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The Trump Presidency

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15 hours ago, jonoh81 said:

 

Yeah... I'm going to need some citations about exactly what his policy proposals are that you object to and why. I asked for specifics and you're giving me talking points.  Furthermore, you're going to have to explain how such policies would be a direct danger to American democracy, the Constitution or its cultural foundations in a similar way to Trump's.

I would also like to know how you square your knee-jerk opposition to socialism when America has long embraced it in plenty of aspects of current government and society.  Or do you really not understand how police and fire departments get money, among other things?  

This is also the 2nd time one of you has mentioned Bernie's supporters.  Again, this is not a discussion on supporters of either candidate.  I shouldn't have to work this hard to get some pretty basic answers.

 

 

I am happy to engage you on a serious discussion about crazy Bernie and his horrendous policy ideas, however, it will be meant for a Bernie thread. The mention of Bernie was solely a the fact that he is a symptom of the ongoing problem that led us to Trump, and that if people are not careful, they will continue going down the abyss and end of with Bernie. 

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54 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

I am happy to engage you on a serious discussion about crazy Bernie and his horrendous policy ideas, however, it will be meant for a Bernie thread. The mention of Bernie was solely a the fact that he is a symptom of the ongoing problem that led us to Trump, and that if people are not careful, they will continue going down the abyss and end of with Bernie. 

 

I would imagine given that he's a candidate, the 2020 Democratic thread should be okay to discuss his ideas and the differences with Trump.  I await your answers there.  

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6 minutes ago, freefourur said:

US taxpayer dollars being funneled to the Trump family. But Senate GOP is worried about Hunter Biden.

 

Aside from the possibility of this sort of practice being widespread (to a lesser degree, surely) among legislators, why wasn't profiting off the presidency the focus of an impeachment inquiry from day one? Why is it still not?

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Imagine if Obama, during his SOTU, stopped to give, I don't know, Rachel Maddow (this is not to equate her to Limbaugh, just picking a somewhat high profile liberal person in media) the Presidential Medal of Freedom.

 

I think Republicans might have stormed the entire gathering right then and there and Fox News would have declared a national emergency.


Very Stable Genius

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1 hour ago, Robuu said:

 

Aside from the possibility of this sort of practice being widespread (to a lesser degree, surely) among legislators, why wasn't profiting off the presidency the focus of an impeachment inquiry from day one? Why is it still not?

 

If the Senate is investigating Hunter Biden, the House should be pulling all these receipts from the Trump properties and keeping up their quest for Trump's tax returns.  

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1 hour ago, Robuu said:

 

Aside from the possibility of this sort of practice being widespread (to a lesser degree, surely) among legislators, why wasn't profiting off the presidency the focus of an impeachment inquiry from day one? Why is it still not?

 

I imagine Democrats went after the worst of the crimes and corruption, because if the Senate wasn't going to convict over the worst, they certainly weren't going to convict on anything arguably less.  Senate Republicans would've acquitted him no matter what the articles were or the quantity of them.

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13 minutes ago, jonoh81 said:

 

I imagine Democrats went after the worst of the crimes and corruption, because if the Senate wasn't going to convict over the worst, they certainly weren't going to convict on anything arguably less.  Senate Republicans would've acquitted him no matter what the articles were or the quantity of them.

 

What they went after was something from summer 2019 that was done behind closed doors.

 

Out-in-the-open emoluments violations have been occurring since at least January 2017. Granted, it wasn't until January 2019 that the opposition party controlled the house.

 

Clearly, the senate wasn't/isn't going to convict on anything whatsoever. But every blatant impeachable offense that goes unchallenged gets normalized. I'm not old enough to remember when Carter sold his peanut farm, but I am old enough to remember when it would be considered unacceptable to profit from taxpayers by ordering the secret service to pay for rooms at your resort. Or allow foreign leaders and CEOs to curry favor by staying at your hotel. Or give members of your private club special access to state secrets, Etc.

 

Even in terms of strategy over principle, this is stuff everyone can fundamentally understand. It's really hard to muddy and obfuscate it.

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https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/food-stamp-change-will-hurt-kids-educators-advocates-testify-n1131646?cid=sm_npd_nn_tw_ma

 

Quote

A rule change to the federal food stamp program proposed by the Trump administration would cause children in low-income families across the United States to go hungry, educators and hunger advocates told Congress on Thursday.

 

Quote

The plan, the second of three proposed rule changes to SNAP by the Trump administration, is expected to take effect soon. An earlier rule will impose stricter work requirements on able-bodied adults without disabilities, and it is expected to cut benefits to approximately 700,000 people when it takes effect April 1.

 

This rule change to the food stamp program proposed by the Trump admin. will leave more than 3,000,000 people without access to food through SNAP and cause nearly 1,000,000 children to lose their auto enrollment in school lunch programs.

 

Why does Trump hate poor kids?


Very Stable Genius

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10 minutes ago, DarkandStormy said:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/food-stamp-change-will-hurt-kids-educators-advocates-testify-n1131646?cid=sm_npd_nn_tw_ma

 

 

 

This rule change to the food stamp program proposed by the Trump admin. will leave more than 3,000,000 people without access to food through SNAP and cause nearly 1,000,000 children to lose their auto enrollment in school lunch programs.

 

Why does Trump hate poor kids?

 

Just wait if he wins a second term and is a lame duck President.   He will gut every social service program then head off into his cushy retirement.  

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5 hours ago, DarkandStormy said:

Imagine if Obama, during his SOTU, stopped to give, I don't know, Rachel Maddow (this is not to equate her to Limbaugh, just picking a somewhat high profile liberal person in media) the Presidential Medal of Freedom.

 

I think Republicans might have stormed the entire gathering right then and there and Fox News would have declared a national emergency.

 

In fact Obama gave many Presidential Medals to well known liberals, some of whom today are of course well known as outright Trump haters (Robert DeNiro!). So it works both ways

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Presidential_Medal_of_Freedom_recipients

 

Meryl Streep            2014              

Steven Spielberg    2015             

Robert Redford       2016          

Robert De Niro       2016           

Tom Hanks             2016               

Cicely Tyson           2016              

 

 

Oprah Winfrey     2013 

Marlo Thomas    2014 

Lorne Michaels   2016 

Ellen DeGeneres 2016 

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10 minutes ago, eastvillagedon said:

 

In fact Obama gave many Presidential Medals to well known liberals, some of whom today are of course well known as outright Trump haters (Robert DeNiro!). So it works both ways

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Presidential_Medal_of_Freedom_recipients

 

Meryl Streep            2014              

Steven Spielberg    2015             

Robert Redford       2016          

Robert De Niro       2016           

Tom Hanks             2016               

Cicely Tyson           2016              

 

 

Oprah Winfrey     2013 

Marlo Thomas    2014 

Lorne Michaels   2016 

Ellen DeGeneres 2016 

 

Were any awarded during a SOTU?  Otherwise, thanks for furnishing an irrelevant list.


Very Stable Genius

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Now here is a Trump initiative (or seed of one) more specifically near the interests of many folks on these boards than much of the general public.

 

Architectural Record has obtained a preliminary draft of an executive order that would overturn a 58-year policy of not having any official architectural style guide for public buildings, and instead favor classical style architecture, with nods towards other historic European forms (Gothic, Mediterranean, etc.).

 

https://www.architecturalrecord.com/articles/14466-will-the-white-house-order-new-federal-architecture-to-be-classical

 

According to the draft, the new stylistic mandate covers “(i) all Federal courthouses and agency headquarters, (ii) all Federal public buildings in the National Capital Region, and (iii) all other Federal public buildings that did or are expected to cost more than $50 million ... but does not include infrastructure projects or land ports of entry.”

 

It has occasioned a bit of a firestorm in the niche world of architecture and urban design:

 

https://www.citylab.com/design/2020/02/federal-building-classical-architecture-modern-design-trump/606097/

 

https://archinect.com/news/article/150182600/read-the-draft-text-of-president-trump-s-classical-architecture-executive-order

 

https://www.sah.org/about-sah/news/sah-news/news-detail/2020/02/06/society-of-architectural-historians-letter-in-opposition-to-proposed-executive-order-making-federal-buildings-beautiful-again

 

https://www.architectmagazine.com/design/editorial/an-executive-order-on-federal-architecture-is-serious-business_o

 

One Forbes columnist (typical Forbes) argues that government buildings should remain ugly because government is ugly and shouldn't try to hide its ugliness:

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/juansebastianpinto/2020/02/07/the-dark-side-of-trumps-architectural-fantasy/#601135175de6

 

The Federalist, of course, is completely in favor (though they'd be in favor of basically anything Trump did, so that's not surprising, but in this case the writer makes a decent photo comparison of old and new courthouses in Salt Lake City to support his point):

 

https://thefederalist.com/2020/02/07/sen-mike-lee-make-federal-architecture-great-again/

 

Personally, like so many modern political views, I find myself cheering for this not because of what it is for but because of what it is against.  I don't bow at the altar of neo-Greek/neo-Roman design elements, but if it means something other than ever more soulless modern glass cubes and concrete-block Brutalist atrocities, I'll deal with the GSA playing HOA and enforcing a stricter design code than I might have preferred.

 

The AIA has voiced opposition to the measure, as several of those links point out, but the opposition is so platitudinous that I don't know if they have some vested historical or financial interest in the Brutalist or modernist style (e.g., modern glass-cube garbage is the only skill set most of their members have vis-a-vis large public buildings) that has in practice dominated public building design even while there has officially been no style guide.

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The biggest difference with the list EVD posted is how those people became famous.  It wasn't by hosting a radio show that was meant to be divisive and partisan, it was through acting in movies that were mostly apolitical.   In the end, who cares though.  I certainly don't.  SOTU has been a highly partisan show as far back as I can remember, and the "imagine if..." statements are not effective in the least.  

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19 minutes ago, eastvillagedon said:

 

In fact Obama gave many Presidential Medals to well known liberals, some of whom today are of course well known as outright Trump haters (Robert DeNiro!). So it works both ways

 

Obama was so good, he predicted a future Trump haters and awarded them medals.   All without the help of the Deep State.   😏   Those were the days....

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@Gramarye i'm not against this either.  I don't know that I'd enforce a particular style, but spending a little more money to make our public buildings more interesting is ok in my book.

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10 minutes ago, ck said:

@Gramarye i'm not against this either.  I don't know that I'd enforce a particular style, but spending a little more money to make our public buildings more interesting is ok in my book.

 

I still haven't found an actual PDF link of the order itself, or I'd have posted that.

 

I'm leery about a directive that boils down to "do classical!"

 

I'm much more comfortable with something more along the lines of "do classical, art deco, Gothic, Beaux-Arts, Mediterranean Revival, Jeffersonian, Georgian, just anything but modern or Brutalist!"

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Trump has really learned from his impeachment. 

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/trump-impeachment-inquiry/vindman-who-provided-key-impeachment-testimony-escorted-white-house-attorney-n1132526

 

Vindman, who provided key impeachment testimony, 'escorted' from White House, attorney says

 

 

Edited by freefourur

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17 minutes ago, ck said:

 

Hmm.  Not great drafting.  In particular, the defined term "traditional architectural style" is left something of an orphan throughout the rest of the document, and "preferred architectural style" is used liberally throughout the rest of the document without becoming a defined term.

 

What I think the intent is is:

 

(1) "classical architectural style" (which is a defined term) is to be "preferred" and "default" for the National Capital Region and all U.S. courthouses;

 

(2) "traditional architectural styles," which are a defined term and expressly include classical as well as Gothic, Romanesque, Spanish Colonial, etc. (guessing I could get Beaux-Arts, Mediterranean Revival, and maybe even some more human-scale traditional Asian styles in here), are to be used for federal buildings outside the National Capital Region and that are not U.S. courthouses;

 

(3) Brutalist and Deconstructivist are specifically defined terms and are expressly excluded from the list of "traditional architectural styles."

 

But I think there are too many places where they mean to say "traditional architectural styles" and said "preferred" instead throughout the rest of the document, making the specific instructions unclear outside of the National Capital Region and federal courthouses.

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1 hour ago, Gramarye said:

 

Hmm.  Not great drafting.  In particular, the defined term "traditional architectural style" is left something of an orphan throughout the rest of the document, and "preferred architectural style" is used liberally throughout the rest of the document without becoming a defined term.

 

What I think the intent is is:

 

(1) "classical architectural style" (which is a defined term) is to be "preferred" and "default" for the National Capital Region and all U.S. courthouses;

 

(2) "traditional architectural styles," which are a defined term and expressly include classical as well as Gothic, Romanesque, Spanish Colonial, etc. (guessing I could get Beaux-Arts, Mediterranean Revival, and maybe even some more human-scale traditional Asian styles in here), are to be used for federal buildings outside the National Capital Region and that are not U.S. courthouses;

 

(3) Brutalist and Deconstructivist are specifically defined terms and are expressly excluded from the list of "traditional architectural styles."

 

But I think there are too many places where they mean to say "traditional architectural styles" and said "preferred" instead throughout the rest of the document, making the specific instructions unclear outside of the National Capital Region and federal courthouses.

 

Who is going to step up and be Trump's version of Albert Speer?  

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2 hours ago, Gramarye said:

Now here is a Trump initiative (or seed of one) more specifically near the interests of many folks on these boards than much of the general public.

 

***

 

Personally, like so many modern political views, I find myself cheering for this not because of what it is for but because of what it is against.  I don't bow at the altar of neo-Greek/neo-Roman design elements, but if it means something other than ever more soulless modern glass cubes and concrete-block Brutalist atrocities, I'll deal with the GSA playing HOA and enforcing a stricter design code than I might have preferred.

 

The AIA has voiced opposition to the measure, as several of those links point out, but the opposition is so platitudinous that I don't know if they have some vested historical or financial interest in the Brutalist or modernist style (e.g., modern glass-cube garbage is the only skill set most of their members have vis-a-vis large public buildings) that has in practice dominated public building design even while there has officially been no style guide.

 

Cheering for more government regulations.  Hmm.

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5 hours ago, DarkandStormy said:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/food-stamp-change-will-hurt-kids-educators-advocates-testify-n1131646?cid=sm_npd_nn_tw_ma

 

 

 

This rule change to the food stamp program proposed by the Trump admin. will leave more than 3,000,000 people without access to food through SNAP and cause nearly 1,000,000 children to lose their auto enrollment in school lunch programs.

 

Why does Trump hate poor kids?

He despises lower income minorities because he and his dad took advantage of them in their New York City real estate dealings, they were sued and lost.

 

The fact that New York Financial Institutions will not lend to the Trump organization should tell people something.

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9 minutes ago, freefourur said:

Sondland out now too.

 

Is he an autocrat yet or nah?

Ask Susan Collins.   She was certain that Trump would do the right thing.  

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This is fine....

 

Trash people doing trash stuff to honorable people. I hope they get their comeuppance in this life....

 

Can we impeach the puny one now?

 

 

18 U.S. Code § 1513.Retaliating against a witness, victim, or an informant

 

(e) Whoever knowingly, with the intent to retaliate, takes any action harmful to any person, including interference with the lawful employment or livelihood of any person, for providing to a law enforcement officer any truthful information relating to the commission or possible commission of any Federal offense, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 10 years, or both.

 

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1513

 

 

When will our long national nightmare end??

 

 

Edited by KJP

"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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15 hours ago, Cleburger said:

 

Who is going to step up and be Trump's version of Albert Speer?  


Someone with better taste than the AIA.

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15 hours ago, Foraker said:

 

Cheering for more government regulations.  Hmm.


Government regulating itself is a little different than regulating private entities. 
 

He’s not deciding style for Sherwin-Williams’ new HQ.  They remain free to build a soulless, nondescript block with no human-scale elements if they want. 

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1 hour ago, Gramarye said:


Government regulating itself is a little different than regulating private entities. 
 

He’s not deciding style for Sherwin-Williams’ new HQ.  They remain free to build a soulless, nondescript block with no human-scale elements if they want. 

Desperately grasping to spin this administration in a positive light.

 

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^That was what the Nazis did as well. Make the professionals of doctors, lawyers, and architects happy with pretty buildings or concert halls while they ransacked the country.  The optimist always finds a reason for the good that is happening instead of realizing the costs. A trillion dollar deficit? Hey we’re going to be able to keep the fuhrer in power so we can slightly upgrade a building or two.  The jews are in a happier place I’m sure of it.  Why would the fuhrer lie?

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3 hours ago, TheCOV said:

Desperately grasping to spin this administration in a positive light.

 


Seriously? 
 

If you have a substantive response to the proposal, I’d love to hear it. Especially an actual defense of Brutalist or Deconstructivist design. 
 

I have many reasons to view the Trump administration in a positive light, and even linked to a fairly long post of mine from 2018 about it. This is hardly even at the top of the list. You read “desperation” because you read what you want to read and hear what you want to hear. 
 

Trump’s approval numbers are as high as they’ve ever been, so I’m not exactly alone, either.  I’d still grant that he’s an underdog for re-election, but with Sanders increasingly looking like the Dem nominee, I’d say Trump has at least a 40% shot at eking out another term. 
 

I don’t think “desperation” means what you think it means. 

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"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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12 minutes ago, Gramarye said:


Seriously? 
 

If you have a substantive response to the proposal, I’d love to hear it. Especially an actual defense of Brutalist or Deconstructivist design. 
 

I have many reasons to view the Trump administration in a positive light, and even linked to a fairly long post of mine from 2018 about it. This is hardly even at the top of the list. You read “desperation” because you read what you want to read and hear what you want to hear. 
 

Trump’s approval numbers are as high as they’ve ever been, so I’m not exactly alone, either.  I’d still grant that he’s an underdog for re-election, but with Sanders increasingly looking like the Dem nominee, I’d say Trump has at least a 40% shot at eking out another term. 
 

I don’t think “desperation” means what you think it means. 

 

Your reasons almost entirely revolve around judges and abortion.  You have long stopped being believable on it being anything else.  Once you dig even a little below the surface, it gets as dirty and gross as those that support Trump for his white nationalism, of which btw, that you ignore. 

Edited by jonoh81

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Trump outlived his usefulness the moment some lady crapped him out of her body....

 

 

 


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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