don't need to "become American."  That's...like...the entire point of America.  Freedom, liberty, etc.  As long as they pay their appropriate share of tax and follow the laws, I don't really care what they do (with a preference to being a nice, decent person of course).

 

You seem to think that becoming an American and putting America First means you have to give up on your past culture and beliefs. That is not true and not any different than the garbage spewed by the white nationalists.  If you are a citizen, being an American first means you put the interests of your country at the forefront.

 

What are those interests?  That's the rub.  We don't agree on a common set of values or goals anymore. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are a lot of interesting survey results here:

 

Poll: 71% of Americans Say Political Correctness Has Silenced Discussions Society Needs to Have, 58% Have Political Views They’re Afraid to Share

 

Some of the extra tidbits I found interesting:

 

- Nearly two-thirds (61%) of Hillary Clinton’s voters agree that it’s “hard” to be friends with Donald Trump’s voters. However, only 34% of Trump’s voters feel the same way about Clinton’s. Instead, nearly two-thirds (64%) of Trump voters don’t think it’s hard to be friends with Clinton voters.

 

- People of Color Don’t Find Most Microaggressions Offensive

 

- 51% of Democrats support a law that requires Americans use transgender people’s preferred gender pronouns.

 

- 80% of liberals say it’s hateful or offensive to say illegal immigrants should be deported; only 36% of conservatives agree.

 

So are NFL players not being politically correct?  They are trying to have a conversation that Trump doesn't want to have.  If political correctness silences discussions we need to have, why are people trying to silence them?

 

Think, for a minute, about what that reason might be.

 

Mobs who seek to silence dissent are rarely, if ever, on the right side of history.

 

 

Except of course Trump and his mob at Fox News trying to silence the dissent of NFL players.  They are clearly on the right side of history, right?

 

The comical thing about it is how many people want laws to govern "hate speech" yet people have no idea what actually constitutes "Hate Speech"

 

This sensitizing of college students today is a huge problem. Yes, it would be nice if people were nice and treated everyone with respect, but it is cruel world out there and college is a perfect time for young adults to start learning this lesson and developing coping skills. They are adults, people will be mean sometimes and say things that may not be nice, instead of sulking and complaining about some micro aggression nonsense it would be more beneficial for them to learn to move on from it instead of trying to find a way to be offended (because someone told them they should be)

 

You tell em!  Black people - don't be so thin skinned when people are racist, get over it!  Gay people, who cares if people are homophobic and politicians like Roy Moore think being gay should be illegal, get over it! 

 

It's so easy for (i assume) straight white males to tell people not to be offended. 

 

It is easy to go through life angry and offended and feel like you are owed something. If you don't take minor slights seriously and focus on your overall goals you will find yourself happier and able to achieve them much more than getting angry.

 

If you are a gay Alabamaian your state just elected a Senator who says you should be jailed for being gay.  Please tell those people to not be angry or offended.


Very Stable Genius

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

we must keep in mind that we are all Americans first

 

For many people, they were XYZ citizen first or had XYZ heritage passed down from their parents who came to America.

 

I'm fine with them celebrating or living their life as they see fit.  They don't need to "become American."  That's...like...the entire point of America.  Freedom, liberty, etc.  As long as they pay their appropriate share of tax and follow the laws, I don't really care what they do (with a preference to being a nice, decent person of course).

 

You seem to think that becoming an American and putting America First means you have to give up on your past culture and beliefs. That is not true and not any different than the garbage spewed by the white nationalists.  If you are a citizen, being an American first means you put the interests of your country at the forefront.

 

Who dictates the "interests" of America?  Congress?  The citizens?  Apparently, America's interest (as dictated by #45 and #cult45) is to withdraw from the Paris Accord, revert back to coal, and further our pollution of planet.  Do I stop recycling?

 

Apparently, America's interest is to block access to all Muslims entering our country right now.  For those Muslims in America who have family members who can't come and see them, should they put America's interests first?

 

The Commander in Chief doesn't want transgender people serving in the military.  If you're transgender and wanted to serve to defend your country, what are you to do?

 

I could go on, but the point is there is no set of common interests or goals as far as I'm aware.  So I don't really know what you mean when you say, "If you are a citizen, being an American first means you put the interests of your country at the forefront."  It just sounds like more nationalism b.s.


Very Stable Genius

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are a lot of interesting survey results here:

 

Poll: 71% of Americans Say Political Correctness Has Silenced Discussions Society Needs to Have, 58% Have Political Views Theyre Afraid to Share

 

Some of the extra tidbits I found interesting:

 

- Nearly two-thirds (61%) of Hillary Clintons voters agree that its hard to be friends with Donald Trumps voters. However, only 34% of Trumps voters feel the same way about Clintons. Instead, nearly two-thirds (64%) of Trump voters dont think its hard to be friends with Clinton voters.

 

- People of Color Dont Find Most Microaggressions Offensive

 

- 51% of Democrats support a law that requires Americans use transgender peoples preferred gender pronouns.

 

- 80% of liberals say its hateful or offensive to say illegal immigrants should be deported; only 36% of conservatives agree.

 

So are NFL players not being politically correct?  They are trying to have a conversation that Trump doesn't want to have.  If political correctness silences discussions we need to have, why are people trying to silence them?

 

Think, for a minute, about what that reason might be.

 

Mobs who seek to silence dissent are rarely, if ever, on the right side of history.

 

 

Except of course Trump and his mob at Fox News trying to silence the dissent of NFL players.  They are clearly on the right side of history, right?

 

The comical thing about it is how many people want laws to govern "hate speech" yet people have no idea what actually constitutes "Hate Speech"

 

This sensitizing of college students today is a huge problem. Yes, it would be nice if people were nice and treated everyone with respect, but it is cruel world out there and college is a perfect time for young adults to start learning this lesson and developing coping skills. They are adults, people will be mean sometimes and say things that may not be nice, instead of sulking and complaining about some micro aggression nonsense it would be more beneficial for them to learn to move on from it instead of trying to find a way to be offended (because someone told them they should be)

 

You tell em!  Black people - don't be so thin skinned when people are racist, get over it!  Gay people, who cares if people are homophobic and politicians like Roy Moore think being gay should be illegal, get over it! 

 

It's so easy for (i assume) straight white males to tell people not to be offended. 

 

It is easy to go through life angry and offended and feel like you are owed something. If you don't take minor slights seriously and focus on your overall goals you will find yourself happier and able to achieve them much more than getting angry.

 

If you are a gay Alabamaian your state just elected a Senator who says you should be jailed for being gay.  Please tell those people to not be angry or offended.

 

I am happy to do so. SOmetimes shit happens. You can pout and cry about it and say life is unfair, or you can make the best of it and deal with it. You control your reactions. Successful people don't let these things stand in their way. So if you are a gay Alabaman who does not like Roy Moore, don't pout about it, do something, move if need be, but don't use his election as a crutch to keep you down.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^ That's like telling Jews to not let Hitler being in power keep them down.

 

You say "do something"... well raising one's voice and saying "THIS ISN'T OK" IS DOING SOMETHING!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^ not exactly, being pissed off and angry is not productive and will not really get you results. When I say do something, I mean do something that will achieve results

 

True that, but anger is hardly inappropriate when someone openly attacks you.  The fact that the attack is also an opinion changes nothing.  It's still an attack, and the attacker should accept personal responsibility for it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^ that would be nice in a perfect world to have the attacker accept responsibility, but while the victim may deserve it, they should not have an expectation of the attacker accepting responsibility so therefore, the victim needs to move on with their life and try to be as productive as possible without any expectation that the attacker will admit responsibility. If it happens, then great, but to wait for it is not productive in the least bit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You seem to be arguing against safe spaces, and I'm with you there to an extent, but the version of personal responsibility you're advancing does not mesh with other common applications of that concept.  You're shifting all responsibility from the speaker to the audience.  But regardless of what the victims should do, the attacker's guilt remains.  Claiming "PC" does not absolve it.  The attack still took place and the attacker is still responsible-- even in a perfectly normal world.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

we must keep in mind that we are all Americans first

 

For many people, they were XYZ citizen first or had XYZ heritage passed down from their parents who came to America.

 

I'm fine with them celebrating or living their life as they see fit.  They don't need to "become American."  That's...like...the entire point of America.  Freedom, liberty, etc.  As long as they pay their appropriate share of tax and follow the laws, I don't really care what they do (with a preference to being a nice, decent person of course).

 

You seem to think that becoming an American and putting America First means you have to give up on your past culture and beliefs. That is not true and not any different than the garbage spewed by the white nationalists.  If you are a citizen, being an American first means you put the interests of your country at the forefront.

 

We are naturally going to have a lot of disagreement over how to define what "America's interests" are.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I love it when straight white guys who've never faced oppression in their life get on their soap box and tell victims and those being oppressed how to react to oppression, especially when it comes in the form of an elected official telling you that you are illegal for the way you are.


Very Stable Genius

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You seem to be arguing against safe spaces, and I'm with you there to an extent, but the version of personal responsibility you're advancing does not mesh with other common applications of that concept.  You're shifting all responsibility from the speaker to the audience.  But regardless of what the victims should do, the attacker's guilt remains.  Claiming "PC" does not absolve it.  The attack still took place and the attacker is still responsible-- even in a perfectly normal world.

 

Not at all. My position is that the world is a cruel place and there are a lot of jerks out there. Unfortunately, you cannot legislate jerks out of society so we need to learn how to cope with them. There will always be assholes and bullies no matter what legislation some charlatan tries to propose.  The question is whether the victims of the jerks of the world accept their fate and just sit around and wait for society to "compensate" them for their pain or if they go about living their lives and moving past their grievances and moving on with their lives in as productive a manner as possible and not dwelling on the fact that someone wronged them at some point in their life. While we feel sorry for the victims and empathize with them, after a while, if the victims don't take any action on their own, people have a hard time continuing to feel sorry for them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You seem to be arguing against safe spaces, and I'm with you there to an extent, but the version of personal responsibility you're advancing does not mesh with other common applications of that concept.  You're shifting all responsibility from the speaker to the audience.  But regardless of what the victims should do, the attacker's guilt remains.  Claiming "PC" does not absolve it.  The attack still took place and the attacker is still responsible-- even in a perfectly normal world.

 

Not at all. My position is that the world is a cruel place and there are a lot of jerks out there. Unfortunately, you cannot legislate jerks out of society so we need to learn how to cope with them.

 

Isn't legislating against "jerkiness" the whole point of society? It sounds like you're advocating for "boot-strapping" but that only works if you have boots in the first place.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I love it when straight white guys who've never faced oppression in their life get on their soap box and tell victims and those being oppressed how to react to oppression,

 

You prove my point by playing the victim card. This is such a self defeating statement and ensures you will be stuck in victimhood. You can whine about privilege all you want but that does not change the fact that life is hard and we all face challenges and oppression. Nothing is easy and the sooner we accept this, and move from this the happier people will be.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I love it when straight white guys who've never faced oppression in their life get on their soap box and tell victims and those being oppressed how to react to oppression,

 

You prove my point by playing the victim card. This is such a self defeating statement and ensures you will be stuck in victimhood. You can whine about privilege all you want but that does not change the fact that life is hard and we all face challenges and oppression. Nothing is easy and the sooner we accept this, and move from this the happier people will be.

 

We do not all face equal levels of challenge and oppression. Most of us aren't even oppressed. Many many many groups are.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You seem to be arguing against safe spaces, and I'm with you there to an extent, but the version of personal responsibility you're advancing does not mesh with other common applications of that concept.  You're shifting all responsibility from the speaker to the audience.  But regardless of what the victims should do, the attacker's guilt remains.  Claiming "PC" does not absolve it.  The attack still took place and the attacker is still responsible-- even in a perfectly normal world.

 

Not at all. My position is that the world is a cruel place and there are a lot of jerks out there. Unfortunately, you cannot legislate jerks out of society so we need to learn how to cope with them.

 

Isn't legislating against "jerkiness" the whole point of society? It sounds like you're advocating for "boot-strapping" but that only works if you have boots in the first place.

 

There are limitations to this, such as legislating hurtful and hateful speech. The Constitution gives us a lot of individual liberty and there is a very tedious balancing act over what we can do and cannot do to infringe on that individual liberty. In many cases, there are many good policy decisions that other countries may do but cannot be done in the US because of our strong principles of individual liberty. SOmetimes what may be good for the group is not always the best for the country. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I love it when straight white guys who've never faced oppression in their life get on their soap box and tell victims and those being oppressed how to react to oppression,

 

You prove my point by playing the victim card. This is such a self defeating statement and ensures you will be stuck in victimhood. You can whine about privilege all you want but that does not change the fact that life is hard and we all face challenges and oppression. Nothing is easy and the sooner we accept this, and move from this the happier people will be.

 

We do not all face equal levels of challenge and oppression. Most of us aren't even oppressed. Many many many groups are.

 

I never said that everyone had equal problems, but only that everyone faces their own set of challenges. We are all individuals and therefore offer different perspectives and unique points of view. Because of this, we cant be "equal" in the sense that everyone has the same opportunity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I love it when straight white guys who've never faced oppression in their life get on their soap box and tell victims and those being oppressed how to react to oppression,

 

You prove my point by playing the victim card. This is such a self defeating statement and ensures you will be stuck in victimhood. You can whine about privilege all you want but that does not change the fact that life is hard and we all face challenges and oppression. Nothing is easy and the sooner we accept this, and move from this the happier people will be.

 

We do not all face equal levels of challenge and oppression. Most of us aren't even oppressed. Many many many groups are.

 

I never said that everyone had equal problems, but only that everyone faces their own set of challenges. We are all individuals and therefore offer different perspectives and unique points of view. Because of this, we cant be "equal" in the sense that everyone has the same opportunity.

Just because it's impossible to give everyone the exact same opportunities doesn't mean we shouldn't strive to do everything we can to level the playing field. Life isn't like, just a matter of perspective man. The fact is if you're white, straight, and male in the United States you have an unfair advantage in almost all aspects of society. Political correctness is the one tiny corner of society where white males are made to feel uncomfortable, so of course it rankles.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^ This is the exact example of the self defeatist victimized attitude that keeps people down and keeps them oppressed. The beautiful thing about America is that If you do not like your lot, you can do something about it. You may not achieve your exact goal but you will get a whole lot closer to your goals if you do something about it instead of just whining.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You are both right in a way. I think the left wing mentality can be bad for people's personal confidence and achievement, etc. People whether marginalized or not should not wait for politics to save them.

 

But too often the right wants to dismiss very legitimate concerns of structural racism, and try to shut down all conversation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^ This is the exact example of the self defeatist victimized attitude that keeps people down and keeps them oppressed. The beautiful thing about America is that If you do not like your lot, you can do something about it. You may not achieve your exact goal but you will get a whole lot closer to your goals if you do something about it instead of just whining.

^This is a perfect example of the chauvinistic and willfully ignorant attitude that allows whole segments of society to be continually oppressed. The beautiful thing about America is that it's a partially rigged system that allows one race to maintain its hegemony without any effort. You can achieve your exact goals by reclassifying legitimate political grievances as whining.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^ This is the exact example of the self defeatist victimized attitude that keeps people down and keeps them oppressed. The beautiful thing about America is that If you do not like your lot, you can do something about it. You may not achieve your exact goal but you will get a whole lot closer to your goals if you do something about it instead of just whining.

 

Yeah, DO SOMETHING!  Stop being black!  Stop being gay!  Stop being latino!  Stop being a woman! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^ sounds a lot like the Bernie Sanders kool aid. The beautiful thing about America is that it is not a rigged system and the tools are there for anyone who understands how to play the game. The problem is that the majority do not understand the game or do not try and understand how to play it. They get frustrated, because 1) life is hard and 2) they are dealt set backs and give up and quit fighting.  Sometimes, yes, there are limitations as to what people can do but most of the barriers we put up in life are internal.

 

If you look at many of the highly successful people in the country, the vast majority come from humble backgrounds. This is not Europe where the only way to get to power or achieve great success is to have a silver spoon in your mouth. Most people get there through sheer grit and determination. Yes, some people may start a few steps ahead of others in the race, but that does not mean the race is not worth running, and it is also important to remember that just because you start from behind, the race is not about finishing first, it just matters that we finish and starting from behind does not preclude you from finishing.

 

So while you classify whining as political grievances, at the end of the day, if it keeps you from running the race, you are just whining

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^ This is the exact example of the self defeatist victimized attitude that keeps people down and keeps them oppressed. The beautiful thing about America is that If you do not like your lot, you can do something about it. You may not achieve your exact goal but you will get a whole lot closer to your goals if you do something about it instead of just whining.

 

Yeah, DO SOMETHING!  Stop being black!  Stop being gay!  Stop being latino!  Stop being a woman! 

This is just an ignorant statement. Last I knew, there are many successful professionals who are black, gay, female and latino. So again, using these as excuses and barriers is just plain ignorant.

Stop making excuses and do something, quit using race or gender as a crutch because that is all it is, an excuse. 

 

Do you know anyone who is a female or minority who is successful in life??? IF you don't, then your excuse has merit, but I am sure you do, so lets cut the crap and call this excuse what it is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^ This is the exact example of the self defeatist victimized attitude that keeps people down and keeps them oppressed. The beautiful thing about America is that If you do not like your lot, you can do something about it. You may not achieve your exact goal but you will get a whole lot closer to your goals if you do something about it instead of just whining.

 

Yeah, DO SOMETHING!  Stop being black!  Stop being gay!  Stop being latino!  Stop being a woman! 

This is just an ignorant statement. Last I knew, there are many successful professionals who are black, gay, female and latino. So again, using these as excuses and barriers is just plain ignorant.

Stop making excuses and do something, quit using race or gender as a crutch because that is all it is, an excuse. 

 

Do you know anyone who is a female or minority who is successful in life??? IF you don't, then your excuse has merit, but I am sure you do, so lets cut the crap and call this excuse what it is.

If you don't think racism or sexism prevent people from prospering in America, I don't know what to tell you except you're either incredibly naive, racist, or both.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Acknowledging that racism and sexism exist and saying that people are unable to prosper because of them are 2 different things. Yes, racism and sexism exist, but despite that, there are millions of Americans who come from all walks of life and all shapes and sizes who are highly successful and prosper despite this. What keeps people from prospering much more than racism and sexism is holding your self defeatist attitude.

 

You comments pretty much state that 1) you cannot be a doctor or lawyer because of their skin color 2) you cannot run a large company because you are a woman 3) you cannot be an influential legislator, cabinet secretary, etc because of your race or gender.  All of these statements are patently false and the fact is despite the obstacles, there are many people that overcome them and are still thriving. Therefore, while the obstacles exist and there is no denying that, they are not the reason why people do not succeed. So all the Bernie acolytes need to rip that false narrative out of the playbook.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A bachelor's degree usually requires roughly 40 different classes...you might have 2-3 of the professors twice.  So you're going to have somewhere between 35-40 professors.  If you're in an ordinary major, the likelihood that you're going to receive a top-to-bottom brainwashing by ultra-liberal professors is zero.  Obviously, if you major in cultural studies or women's studies, everyone in that department is going to operate to the left of your grandparents.

 

The general leftward shift of younger Americans has been caused much more by pop culture, in my opinion, as opposed to leftist brainwashing on college campuses.  There is simply no question that pop culture entertainment has made homosexuality a much more excepted part of life than it was just 15 years ago.  A long line of black comedians and newer characters like Aziz Ansari have been successful in getting the white majority to better understand how they are perceived by minorities to a larger extent than has leftist academic literature.   

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A long line of black comedians and newer characters like Aziz Ansari have been successful in getting the white majority to better understand how they are perceived by minorities to a larger extent than has leftist academic literature.   

 

I would agree with this - Chris Rock in the late 90s and then Dave Chappelle in the early 2000s were definitely what opened my eyes to a lot of racial dynamics that school glossed over. I'm almost 30 FWIW. My business degree from Miami was certainly no left-wing brainwashing (might've even been the opposite), though CSU's college of urban affairs, where I currently am doing a masters, is closer to the stereotype.

 

 

Furthermore, every generation is "further to the left" on cultural issues than their parents, probably since the middle ages, at least in western society. Then when they get old, they become the conservatives.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ahh yes, because one woman "made it" must mean the playing field is level for all women.  Because one black guy "made it" must mean the playing field is level for all African Americans.

 

Spoken like a white guy.


Very Stable Genius

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

If you look at many of the highly successful people in the country, the vast majority come from humble backgrounds. This is not Europe where the only way to get to power or achieve great success is to have a silver spoon in your mouth. Most people get there through sheer grit and determination. Yes, some people may start a few steps ahead of others in the race, but that does not mean the race is not worth running, and it is also important to remember that just because you start from behind, the race is not about finishing first, it just matters that we finish and starting from behind does not preclude you from finishing.

 

 

 

 

 

This is an outdated fable left over from the 1960s.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good points on both sides being made in this thread. Just wanted to chime in that relying on the government to ease racial and social injustice isn't always the best solution. Despite what you think the role of the government is, nothing is stopping you, as an individual, to do some part in making a positive difference.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ahh yes, because one woman "made it" much mean the playing field is level for all women.  Because one black guy "made it" much mean the playing field is level for all women.

 

Spoken like a white guy.

 

 

 

 

If you look at many of the highly successful people in the country, the vast majority come from humble backgrounds. This is not Europe where the only way to get to power or achieve great success is to have a silver spoon in your mouth. Most people get there through sheer grit and determination. Yes, some people may start a few steps ahead of others in the race, but that does not mean the race is not worth running, and it is also important to remember that just because you start from behind, the race is not about finishing first, it just matters that we finish and starting from behind does not preclude you from finishing.

 

 

 

 

 

This is an outdated fable left over from the 1960s.

 

What year are you living in? I can think of a lot more than one woman or one "black guy" who has made it to influential leadership positions within some of the top companies and governments. So that narrative is patently false.

 

Nobody said the playing field was level and if you are talking about a level playing field for everyone, that is just a quixotic idea that will never exist. In order to truly have a level playing field everyone is starting at the same spot, coming from the same life circumstances and environment and everyone progresses lockstep with one another through life. That obviously is an impossible idea which is why you can never have truly equality because we are all coming at things from different starting points. Even in the same family, order of birth matters too. 

 

Therefore, given this fact, the one thing that our economy offers that many world economies do not is that opportunity to succeed even from the longest odds.

 

The ironic thing is that in the 1960s you would be hard pressed to find a woman or minority who is the head of a Fortune 500 company or in an influential government post. While still in the minority (especially women) you can look around and find numerous professionals in these roles. Again, this is a false and outdated narrative.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem is that millions work just as hard as those success stories and get nowhere since the only person that sees that grit and stick-toitiveness is their direct supervisor. They don't have the opportunity to do it for themselves only due to the need for constant stable income. Almost everyone that "got rich on their own" had an extended period where they had to pay themselves nothing or nearly nothing such as $50-100 a week. Whether it is help from family members, a paid off house, a free car or whatever, they never had to make $350 a week minimum to stay alive.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The other thing that makes that story "old" is that now Europe has better economic mobility than the U.S. In some countries it's much better. One reason is the much better social safety net that doesn't beholden people to their employers or burden them with $400-$1000 a month worth of private health insurance. This empowers entrepreneurship significantly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^ That is true for the vast majority of people. The big change over the past 50 years which again disproves the white privilege crutch is that now there is developing a critical mass of minority entrepreneurs and other successful individuals who have capital to help invest in minority ventures. Now, just because they are minority, they don't necessarily look to invest solely with another minority, the business idea must be strong and feasible too. However, what is happening is that there is naturally becoming more access to capital amongst minorities which will help further advancement. 

 

Now, certainly, there is a challenge and people will struggle who start from more difficult surroundings no matter what your gender or race may be. That is a fact. However, there is still the ability to overcome the odds and become successful to a varying degree. Will they become Warren Buffett? Doubtful, but likely neither will the kid who grows up and goes to prep school. However, they can still achieve success and the American Dream by making a good life for themselves and their families and opening up opportunities for their children that were not available to them. This is a success story too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Almost everyone that "got rich on their own" had an extended period where they had to pay themselves nothing or nearly nothing such as $50-100 a week. Whether it is help from family members, a paid off house, a free car or whatever, they never had to make $350 a week minimum to stay alive.

 

I'm bearing down on 40.  I know a lot of dudes my age who are making good money.  To a man (with the exception of two guys who I can think of right away) they were lavishly supported by their families, emotionally and financially.  None of them overcame significant student loan debt because they didn't have it.  They were able to take unpaid internships.  They always had a car.  They did exchange trips.  Their parents weren't fighting all the time. 

 

The people who I personally know who have started capital-intensive businesses were able to do so thanks to family money.  I'm not going to say who they are because some people in Cincinnati would recognize who I'm talking about.  I do know one guy who did not have family money but he has been steadily employed in the IT field for 20 years and so has much more cash to play with than the ordinary chump. 

 

Fact is that much of the population will be burdened with student loans until ages 40-45 and will never be able to save significantly for retirement, let alone to start a business.  Ownership is where the big money is because taxes are lower but you usually can't achieve ownership without a pile of money, taking on excessive risk, or entering into a hellish sweat equity position where you're the slave of some rich guy. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

An update to this story from last year, which appears to be a misdirected protest of which the root cause was anti-Trump angst:

 

Racial dispute at bakery roils Oberlin College and town

 

http://triblive.com/usworld/world/13056154-74/racial-dispute-at-bakery-roils-oberlin-college-and-town

 

The dispute, which began in November 2016 with the arrest of three black Oberlin students who tried stealing wine from Gibson's, is now a lawsuit in which the exasperated bakery owners accuse the college and a top dean of slandering Gibson's as a “racist establishment” and taking steps to destroy the family's livelihood.

 

Caught in the middle are longtime residents of this town of 8,300 people, many of whom identify themselves as liberals but who have patronized Gibson's for decades. Many believe the timing was right for the conflict to boil over; the arrests came the day after Donald Trump won the presidential election, electrifying students who had long heard suspicions of racial profiling at Gibson's...

 

The three students arrested at Gibson's pleaded guilty in August to attempted theft and aggravated trespassing and said in statements required by a plea agreement that their actions were wrong and that the store wasn't racist.

 

Even so, students continue to boycott Gibson's over perceived racial profiling, causing business to suffer. Pressed by a reporter to provide evidence or examples of profiling, they said only that when black students enter the store, they feel as though they're being watched. “Racism can't always be proven on an Excel sheet,” said Kameron Dunbar, an Oberlin junior and vice chair of the student senate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^ I have a friend who lives in Oberlin. This is anecdotal, of course, but according to her the college has been in some kind of property dispute with the bakery owners for a while.  She and others in the hood think that the school admins are encouraging the protests in an attempt to get even with the owners.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^I read that whole article earlier.  Really a bizarre scenario from all sides.  I can't understand why the college would want to get mixed up in such a thing.  No real winning for the bakery at this point either.  They either roll over, and allow themselves to be labeled as racist or fight to the end of a long messy battle and possibly "win" in some battle with the college...  in order to gain....settlement money?  which will hardly win over the student population

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^ I have a friend who lives in Oberlin. This is anecdotal, of course, but according to her the college has been in some kind of property dispute with the bakery owners for a while.  She and others in the hood think that the school admins are encouraging the protests in an attempt to get even with the owners.

 

I've heard similar, that people associated with the college have designs on the property for their own reasons.  It’s basically a given that they are behind this if student tour guides are permitted to talk about the place being “racist” when it clearly isn’t. 

 

It was kind of amusing when the townies held the cash mob and the bikers sat out front politely drinking their coffee.  The “activists” were rather scarce, weren’t they?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^ I have a friend who lives in Oberlin. This is anecdotal, of course, but according to her the college has been in some kind of property dispute with the bakery owners for a while.  She and others in the hood think that the school admins are encouraging the protests in an attempt to get even with the owners.

 

I've heard similar, that people associated with the college have designs on the property for their own reasons.  It’s basically a given that they are behind this if student tour guides are permitted to talk about the place being “racist” when it clearly isn’t. 

 

It was kind of amusing when the townies held the cash mob and the bikers sat out front politely drinking their coffee.  The “activists” were rather scarce, weren’t they?

 

 

Right, it's allegedly something about the school wanting to build on their lot. I should add that my friend, who is black, has been a customer there for years.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting read, but how is it related to political correctness?

 

The term political correctness (adjectivally: politically correct; commonly abbreviated to PC or P.C.) is used to describe language, policies, or measures that are intended to avoid offense or disadvantage to members of particular groups in society.

 

Am I missing something?


Very Stable Genius

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting read, but how is it related to political correctness?

 

The term political correctness (adjectivally: politically correct; commonly abbreviated to PC or P.C.) is used to describe language, policies, or measures that are intended to avoid offense or disadvantage to members of particular groups in society.

 

Am I missing something?

 

From the artile:

 

Few colleges put the “liberal” into “liberal arts” more than Oberlin, which in the early 1800s became the first in the country to regularly admit women and minorities. But it also more recently has become, for conservatives, a symbol of political correctness gone awry and entitled youth.

 

News articles in 2015 quoted students decrying the school dining hall's sushi and Vietnamese banh mi sandwiches as cultural appropriation...

 

This story is the result of what happens when a culture of political correctness "runs amok," if you will. The real world results are more important than the stories like the "racist sushi" that we can all roll our eyes at.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

This story is the result of what happens when a culture of political correctness "runs amok," if you will. The real world results are more important than the stories like the "racist sushi" that we can all roll our eyes at.

 

It sounds like the story is a disagreement over racial profiling (whether there was profiling of students stealing or not).  I don't see how it's related to political correctness other than anti-PC people hate Oberlin and Oberlin happens to be involved in this story.


Very Stable Genius

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Its about political correctness because you have the university pushing against and slandering a small businessman by using political correctness a guise to try and run him out of business.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...