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Cleveland: New Police Headquarters

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Sounds like a good use of city-owned vacant lots and brownfields on the near east side.  These vacant parcels provide numerous development opportunities as the city rebuilds its housing stock/redevelops those areas that have seen the wrecking ball. 

Edited by Frmr CLEder
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Here's my own meager contribution....

 

 

East+79th+Opportunity+Corridor+areaR.jpg

 

THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 14, 2019

New CPD HQ to rise on Opportunity Corridor; is new county jail far behind?

 

Starting in 2021, as many as 700 workers and hundreds of visitors will come each day to a newly built Cleveland Police Department (CPD) headquarters. Its location? Where the new $350 million Opportunity Corridor boulevard will soon be intersecting East 75th Street.

 

That location was announced publicly today at a hearing of Cleveland City Council's Safety Committee. Specifically the site will be at East 75th and Grand Avenue, just west of the Orlando Baking Co.


MORE:

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2019/11/new-cpd-hq-to-rise-on-opportunity.html

Edited by KJP
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"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities."-Voltaire

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I'm glad it will not consume the precious parcels in the CBD, leaving them instead for future office and residential development.  Furthermore, the city has an over abundance of vacant east-side parcels that need infill.

 

Edited by Frmr CLEder
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At first I was thinking that this isn't a good use for a new economic development corridor in the city. But as I think about it, perhaps the large police presence there could help with perception issues to help attract businesses investment.

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Walking around that area near the red line station is so depressing and empty. I'm happy there at least will be some energy coming back to the area.

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The good news is that the city has numerous empty parcels available to reinvent itself. It will however require appropriate strategic  planning.  Its an opportunity.

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East+79th+vision-Opportunity+Corridor.jp

FRIDAY, NOVEMBER 15, 2019

Cleveland remembers, jump-starts the Forgotten Triangle

 

The 1970s weren't kind to America's older cities. The white middle class fled from them, taking their homes and jobs to the suburbs. Left behind were low-income minorities, shuttered factories and stores, hopelessness, drugs and crime.

Cleveland suffered greatly, losing more residents in the 1970s than any other decade. But Cleveland was far from alone.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2019/11/cleveland-remembers-jump-starts.html

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"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities."-Voltaire

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What a STUPID location. A police headquarters--for ANY city--belongs in its Downtown.  3rd District was already moved from E20 all the way out past E 36 and now the main HQ is also leaving Downtown.  What $hitty leadership and decision-making this city has.

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Welp, opinions vary. 

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"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities."-Voltaire

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12 minutes ago, Pugu said:

What a STUPID location. A police headquarters--for ANY city--belongs in its Downtown.  3rd District was already moved from E20 all the way out past E 36 and now the main HQ is also leaving Downtown.  What $hitty leadership and decision-making this city has.

 

Chicago PD HQ isn't downtown.

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1 hour ago, cfdwarrior said:

I thought you'd be bigger...

 

 

Ha! Fooled you!😉

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"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities."-Voltaire

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7 minutes ago, cfdwarrior said:

For those confused...those were quotes from Roadhouse...

 

 

Yes, now I remember!

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"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities."-Voltaire

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On 11/15/2019 at 2:22 PM, Pugu said:

What a STUPID location. A police headquarters--for ANY city--belongs in its Downtown.  3rd District was already moved from E20 all the way out past E 36 and now the main HQ is also leaving Downtown.  What $hitty leadership and decision-making this city has.

I mean there are definitely officers who agree with you. They will definitely have to keep some sort of presence downtown. However, what they are trying to create is a headquarters and sprawling state of the art  training center. You unfortunately cannot accomplish that downtown for what I am hoping is obvious reasons. 

 

I'm in the academy right now, and though the instruction is top notch, the facilities are horrendous, and no one from top to bottom will disagree with that. It's no secret. We haven't had working water fountains on our floor for over twenty years. The gym is the mechanical floor and until they put up thin drywall up a few years ago (it still is the temperature of whatever it is outside there) you could literally look outside through cracks in the wall 

 

We have to go off site for building searches, the range, driving instruction, and multiple other things that make planning tough. 

 

A lot of the tech is a decade behind. This new building will give them the chance to bring their training and it's facilities up to the standard it should be and still make sure it's under the watchful eye of leadership. 

 

 

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On 11/15/2019 at 2:22 PM, Pugu said:

What a STUPID location. A police headquarters--for ANY city--belongs in its Downtown.  3rd District was already moved from E20 all the way out past E 36 and now the main HQ is also leaving Downtown.  What $hitty leadership and decision-making this city has.



"Belongs Downtown?" 
Are you a disaster management expert; or a traffic engineer; public safety efficiency guru; budget-minded land acquisition genius; - or do you simply want a pretty building where a pretty building ought to be?

From a strategic planning perspective, downtown is not the ideal place to park a bunch of cruisers, or for officers who need to be responsive for residents of the entire city, and it is multiple times more expensive as a place to acquire, construct, and set up shop.
Locating at the nexus of our local interstate system brings better access to the whole town at all times in an area with much less congestion.

Command.jpg

bearing wall.jpg

Edited by ExPatClevGuy
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Chicago's PD headquarters is 35 blocks south of downtown in Bronzeville, and the city is surviving.

 

And hey, at least the Opportunity Corridor will get a tenant. 

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7 hours ago, ExPatClevGuy said:

What a STUPID location. A police headquarters--for ANY city--belongs in its Downtown.  3rd District was already moved from E20 all the way out past E 36 and now the main HQ is also leaving Downtown.  What $hitty leadership and decision-making this city has.

 

 

7 hours ago, ExPatClevGuy said:


"Belongs Downtown?" 
Are you a disaster management expert; or a traffic engineer; public safety efficiency guru; budget-minded land acquisition genius; - or do you simply want a pretty building where a pretty building ought to be?

From a strategic planning perspective, downtown is not the ideal place to park a bunch of cruisers, or for officers who need to be responsive for residents of the entire city, and it is multiple times more expensive as a place to acquire, construct, and set up shop.
Locating at the nexus of our local interstate system brings better access to the whole town at all times in an area with much less congestion.

 

 

 

I AM a public safety expert, but that's besides the point.  "officers who need to be responsive for residents" do not come out of HQ---except in maybe movies. They come out precincts, and in Cleveland they come out of one of the five (formerly six) districts. But actually zone cars are on the streets ALREADY.  Except in movies where they get a phone call and jump out the station and into a vehicle.  In the Districts is where you need space for cruisers (zone cars in Cleveland). HQ is simply that--HQ. Yes, you need parking, but you do that underground like we do already. Regarding the Academy that does not have to be Downtown---Hiring yes, but the actual training facilities could be anywhere, and as stated elsewhere above, those  at the current HQ in the Justice Center are in bad shape and I agree. Put THAT anywhere else, with places to run (like a track), but OFFICE-based HQ functions belongs Downtown, not in the outer areas. Would you put the Mayor's office out of downtown too?  There are certain basic city functions that belong Downtown plain and simple.  The mayor's office, city council chambers, city hall, police HQ, and other departmental HQs. For secondary functions of city departments, like fire academy, policy academy, library storage space, yes, they could be out of Downtown, but HQs of Depts. belong Downtown---especially police.   And regarding your comment of "the nexus of our local interstate system", I'd say the junction of 71, 77, and 90 is a far better junction than driving 25 blocks to get to one highway entrance at E 55 and I-490.

 

 

 

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On 11/15/2019 at 2:22 PM, Pugu said:

What a STUPID location. A police headquarters--for ANY city--belongs in its Downtown.  3rd District was already moved from E20 all the way out past E 36 and now the main HQ is also leaving Downtown.  What $hitty leadership and decision-making this city has.

 

Can you give us tell us why?  City and County services like Government and County office do belong downtown as its a place with the best access via multiple modes of transportation and located in close proximity to other business a person may need to handle while in the area.

 

Police business doesn't need to be downtown to be functional for all citizens. In NYC, 1PP is located in downtown Manhattan, not convenient to the rest of the borough, those in The Bronx or Queens. Dallas police HQ is not located downtown, but about as far away from the core of downtown as the proposed CPD HQ.

 

I think the Sheriff and marshall's offices should move along with the CPD headquarters.

 

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^The other extreme is let everyone (or most) work from home as remote workers, like many tech firms do. There is a certain efficiency you get by aggregating workers together, esp where you need real time services--like pulling up a file, going to a police lab for results, dropping off lab samples, etc. That same agglomeration efficiency is not limited to one city department as the city is complex and must work across departments. Hence, for "HQ functions" it should be Downtown so that CPD can work with other city departments to have the operating efficiency.  

 

Regarding this piece, "Police business doesn't need to be downtown to be functional for all citizens".  Actually, a central location IS better than one on one part of town.  But again, we're ignoring the Districts.  When "citizens" need to go to the police PLACE and give a statement---its at their [kindof] local distrct and not at HQ. Most citizens don't need to go to Police HQ ever. and when they do, it should be centrally located for easy access from people from the west side as well as the east side.  Getting Downtown has pretty good transit access. People should have good access to the police HQ. THEY WONT AT  E. 75 St. try getting there in a reasonable time from West Park or even Mount Pleasant or Collinwood.

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22 minutes ago, Pugu said:

^The other extreme is let everyone (or most) work from home as remote workers, like many tech firms do. There is a certain efficiency you get by aggregating workers together, esp where you need real time services--like pulling up a file, going to a police lab for results, dropping off lab samples, etc. That same agglomeration efficiency is not limited to one city department as the city is complex and must work across departments. Hence, for "HQ functions" it should be Downtown so that CPD can work with other city departments to have the operating efficiency.  

 

Regarding this piece, "Police business doesn't need to be downtown to be functional for all citizens".  Actually, a central location IS better than one on one part of town.  But again, we're ignoring the Districts.  When "citizens" need to go to the police PLACE and give a statement---its at their [kindof] local distrct and not at HQ. Most citizens don't need to go to Police HQ ever. and when they do, it should be centrally located for easy access from people from the west side as well as the east side.  Getting Downtown has pretty good transit access. People should have good access to the police HQ. THEY WONT AT  E. 75 St. try getting there in a reasonable time from West Park or even Mount Pleasant or Collinwood.

Well that's the point of putting it on the OC right? Currently, yes, you are 100% right. But the OC will make it a lot quicker to get there from all those places. It may take a bit longer from Collinwood though, since currently you can take 90 right down to West 3rd.

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3 minutes ago, Mov2Ohio said:

Well that's the point of putting it on the OC right? Currently, yes, you are 100% right. But the OC will make it a lot quicker to get there from all those places. It may take a bit longer from Collinwood though, since currently you can take 90 right down to West 3rd.

 

I'm talking via transit in response to when people have to go to police HQ for something and that it should be easily located for citizens. E75 is not easy to get to even from most places on the east side. From Collinwood, it would probably take 3 buses/trains. At the horrible service levels of say, every 30 minutes, plus actual transport time, it could be a two-hour one way trip. But getting Downtown is a one-seat ride from almost anywhere in the city.

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1 hour ago, Pugu said:

 

I'm talking via transit in response to when people have to go to police HQ for something and that it should be easily located for citizens. E75 is not easy to get to even from most places on the east side. From Collinwood, it would probably take 3 buses/trains. At the horrible service levels of say, every 30 minutes, plus actual transport time, it could be a two-hour one way trip. But getting Downtown is a one-seat ride from almost anywhere in the city.

 

OK, then let's extend the Red Line to Euclid via Collinwood like RTA planned. 🙂 

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17 minutes ago, skiwest said:

So this location is the just mayor's recommendation.  It is not necessarily a done deal is it?


Council has to sign off, but they’ve been Frank’s rubber stamp for a while now.

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40 minutes ago, Enginerd said:

@KFM44107 how much academy presence is there in cleveland now? Is it in addition to the highway patrol academy training?

We have always had our own academy. Because of the number of classes they have been putting through they were sending people down to the highway patrol and TriC as well. I can tell you that we will no longer be sending classes down to Columbus, but this next class will be a Tri C, and the class that just graduated was at Tri C. Basically those classes go to Tri C to complete all the OPOTA (state mandated classes) and then they come back up to Cleveland to take the extra Cleveland specific training. My class is doing it all in Cleveland at our own academy. 

 

The academy staff, like every other department, is understaffed. It's a catch 22. We need more people but we don't have enough people to train all the new people. And as soon as a class graduates to fill the streets, an equal amount of officers retire. Like 60 percent of the force is within a few years of retiring. 

 

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16 hours ago, KFM44107 said:

We have always had our own academy. Because of the number of classes they have been putting through they were sending people down to the highway patrol and TriC as well. I can tell you that we will no longer be sending classes down to Columbus, but this next class will be a Tri C, and the class that just graduated was at Tri C. Basically those classes go to Tri C to complete all the OPOTA (state mandated classes) and then they come back up to Cleveland to take the extra Cleveland specific training. My class is doing it all in Cleveland at our own academy. 

 

The academy staff, like every other department, is understaffed. It's a catch 22. We need more people but we don't have enough people to train all the new people. And as soon as a class graduates to fill the streets, an equal amount of officers retire. Like 60 percent of the force is within a few years of retiring. 

 

If the city was smart...yes, I actually said that...they would consider a new fire training academy as well.  That would open up land to realign dead mans curve and get rid of an undersized antiquated academy as well.  The FD had to send their arson investigators to Columbus as well when that was going on, and it was the main reason I decided not to explore a different job description.   I believe the reason the CPD recruits had to go to OHP for training wasn't because of numbers, but rather the investigation by the Feds.  CPD sent all new recruits to Columbus until they were again approved, which is why I chose against the arson unit.  

As much as the city and the training staff from CPD and CFD don't want to hear this, Tri-C has the best facility around.  As far as training goes, Cleveland should use Tri-C and their facilities.  Cleveland could staff the training classes with their own personnel in order to teach Cleveland SOP's/G.O.'s (for police and fire) and not have to worry about spending money on training facilities.  I'm sure there could be a finance package that would benefit both the city and Tri-C that could make this happen.

As far as an HQ, I see nothing wrong with new site.  They should, however, still have a good presence downtown, maybe by utilizing the facility on Payne Ave more.

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On 11/15/2019 at 2:22 PM, Pugu said:

What a STUPID location. A police headquarters--for ANY city--belongs in its Downtown.  3rd District was already moved from E20 all the way out past E 36 and now the main HQ is also leaving Downtown.  What $hitty leadership and decision-making this city has.

 

I just noticed--I got TEN thumbsdown for this comment and zero any other icons. I then in 3-4 following posts, responding to different folks, explained why it should be downtown. But the 10 to 0 ratio is interesting---so I must ask why, oh why is E 75 Street, which is not easily transit accessible EXCEPT from downtown and maybe one or two other lines, and not walking distance to other city departments a good idea?  Keep mind zone cars don't need parking at the HQ wherever it is located, and the Academy itself could be on E. 75 or anywhere in the city. But why in the world is E. 75 Street a better location than Downtown? (And trying copy Chicago or Dallas is not a wise answer as we are certainly a better city than Dallas, and there's no reason to follow Chicago or any other city for that matter if the main idea does not make sense.)

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Does the CPD still maintain its horse stables off of the Shoreway?  My Dad, a former city employee, used to take me to the stables to see the horses as a kid.

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24 minutes ago, Frmr CLEder said:

Does the CPD still maintain its horse stables off of the Shoreway?  My Dad, a former city employee, used to take me to the stables to see the horses as a kid.

 

Yes

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17 hours ago, Pugu said:

 

But why in the world is E. 75 Street a better location than Downtown?

 

On 11/17/2019 at 12:14 PM, Pugu said:

There is a certain efficiency you get by aggregating workers together, esp where you need real time services--like pulling up a file, going to a police lab for results, dropping off lab samples, etc. That same agglomeration efficiency is not limited to one city department as the city is complex and must work across departments. Hence, for "HQ functions" it should be Downtown so that CPD can work with other city departments to have the operating efficiency.  

 

. . . . When "citizens" need to go to the police PLACE and give a statement---its at their [kindof] local distrct and not at HQ.

 

I'm not sure I understand your point, but I'm trying. 

 

Keep in mind that the "lack of access" on E. 75th that you're complaining about will improve by the time this happens.  The rapid station is already nearby and may be renovated in the near future.  The Opportunity Corridor will be complete, improving highway access and will probably bring improved bus service as well.  So it seems premature to say that transit will be bad there; and there are reasons to be optimistic that it could be better than the current location.

 

You seem to be saying that there is efficiency in aggregating workers, such that it is good to consolidate labs and training and vehicle maintenance (support services) in one location, but that "HQ" needs to be downtown so that those same workers can be closer to other city departments  (Or are you saying that all police department workers need to be close to other city department workers?)  Would there be an advantage to having all city workers in one building?  (I can think of several disadvantages.)

 

I can see why some police functions (like a training facility) need more space than is readily available downtown, but I don't understand what the "HQ functions" are that benefit from being in physical proximity to other city departments.  As you said, ordinary citizens generally don't need to go to HQ.  Most of my business is by phone, email, and video conference -- and government is usually trailing business so that is likely in the future.  Can you give some further examples where different police functions benefit from being really close to other city departments? 

 

How spread out are the other city departments?  How far away from City Hall are they?  How far away from City Hall would it be reasonable to locate the police HQ?

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On 11/20/2019 at 2:11 PM, Foraker said:

 

 

I'm not sure I understand your point, but I'm trying. 

 

Keep in mind that the "lack of access" on E. 75th that you're complaining about will improve by the time this happens.  The rapid station is already nearby and may be renovated in the near future.  The Opportunity Corridor will be complete, improving highway access and will probably bring improved bus service as well.  So it seems premature to say that transit will be bad there; and there are reasons to be optimistic that it could be better than the current location.

 

You seem to be saying that there is efficiency in aggregating workers, such that it is good to consolidate labs and training and vehicle maintenance (support services) in one location, but that "HQ" needs to be downtown so that those same workers can be closer to other city departments  (Or are you saying that all police department workers need to be close to other city department workers?)  Would there be an advantage to having all city workers in one building?  (I can think of several disadvantages.)

 

I can see why some police functions (like a training facility) need more space than is readily available downtown, but I don't understand what the "HQ functions" are that benefit from being in physical proximity to other city departments.  As you said, ordinary citizens generally don't need to go to HQ.  Most of my business is by phone, email, and video conference -- and government is usually trailing business so that is likely in the future.  Can you give some further examples where different police functions benefit from being really close to other city departments? 

 

How spread out are the other city departments?  How far away from City Hall are they?  How far away from City Hall would it be reasonable to locate the police HQ?

As of right now, outside of the districts and some specialized units like Hopkins, mounted Patrol, and some staff at Burke most specialized units are either at HQ or at public safety central (the old third). This new HQ would unify them.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if they left a significant special presence downtown. Like a large substation, if you will. 

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