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The Trump Presidency

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Just typing in "censorship" into the search bar and sharing some of my favorite hits here.  Yabo - it appears Gohmert's wish is coming (closer to being) true lol.


Very Stable Genius

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1 hour ago, Ram23 said:

 

Freedom of speech is a human right, if you're content letting a small handful of corporations curtail that right, you don't really believe in it. This is especially true if you're content letting them do it because you're politically aligned with their censorship.

 

The biggest threat to our dearest freedoms in the digital age is not the government.

 

Freedom of speech is not guaranteed by private companies, and it has never been without restrictions even in the public realm.  Furthermore, I think your outrage is super precious.  Trump has used Twitter to incite violence, spread lies and conspiracy theories, harass women and minorities and mentally masturbate to his imagined greatness.  Twitter has allowed it all without a single condemnation or restriction.  And they did not restrict his account even now.  They offered a virtually meaningless caveat to his usual BS and you all lose your minds.  This isn't about free speech.  It's about the perception that Trump is being personally attacked and questioned, something that must be the gravest sin in the Trump cult.

Edited by jonoh81

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I'm looking forward to conservative law professors / commentators who normally argue, "courts shouldn't defer to regulatory agencies no matter how thoughtful their process or how compelling their reasoning" now shifting to, "If the President gets really mad, he can rewrite a statute via an executive order."


Very Stable Genius

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2 hours ago, Ram23 said:

 

Freedom of speech is a human right, if you're content letting a small handful of corporations curtail that right, you don't really believe in it. This is especially true if you're content letting them do it because you're politically aligned with their censorship.

 

The biggest threat to our dearest freedoms in the digital age is not the government.

But Trump sure is trying like hell to make it so.

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2 hours ago, DarkandStormy said:

Re-posting from the censorship thread.  Is this bad?

 

Well maybe he's a better student than his school grades suggest. He has learned well from his instructors Kim, and Putin.

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3 hours ago, Ram23 said:

 

Freedom of speech is a human right, if you're content letting a small handful of corporations curtail that right, you don't really believe in it. This is especially true if you're content letting them do it because you're politically aligned with their censorship.

 

The biggest threat to our dearest freedoms in the digital age is not the government.

 

This is the most intellectually dishonest bullsh*t you've ever posted. 

 

Can you imagine if a protester went into a Chik-fil-a dining room and held up a sign that said "F*** the GOP. Abortion is a right." They would very quickly ask them to leave or call the police. By your logic, their actions are curtailing the protester's human right to free speech and, if I don't support the protester, then I don't really believe in free speech. You realize how stupid that is? 

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8 minutes ago, DEPACincy said:

 

This is the most intellectually dishonest bullsh*t you've ever posted. 

 

Can you imagine if a protester went into a Chik-fil-a dining room and held up a sign that said "F*** the GOP. Abortion is a right." They would very quickly ask them to leave or call the police. By your logic, their actions are curtailing the protester's human right to free speech and, if I don't support the protester, then I don't really believe in free speech. You realize how stupid that is? 

 

Corporations are humans, though, no? So twitter, as a corporation would hold the same right as individuals, n'est pas @ram23? 

 

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1 hour ago, YABO713 said:

 

Corporations are humans, though, no? So twitter, as a corporation would hold the same right as individuals, n'est pas @ram23? 

 

 

They have the same rights as any individual that operates a social media platform, yes.

 

There are, and should legally be, responsibilities that come along with the creation of a public commons upon which everyone in the country is able to communicate with one another. It's time to protect free speech on the internet by treating it and the platforms that make use of it like the public utilities that they are.

 

1 hour ago, DEPACincy said:

Can you imagine if a protester went into a Chik-fil-a dining room and held up a sign that said "F*** the GOP. Abortion is a right." They would very quickly ask them to leave or call the police. By your logic, their actions are curtailing the protester's human right to free speech and, if I don't support the protester, then I don't really believe in free speech. You realize how stupid that is? 

 

Chik-fil-a is a restaurant that serves chicken sandwiches, not a public free-speech platform, so that's a very bad comparison.

 

I don't really know where to begin with that one - but I suppose a fair comparison would be if Chik-fil-a were a place that existed solely as a venue for people to hold up signs, but only let right-wingers hold up signs. And there weren't really any other places you could hold up signs, at least, nowhere that folks would see them. On occasion, they'd let a few left-wingers hold up signs, but they'd put up big signs right next to them telling you they're wrong, and that that's a fact.

 

  

4 hours ago, Cleburger said:

Conservatives have every right to go start their own social media network.  Where are all the job creators?  

 

Would these essentially be "separate but equal" social media networks? I'm sure that would lead to wonderful things.

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15 minutes ago, Ram23 said:

 

I don't really know where to begin with that one - but I suppose a fair comparison would be if Chik-fil-a were a place that existed solely as a venue for people to hold up signs, but only let right-wingers hold up signs. And there weren't really any other places you could hold up signs, at least, nowhere that folks would see them.

 

This is dumb for many reasons. But the simplest one is that there are actually lots of social media networks. There are even several that are geared toward conservatives or liberals! Fancy that. 

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All of this is missing the point. Twitter didn't censor Trump's lies, they simply said the lies were lies. 

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It's very interesting that many of the same people who are now calling Twitter a "public free-speech platform" stood idly by while the Trump administration dismantled net neutrality and didn't have anything bad to say about that decision.

 

The internet itself is the actual "public commons" -- the true platform where anyone can publish their facts or opinions as a website, podcast, video, or whatever new forms of communication are invented.

 

Individual websites, podcasts, videos, and social networks that companies, organizations, or individual people put on the internet are not public space and no one has "free speech" rights on those platforms.

 

To put it another way:

  • The internet is the public street — everyone has the right to walk down the sidewalk, hold whatever protest sign they want, etc., as long as they're not breaking any laws. (Although, because of the elimination of net neutrality, this is no longer really the case.)
  • Individual websites are the houses and businesses located along those streets. They are privately owned, and the owners can make their own rules about what is allowed inside.
  • "Platforms" like YouTube, Facebook, Twitter, and the UrbanOhio forum are "faux public spaces" much like a shopping mall. They are privately owned spaces where everone is welcome, but anyone can be asked to leave by the property owner. Since the property owner isn't the government, the first amendment does not apply.

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2 hours ago, Ram23 said:

 

They have the same rights as any individual that operates a social media platform, yes.

 

There are, and should legally be, responsibilities that come along with the creation of a public commons upon which everyone in the country is able to communicate with one another. It's time to protect free speech on the internet by treating it and the platforms that make use of it like the public utilities that they are.

 

Know what I've learned in the last 3 years... I don't have to stay as limber as fellow "Conservatives" because my principles aren't molded by who's in power. 

 

A platform is not a utility. At all. I don't even know how you make that argument? Unless, of course, you're suggesting that regulating the content carried through other utilities, such as phone lines should be regulated - which would be some big brother sh**, to say the least. 

 

Face it - the President is throwing a tantrum because he was fact checked. The First Amendment exists strictly to protect against government interference of speech. Are you suggesting that Twitter is a limited public forum? 

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1 hour ago, mu2010 said:

All of this is missing the point. Twitter didn't censor Trump's lies, they simply said the lies were lies. 

More and more people should be saying this. 

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Trump and I agree: Twitter needs to go away. That sh*t has caused so much pain since its devolution; it's fundamentally broken.

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34 minutes ago, TBideon said:

Trump and I agree: Twitter needs to go away. That sh*t has caused so much pain since its devolution; it's fundamentally broken.

 

I agree. 

 

Call it elitist, but I only think access to information is a good thing when individuals are capable of distilling that information. I know it's a terrible thought, but watching people on twitter has caused me to think of others as intellectually inferior based solely off the devolution. 

 

Additionally, I'm reading a book on neurobiology and there's a blip in there about political affiliations and its correlation to IQ: Right wing authoritarian stances are correlated with the lowest IQ, with LWA coming in second. 

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On 9/6/2017 at 10:59 AM, Ram23 said:

He doesn't commit the same transgression as Obama by unconstitutionally overstepping his executive power and ordering something else, and in the end the law of the land will be crafted the way our founding fathers intended.

 


Very Stable Genius

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2 hours ago, YABO713 said:

 

I agree. 

 

Call it elitist, but I only think access to information is a good thing when individuals are capable of distilling that information. I know it's a terrible thought, but watching people on twitter has caused me to think of others as intellectually inferior based solely off the devolution. 

 

Additionally, I'm reading a book on neurobiology and there's a blip in there about political affiliations and its correlation to IQ: Right wing authoritarian stances are correlated with the lowest IQ, with LWA coming in second. 

people will be stupid with or without twitter though. 

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Trump retweets "Only good Democrat is a dead Democrat." Now this.....

 

Anti-Lockdown Protesters Now Calling for Dems to Die

https://news.yahoo.com/anti-lockdown-protesters-now-calling-073659448.html


"Nearly every problem that we have in the USA -- unaffordable health care, prison overpopulation, hyper militarization, climate change, racism, gun violence, poverty, poor education, urban sprawl and others -- cannot be positively addressed because bribery and conflicts of interest are legal under campaign finance laws which protect the uber-wealthy and the narrow self-interests who grossly benefit from our afflictions."

 

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4 hours ago, TBideon said:

Trump and I agree: Twitter needs to go away. That sh*t has caused so much pain since its devolution; it's fundamentally broken.

 

I actually think Twitter should call his bluff and threaten to shut itself down in the interest of a fair and honest election. 

 

Trump would immediately lose his sounding platform, and his $hit!  

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27 minutes ago, KJP said:

Trump retweets "Only good Democrat is a dead Democrat." Now this.....

 

Anti-Lockdown Protesters Now Calling for Dems to Die

https://news.yahoo.com/anti-lockdown-protesters-now-calling-073659448.html

 

These dummies realize that each protest against "lockdowns" make seniors distrust Republicans, right? Without senior voters the Republicans are done.

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2020 sucks

 


"Nearly every problem that we have in the USA -- unaffordable health care, prison overpopulation, hyper militarization, climate change, racism, gun violence, poverty, poor education, urban sprawl and others -- cannot be positively addressed because bribery and conflicts of interest are legal under campaign finance laws which protect the uber-wealthy and the narrow self-interests who grossly benefit from our afflictions."

 

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13 hours ago, freefourur said:

people will be stupid with or without twitter though. 


yeah. But they wouldn’t have a megaphone to the ears of other dumb people

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1 minute ago, YABO713 said:


yeah. But they wouldn’t have a megaphone to the ears of other dumb people

 

then they retreat to "conservative" social network sites and continue to blast their ignorance.  The horse is out of the barn now.

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16 hours ago, YABO713 said:

 

Know what I've learned in the last 3 years... I don't have to stay as limber as fellow "Conservatives" because my principles aren't molded by who's in power. 

 

A platform is not a utility. At all. I don't even know how you make that argument? Unless, of course, you're suggesting that regulating the content carried through other utilities, such as phone lines should be regulated - which would be some big brother sh**, to say the least. 

 

Face it - the President is throwing a tantrum because he was fact checked. The First Amendment exists strictly to protect against government interference of speech. Are you suggesting that Twitter is a limited public forum? 

 

With how many times @Ram23 is called out or found to be a hypocrite via older posts, you'd think he was attempting some form of Trump performance art. 

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16 hours ago, TBideon said:

Trump and I agree: Twitter needs to go away. That sh*t has caused so much pain since its devolution; it's fundamentally broken.

 

Trump doesn't want Twitter to go away, he just wants them to be his mouthpiece like everyone and everything else in his orbit.  He's been more than happy to use it the last several years spreading lies, racism and attacks on his perceived enemies.  Twitter is simply part of a media that refused to hold Trump accountable for anything because he was good for hits and ratings.  The few fact checks and wrist slaps from them and the rest of the media over the years have been far too little and far too late.  

Edited by jonoh81

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Over 100k Americans dead from covid-19 -> more than the number of soldiers we lost in the Vietnam War, the Persian Gulf War, Afghanistan, and the Iraq War (probably even more wars, tbh) COMBINED - and POTUS went golfing twice on Memorial Day Weekend, falsely accused a media member of murder, made false claims about vote-by-mail fraud, re-tweeted a video saying "the only good Democrat is a dead Democrat," re-tweeted Brit Hume's attempt to humiliate Joe Biden for wearing a mask, started a fight with social media companies/Twitter because Twitter had the audacity to include two fact checks on his misleading tweets, and now has insinuated he is calling in the military to shoot protestors in the street.

 

And...largely, no one cares.  Some ~40% of Americans either like this or are not appalled enough to drop their support.

 

Are you better off than four years ago?


Very Stable Genius

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There is suspicion that Trump might close his twitter account and open one on the right wing Gab.   Gab is where the people that can’t abide the rules of twitter go. He’ll probably want a deal for himself from Gab if he goes.  I don’t know if there is anything illegal about doing that.  This is obviously a very important issue for him since he is a psychopath. 

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3 minutes ago, audidave said:

There is suspicion that Trump might close his twitter account and open one on the right wing Gab.   Gab is where the people that can’t abide the rules of twitter go. He’ll probably want a deal for himself from Gab if he goes.  I don’t know if there is anything illegal about doing that.  This is obviously a very important issue for him since he is a psychopath. 

 

He won't quit Twitter.  It's his biggest megaphone.


Very Stable Genius

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I had to Wiki this "Gab" and wowzers.  Yeah, he belongs there.

 

Gab_Logo.svg


"You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers

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2 minutes ago, DarkandStormy said:

 

He won't quit Twitter.  It's his biggest megaphone.

He’s an irrational idiot so no predictions on what he will or won’t do.  I’m just saying there is an out for him.  He loves doubling down. If he can make some money he’ll feel even more of a reason for doing it. Not like twitter is paying him. If gab does then so much the better for him.  I can see him doing this and keeping the white house twitter going with reposting his crap from gab. 

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The irony of all this is twitter is being forced to deal with what our federal government is being forced to deal with. 
They are going to have to update their service agreements to deal with the abusing of norms. Trump abuses them to make himself look better on twitter and in government.  Trump needs guardrails since he is incapable of following society’s norms. 

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Quick PSA as a lawyer:

 

Please stop talking about Sec. 230 and the 1st Amendment unless you:

 

1. Have known what Sec. 230 is for more than a month

2. Know the time place and manner restrictions of the 1a. 

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Sites like gab might be repugnant but the audience is drastically smaller.

 

Things might not feel so great right now if you're against far right movements, but the fact is, many far right internet communities have been pushed off of mainstream sites in the past 2-3 years, and it's worked at weakening them. Reddit, to their credit, has been much more successful at cracking down on propaganda since 2016, even though it's still not perfect. "Deplatforming" has been effective. So yeah, Trump, go to gab. 

Edited by mu2010

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What leaders say/do.....

 

AND

AND

 

And what a leader shouldn't do/not say....

 

 


"Nearly every problem that we have in the USA -- unaffordable health care, prison overpopulation, hyper militarization, climate change, racism, gun violence, poverty, poor education, urban sprawl and others -- cannot be positively addressed because bribery and conflicts of interest are legal under campaign finance laws which protect the uber-wealthy and the narrow self-interests who grossly benefit from our afflictions."

 

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5 hours ago, jonoh81 said:

DeWine is voting for Trump in November, so he can say whatever he wants.  

 

Citation?


"Nearly every problem that we have in the USA -- unaffordable health care, prison overpopulation, hyper militarization, climate change, racism, gun violence, poverty, poor education, urban sprawl and others -- cannot be positively addressed because bribery and conflicts of interest are legal under campaign finance laws which protect the uber-wealthy and the narrow self-interests who grossly benefit from our afflictions."

 

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14 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

Citation?

 

No citation, but let's not kid ourselves.  There may be a small group of active Republicans at the state and federal level who don't support him, but DeWine is socially conservative and has long gone out of is way to avoid being critical of Trump.  There's no rational way to believe he'd support Biden or even a 3rd party candidate.

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Trump is finally getting his wish...protestors attacking CNN center in Atlanta.   Putin must be slamming vodka shots tonight celebrating his "purchase"   

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13 hours ago, jonoh81 said:

 

No citation, but let's not kid ourselves.  There may be a small group of active Republicans at the state and federal level who don't support him, but DeWine is socially conservative and has long gone out of is way to avoid being critical of Trump.  There's no rational way to believe he'd support Biden or even a 3rd party candidate.

 

It's easy to say something that can't be proven or disproven. So why even say it?


"Nearly every problem that we have in the USA -- unaffordable health care, prison overpopulation, hyper militarization, climate change, racism, gun violence, poverty, poor education, urban sprawl and others -- cannot be positively addressed because bribery and conflicts of interest are legal under campaign finance laws which protect the uber-wealthy and the narrow self-interests who grossly benefit from our afflictions."

 

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Wow. So MAGA is an entity? 

 

 


"Nearly every problem that we have in the USA -- unaffordable health care, prison overpopulation, hyper militarization, climate change, racism, gun violence, poverty, poor education, urban sprawl and others -- cannot be positively addressed because bribery and conflicts of interest are legal under campaign finance laws which protect the uber-wealthy and the narrow self-interests who grossly benefit from our afflictions."

 

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4 hours ago, KJP said:

 

It's easy to say something that can't be proven or disproven. So why even say it?

 

It's easy to say something that will likely happen.  Why does DeWine suddenly get the benefit of the doubt?  He hasn't changed into some progressive or liberal simply because he did okay the first few months of the pandemic, but you're certainly free to believe whatever you want.

I also don't recall you chastising other suppositions made all the time here, like Trump refusing to leave office if he loses.  

Edited by jonoh81

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1 hour ago, KJP said:

Wow. So MAGA is an entity? 

 

 

 

"MAGA loves the black people"   That's really creepy.  "MAGA" as an entity puts me in mind of some kind of Lovecraftian horror creature.

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