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The Trump Presidency

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6 minutes ago, freefourur said:

Pelosi ripping the speech is right out of the Trump playbook. Nobody is talking about his speech they are talking about her.  Nice troll job by Nancy. 

 

This is going to come back to haunt the Democrats in coming months when this clip is used in campaign ads to show how vindictive it appears. I'm imagining a split screen showing Trump touting his accomplishments on one side, and Pelosi's performance on the other. Not good optics. 

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1 minute ago, eastvillagedon said:

 

This is going to come back to haunt the Democrats in coming months when this clip is used in campaign ads to show how vindictive it appears. I'm imagining a split screen showing Trump touting his accomplishments on one side, and Pelosi's performance on the other. Not good optics. 

nobody will care about this in 2 days.  And Trump has no accomplishments really. 

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^ A whole bunch of lines are about the economy which hasn't changed since he took office. Then a whole bunch of fluff. Trump is a TV president. He does nothing but golf, break the law, and figure out ways to get good press coverage. 

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21 minutes ago, freefourur said:

Pelosi ripping the speech is right out of the Trump playbook. Nobody is talking about his speech they are talking about her.  Nice troll job by Nancy. 

If she were running for president it could be considered a shrewd move on her end and allowed her to reframe the narrative around her goals and accomplishments. But she is not running for president and therefore, should not be usurping all the attention that would be given to other dems. 

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Just now, Brutus_buckeye said:

If she were running for president it could be considered a shrewd move on her end and allowed her to reframe the narrative around her goals and accomplishments. But she is not running for president and therefore, should not be usurping all the attention that would be given to other dems. 

It takes attention from the president.  That's all that matters. 

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One big Tump accomplishment - He will be the first president in the history of the U.S. to get a vote for conviction from a member of his own party. #winning. 

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23 hours ago, ryanlammi said:

So this is bigger than the Trump Presidency, but his administration is abusing it. I don't think the headline addresses the root cause well, but the article does go deeper into it. This should be a really big story, but unfortunately, no story sticks anymore.

 

Why You May Never Learn the Truth About ICE
 

By Matthew Connelly

Dr. Connelly is a professor of history at Columbia.

 

 

The C.I.A. alone had an estimated 160 million pages of paper records as of the late 1990s, and since then it has released less than 10 percent — fewer and fewer every year. It has not even reviewed the vast majority of the holdings of the clandestine branch for public release, claiming they are exempt from normal declassification review. The agency has a long history of destroying records related to the overthrow of democratically elected governments, mind control experiments and torture....

 

 

 

 

are we.jpg

Edited by surfohio

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9 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

Kristen Sinema will vote to remove too. Wow, expected her not to tbh

 

the fact is there aren't many (any?) moderate, independently minded Democrats left. Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer have their troops on a tight leash. Sinema was probably facing a lot of threats from the party bigwigs to toe the line. So, not really a surprise. 

Edited by eastvillagedon

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Manchin will vote to convict on both counts.  It's a bipartisan vote for conviction and partisan vote to acquit. Looks like they can retire that talking point now.  

Edited by freefourur

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39 minutes ago, eastvillagedon said:

This is going to come back to haunt the Democrats in coming months when this clip is used in campaign ads to show how vindictive it appears. I'm imagining a split screen showing Trump touting his accomplishments on one side, and Pelosi's performance on the other. Not good optics. 

 

Yes, we all remember how "grab 'em by the *****" cost Trump in 2016.  Wait...


Very Stable Genius

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3 minutes ago, freefourur said:

Manchin will vote to convict on both counts.  It's a bipartisan vote for conviction and partisan vote to acquit. Looks like they can retire that talking point now.  

 

Bipartisan support (Amash) for impeachment, and bipartisan support for removal.


Very Stable Genius

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1 hour ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

You apparently quit reading the post after the first line to see that this was not an indictment about how she was disrespectful. It was a post about how she did the Dems a disservice by taking the spotlight off of the other Dems who were vying for office and redirecting the narrative into a personal spat between her and Trump.

 

How you can find that to be trolling is beyond me? I ask you to step back from your partisanship and examine it through a non-political lens, and look at what good could have come from her actions and what bad could have come from her actions.  If the point was to defeat Trump, you don't want to do something that gives him the high ground. His speech may have been filled with lies but people are not focusing on that and instead are focusing on her behavior. She took the focus off his behavior and made it about her. Talk to any PR person and they would likely agree, it was not a good move on her end.  Look at the actions objectively through a non-partisan eye and you will see.  

 

That's a hell of a misrepresentation of what happened.  How did Pelosi manage to do that simply by ripping up a paper?  As for being personal, it should be personal to everyone who values the Constitution, rule of law, the office of president and our democracy.  Thoughts and prayers on the speech copy, though.  And great use of projection.

 

 

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1 hour ago, eastvillagedon said:

 

This is going to come back to haunt the Democrats in coming months when this clip is used in campaign ads to show how vindictive it appears. I'm imagining a split screen showing Trump touting his accomplishments on one side, and Pelosi's performance on the other. Not good optics. 

 

What exactly are Trump's accomplishments?  Can we get a list?  And not from a twitter feed by another sycophant?

 

Also, can you give us the definition of "vindictive" without googling it, because I'm not sure you understand what it means if you think Pelosi is for ripping up a paper, but not Trump who stalked, threatened and fired an ambassador for not towing the line on his attempt to lie about Ukraine and destroy American democracy for his gain.  Republicans will forever be cowards and traitors to their country.  The Benedict Arnolds of the modern era.  

Edited by jonoh81

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3 minutes ago, jonoh81 said:

 

What exactly are Trump's accomplishments?  Can we get a list?

 

Also, can you give us the definition of "vindictive" without googling it, because I'm not sure you understand what it means if you think Pelosi is for ripping up a paper, but not Trump who stalked, threatened and fired an ambassador for not towing the line on his attempt to lie about Ukraine and destroy American democracy for his gain.  Republicans will forever be cowards and traitors to their country.  The Benedict Arnolds of the modern era.  

 

I'm so disappointed. I thought you actually read my posts😭😭😭 That's okay, no hurt feelings🙄

 

 

Edited by eastvillagedon

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2 minutes ago, eastvillagedon said:

 

I'm so disappointed. I thought you actually read my posts😭😭😭

 

 

 

I want you to list what his accomplishments are.  You're supporting him and obviously going to vote for him again.  Give us the specific reasons why you think he deserves it.  You do have an actual opinion that hasn't been given to you by someone else, right?

Edited by jonoh81

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So what? Pelosi took some paper with Trumps speech on it and tore it up AFTER the speech was delivered.. Isn't every copy basically going into the trash at this point anyway? Was she supposed to frame it for her office wall?

Fake outrage when Trump didn't even shake her hand...

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1 hour ago, eastvillagedon said:

 

This is going to come back to haunt the Democrats in coming months when this clip is used in campaign ads to show how vindictive it appears. I'm imagining a split screen showing Trump touting his accomplishments on one side, and Pelosi's performance on the other. Not good optics. 

 

Except that they're campaigning to different audiences to mobilize different bases.  That hypothetical ad you're describing might motivate Trump supporters, but it might also motivate Democrats, too.  They don't want Trump to have any accomplishments, and they want to undo any of his accomplishments they can at the first opportunity as well as delegitimizing those (e.g., Supreme Court appointments) that they cannot undo.  The scene of Pelosi ripping up Trump's accomplishments is exactly what they want, and they would want a Democratic president to do precisely the same thing.

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3 minutes ago, Gramarye said:

 

Except that they're campaigning to different audiences to mobilize different bases.  That hypothetical ad you're describing might motivate Trump supporters, but it might also motivate Democrats, too.  They don't want Trump to have any accomplishments, and they want to undo any of his accomplishments they can at the first opportunity as well as delegitimizing those (e.g., Supreme Court appointments) that they cannot undo.  The scene of Pelosi ripping up Trump's accomplishments is exactly what they want, and they would want a Democratic president to do precisely the same thing.

 

When Trump strips away defense of preexisting conditions and cuts social security and Medicare, maybe his base will realize....

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31 minutes ago, richNcincy said:

I'm so glad the impeachment mumbo-jumbo is over.  We ALL knew it would be a complete waste of time and effort.  

 

According to Rob Portman, it scared Trump into not asking for foreign interference in our elections again.


Very Stable Genius

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"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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6 hours ago, jonoh81 said:

 

That's a hell of a misrepresentation of what happened.  How did Pelosi manage to do that simply by ripping up a paper?  As for being personal, it should be personal to everyone who values the Constitution, rule of law, the office of president and our democracy.  Thoughts and prayers on the speech copy, though.  And great use of projection.

 

 

She ripped up a paper out of frustration. 

 

You apparently see that as some resistance to Trump.

 

Other's see it as a big FU to him. 

 

Regardless, if you look at it from a non-partisan lens, it was a moment where she lost her cool and was ultimately not good optics for her. She made it about her vs Trump instead of the rest of the members in her party. 

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9 hours ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

It was a very dumb move for Pelosi to tear up the speech last night.  Not even going into the respect for the office of the presidency part, she really hurt the Dems with her actions.

1) Instead of letting Trump's hyper partisan speech be the issue and attacking it for what it was, she has made her actions the focal point. (nobody cares about whether the speech contained lies anymore)

2) The Dem response was going to start where they had a chance to rebut the Trump Speech. Nobody paid attention to it, all eyes were on Pelosi and her actions. The rising stars who typically give such rebuttals received no acknowledgement and exposure.

3) After Iowa, The goal would be to turn and pivot quickly back to the candidates on the trail and put the focus on them and get them more national exposure, that did not happen.

4) Instead of working to create a narrative and an agenda, she is now playing defense for her actions, and all people want to talk about is how she tore up the speech, not what the party stands for, etc. 

5) Candidates on the trail who would have loved to have some media coverage were largely ignored because the press focused on Pelosi tearing up the speech. 

6) They showed anger and emotion and were not the sign of someone who wants to demonstrate strong leadership. It showed a little bit of being unhinged.

 

Staunch leftists may applaud her actions, but in the end they were short sighted and took the focus of those running for president and put the focus on Trump which is exactly what he would want. The more people talk about Trump, the less they talk about the Dem candidates and the harder it is for them to win. 

 

You're a champion at clutching your pearls about the most minor things that Democrats do while implicitly defending Trump while trying to convince us all that you're really not defending Trump.

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^ if you think that was defending Trump, you are nuts. That is the problem with many on the left. They feel that everything they do needs to be in resistance of Trump. No matter what he does, it must be opposed just because it is Trump. The problem is that acting in that way, it looks petty and you lose credibility. People quit paying attention to the important things because everything is a huge issue. 

 

In this case, Pelosi comes across looking very petty. She may be proud of what she did, and that is fine for her, but the optics did not look good for her. It handed Trump a talking point while at the same time taking attention away from her party and its response. That was the problem with her action. Personally, I could care less that she did it. I dont think she needs to be censured or anything like that as some people are saying, but ultimately, her response was in poor taste and did more harm than good.

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9 hours ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

She ripped up a paper out of frustration. 

 

You apparently see that as some resistance to Trump.

 

Other's see it as a big FU to him. 

 

Regardless, if you look at it from a non-partisan lens, it was a moment where she lost her cool and was ultimately not good optics for her. She made it about her vs Trump instead of the rest of the members in her party. 

 

Destroying democracy should be worse optics.  Strange how you all don't get that.

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59 minutes ago, jonoh81 said:

 

Destroying democracy should be worse optics.  Strange how you all don't get that.

 

If you want to help save "democracy" from Trump and Bernie, you cant get down in the dirt and flight on Trump's terms. History shows that when you get in the mud with Trump, you are the one who comes out looking muddy. 

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16 hours ago, Gramarye said:

They don't want Trump to have any accomplishments,

 

That's so cynical. I think the vast majority of people want whoever is in office to have accomplishments.

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1 minute ago, Robuu said:

 

That's so cynical. I think the vast majority of people want whoever is in office to have accomplishments.

 

It's always projection.  Remember Rush Limbaugh wanted Obama to fail. So those on the right think we are just like them.  It's not that I don;t want him to have accomplishments. He really doesn't have any.  When the only mention made was judicial appointments, that tells you there are no accomplishments in this presidency. Any Republican would make the same judicial appointments. 

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"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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6 minutes ago, Robuu said:

 

That's so cynical. I think the vast majority of people want whoever is in office to have accomplishments.

 

Not the kind of accomplishments Trump has, because values have diverged enough that things that conservatives see as Trump's accomplishments, liberals see as his sins that need to be rectified ASAP.

 

I've noted this before on this thread, though I would obviously forgive people for forgetting it, considering that it was around 350 pages ago:

 

 

Not much has changed in the past 2 years (though I could also now add a more impressive economic track record, a revised trade deal with our immediate neighbors, and a successful staredown with Iran), which is one reason I participate far less on this thread than I used to.

 

Yes, there are areas where Trump has not performed as hoped.  But his accomplishments, especially if you are a conservative, are considerably broader than just judges.  That being said, judicial appointments remain the elephant in the room and therefore will be mentioned first when listing his accomplishments as well as to the exclusion of others when simply identifying the highlights of his administration.  That is because it was primary judicial activism that was making it less and less safe to be a conservative, especially a religious one, in Obama's America.  And continuing the work of making the federal judiciary more protective of religious liberty is absolutely going to be central to Trump's 2020 campaign pitch as well, just as it was in 2016.

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it is odd for me to view the destruction of precedent in order to shove in as many unqualified judges as possible into the courts as an accomplishment. And if it is an accomplishment it is McConnell's and not Trump's. President Pence would make the same appointments without the temperament of a man baby. And wanton neglect of the constitution. 

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59 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

 

If you want to help save "democracy" from Trump and Bernie, you cant get down in the dirt and flight on Trump's terms. History shows that when you get in the mud with Trump, you are the one who comes out looking muddy. 

 

Another "Trump gets to break any law and do anything he wants without consequences, but everyone else has to be extra nice and play by the rules" hot take.  History actually shows that being nice to a fascist goes very badly in the long run. 

Also, I said nothing about Bernie, and despite some issues with him and his supporters, do not remotely believe he is a threat to democracy in America.  Keep your projections to yourself.

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I can't believe people are still talking about the Pelosi thing.  It was performative - much the way Trump's Presidency has been.  If you only think of politics as performative and a show, then sure...it took some of the spotlight/narrative away from Trump for a few hours.

 

Are kids still separated from their families?  Is the military budget still growing at an alarming (unnecessary) rate?  Is the planet still on fire and does our country have no plan to try to remedy that?  Are minority voters still facing a more uphill climb than white voters just to cast their vote?  Is inequality still at its highest rates since before the Great Depression?  The list goes on and on.  Pelosi gives you these small "wins" if you care about memes, gifs, and politics as a performance art.  She's mostly been ineffective on the policy front (unless I'm missing something?) in terms of combating the worst parts of a Trump Presidency.  Do you care about performance or policy?

Edited by DarkandStormy

Very Stable Genius

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1 minute ago, DarkandStormy said:

I can't believe people are still talking about the Pelosi thing.  It was performative - much the way Trump's Presidency has been.  If you only think of politics as performative and a show, then sure...it took some of the spotlight/narrative away from Trump for a few hours.

 

Are kids still separated from their families?  Is the military budget still growing at an alarming (unnecessary) rate?  Is the planet still on fire and does our country have no plan to try to remedy that?  Are minority voters still facing a more uphill climb than white voters just to cast their vote?  Is inequality still at its highest rates since before the Great Depression?  The list goes on and on.  Pelosi gives you these small "wins" if you care about memes, gifs, and politics as a performance art.  She's mostly been ineffective on the policy front (unless I'm missing something?) in terms of combating the worst parts of a Trump Presidency.  Do you care about performance or policy?

She took away Donnie's SOTU news cycle.  

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