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Trump is bashing California and Gov. Brown. California's biggest problem is that it is being held back by being in the United States...

 

- 6th largest economy in the world.

 

- Continually outpaces the U.S. in job growth.

 

- Turned a 2010 deficit into a record surplus.

 

- Leads the national economy from personal income to high-wage jobs and more.

 

https://t.co/hF1wufJ9L0

 

I agree with you, Trump's attacks on Brown were largely baseless and unfair. But, there is a MASSIVE exodus from some areas of California right now due to the cost of living there. That is an issue that needs to be fixed - and, to be fair, isn't entirely on Gov. Brown either.

 

California is not losing people.  It has grown by 2.282 million people since 2010, which is 2nd only to Texas.  When people talk about California losing people, they are exclusively talking about domestic migration, where it's lost about 560,000 since 2010.  However, international migration more than makes up for it so that net migration has been more than half a million, the 3rd highest of any state.  It also has the #1 natural growth total of any state.  So when people say the state is having some "massive exodus", they need to be very careful with that.  28 states lose population domestically, including Ohio.  Most of them are not expensive or overtly liberal states.  Simply put, if people want to suggest that California is doing poorly, population isn't really a very good argument for that.

 

 

Many of the Californian's leaving are people like my Uncle, who ran a successful business, sold it and is now facing the new owners terminating his consulting contract.  He wants to cash out of his house and move someplace cheaper, where he can get a mid level sales job to cover his healthcare instead of retiring early.  He doesn't hate California, but feels he'd be stupid to sit on the house at this point in his life. 

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America is not alone in tightening immigration laws and enacting travel restrictions.

 

EU presses tough migration stance with more Turkey money, stricter visa rules

 

BRUSSELS (Reuters) - The European Union on Wednesday said it would chip in another three billion euros ($3.7 billion) for Syrian refugees in Turkey, and restrict travel for countries refusing to take back their citizens who fail to obtain asylum in Europe.

 

 

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America is not alone in tightening immigration laws and enacting travel restrictions.

 

EU presses tough migration stance with more Turkey money, stricter visa rules

 

BRUSSELS (Reuters) - The European Union on Wednesday said it would chip in another three billion euros ($3.7 billion) for Syrian refugees in Turkey, and restrict travel for countries refusing to take back their citizens who fail to obtain asylum in Europe.

 

it's definitely proof that we don't have a monopoly on stupid ideas.

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However, international migration more than makes up for it...

 

For now...

 

sub-buzz-27779-1520977196-7.jpg

 

Undocumented immigrants aren’t counted by the Census, so try harder.  And even with no immigrants, California would still have one of the largest state growth totals.

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Undocumented immigrants aren’t counted by the Census, so try harder.  And even with no immigrants, California would still have one of the largest state growth totals.

 

Jon, you're using facts and data.  This makes no sense and is a losing strategy.

 

Ram has a meme.


Very Stable Genius

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Trump is bashing California and Gov. Brown. California's biggest problem is that it is being held back by being in the United States...

 

- 6th largest economy in the world.

 

- Continually outpaces the U.S. in job growth.

 

- Turned a 2010 deficit into a record surplus.

 

- Leads the national economy from personal income to high-wage jobs and more.

 

https://t.co/hF1wufJ9L0

 

I agree with you, Trump's attacks on Brown were largely baseless and unfair. But, there is a MASSIVE exodus from some areas of California right now due to the cost of living there. That is an issue that needs to be fixed - and, to be fair, isn't entirely on Gov. Brown either.

 

California is not losing people.  It has grown by 2.282 million people since 2010, which is 2nd only to Texas.  When people talk about California losing people, they are exclusively talking about domestic migration, where it's lost about 560,000 since 2010.  However, international migration more than makes up for it so that net migration has been more than half a million, the 3rd highest of any state.  It also has the #1 natural growth total of any state.  So when people say the state is having some "massive exodus", they need to be very careful with that.  28 states lose population domestically, including Ohio.  Most of them are not expensive or overtly liberal states.  Simply put, if people want to suggest that California is doing poorly, population isn't really a very good argument for that.

 

 

They are growing because they choose not to enforce the immigration laws, so their growth is almost by definition detrimental to the rest of the nation.

 

You and Ram must shop at the same place for your talking points.  A little more than a million immigrants came to California since 2010, a large number not from Latin America.  It’s natural growth, however, added more than 1.7 million. 

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He does have a valid point, Trump does want to cut the number of people legally allowed into this country in half.

 

Yes, the far right not only has a problem with illegal immigrants but LEGAL immigrants as well.  It's quite sad.


Very Stable Genius

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He does have a valid point, Trump does want to cut the number of people legally allowed into this country in half.

 

Yes, the far right not only has a problem with illegal immigrants but LEGAL immigrants as well.  It's quite sad.

 

They are quite fine with Norwegian immigrants.  It's the one's from Africa that they have issues with.  Don't call them racist though because you are just falling into their trap.

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They are quite fine with Norwegian immigrants.  It's the one's from Africa that they have issues with.  Don't call them racist though because you are just falling into their trap.

 

Favoring Norwegians over people from "sh!thole nations" falls in line with a Nordicist conception of the Aryan race.


"Nearly every problem that we have in the USA -- unaffordable health care, prison overpopulation, hyper militarization, climate change, racism, gun violence, poverty, poor education, urban sprawl and others -- cannot be positively addressed because bribery and conflicts of interest are legal under campaign finance laws which protect the uber-wealthy and the narrow self-interests who grossly benefit from our afflictions."

 

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Undocumented immigrants aren’t counted by the Census, so try harder.  And even with no immigrants, California would still have one of the largest state growth totals.

 

Jon, you're using facts and data.  This makes no sense and is a losing strategy.

 

Ram has a meme.

 

He's using alternative facts:

 

Are undocumented residents (aliens) in the 50 states included in the apportionment population counts? 

 

Yes, all people (citizens and noncitizens) with a usual residence in the 50 states are to be included in the census and thus in the apportionment counts.

 

https://www.census.gov/population/apportionment/about/faq.html#Q16

 

And that's not a meme, it's just a photo.

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Undocumented immigrants aren’t counted by the Census, so try harder.  And even with no immigrants, California would still have one of the largest state growth totals.

 

Jon, you're using facts and data.  This makes no sense and is a losing strategy.

 

Ram has a meme.

 

He's using alternative facts:

 

Are undocumented residents (aliens) in the 50 states included in the apportionment population counts? 

 

Yes, all people (citizens and noncitizens) with a usual residence in the 50 states are to be included in the census and thus in the apportionment counts.

 

https://www.census.gov/population/apportionment/about/faq.html#Q16

 

And that's not a meme, it's just a photo.

 

Changing the goal posts.  The Census does not count undocumented immigrants for obvious reasons.  Estimating them for purposes of Congressional apportionment is not the same thing.

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Trump is bashing California and Gov. Brown. California's biggest problem is that it is being held back by being in the United States...

 

- 6th largest economy in the world.

 

- Continually outpaces the U.S. in job growth.

 

- Turned a 2010 deficit into a record surplus.

 

- Leads the national economy from personal income to high-wage jobs and more.

 

https://t.co/hF1wufJ9L0

 

I agree with you, Trump's attacks on Brown were largely baseless and unfair. But, there is a MASSIVE exodus from some areas of California right now due to the cost of living there. That is an issue that needs to be fixed - and, to be fair, isn't entirely on Gov. Brown either.

 

California is not losing people.  It has grown by 2.282 million people since 2010, which is 2nd only to Texas.  When people talk about California losing people, they are exclusively talking about domestic migration, where it's lost about 560,000 since 2010.  However, international migration more than makes up for it so that net migration has been more than half a million, the 3rd highest of any state.  It also has the #1 natural growth total of any state.  So when people say the state is having some "massive exodus", they need to be very careful with that.  28 states lose population domestically, including Ohio.  Most of them are not expensive or overtly liberal states.  Simply put, if people want to suggest that California is doing poorly, population isn't really a very good argument for that.

 

 

They are growing because they choose not to enforce the immigration laws, so their growth is almost by definition detrimental to the rest of the nation.

 

Immigration is a federal issue. Its not the place for cities and states to enforce it.

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Changing the goal posts.  The Census does not count undocumented immigrants for obvious reasons.  Estimating them for purposes of Congressional apportionment is not the same thing.

 

Yes, all people (citizens and noncitizens) with a usual residence in the 50 states are to be included in the census and thus in the apportionment counts.

 

This quote is taken from census.gov and states that illegal immigrants (or noncitizens if you prefer) are included in census numbers. That's always been my understanding, and what I was told by several different census volunteers when I lived in Queens during the 2010 census. I'd wager about 1/3 of that boroughs population is of the "noncitizen" variety so I assume they know what they were talking about.

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non citizens refers to anyone who is not US citizen it is not interchangeable with illegal immigrant.  although illegal immigrants are a subset of non-citizens. but the argument being made if i understand it is that CA is successful because they attract illegal immigrants.  So i want you to think about that argument for a minute. 

 

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but the argument being made if i understand it is that CA is successful because they attract illegal immigrants.

 

No, it's they are growing because they attract illegals, because they don't do much of anything to remove them.

 

That's not success.

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Immigration is a federal issue. Its not the place for cities and states to enforce it.

 

It's not their place to block enforcement either.

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The argument as I understand it is that CA is only great because they don't enforce immigration.  Could you further opine on that or clarify it.

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The argument as I understand it is that CA is only great because they don't enforce immigration.  Could you further opine on that or clarify it.

 

The way I understand it is they are "growing" for that reason.  The "great" part is quite debatable.

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No, it's they are growing because they attract illegals, because they don't do much of anything to remove them.

 

That's not success.

 

It is if it builds their economy, and there's every indication that it does, then yes I'd call that success. I'd even be willing to pay more in taxes to support them until they get on their own feet. In fact, I'd take illegals by the busload, truckload, trainload in Cleveland if it meant boosting our economy, population, etc.


"Nearly every problem that we have in the USA -- unaffordable health care, prison overpopulation, hyper militarization, climate change, racism, gun violence, poverty, poor education, urban sprawl and others -- cannot be positively addressed because bribery and conflicts of interest are legal under campaign finance laws which protect the uber-wealthy and the narrow self-interests who grossly benefit from our afflictions."

 

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The argument as I understand it is that CA is only great because they don't enforce immigration.  Could you further opine on that or clarify it.

 

The way I understand it is they are "growing" for that reason.  The "great" part is quite debatable.

 

So your assertion is that illegal immigration is merely helping them grow.  And that this growth along with all of the other metrics discussed earlier are improving because why?

 

It's almost like sanctuary policies and the presence of illegal immigrants doesn't hurt the state at all.

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The argument as I understand it is that CA is only great because they don't enforce immigration.  Could you further opine on that or clarify it.

 

The way I understand it is they are "growing" for that reason.  The "great" part is quite debatable.

 

So your assertion is that illegal immigration is merely helping them grow.  And that this growth along with all of the other metrics discussed earlier are improving because why?

 

It's almost like sanctuary policies and the presence of illegal immigrants doesn't hurt the state at all.

The population is growing.  What it's doing to the economy is at best debatable.  The fact that they are forming separatist communities often incompatable with our culture can be seen as a negative as well.

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He does have a valid point, Trump does want to cut the number of people legally allowed into this country in half.

 

Yes, the far right not only has a problem with illegal immigrants but LEGAL immigrants as well.  It's quite sad.

 

They are quite fine with Norwegian immigrants.  It's the one's from Africa that they have issues with.  Don't call them racist though because you are just falling into their trap.

 

Well I certainly don't speak for him.  IMO he only wants immigrants likely to buy his BS.

 

Norwegian immigrants do well and so do African immigrants from English speaking nations.  That's the kind we should want.  People who are likely to assmilate.  Ideally not to many of any given type, but those who already think like we do.

 

Big clumps of people who don't speak our language, have no interest in learning it, and who have an entirely different cultural mindset?  Not so much.    Unscreened individuals?  Absolutely not.

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The argument as I understand it is that CA is only great because they don't enforce immigration.  Could you further opine on that or clarify it.

 

The way I understand it is they are "growing" for that reason.  The "great" part is quite debatable.

 

So your assertion is that illegal immigration is merely helping them grow.  And that this growth along with all of the other metrics discussed earlier are improving because why?

 

It's almost like sanctuary policies and the presence of illegal immigrants doesn't hurt the state at all.

The population is growing.  What it's doing to the economy is at best debatable.  The fact that they are forming separatist communities often incompatable with our culture can be seen as a negative as well.

 

What's happening with their economy is not debatable but your separatist assertion is highly debatable if not dubious.

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He does have a valid point, Trump does want to cut the number of people legally allowed into this country in half.

 

Yes, the far right not only has a problem with illegal immigrants but LEGAL immigrants as well.  It's quite sad.

 

They are quite fine with Norwegian immigrants.  It's the one's from Africa that they have issues with.  Don't call them racist though because you are just falling into their trap.

 

Well I certainly don't speak for him.  IMO he only wants immigrants likely to buy his BS.

 

Norwegian immigrants do well and so do African immigrants from English speaking nations.  That's the kind we should want.  People who are likely to assmilate.  Ideally not to many of any given type, but those who already think like we do.

 

Big clumps of people who don't speak our language, have no interest in learning it, and who have an entirely different cultural mindset?  Not so much.    Unscreened individuals?  Absolutely not.

 

You have preconceived notions about assimilation that are not based in fact.

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Norwegian immigrants do well and so do African immigrants from English speaking nations.  That's the kind we should want.  People who are likely to assmilate.  Ideally not to many of any given type, but those who already think like we do.

 

Big clumps of people who don't speak our language, have no interest in learning it, and who have an entirely different cultural mindset?  Not so much.    Unscreened individuals?  Absolutely not.[/color]

 

Just highlighting the racism here.  It's disgusting.


Very Stable Genius

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Norwegian immigrants do well and so do African immigrants from English speaking nations.  That's the kind we should want.  People who are likely to assmilate.  Ideally not to many of any given type, but those who already think like we do.

 

Big clumps of people who don't speak our language, have no interest in learning it, and who have an entirely different cultural mindset?  Not so much.    Unscreened individuals?  Absolutely not.[/color]

 

Just highlighting the racism here.  It's disgusting.

 

Where's the racism here? Against Norwegians? Africans? As far as I know the racial makeup of those two groups couldn't be more radically different. The rest is about cultural assimilation. Why shouldn't we expect immigrants to assimilate and adopt American cultural norms? Why would anyone want to move here if they were unwilling or opposed to doing so?

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Norwegian immigrants do well and so do African immigrants from English speaking nations.  That's the kind we should want.  People who are likely to assmilate.  Ideally not to many of any given type, but those who already think like we do.

 

Big clumps of people who don't speak our language, have no interest in learning it, and who have an entirely different cultural mindset?  Not so much.    Unscreened individuals?  Absolutely not.[/color]

 

Just highlighting the racism here.  It's disgusting.

 

Where's the racism here? Against Norwegians? Africans? As far as I know the racial makeup of those two groups couldn't be more radically different. The rest is about cultural assimilation. Why shouldn't we expect immigrants to assimilate and adopt American cultural norms? Why would anyone want to move here if they were unwilling or opposed to doing so?

 

There seems to be a different requirement of Africans than of Norwegians is there not?

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Norwegian immigrants do well and so do African immigrants from English speaking nations.  That's the kind we should want.  People who are likely to assmilate.  Ideally not to many of any given type, but those who already think like we do.

 

Big clumps of people who don't speak our language, have no interest in learning it, and who have an entirely different cultural mindset?  Not so much.    Unscreened individuals?  Absolutely not.[/color]

 

Just highlighting the racism here.  It's disgusting.

 

Where's the racism here? Against Norwegians? Africans? As far as I know the racial makeup of those two groups couldn't be more radically different. The rest is about cultural assimilation. Why shouldn't we expect immigrants to assimilate and adopt American cultural norms? Why would anyone want to move here if they were unwilling or opposed to doing so?

 

You (or E Rocc) want Africans who speak our language and think like us and will assimilate to our culture (I thought part of what makes America great is you can live however you want, right?  Land of the Free and all...) while placing none of those requirements on Norwegians.

 

It's sad and pathetic how intolerant those on the right are of people who speak a different language, practice a different faith, or live a different lifestyle than them.


Very Stable Genius

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Norwegian immigrants do well and so do African immigrants from English speaking nations.  That's the kind we should want.  People who are likely to assmilate.  Ideally not to many of any given type, but those who already think like we do.

 

Big clumps of people who don't speak our language, have no interest in learning it, and who have an entirely different cultural mindset?  Not so much.    Unscreened individuals?  Absolutely not.[/color]

 

Just highlighting the racism here.  It's disgusting.

 

Where's the racism here? Against Norwegians? Africans? As far as I know the racial makeup of those two groups couldn't be more radically different. The rest is about cultural assimilation. Why shouldn't we expect immigrants to assimilate and adopt American cultural norms? Why would anyone want to move here if they were unwilling or opposed to doing so?

 

You (or E Rocc) want Africans who speak our language and think like us and will assimilate to our culture (I thought part of what makes America great is you can live however you want, right?  Land of the Free and all...) while placing none of those requirements on Norwegians.

 

It's sad and pathetic how intolerant those on the right are of people who speak a different language, practice a different faith, or live a different lifestyle than them.

 

Don't call them racist though because that's why Trump wins.

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^To that point. And speaking as a Conservative myself...  If you truly just want them to assimilate, then there wouldn't be an issue with the country of origin; just the rate at which assimilation occurs.

 

To assume that a Norweigian is more likely to quickly assimilate to American culture than a South African, Kenyan, or Namibian is to assume that skin color is the main driver, not culture.

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Norwegian immigrants do well and so do African immigrants from English speaking nations.  That's the kind we should want.  People who are likely to assmilate.  Ideally not to many of any given type, but those who already think like we do.

 

Big clumps of people who don't speak our language, have no interest in learning it, and who have an entirely different cultural mindset?  Not so much.    Unscreened individuals?  Absolutely not.[/color]

 

Just highlighting the racism here.  It's disgusting.

 

Where's the racism here? Against Norwegians? Africans? As far as I know the racial makeup of those two groups couldn't be more radically different. The rest is about cultural assimilation. Why shouldn't we expect immigrants to assimilate and adopt American cultural norms? Why would anyone want to move here if they were unwilling or opposed to doing so?

 

You (or E Rocc) want Africans who speak our language and think like us and will assimilate to our culture (I thought part of what makes America great is you can live however you want, right?  Land of the Free and all...) while placing none of those requirements on Norwegians.

 

It's sad and pathetic how intolerant those on the right are of people who speak a different language, practice a different faith, or live a different lifestyle than them.

 

You really go out of your way to deliberately distort what someone says. Who's intolerant of anyone who speaks a different language? It's just that an immigrant who already speaks English will have an easier time. But it's crucial for everyone else to learn English as quickly as possible in order to advance. Why would you take exception to that? While we have no official language, it's obvious that English is the de facto "official" language of the US, and the faster someone masters it, the faster they get ahead and are able enjoy and participate in everything we have to offer. Duh! If anything it's racist of you to be okay with people who will not learn English, denying them the greater opportunities that would be available if they did.

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Norwegian immigrants do well and so do African immigrants from English speaking nations.  That's the kind we should want.  People who are likely to assmilate.  Ideally not to many of any given type, but those who already think like we do.

 

Big clumps of people who don't speak our language, have no interest in learning it, and who have an entirely different cultural mindset?  Not so much.    Unscreened individuals?  Absolutely not.[/color]

 

Just highlighting the racism here.  It's disgusting.

 

Where's the racism here? Against Norwegians? Africans? As far as I know the racial makeup of those two groups couldn't be more radically different. The rest is about cultural assimilation. Why shouldn't we expect immigrants to assimilate and adopt American cultural norms? Why would anyone want to move here if they were unwilling or opposed to doing so?

 

You (or E Rocc) want Africans who speak our language and think like us and will assimilate to our culture (I thought part of what makes America great is you can live however you want, right?  Land of the Free and all...) while placing none of those requirements on Norwegians.

 

It's sad and pathetic how intolerant those on the right are of people who speak a different language, practice a different faith, or live a different lifestyle than them.

 

You really go out of your way to deliberately distort what someone says. Who's intolerant of anyone who speaks a different language? It's just that an immigrant who already speaks English will have an easier time. But it's crucial for everyone else to learn English as quickly as possible in order to advance. Why would you take exception to that? While we have no official language, it's obvious that English is the de facto "official" language of the US, and the faster someone masters it, the faster they get ahead and are able enjoy and participate in everything we have to offer. Duh! If anything it's racist of you to be okay with people who will not learn English, denying them the greater opportunities that would be available if they did.

 

I have a friend from Cameroon here on an artist visa.  He speaks 4 languages and has two higher degrees, and still sees the effects of racism here in the USA by dumb hillbillies who certainly don't command the Queen's English!

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Lol my buddy from Laos speaks French, English, Mandarin, Lao, and Tagalog.

 

........ I need to buy Rosetta Stone

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Norwegian immigrants do well and so do African immigrants from English speaking nations.  That's the kind we should want.  People who are likely to assmilate.  Ideally not to many of any given type, but those who already think like we do.

 

Big clumps of people who don't speak our language, have no interest in learning it, and who have an entirely different cultural mindset?  Not so much.    Unscreened individuals?  Absolutely not.[/color]

 

Just highlighting the racism here.  It's disgusting.

 

Where's the racism here? Against Norwegians? Africans? As far as I know the racial makeup of those two groups couldn't be more radically different. The rest is about cultural assimilation. Why shouldn't we expect immigrants to assimilate and adopt American cultural norms? Why would anyone want to move here if they were unwilling or opposed to doing so?

 

You (or E Rocc) want Africans who speak our language and think like us and will assimilate to our culture (I thought part of what makes America great is you can live however you want, right?  Land of the Free and all...) while placing none of those requirements on Norwegians.

 

It's sad and pathetic how intolerant those on the right are of people who speak a different language, practice a different faith, or live a different lifestyle than them.

 

You really go out of your way to deliberately distort what someone says. Who's intolerant of anyone who speaks a different language? It's just that an immigrant who already speaks English will have an easier time. But it's crucial for everyone else to learn English as quickly as possible in order to advance. Why would you take exception to that? While we have no official language, it's obvious that English is the de facto "official" language of the US, and the faster someone masters it, the faster they get ahead and are able enjoy and participate in everything we have to offer. Duh! If anything it's racist of you to be okay with people who will not learn English, denying them the greater opportunities that would be available if they did.

 

I ****ing bolded it or do you just choose not read?  E Rocc said he would prefer immigrants who speak English.

 

Nice spin at the end but I'm not the one advocating for immigrants from Norway, to avoid the immigrants from **** hole countries, that all Nigerians live in huts.

 

I'm also not supporting the Occupant of the Oval Office who said those things.

 

Good try, though.


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Norwegian immigrants do well and so do African immigrants from English speaking nations.  That's the kind we should want.  People who are likely to assmilate.  Ideally not to many of any given type, but those who already think like we do.

 

Big clumps of people who don't speak our language, have no interest in learning it, and who have an entirely different cultural mindset?  Not so much.    Unscreened individuals?  Absolutely not.[/color]

 

Just highlighting the racism here.  It's disgusting.

 

Where's the racism here? Against Norwegians? Africans? As far as I know the racial makeup of those two groups couldn't be more radically different. The rest is about cultural assimilation. Why shouldn't we expect immigrants to assimilate and adopt American cultural norms? Why would anyone want to move here if they were unwilling or opposed to doing so?

 

You (or E Rocc) want Africans who speak our language and think like us and will assimilate to our culture (I thought part of what makes America great is you can live however you want, right?  Land of the Free and all...) while placing none of those requirements on Norwegians.

 

It's sad and pathetic how intolerant those on the right are of people who speak a different language, practice a different faith, or live a different lifestyle than them.

 

You really go out of your way to deliberately distort what someone says. Who's intolerant of anyone who speaks a different language? It's just that an immigrant who already speaks English will have an easier time. But it's crucial for everyone else to learn English as quickly as possible in order to advance. Why would you take exception to that? While we have no official language, it's obvious that English is the de facto "official" language of the US, and the faster someone masters it, the faster they get ahead and are able enjoy and participate in everything we have to offer. Duh! If anything it's racist of you to be okay with people who will not learn English, denying them the greater opportunities that would be available if they did.

 

EVD you are the only one distorting anything here.  And if you can't read the original comment in plain English then maybe you need some ESL help so that you can fully assimilate.

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Norwegian immigrants do well and so do African immigrants from English speaking nations.  That's the kind we should want.  People who are likely to assmilate.  Ideally not to many of any given type, but those who already think like we do.

 

Big clumps of people who don't speak our language, have no interest in learning it, and who have an entirely different cultural mindset?  Not so much.    Unscreened individuals?  Absolutely not.[/color]

 

Just highlighting the racism here.  It's disgusting.

 

Where's the racism here? Against Norwegians? Africans? As far as I know the racial makeup of those two groups couldn't be more radically different. The rest is about cultural assimilation. Why shouldn't we expect immigrants to assimilate and adopt American cultural norms? Why would anyone want to move here if they were unwilling or opposed to doing so?

 

You (or E Rocc) want Africans who speak our language and think like us and will assimilate to our culture (I thought part of what makes America great is you can live however you want, right?  Land of the Free and all...) while placing none of those requirements on Norwegians.

 

It's sad and pathetic how intolerant those on the right are of people who speak a different language, practice a different faith, or live a different lifestyle than them.

 

You really go out of your way to deliberately distort what someone says. Who's intolerant of anyone who speaks a different language? It's just that an immigrant who already speaks English will have an easier time. But it's crucial for everyone else to learn English as quickly as possible in order to advance. Why would you take exception to that? While we have no official language, it's obvious that English is the de facto "official" language of the US, and the faster someone masters it, the faster they get ahead and are able enjoy and participate in everything we have to offer. Duh! If anything it's racist of you to be okay with people who will not learn English, denying them the greater opportunities that would be available if they did.

 

EVD you are the only one distorting anything here.  And if you can't read the original comment in plain English then maybe you need some ESL help so that you can fully assimilate.

 

so you really don't think we as Americans have (or should have) shared cultural values? To hell with the Constitution, our system of government, etc, etc? No wonder we've become so balkanized as a nation (although fortunately we still have immigrants--of all races, backgrounds and cultures--who believe in those values and are regularly sworn in as American citizens). I'm guessing you're very young (and yes, I've already said many times I'm old!), but if this is the kind of junk that's being taught in schools these days I see very little future left for the nation. Sad. :(

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Norwegian immigrants do well and so do African immigrants from English speaking nations.  That's the kind we should want.  People who are likely to assmilate.  Ideally not to many of any given type, but those who already think like we do.

 

Big clumps of people who don't speak our language, have no interest in learning it, and who have an entirely different cultural mindset?  Not so much.    Unscreened individuals?  Absolutely not.[/color]

 

Just highlighting the racism here.  It's disgusting.

 

It's not "racism".  That's become a buzzword people use when they don't like a given piece of cultural bias.  It's damaging.  It tries to set specific groups above criticism.

 

"English speaking" is not a race.  Nor is a given mindset.  By the way, I said African immigrants from English speaking nations do better here.  I didn't actually say "prefer English speaking immigrants", but as a matter of fact I think that is a very good idea.

 

Moving to the USA is a privilege, not a global "right".  We have a right as a people to set conditions on doing so.  And the government, at all levels, has a duty to enforce those conditions.

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so you really don't think we as Americans have (or should have) shared cultural values? To hell with the Constitution, our system of government, etc, etc? No wonder we've become so balkanized as a nation (although fortunately we still have immigrants--of all races, backgrounds and cultures--who believe in those values and are regularly sworn in as American citizens). I'm guessing you're very young (and yes, I've already said many times I'm old!), but if this is the kind of junk that's being taught in schools these days I see very little future left for the nation. Sad. :(

 

A) The Constitution makes no mention of assimilation. Hence, no official language or religion.

 

B) I would agree that we should have shared values as Americans. I also appreciate when immigrants work hard to learn our shared language and customs.

 

C) This isn't something that can be blamed on schools. How we treat people who our different than us is a reflection of our upbringing, nothing else.

 

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Norwegian immigrants do well and so do African immigrants from English speaking nations.  That's the kind we should want.  People who are likely to assmilate.  Ideally not to many of any given type, but those who already think like we do.

 

Big clumps of people who don't speak our language, have no interest in learning it, and who have an entirely different cultural mindset?  Not so much.    Unscreened individuals?  Absolutely not.[/color]

 

Just highlighting the racism here.  It's disgusting.

 

It's not "racism".  That's become a buzzword people use when they don't like a given piece of cultural bias.  It's damaging.  It tries to set specific groups above criticism.

 

"English speaking" is not a race.  Nor is a given mindset.  By the way, I said African immigrants from English speaking nations do better here.  I didn't actually say "prefer English speaking immigrants", but as a matter of fact I think that is a very good idea.

 

Moving to the USA is a privilege, not a global "right".  We have a right as a people to set conditions on doing so.  And the government, at all levels, has a duty to enforce those conditions.

 

You state that Norwegians (who don't speak english) and Africans from English speaking countries do better.  Do you have any evidence of this statement or is it just your feeling?  Remember facts don't care about your feelings. 

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It's just that an immigrant who already speaks English will have an easier time. But it's crucial for everyone else to learn English as quickly as possible in order to advance. Why would you take exception to that? While we have no official language, it's obvious that English is the de facto "official" language of the US, and the faster someone masters it, the faster they get ahead and are able enjoy and participate in everything we have to offer.

 

My grandma, who was a de facto immigrant (born here, grew up in Poland) would agree with this about 3,000%. 

 

Quite frankly, I think English should be our national language, with some degree of fluency required for naturalized citizenship.

 

Peoples who don't learn it and don't assimilate into the general population do indeed form separatist communities.  The thing is, those communities need "leaders"

to deal with the general nation and culture on their behalf.  Those people become less important as a culture assimilates (when was the last time you heard about a Polish, German, or Irish community "leader", meaning just that group.  You don't.    But sometimes "leaders" try to stay relevant and important by holding their people back.

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It's just that an immigrant who already speaks English will have an easier time. But it's crucial for everyone else to learn English as quickly as possible in order to advance. Why would you take exception to that? While we have no official language, it's obvious that English is the de facto "official" language of the US, and the faster someone masters it, the faster they get ahead and are able enjoy and participate in everything we have to offer.

 

My grandma, who was a de facto immigrant (born here, grew up in Poland) would agree with this about 3,000%. 

 

Quite frankly, I think English should be our national language, with some degree of fluency required for naturalized citizenship.

Peoples who don't learn it and don't assimilate into the general population do indeed form separatist communities.  The thing is, those communities need "leaders"

to deal with the general nation and culture on their behalf.  Those people become less important as a culture assimilates (when was the last time you heard about a Polish, German, or Irish community "leader", meaning just that group.  You don't.    But sometimes "leaders" try to stay relevant and important by holding their people back.

 

You have to be able to read the test in English, right?

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It's just that an immigrant who already speaks English will have an easier time. But it's crucial for everyone else to learn English as quickly as possible in order to advance. Why would you take exception to that? While we have no official language, it's obvious that English is the de facto "official" language of the US, and the faster someone masters it, the faster they get ahead and are able enjoy and participate in everything we have to offer.

 

My grandma, who was a de facto immigrant (born here, grew up in Poland) would agree with this about 3,000%. 

 

Quite frankly, I think English should be our national language, with some degree of fluency required for naturalized citizenship.

 

Peoples who don't learn it and don't assimilate into the general population do indeed form separatist communities.  The thing is, those communities need "leaders"

to deal with the general nation and culture on their behalf.  Those people become less important as a culture assimilates (when was the last time you heard about a Polish, German, or Irish community "leader", meaning just that group.  You don't.    But sometimes "leaders" try to stay relevant and important by holding their people back.

 

There is no evidence that immigrants today are learning english at any different of a rate than previous immigrants. 

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It's just that an immigrant who already speaks English will have an easier time. But it's crucial for everyone else to learn English as quickly as possible in order to advance. Why would you take exception to that? While we have no official language, it's obvious that English is the de facto "official" language of the US, and the faster someone masters it, the faster they get ahead and are able enjoy and participate in everything we have to offer.

 

My grandma, who was a de facto immigrant (born here, grew up in Poland) would agree with this about 3,000%. 

 

Quite frankly, I think English should be our national language, with some degree of fluency required for naturalized citizenship.

Peoples who don't learn it and don't assimilate into the general population do indeed form separatist communities.  The thing is, those communities need "leaders"

to deal with the general nation and culture on their behalf.  Those people become less important as a culture assimilates (when was the last time you heard about a Polish, German, or Irish community "leader", meaning just that group.  You don't.    But sometimes "leaders" try to stay relevant and important by holding their people back.

 

You have to be able to read the test in English, right?

 

there are some exceptions to this but generally - yes.

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My grandparents came here from Sicily and went to work immediately.  As such, they never gained a full grasp of English and were functionally illiterate in English.  They were not separatists at all.  They were proud Americans who did the best they could to raise an American family.

 

This is the American dream.

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so you really don't think we as Americans have (or should have) shared cultural values? To hell with the Constitution, our system of government, etc, etc? No wonder we've become so balkanized as a nation (although fortunately we still have immigrants--of all races, backgrounds and cultures--who believe in those values and are regularly sworn in as American citizens). I'm guessing you're very young (and yes, I've already said many times I'm old!), but if this is the kind of junk that's being taught in schools these days I see very little future left for the nation. Sad. :(

 

A) The Constitution makes no mention of assimilation. Hence, no official language or religion.

 

 

my point was that the Constitution and every other document and institution related to our government is part of the overall culture of America. But it seems that certain people here apparently see no need of immigrants to adapt to or adopt the cultural norms of the nation. In fact it seems they willingly celebrate those who openly defy them! It's bizarre. Again, I ask, why would anyone want to be here if they don't see America as a place in sync with their own values? It doesn't make sense. And yes, I already said we have no official language, but it's obvious that in order get ahead, English is pretty much a requirement.

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so you really don't think we as Americans have (or should have) shared cultural values? To hell with the Constitution, our system of government, etc, etc? No wonder we've become so balkanized as a nation (although fortunately we still have immigrants--of all races, backgrounds and cultures--who believe in those values and are regularly sworn in as American citizens). I'm guessing you're very young (and yes, I've already said many times I'm old!), but if this is the kind of junk that's being taught in schools these days I see very little future left for the nation. Sad. :(

 

A) The Constitution makes no mention of assimilation. Hence, no official language or religion.

 

 

my point was that the Constitution and every other document and institution related to our government is part of the overall culture of America. But it seems that certain people here apparently see no need of immigrants to adapt to or adopt the cultural norms of the nation. In fact it seems they willingly celebrate immigrants who openly defy it! It's bizarre. Again, I ask, why would anyone want to be here if they don't see America as a place in sync with their own values? It doesn't make sense. And yes, I already said we have no official language, but it's obvious that in order get ahead, English is pretty much a requirement.

 

In what ways are people defying American culture?  American culture like any other culture is not static either.  Every wave of immigration has had an impact on our culture. 

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I'd agree with you for the most part eastvillagedon[/member] ... The Left also has an issue disavowing some fringe like Farrakhan and Sarsour - which should be easy.

 

Nonetheless, I think racism is a major driver behind a lot of the "YOU GONE SPEAK ENGLISH IN THIS COUNTRY BOY" that faces many immigrants who are genuinely trying to learn.

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I'd agree with you for the most part eastvillagedon[/member] ... The Left also has an issue disavowing some fringe like Farrakhan and Sarsour - which should be easy.

 

Nonetheless, I think racism is a major driver behind a lot of the "YOU GONE SPEAK ENGLISH IN THIS COUNTRY BOY" that faces many immigrants who are genuinely trying to learn.

 

The fringe Farakkhan types are not even fringe on the right.  they have offices in the White House.  Let's start there with the disavowals.  But I think Farrakhan and Sarsour are both dopes.  Now lets see those on the right disavow their lunatics including Ben "ethnic cleansing is fine" Shapiro.

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All that stuff about these people are culturally different than us, they're not going to fit in, they don't assimilate, they don't want to learn the langauge, they're forming enclaves, the WASP Americans of 100 years ago said all that same stuff about Catholic immigrants pretty much verbatim back in the day. I do believe assimilation is important, I think we have to be one country but I haven't seen anything to convince me that it doesn't happen after a generation or two, for any group.

 

Seems red america and blue america are really having a much tougher time assimilating with each other than any immigrants are.

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