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All that stuff about these people are culturally different than us, they're not going to fit in, they don't assimilate, they don't want to learn the langauge, they're forming enclaves, the WASP Americans of 100 years ago said all that same stuff about Catholic immigrants pretty much verbatim back in the day. I do believe assimilation is important, I think we have to be one country but I haven't seen anything to convince me that it doesn't happen after a generation or two, for any group.

 

Seems red america and blue america are really having a much tougher time assimilating with each other than any immigrants are.

 

I keep a framed "No Irish Need Apply" poster in my office to remind me everyday of the struggle my grandparents endured for me to be afforded the opportunities I am.

ds.thumb.jpg.c2ca9d4443fa2d662f63e2bddd62d1ac.jpg

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The argument as I understand it is that CA is only great because they don't enforce immigration.  Could you further opine on that or clarify it.

 

The way I understand it is they are "growing" for that reason.  The "great" part is quite debatable.

 

So your assertion is that illegal immigration is merely helping them grow.  And that this growth along with all of the other metrics discussed earlier are improving because why?

 

It's almost like sanctuary policies and the presence of illegal immigrants doesn't hurt the state at all.

The population is growing.  What it's doing to the economy is at best debatable.  The fact that they are forming separatist communities often incompatable with our culture can be seen as a negative as well.

 

The separatist movement is very fringe.  And it probably wouldn't exist if California wasn't regularly maligned as barely being a part of "Real America".

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He does have a valid point, Trump does want to cut the number of people legally allowed into this country in half.

 

Yes, the far right not only has a problem with illegal immigrants but LEGAL immigrants as well.  It's quite sad.

 

They are quite fine with Norwegian immigrants.  It's the one's from Africa that they have issues with.  Don't call them racist though because you are just falling into their trap.

 

Well I certainly don't speak for him.  IMO he only wants immigrants likely to buy his BS.

 

Norwegian immigrants do well and so do African immigrants from English speaking nations.  That's the kind we should want.  People who are likely to assmilate.  Ideally not to many of any given type, but those who already think like we do.

 

Big clumps of people who don't speak our language, have no interest in learning it, and who have an entirely different cultural mindset?  Not so much.    Unscreened individuals?  Absolutely not.

 

All immigrant groups, regardless of origin, assimilate at roughly the same rates, though I'm sure Canadians, the British and Australians do so the fastest given that they are most similar to Americans. But there is virtually no difference between any of the others.  It's a conservative myth that masses of immigrants come to the US and don't bother to learn or adapt. 

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Norwegian immigrants do well and so do African immigrants from English speaking nations.  That's the kind we should want.  People who are likely to assmilate.  Ideally not to many of any given type, but those who already think like we do.

 

Big clumps of people who don't speak our language, have no interest in learning it, and who have an entirely different cultural mindset?  Not so much.    Unscreened individuals?  Absolutely not.[/color]

 

Just highlighting the racism here.  It's disgusting.

 

Where's the racism here? Against Norwegians? Africans? As far as I know the racial makeup of those two groups couldn't be more radically different. The rest is about cultural assimilation. Why shouldn't we expect immigrants to assimilate and adopt American cultural norms? Why would anyone want to move here if they were unwilling or opposed to doing so?

 

You (or E Rocc) want Africans who speak our language and think like us and will assimilate to our culture (I thought part of what makes America great is you can live however you want, right?  Land of the Free and all...) while placing none of those requirements on Norwegians.

 

It's sad and pathetic how intolerant those on the right are of people who speak a different language, practice a different faith, or live a different lifestyle than them.

 

You really go out of your way to deliberately distort what someone says. Who's intolerant of anyone who speaks a different language? It's just that an immigrant who already speaks English will have an easier time. But it's crucial for everyone else to learn English as quickly as possible in order to advance. Why would you take exception to that? While we have no official language, it's obvious that English is the de facto "official" language of the US, and the faster someone masters it, the faster they get ahead and are able enjoy and participate in everything we have to offer. Duh! If anything it's racist of you to be okay with people who will not learn English, denying them the greater opportunities that would be available if they did.

 

EVD you are the only one distorting anything here.  And if you can't read the original comment in plain English then maybe you need some ESL help so that you can fully assimilate.

 

so you really don't think we as Americans have (or should have) shared cultural values? To hell with the Constitution, our system of government, etc, etc? No wonder we've become so balkanized as a nation (although fortunately we still have immigrants--of all races, backgrounds and cultures--who believe in those values and are regularly sworn in as American citizens). I'm guessing you're very young (and yes, I've already said many times I'm old!), but if this is the kind of junk that's being taught in schools these days I see very little future left for the nation. Sad. :(

 

What are the specific American cultural values that you think foreign immigrants do not and cannot share? 

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You state that Norwegians (who don't speak english) and Africans from English speaking countries do better.  Do you have any evidence of this statement or is it just your feeling?  Remember facts don't care about your feelings. 

 

Just an aside I had to look these facts up because I've never encountered anyone in Norway who does not speak English.

 

90% of Norwegians speak English (very well) as a second language.  7% of Americans do not speak English at all, and 20% of Americans do not speak English at home.

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You state that Norwegians (who don't speak english) and Africans from English speaking countries do better.  Do you have any evidence of this statement or is it just your feeling?  Remember facts don't care about your feelings. 

 

Just an aside I had to look these facts up because I've never encountered anyone in Norway who does not speak English.

 

90% of Norwegians speak English (very well) as a second language.  7% of Americans do not speak English at all, and 20% of Americans do not speak English at home.

 

Pop culture began the process and the 'net solidified it, English has become a sort of global language.  Refusing to even try to learn it while living here is certainly a sign of a separatist mindset.  But separatism doesn't have to be something people intend, especially when following "leaders".

 

We should probably move this to the immigration thread.

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My grandparents came here from Sicily and went to work immediately.  As such, they never gained a full grasp of English and were functionally illiterate in English.  They were not separatists at all.  They were proud Americans who did the best they could to raise an American family.

 

This is the American dream.

 

But did they encourage their kids to be that way?  I doubt it. 

 

Grandma went to work right away too but one thing she always came back to was how proud she was to learn it quickly and how important that was.

 

I'm not a purist on this.  I'm not against some degree of bilingual education (which happened 100 years ago in Catholic schools).  But English fluency needs to be a goal and a basic requirement, not optional.

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But did they encourage their kids to be that way?  I doubt it. 

 

Grandma went to work right away too but one thing she always came back to was how proud she was to learn it quickly and how important that was.

 

I'm not a purist on this.  I'm not against some degree of bilingual education (which happened 100 years ago in Catholic schools).  But English fluency needs to be a goal and a basic requirement, not optional.

 

Why do people get so worked up about immigrants not speaking perfectly fluent English?  I really don't understand this criticism and I really think it's simply a result of general animosity towards immigrants.  Of course people that move here as adults will have difficulty learning the language and will have deep, difficult to understand accents until the day they die.  I work with a woman that moved to the US 25+ years ago as an adult and still speaks very broken English with an incredibly thick Russian accent.  But she's also one of the top material scientists that I know.  And her children speak perfect English are culturally American in every way.

 

The fact that there is a large population that still wishes to become American citizens, work, and contribute to our culture is a sign of America's continuing greatness.  It really is.  The fact that many of these immigrants don't quickly grasp the language does not diminish this fact and does not contribute to some mythical cultural rot that conservatives seem to be so concerned about.  On the eve of St. Patrick's Day we should all note that many of the greatest cultural traditions in America are the direct result of immigration.  It's a shame that so many have forgotten this and now view immigration as a detriment to our society and culture.

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I honestly don't even know that I've met many immigrants who didn't speak English. One summer in college I did landscaping with a handful of Mexican guys and one of them didn't because he just came up for the summer each year, but the other guys translated for him. Then there were others in the kitchen when I worked in a few restaurants, they all spoke English, albeit some better than others.

 

Some people have a visceral, negative reaction to hearing different languages, or accents, in their presence. Just like I said yesterday, it's all the same stuff the wasps said about Italians and Polish and whoever 100 years ago, repackaged. History repeats itself, sadly now some of the descendants of those same Italians and Polish are getting into it.

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A bit of history you guys might enjoy, this is from the museum at Ellis Island. I have posted it before, like 3 years ago, so you may recognize, but it's one of my favorites.

 

HKNLgA2.jpg

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A bit of history you guys might enjoy, this is from the museum at Ellis Island. I have posted it before, like 3 years ago, so you may recognize, but it's one of my favorites.

 

HKNLgA2.jpg

 

I posted this one myself on my Facebook a couple times.

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people are convinced that a certain segment of immigrants is actively defying "american" life.  all studies and date on this subject show that is not true.  Today's immigrants learn English at the same rate and speed as past immigrants.  I thought liberal snowflakes were the ones that relied emotion to inform them.  This is just another are where the facts are ignored by those with an ax to grind again immigrants.

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A bit of history you guys might enjoy, this is from the museum at Ellis Island. I have posted it before, like 3 years ago, so you may recognize, but it's one of my favorites.

 

HKNLgA2.jpg

 

I posted this one myself on my Facebook a couple times.

 

So the irony is lost on you then?

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One American value is minding your own business. I kinda understand the concern for assimilation, but just look at the Amish. They hardly assimilate, you can barely understand half of them. They even take high paying jobs without fully participating in the economy. Who cares? If assimilation is your personal issue I suggest skipping immigrants and instead focus on weird religious groups or far out militia types.

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I would focus less on language and more on social mores.  There are traditions very different from ours, especially on gender issues, that have led to some culture clashes. 

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I would focus less on language and more on social mores.  There are traditions very different from ours, especially on gender issues, that have led to some culture clashes.

 

Aren't there differences on gender issues even among Americans?  We've debated them greatly on this forum.

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I've never met an affectionate chicken (and I have raised quite a few), but I still find this upsetting:

 

ICE HSI Texarkana arrests 120 people during illegal cockfighting event

 

https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/ice-hsi-texarkana-arrests-120-people-during-illegal-cockfighting-event

 

On March 17, 2018, U.S. Immigration and Custom Enforcement’s (ICE) Homeland Security Investigations (HSI) Texarkana worked jointly with the Sevier County Sheriff's Office, Arkansas State Police, Arkansas Fish and Wildlife, U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP)  – Air and Marine Operations and other state and local partners to execute a state search warrant involving an illegal cockfighting organization.

 

The search warrant was the culmination of an 18-month investigation. Based on previous investigative work, agents expected 30-40 individuals to attend the event and suspected a portion of those attendees to be illegal aliens. Upon execution of the state search warrant, agents encountered an overwhelming 134 people attending the event, 120 were taken into custody. Numerous people attempted to flee the scene on foot which made the assistance of CBP Air an integral part in apprehending suspects.

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An affectionate chicken?? WTF?


"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities."-Voltaire

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A bit of history you guys might enjoy, this is from the museum at Ellis Island. I have posted it before, like 3 years ago, so you may recognize, but it's one of my favorites.

 

HKNLgA2.jpg

 

I posted this one myself on my Facebook a couple times.

 

So the irony is lost on you then?

 

I've done a little research on the Americanization movement, and it was a short-lived, assimilationist movement concurrent with the Klan - which emphatically supported public education and English only, and the "normalcy" movement after WWI, promoted strongly by the American Legion. It wasn't a longstanding policy or even practice in the Midwest to have English-only education; there were hundreds upon hundreds of German-language schools in the Midwest before WWI.

 

Besides, there are plenty of Native American people who have a right to speak their language, and not English if they choose. English should never be an official language.

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A bit of history you guys might enjoy, this is from the museum at Ellis Island. I have posted it before, like 3 years ago, so you may recognize, but it's one of my favorites.

 

HKNLgA2.jpg

 

I posted this one myself on my Facebook a couple times.

 

So the irony is lost on you then?

 

I've done a little research on the Americanization movement, and it was a short-lived, assimilationist movement concurrent with the Klan - which emphatically supported public education and English only, and the "normalcy" movement after WWI, promoted strongly by the American Legion. It wasn't a longstanding policy or even practice in the Midwest to have English-only education; there were hundreds upon hundreds of German-language schools in the Midwest before WWI.

 

Besides, there are plenty of Native American people who have a right to speak their language, and not English if they choose. English should never be an official language.

 

আমি আপনার সাথে আর একমত হতে পারিনি। অবশ্যই, কিভাবে একটি সাধারণ ভাষা ছাড়া আমরা একটি সাধারণ রাজনৈতিক ব্যবস্থা থাকতে পারে? ওহ ভাল, আমি নিশ্চিত যে এটি সব কাজ করবে। ভাষা কানাডায় রাজনীতির মতো হবে না!

 

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Trump's call to militarize border comes as illegal crossings last year were lowest since 1971

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-calls-military-secure-us-mexico-border-context/

 

Trump knows that if he just keeps wagging the dog for his base, they'll never leave his side.  They're too dumb and morally compromised to know any better.

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Yup. Border crossing ARRESTS are at a 46-year low. That means one of two things:

 

1)  Trump is doing the laziest job in 46 years of catching people who cross illegally; or

 

2)  We never needed Trump's stupid, expensive, gimmick of a wall in the first place.

 

Take your pick, Trumpies. https://t.co/ORPByhPulF


"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities."-Voltaire

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3. America has become more openly hostile to legal (and especially illegal) immigrants the last 18 months, and Mexican/Central Americans are finding the risk less and less rewarding. How many Jews are moving to Eastern Europe... or France for that matter these days.

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Yup. Border crossing ARRESTS are at a 46-year low. That means one of two things:

 

1)  Trump is doing the laziest job in 46 years of catching people who cross illegally; or

 

2)  We never needed Trump's stupid, expensive, gimmick of a wall in the first place.

 

Take your pick, Trumpies. https://t.co/ORPByhPulF

 

Yeah, his whole logic process fails spectacularly with this.  Undocumented immigration was falling for years before Trump became president, especially those from Mexico.  It's actually been negative from there to the tune that the undocumented Mexican population in the US has been estimated to have fallen by a few million since the mid-2000s.  Trump claims to be excellent on stopping those people from entering the country, yet at the same time treats the situation as an escalating threat to national security.  It literally cannot be both.

 

I also agree with TB in that the US has gained a decidedly much more negative reputation against immigration in general since Trump arrived, regardless of status.  What an embarrassment for a nation that once prided itself over its immigration roots, and what a moral and humanitarian disaster.

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  Trump claims to be excellent on stopping those people from entering the country, yet at the same time treats the situation as an escalating threat to national security.  It literally cannot be both.

 

This one always gets a Trumpkin if you ask them to explain it. 

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This @ABC News Special report is disturbing on so many levels...

 

"Mexican teenager dies after drinking liquid meth in front of smiling US Border Patrol Officers"

 

I've watched the report in the video a few times. So sad and disturbing.

 

https://t.co/D4qSQZqmZB


"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities."-Voltaire

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Ohio's 513,592 immigrants sustain state's population, economy: CSU report

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2018/04/ohios_513592_immigrants_sustai.html

 

EDIT: "In comparison, "only 26.7 percent of native-born Ohioans have a four-year degree or higher," and that 15.4 percentage-point gap between the two groups is the widest divide in the nation."


"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities."-Voltaire

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These a-holes are out of control. Hello...Congress??

 

ICE held American citizen Davino Watson in detention for 1273 days.

Even after ICE realized the error, they refused to release him.

How even U.S. citizens can be powerless against ICE.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-citizens-ice-20180427-htmlstory.html


"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities."-Voltaire

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Humanity takes precedence over immoral laws....

 

Undocumented father of four takes sanctuary inside Pilgrim Congregational Church

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2018/05/undocumented_father_of_four_takes_sanctuary_inside_pilgrim_congregational_church.html


"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities."-Voltaire

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Another grandmother in her late 60s being deported. Where are these "bad dudes" and gang members Trump was talking about deporting? It seems to only be families, the elderly, wives of our soldiers, etc. Easy to find them.

 

GOP: Hates families, hates the elderly, hates our troops.


"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities."-Voltaire

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Trump tells 57,000 Hondurans who’ve lived in the US for 20 years to get out

It’s yet another move that will turn people who are in the US legally into unauthorized immigrants.

https://www.vox.com/2018/5/4/17320352/tps-honduras-cancel-trump-temporary-protected-status


"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities."-Voltaire

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^ Seems like a non story. ICE had an arrest warrant for the guy, and they arrested him. I don't think they have an obligation to show a suspect the warrant prior to apprehending them, especially when the suspect is a known violent offender and flight risk. This guy has been deported multiple times and has illegally entered the United States 16 times.

 

“ICE legally obtained and properly executed a Federal criminal arrest warrant issued by the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of California,” the organization told Newsweek in a statement. “The suspect fled from the scene and hid inside his house, forcing the officers to obtain a criminal arrest warrant for illegally re-entering the United States. The warrant was issued by a federal judge and Mr. Alonso-Hernandez was taken into custody at his residence several hours later.”

 

...Brianna Alonso, the suspect’s wife, told the television station that she was shown the warrant after her husband was in custody.

 

http://www.newsweek.com/ice-breaking-home-well-show-you-warrant-when-were-done-919134

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