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Cleveland: Downtown: The Lumen (Playhouse Square Tower)

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On 5/24/2019 at 10:29 AM, CLE_Millennial said:

The Hanna building is almost exactly the half-way mark.

 

Hanna building = 194ft

The Lumen = 396ft

 

It's going to dwarf the surrounding buildings.

Exactly what I DO like about it. 

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5 hours ago, Terdolph said:

Exactly what I don't like about it.

im starting to think this is a troll account..  i keep waiting for Aston Kutcher to jump and say we are being punked....  

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17 hours ago, G00pie said:

im starting to think this is a troll account..  i keep waiting for Aston Kutcher to jump and say we are being punked....  

Please.

 

A diversity of opinions is a good thing.

 

Humor is even better!

Edited by Terdolph
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2 hours ago, Terdolph said:

Please.

 

A diversity of opinions is a good thing.

 

Humor is even better!

 

I'm not quite sure why a high rise complex is inappropriate for an urban core/Downtown... Especially one that is rapidly growing, and has room to grow. Diversity in building heights, and styles is normal within older cities. There is not many places in the core of the CBD to build up except theWHD, which seems hopeless in the current moment of development. Even in the more central area, parking lots are surrounded by shorter, historic building. The Hippodome site, which is in pre-development, borders the 9 story 668 apartment complex (and others). A 20-story building there would be a lot taller than some neighboring buildings. But it's better than a parking lot, and anything shorter wouldn't be financially feasible. Lumen is a great addition to Downtown, and shows that development is expanding outward - which is good. 

Edited by imjustinjk
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I don't understand why the WHD is undevelopable.  I have read all the threads about it and I still don't understand.  This project, as it is now would be better on the E 12th residential corridor.

 

Why is that controversial?

 

And moreover, why all the hostility and snarkyness?

 

I had forgotten how unpleasant this forum, and some of the people here can be.

Edited by Terdolph
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2 hours ago, Terdolph said:

I don't understand why the WHD is undevelopable.  I have read all the threads about it and I still don't understand.  This project, as it is now would be better on the E 12th residential corridor.

 

Why is that controversial?

 

And moreover, why all the hostility and snarkyness?

 

I had forgotten how unpleasant this forum, and some of the people here can be.

 

It’s not unpleasant for people to point out to you that a city is exactly the place for tall buildings and that it is natural for buildings to have different heights and to sometimes block the views of other buildings (as you complained in the NuCLEus thread)

 

Some buildings in every city in the world are going to “dwarf other buildings” as you said upthread. That is what makes a city. 

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9 hours ago, Terdolph said:

I don't understand why the WHD is undevelopable.  I have read all the threads about it and I still don't understand.  This project, as it is now would be better on the E 12th residential corridor.

 

Why is that controversial?

 

And moreover, why all the hostility and snarkyness?

 

I had forgotten how unpleasant this forum, and some of the people here can be.

 

Yeah, imo opinion everything in East of W. 9th and West of E. 22nd is fair game for a high rise - and by fair game, I mean they should be encouraged. I understand your concern, but I just think it's not correctly applied. The size of the building, imo, is irrelevant - rather, it's all about how that building blends with the street and neighborhood at the street level. For instance, if a highrise were to be put at the intersection of W. 9th and St. Claire, in the surface lot to the SE, I would want the portion of the building at street level to have some sort of red brick element, that would ingratiate the surrounding buildings/vibe - the height wouldn't really matter imo. 

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9 hours ago, Terdolph said:

I don't understand why the WHD is undevelopable.  I have read all the threads about it and I still don't understand.  This project, as it is now would be better on the E 12th residential corridor.

 

Why is that controversial?

 

And moreover, why all the hostility and snarkyness?

 

I had forgotten how unpleasant this forum, and some of the people here can be.

Cities have buildings of various heights...that is what makes them interesting.  but you keep calling East 12 the residential corridor....Its not.  That was from the failed "urban renewal" plan  from the 70's.  Euclid is the actual residential corridor now.  there will be almost 3000 apartments on or directly off of Euclid between Tower city  and CSU.  Its the most walkable and active street in DT Cleveland.  Lumen is in the perfect spot

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12 hours ago, Terdolph said:

I don't understand why the WHD is undevelopable.  I have read all the threads about it and I still don't understand.  This project, as it is now would be better on the E 12th residential corridor.

 

Why is that controversial?

 

And moreover, why all the hostility and snarkyness?

 

I had forgotten how unpleasant this forum, and some of the people here can be.

 

I wasn't trying to be hostile or snarky. However, as mentioned by others, Euclid is Downtown's main residential corridor. There's only 2 apartments on E. 12th, Sphere and Reserve Square. Statler is on Euclid, Seasons at Perk is on Chester, and The Avenue is on St. Clair. There's only 1 available parking lot on E. 12th, which in my opinion is better suited for an office building than residential. Euclid Avenue has vastly more residential buildings, and has been the largest focus of residential development. After May Co, JHB, and 925 are redeveloped there isn't really anything on Euclid [Downtown] remaining to redevelop. This leaves the Hippodrome site (possibly being developed by City Club Apartments out of Michigan), Union Club parking lot, and the former site where Lumen is now being built. In a few years, when all of these developments finish, Euclid will be end-to-end residential from Public Square to the Innerbelt. Beyond that, residential developments extend into and throughout MidTown all the way to UC.

 

The Lumen is really the pinnacle of progress for Playhouse Square Theater District, which was on the verge of being demolished. Saying that the Lumen building is out of place, and shouldn't be there undermines the decades of hard work that countless people have performed to save, and revitalize one of Cleveland's best assets. The Playhouse Square Organization being able to control the real estate within their area, and being able to leverage this development to keep the organization financially solvent is important in the long term success of the theater district. They also own the Hanna Building, Crowne Plaza, and others, which further provide financial viability for the organization and their programming. Saying the building could have went somewhere else just doesn't make sense because of the history, and the objectives for the organization who had site control over the parking lot. The Playhouse Square Organization doesn't have a vested interest in E. 12th, WHD, etc.

 

If you haven't watched it before, check out the documentary about saving Playhouse Square.

 

Also, regarding WHD, its not undevelopable. It makes a lot of sense for development, but the Asher's are just sitting on their parking lots with no intent to develop anything. It's really the most obvious next area of Downtown development, but that doesn't negate Lumen's validity. 

Edited by imjustinjk
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On 5/24/2019 at 10:29 AM, CLE_Millennial said:

The Hanna building is almost exactly the half-way mark.

 

Hanna building = 194ft

The Lumen = 396ft

 

It's going to dwarf the surrounding buildings.

It wont dwarf the surrounding buildings. You have the Keith at 272' and Rhodes Tower at 363' nearby.

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On 5/24/2019 at 5:43 PM, Terdolph said:

I hope that the E 12th residential corridor gets completed.

 

It has been 40 years since the Chesterfield and Park Center were completed.

I hope so too but its not a high priority imo. After Euclid gets built up Prospect should be next. Huron is important because it connects the Theater District  with the Gateway District. And of course 9th street because its had direct access to the lakefront and its museums. E.12th is a relatively "sterile" thoroughfare north of Perk Plaza that is more suitable for office buildings. Its very boring street with very little foot traffic. Pedestrians want to feel safe a night. The busiest intersection in Cleveland is not Euclid and 9th but rather 9th and Prospect.  A traffic cop is needed during rush hour and ball games. That's the place that should be built up next.

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On 5/24/2019 at 5:43 PM, Terdolph said:

I hope that the E 12th residential corridor gets completed.

 

It has been 40 years since the Chesterfield and Park Center were completed.

It's even worse, Chesterfield is 50+ years and Park Center is about 46 or so years.

 

It would be great if the E 12th Street residential corridor gets completed.

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^ That Avenue plan (Zaremba?) would’ve been nice. The one building they did manage to finish sure looks lonely over there. 

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1 hour ago, surfohio said:

^ That Avenue plan (Zaremba?) would’ve been nice. The one building they did manage to finish sure looks lonely over there. 

KJP: Does anyone know if there is anything in the works for an Avenue District Tower Phase 2 as originally proposed?

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3 minutes ago, simplythis said:

KJP: Does anyone know if there is anything in the works for an Avenue District Tower Phase 2 as originally proposed?

 

We'll see...

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"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" -- Lady Liberty

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1 hour ago, Mildtraumatic said:

Would it have been too hard to just add 4 feet making it 400 feet? The only complaint I can think of with The Lumen.🤔

Maybe they can move the chandelier up there? It would sure speak to the name Lumen!

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The guys across the way responded to our post-it sign today.  There was dancing and waving involved, which unfortunately I didn't get on camera.

20190606_145717.jpg

20190606_145909.jpg

20190606_145915.jpg

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3 hours ago, marty15 said:

From The Statler roof patio.

DDF7E510-CCBE-4BE8-BF02-5EB67EA35452.jpeg

Very nice shot! Can you get one at night?

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On 6/5/2019 at 12:53 AM, jeremyck01 said:

 

It’s not unpleasant for people to point out to you that a city is exactly the place for tall buildings and that it is natural for buildings to have different heights and to sometimes block the views of other buildings (as you complained in the NuCLEus thread)

 

Some buildings in every city in the world are going to “dwarf other buildings” as you said upthread. That is what makes a city. 

There are some exceptions like Washington D.C. (minus the Washington Monument) or Paris ( minus the Eiffel Tower) where tall buildings are entirely inappropriate. What counts most is what its does on a street level. I think University Circle  should also avoid tall buildings, mid-rise is okay. But downtown Cleveland I'm all for it. 

 

On 

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2 hours ago, shack said:

There are some exceptions like Washington D.C. (minus the Washington Monument) or Paris ( minus the Eiffel Tower) where tall buildings are entirely inappropriate. What counts most is what its does on a street level. I think University Circle  should also avoid tall buildings, mid-rise is okay. But downtown Cleveland I'm all for it. 

 

On 


Paris has quite a few tall buildings, just not built right up against Eiffel. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tallest_buildings_and_structures_in_the_Paris_region

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2 hours ago, shack said:

There are some exceptions like Washington D.C. (minus the Washington Monument) or Paris ( minus the Eiffel Tower) where tall buildings are entirely inappropriate. What counts most is what its does on a street level. I think University Circle  should also avoid tall buildings, mid-rise is okay. But downtown Cleveland I'm all for it. 

 

On 

Have you personally been to Paris?  I have two words, "La Defense'.  

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2 hours ago, MyTwoSense said:

Have you personally been to Paris?  I have two words, "La Defense'.  

No I haven't. I travel mostly via google Earth these days that suits me just fine. La Defense is actually a business district outside the city limits of Paris proper. Nice try! Often times with historic cities the business or financial district is decoupled from its city center. Arlington has taller buildings than DC due to its height restrictions. I'm veering way off topic but I had to respond. My apologies.

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That glass is looking like the right amount of reflective:clear ratio. Too many buildings lately have super reflective glass which, unless you're buying high quality glass, ends up looking super cheap because the reflections are wavy and wonky as a result of the cheapness. This is looking like it's going to turn out great!

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5 hours ago, mack34 said:

Starting to pour 16th floor today

 

Wow i was just watching the live camera early this morning and they were still putting down the tubing/pipes (not sure of the Exact name).

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^ The concrete pour has been the same day they install the conduit, every floor. So if you see the piping being installed during the day, that means the pour will be later in the afternoon.

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22 hours ago, jmicha said:

That glass is looking like the right amount of reflective:clear ratio. Too many buildings lately have super reflective glass which, unless you're buying high quality glass, ends up looking super cheap because the reflections are wavy and wonky as a result of the cheapness. This is looking like it's going to turn out great!

The former Eaton building has those warped reflective dimples for comparison.

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On 6/8/2019 at 7:37 AM, mack34 said:

More glass..... it’s gonna look awesome

CE48366E-FE38-4EA3-97B5-CE6CDB340466.jpeg

Especially from a "dirt lot" perspective!

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1 hour ago, shack said:

The former Eaton building has those warped reflective dimples for comparison.

 

Apples and oranges to me; one is not necessarily a low-quality version of the other. I like them both depending on the rest of the building.


There's nothing wrong with optimism, as long as you don't get your hopes up.

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