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The Trump Presidency

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^Thefts of I-Phones has increased during Obama's presidency too.  The use of computers has likely increased 1000% since Obama presidency began.  It would be good if you could show a comparison.  A naked number means absolutely nothing.  It appears that there 4 cyber attacks prior to '09 and 22 after.  It looks much different when the raw numbers are shown.  Also, the largest ever cyber attack against the U.S. took place in 2008.  I'm sure your totally unbiased source provided all the detail.

 

Additionally,  neither one of us what the government response has been to attacks but here is some intersting information:

 

Cyber attacks against China have also increased 1,000%.  What could be the reason for that?

 

1. It is also Obama's fault

2. More widespread use of computers and internet in China.

 

If you think the answer to this is also 1.  Then you are a partisan hack that should refrain from discussions related to anything of importance.

 

http://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/chinese-see-almost-1-000-percent-increase-cyber-attacks-n689466

 

What is the correct course of action for a foregin nation interfering with our election process?  I will further ask what the punishment should be for someone assisting in a foreign nations interference with an election.

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^Thefts of I-Phones has increased during Obama's presidency too.  The use of computers has likely increased 1000% since Obama presidency began.  It would be good if you could show a comparison.  A naked number means absolutely nothing.  It appears that there 4 cyber attacks prior to '09 and 22 after.  It looks much different when the raw numbers are shown.  Also, the largest ever cyber attack against the U.S. took place in 2008.  I'm sure your totally unbiased source provided all the detail.

 

Additionally,  neither one of us what the government response has been to attacks but here is some intersting information:

 

Cyber attacks against China have also increased 1,000%.  What could be the reason for that?

 

1. It is also Obama's fault

2. More widespread use of computers and internet in China.

 

If you think the answer to this is also 1.  Then you are a partisan hack that should refrain from discussions related to anything of importance.

 

http://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/chinese-see-almost-1-000-percent-increase-cyber-attacks-n689466

 

What is the correct course of action for a foregin nation interfering with our election process?  I will further ask what the punishment should be for someone assisting in a foreign nations interference with an election.

So you're still stumped as to why Obama did nothing while he was in office, but Trump is expected to do something before he's in office.  Just no answer as to why Obama was so soft on Russia (and China) hacking.

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The Chinese government orchestrated a hack effecting 18 million federal employees and Obama did nothing.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/22/politics/opm-hack-18-milliion/

 

Hopefully Trump sends a message early on that this type of action will no longer be tolerated without penalties while at the same time investing in IT upgrades (get everything off of Windows based junk) to prevent the attacks from occurring in the first place.

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^Defending Russia and blasting your own intelligence agencies isn't sending a strong message to Russia or China. Trump is already talking about lifting the sanctions.

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Neither one of us is privy to the response of the 2015 breach considering that an investigation is still ongoing.  It is still unclear if the OPM attach was state sponsored.  Unlike the recent Russian hacks where it is known.  So?  are you gonna take a crack at my questions or are you gonna keep deflecting? 

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Neither one of us is privy to the response of the 2015 breach considering that an investigation is still ongoing.  It is still unclear if the OPM attach was state sponsored.  Unlike the recent Russian hacks where it is known.  So?  are you gonna take a crack at my questions or are you gonna keep deflecting? 

You're really stumped as to why Obama has done absolutely nothing to punish other countries for cyber attacks in his 8 years in office.

 

I think I speak for all Americans when I say "please help us Trump" to at least slow down the freight train of hacking that is going on due to nearly a decade of inaction by Obama and his administration.

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As the Soviet Union devolved into the Commonwealth of Independent States, the Clinton government told Yeltsin that NATO would not expand into "their old territory". As the nineties progressed, we allowed former Warsaw Pact states Poland and  Hungary and Soviet occupied Estonia into NATO. The Russians took umbrage at this and by 1999 voted in Putin who turned their weak democracy into his dictatorship.

 

President Obama saw worsening relations with Russia. He could not speak in accomodating terms publicly because the Republicans would object. No, let me amend that: they would politicize the hell out of any accomodation. At one meeting before his reelection, President Obama told a Russian envoy that he would have more latitude after the 2012 election.

 

During that period, Secretary of State Clinton was opposing the government in Ukraine that was supported by Putin. During President Obama's second term, Putin's Yanukovich was ousted and replaced by a government who would work with the EU.  Putin wanted his own trade zone that dominated Ukraine and planned to take away Ukraine's sovereignty as he pulled them back into Russia. Putin went crazy when that did not happen and began acting against the United States per the cyber raids described above. He especially had an animus against former SOS Clinton, and schemed to damage her during her presidential campaign. He didn't think he could knock her out, but, hey, lucky shot /sarcasm. 

 

His worst imperialism after losing Yanukovich was invading Crimea with "green men" in fatigues and no insignia.

 

He purposely raided the DNC and RNC since those dinky organizations don't have the type of security a real American corporation had. He blackmailed Trump and damaged Hillary Clinton by releasing minor stories that the stupid American media hyped up beyond belief. The story about Wasserman Shultz was overblown. She did the right thing.

 

Throughout the campaign, Trump was bellowing about his close relations with Putin. Trump even called at one of his rallies for Russia to hack into the thousands of emails that Hillary Clinton kept as Secretary of State.

 

The former MI6 agent who Hillary Clinton hired to do opposition research on Trump has found all sorts of collusion with the Russians. He even hung on after November 8 to find more damning details.

 

This morning, Trump is mouthing some Putinesque propaganda that the EU is an instrument of German domination of the continent and that Trump would be just as happy if the EU dissolved. BTW, the EU was preceded by a Franco-German coal and steel trade agreement to stave off another nationalistic war. Trump is extolling that he will give the UK an exclusive trade pact with America: the guy cannot even composed three paragraphs, but he is going to lead a grand trade agreement. Sure /sarcasm

 

Now we have most of the Republican Party approving of what Trump is doing and trying to tell us that they confidently lead us into this "populist trend" of destroying our international alliances and weakening our power. They tell us that our TPP Pacific trade will be snuffed but that they are going to bring prosperity. Trump is planning to remove the sanctions placed after Russia took Crimea from Ukraine.

 

It sure looks like a coup. In any case, we are screwed. The Dow is teasing at an all time high of 2000, lol. Watch this space  :shoot:  :-(

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I went to the Detroit Auto show this weekend & met up with some friends for lunch who work in the auto industry.  One of the guys is in interior trim parts supplier sales.  He said the Trump effect is real in the auto industry.  Projects that were slated for production in Mexico are coming back out for bid here in the US because Ford or whomever is opting to keep or bring back production to the US.  I expect someone from the Trump administration will be putting numbers out soon on these job creation/save stories soon enough.

 

 

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8 titles is going to keep deflecting.  When his gotcha is answered he finds another detail.  I am done digging up responses to your whataboutisms that gave no bearing on anything.  Answer at least one of my questions

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I went to the Detroit Auto show this weekend & met up with some friends for lunch who work in the auto industry.  One of the guys is in interior trim parts supplier sales.  He said the Trump effect is real in the auto industry.  Projects that were slated for production in Mexico are coming back out for bid here in the US because Ford or whomever is opting to keep or bring back production to the US.  I expect someone from the Trump administration will be putting numbers out soon on these job creation/save stories soon enough.

 

There is no way that decisions on where to invest large amounts of capital have been made in the 6 weeks since election.  US auto eminent has been increasing for the last 8 years.  Fact

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I see that CNN is not fake news to you, 8Titles, when it suits your purposes.  Serious question.... well, at least as serious as you can ask a question on such a topic.... but can you give example of five media outlets which aren't fake news?

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I went to the Detroit Auto show this weekend & met up with some friends for lunch who work in the auto industry.  One of the guys is in interior trim parts supplier sales.  He said the Trump effect is real in the auto industry.  Projects that were slated for production in Mexico are coming back out for bid here in the US because Ford or whomever is opting to keep or bring back production to the US.  I expect someone from the Trump administration will be putting numbers out soon on these job creation/save stories soon enough.

 

There is no way that decisions on where to invest large amounts of capital have been made in the 6 weeks since election.  US auto eminent has been increasing for the last 8 years.  Fact

 

Fact?  so what are you saying?  I made that up?  or my buddy is mistaken?

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I see that CNN is not fake news to you, 8Titles, when it suits your purposes.  Serious question.... well, at least as serious as you can ask a question on such a topic.... but can you give example of five media outlets which aren't fake news?

I cited CNN on purpose so Lib's couldn't claim "fake news".  Here's a link with some reasons why Obama did nothing when the Russians paralyzed WH systems.

 

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2016/12/remember-when-the-russians-hacked-the-white-houses-computers.php

 

I was trying to take it easy on down4cle, he's been taking a thumping.

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I went to the Detroit Auto show this weekend & met up with some friends for lunch who work in the auto industry.  One of the guys is in interior trim parts supplier sales.  He said the Trump effect is real in the auto industry.  Projects that were slated for production in Mexico are coming back out for bid here in the US because Ford or whomever is opting to keep or bring back production to the US.  I expect someone from the Trump administration will be putting numbers out soon on these job creation/save stories soon enough.

 

I have no doubt. But the question will be at what cost?  Keeping those jobs here was always an option. It's all about the government's willingness to grant concessions to these big businesses. The current administration has been touting its own effect on the auto industry for years. It was one of the center pieces of the 2012 election.  It would argue (rightly or wrongly) that, without its efforts, there would be no auto industry left to revitalize. And many people "in the auto industry" would whole heartedly agree.  But that no doubt came at great cost. Sure, you can argue there was another route, but the only thing that can be certain is the route that was taken and the results that were had.

 

The other question will be how much is really just bluster and tit for tat "I'll scratch your back if you claw mine" between the Trump folks and these high ranking Corp officials who have much more to gain in a Trump presidency from a personal standpoint regardless of the fortunes of the corporation they serve. What we have seen announced so far has been far less positive than what it has been branded as being.

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I see that CNN is not fake news to you, 8Titles, when it suits your purposes.  Serious question.... well, at least as serious as you can ask a question on such a topic.... but can you give example of five media outlets which aren't fake news?

I sited CNN on purpose so Lib's couldn't claim "fake news".  Here's a link with some reasons why Obama did nothing when the Russians paralyzed WH systems.

 

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2016/12/remember-when-the-russians-hacked-the-white-houses-computers.php

 

I was trying to take it easy on down4cle, he's been taking a thumping.

 

You didn't answer the question. I would like to know, so that if I do wish to cite a source in response to something you post, it won't be dismissed as fake news. 5 outlets is all I ask. It shouldn't be that difficult.

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I see that CNN is not fake news to you, 8Titles, when it suits your purposes.  Serious question.... well, at least as serious as you can ask a question on such a topic.... but can you give example of five media outlets which aren't fake news?

I sited CNN on purpose so Lib's couldn't claim "fake news".  Here's a link with some reasons why Obama did nothing when the Russians paralyzed WH systems.

 

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2016/12/remember-when-the-russians-hacked-the-white-houses-computers.php

 

I was trying to take it easy on down4cle, he's been taking a thumping.

 

You didn't answer the question. I would like to know, so that if I do wish to cite a source in response to something you post, it won't be dismissed as fake news. 5 outlets is all I ask. It shouldn't be that difficult.

Anything with a "bc" at the end, CNN, NY Times, Boston Globe, and Washington Post would be a good list to start with.

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8 titles, again you and I ate not privy to what responses were taken.  Perhaps Obama should have been more severe in his recent response but I don't see how removing sanction and  betraying NATO makes Trump tough.  The question you keep deflecting,  what is the appropriate punishment for a foreign hostile government interfering with our democratic process? 

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the Trump effect is real in the auto industry.  Projects that were slated for production in Mexico are coming back out for bid...

The tanning bed fascist thinks he can impose tariffs, but NAFTA is in the way. GM could not produce products at a decent price point without Mexican labor, for that matter.

I have no doubt. But the question will be at what cost?  Keeping those jobs here was always an option. It's all about the government's willingness to grant concessions to these big businesses. The current administration has been touting its own effect on the auto industry for years.

Love talking about this stuff. After managed bankruptcy, GM shares were owned by the labor pension and medical funds, former creditors, and the US public. The US would have had to see GM shares rise another fifteen dollars/share to "break even". The Obama administration sold at a loss. The US treasury lost billions. Had the President not used the TARP law to bail out GM and Chrysler, the public would have had to pay more than that in unemployment benefits and other benefits like welfare and Medicaid. It was a good deal. Now we have an auto industry, its suppliers, and an electronics industry in the Midwest. Thanks, Obama !!  :clap:  :clap:  :clap:

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8 titles, again you and I ate not privy to what responses were taken.  Perhaps Obama should have been more severe in his recent response but I don't see how removing sanction and  betraying NATO makes Trump tough.  The question you keep deflecting,  what is the appropriate punishment for a foreign hostile government interfering with our democratic process? 

And again, you keep answering questions with questions.

 

You asked for a list of hacking against the US under Obama's leadership and I gave you specific examples; White House, Pentagon, and 18 million federal employees.  In all cases, Obama did nothing (which was my original question to you).

 

Now, we are supposed to pretend to think that the Russians simply releasing emails showing the DNC fixed the primary for Hillary is somehow more significant than shutting down WH systems, Pentagon systems, and stealing 18 million identities, among other hideous hacks orchestrated by the Russians and Chinese over the past 8 years?

 

The DNC and Hillary Clinton did more damage to "interfere with the democratic process" by fixing the primary, the DNC and Hillary are the real criminals here, not the messenger who simply exposed the actual crime.  Once we figure out the punishment for the DNC and Hillary for the original crime, we can then figure out the punishment for the messenger.

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I went to the Detroit Auto show this weekend & met up with some friends for lunch who work in the auto industry.  One of the guys is in interior trim parts supplier sales.  He said the Trump effect is real in the auto industry.  Projects that were slated for production in Mexico are coming back out for bid here in the US because Ford or whomever is opting to keep or bring back production to the US.  I expect someone from the Trump administration will be putting numbers out soon on these job creation/save stories soon enough.

 

But why would they do that? What is the incentive? Production in Mexico is generally much cheaper right now, so bringing it back here is going to lead to smaller profit margins or higher prices. Economically, something must give. Trump cannot simply wave a magic wand and tell companies (of all sectors) to spend more time producing in the United States. Plus there's still the age-old union versus management conflict in which Republicans generally are not on the side of the workers.

 

Unless this theory is correct (substitute Mexico or any other export economy for China), in which case, it probably does not matter because American jobs won't actually be saved or created:

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/21/upshot/the-long-term-jobs-killer-is-not-china-its-automation.html

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The Chinese government orchestrated a hack effecting 18 million federal employees and Obama did nothing.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/22/politics/opm-hack-18-milliion/

 

Hopefully Trump sends a message early on that this type of action will no longer be tolerated without penalties while at the same time investing in IT upgrades (get everything off of Windows based junk) to prevent the attacks from occurring in the first place.

 

So what do you think Obama should have done? Help topple a pro-Putin president in Ukraine? Done. Move US troops into the Baltic countries? Done. Move more troops into Poland (on top of already having one of the first emplacements of the relatively new Missile Defense Agency)? Done. Move troops or offensive weaponry into Ukraine? There is no NATO agreement with Ukraine, nor will there be one until the obscene amount of corruption is cleaned up.

 

Obama assisted Ukraine with training its troops and with foreign aid to buy new weapons on the open market (some from US or Western Europe via the Middle East). Ukraine's military is now better trained and better equipped than it was before Euromaiden. They can slow Russian forces. But let's be honest -- even during Reagan's military buildup in Western Europe, the Soviets had a huge superiority in troops and armored units that could've rolled through NATO forces with little resistance. The only thing that kept them from doing so was Reagan's buildup of nuclear forces in West Germany.

 

So barring giving tactical or strategic nuclear weapons to Ukraine (which isn't going happen) -- there is nothing Ukraine can do to stop Putin's vastly larger ground and aerial forces. They will roll across the Ukrainian countryside in a matter of weeks to surround and/or bypass Kharkiv, Poltava, Dnipropetrovsk (where my wife's mother lives), and Cherkassy (where my wife is from and where her father and brother live) on the way to Kiev to starve and bombard their cities into surrender or into a slow painful death.

 

Until NATO can be convinced that most of their aid wouldn't be pocketed by government officials and weapons sold on the black market, I would be interested to learn what else you think Obama could have and should have done in Ukraine or elsewhere in Eastern Europe.


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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I see that CNN is not fake news to you, 8Titles, when it suits your purposes.  Serious question.... well, at least as serious as you can ask a question on such a topic.... but can you give example of five media outlets which aren't fake news?

I sited CNN on purpose so Lib's couldn't claim "fake news".  Here's a link with some reasons why Obama did nothing when the Russians paralyzed WH systems.

 

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2016/12/remember-when-the-russians-hacked-the-white-houses-computers.php

 

I was trying to take it easy on down4cle, he's been taking a thumping.

 

You didn't answer the question. I would like to know, so that if I do wish to cite a source in response to something you post, it won't be dismissed as fake news. 5 outlets is all I ask. It shouldn't be that difficult.

Anything with a "bc" at the end, CNN, NY Times, Boston Globe, and Washington Post would be a good list to start with.

 

No, no.  I asked you to list five outlets that are NOT fake news. Specifically name them. Go ahead.

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^Thefts of I-Phones has increased during Obama's presidency too.  The use of computers has likely increased 1000% since Obama presidency began.  It would be good if you could show a comparison.  A naked number means absolutely nothing.  It appears that there 4 cyber attacks prior to '09 and 22 after.  It looks much different when the raw numbers are shown.  Also, the largest ever cyber attack against the U.S. took place in 2008.  I'm sure your totally unbiased source provided all the detail.

 

Additionally,  neither one of us what the government response has been to attacks but here is some intersting information:

 

Cyber attacks against China have also increased 1,000%.  What could be the reason for that?

 

1. It is also Obama's fault

2. More widespread use of computers and internet in China.

 

If you think the answer to this is also 1.  Then you are a partisan hack that should refrain from discussions related to anything of importance.

 

http://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/chinese-see-almost-1-000-percent-increase-cyber-attacks-n689466

 

What is the correct course of action for a foregin nation interfering with our election process?  I will further ask what the punishment should be for someone assisting in a foreign nations interference with an election.

So you're still stumped as to why Obama did nothing while he was in office, but Trump is expected to do something before he's in office.  Just no answer as to why Obama was so soft on Russia (and China) hacking.

 

Why is your default position that the Obama administration did nothing, i.e. that is didn't care about hacking?  Just because you don't know what the response was doesn't mean there was no response.  It would be completely ridiculous to believe that the government simply completely rolled over under Obama to foreign hacking.

 

Further, how is any of this an actual defense for what happened with Trump?  You seem to be using your assumption regarding an Obama failure to tacitly defend Russia's hacking to help your boy Trump.  If so, why would it even matter to you if Obama failed if you couldn't care less about it now because it helped someone you support?  You know what that's called? Being a hack.  It's the kind of horrendously awful logic that Trumpers engage in daily to justify supporting everything from racism to treason. 

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More deflection.  I addressed your question.    Please answer mine. 

You have not answered any of my questions.

 

My answer to you is when we determine the punishment for the DNC and the HRC campaign for "interfering with the democratic process" by fixing the primary, we can figure out the punishment for Russia for the secondary crime of exposing the actual crime.  That is my answer.

 

Now, what should the crime be for the DNC and the HRC campaign for interfering with the democratic process?

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I see that CNN is not fake news to you, 8Titles, when it suits your purposes.  Serious question.... well, at least as serious as you can ask a question on such a topic.... but can you give example of five media outlets which aren't fake news?

I sited CNN on purpose so Lib's couldn't claim "fake news".  Here's a link with some reasons why Obama did nothing when the Russians paralyzed WH systems.

 

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2016/12/remember-when-the-russians-hacked-the-white-houses-computers.php

 

I was trying to take it easy on down4cle, he's been taking a thumping.

 

You didn't answer the question. I would like to know, so that if I do wish to cite a source in response to something you post, it won't be dismissed as fake news. 5 outlets is all I ask. It shouldn't be that difficult.

Anything with a "bc" at the end, CNN, NY Times, Boston Globe, and Washington Post would be a good list to start with.

 

No, no.  I asked you to list five outlets that are NOT fake news. Specifically name them. Go ahead.

Literally anything but the one's I listed??  Throw the USA Today into that bucket as well.

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I went to the Detroit Auto show this weekend & met up with some friends for lunch who work in the auto industry.  One of the guys is in interior trim parts supplier sales.  He said the Trump effect is real in the auto industry.  Projects that were slated for production in Mexico are coming back out for bid here in the US because Ford or whomever is opting to keep or bring back production to the US.  I expect someone from the Trump administration will be putting numbers out soon on these job creation/save stories soon enough.

 

Almost all of these decisions were made before Trump came into office, and all of the auto companies have stated publicly that Trump had nothing to do with any of it. 

 

It's interesting, though, that Trumpers are so desperate to find some kind of win with this man that they think a few thousand jobs makes a national economy.  If manufacturing doesn't return to 1950-1970 heyday levels, Trump will have failed because that is what he promised.  And of course, there is a 100% chance he is going to fail on that.  As for the national and global economies, lol... we're so f*****.

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But let's be honest -- even during Reagan's military buildup in Western Europe, the Soviets had a huge superiority in troops and armored units that could've rolled through NATO forces with little resistance. The only thing that kept them from doing so was Reagan's buildup of nuclear forces in West Germany.

 

I’m not so sure about that, once the M1 Abrams and A-10 Warthog were deployed in significant enough numbers to make a difference.  Soviet tanks weren’t as reliable and perhaps more importantly, their enlisted troops weren’t as well trained and their officers didn’t have as much flexibility.  Their logistics also were subpar, and quite vulnerable to interdiction by partisans and special forces. 

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So that's the criticism you all want to go with? If you see that as valid criticism, you must also dismiss pretty much every presidential speech and statement ever made, right? When's the last time a president actually wrote all of that stuff on their own?

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Of course Trump didn't write that Tweet. If he did it would have probably said something about how MLK Jr. was a Republican (this is among the favorite lies that conservatives parrot) and that he'd be very disappointed in John Lewis for whatever reason. I think the Trump team knew that they couldn't let him write a politicizing Tweet on this day, so they just took it over.

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More deflection.  I addressed your question.    Please answer mine. 

You have not answered any of my questions.

 

My answer to you is when we determine the punishment for the DNC and the HRC campaign for "interfering with the democratic process" by fixing the primary, we can figure out the punishment for Russia for the secondary crime of exposing the actual crime.  That is my answer.

 

Now, what should the crime be for the DNC and the HRC campaign for interfering with the democratic process?

 

Another deflection. 

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Is it a tweet?  Looks more like a FB post. Remember, Twitter has a strict character limit.

 

A tweet from The Donald himself would've read something like - "MLK.  Great guy.  The best. Took a real tough stand by refusing to move to the back of that bus in Little Rock.  Would be ashamed of Jerk Off John Lewis if he hadn't been killed by terrorist org Nation of Islam. Very sad."

 

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