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OMG... I got:

 

Hillary Clinton is plotting with Liberal college professors to impose Sharia Law.

 

I think that's actually one of the conspiracy theories out there lol!

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^^^^ I know this post is intended as a joke, but unfortunately several of the possible results will, in time, very likely turn out to be true.

 

I'd do a quick napkin calculation to determine what the exact odds are, but I don't want to trigger an offshoot of that "statistics" thread to discuss the finer points of combinations and permutations - so I'll just leave it at this.

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Alex Jones

Is plotting with

the supplement industry and water purification start-ups

To orchestrate an attack on your bank account

 

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Alex Jones

Is plotting with

the supplement industry and water purification start-ups

To orchestrate an attack on your bank account

 

 

I stand corrected.  Ram was right.  At least one of these was going to end up true.

 

EDIT - G**D*** it lol


Very Stable Genius

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Alex Jones has been spreading wacko conspiracy theories for years, including his claim that the Sandy Hook school shooting was faked, that the US government did the Oklahoma City bombing and 9/11, etc. Now, his YouTube channel has been suspended because of his attacks on the victims of the Parkland school shooting, and he's begging for their forgiveness in order to get his channel reinstated.

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That's hilarious.

 

Honestly, Alex Jones was onto something in the early 2000s before he turned into a complete nut bar. That gave him some credibility to start out with.

 

It was pretty obvious to a lot of people just how crazy he was, when he started talking about Sandy Hook being fake, using 'crisis actors' on the news and whatnot. I think he even blamed it on Obama and accused it of being a 'false flag operation' carried out as a pretext for his administration to take our guns away. That same tactic is used by their team every time there's a mass shooting, minus Obama, obviously. It's always the globalists, anti-fa, Muslims, or George Soros that is behind it. There's always paid, crisis actors. There couldn't have just been a crazy person who had no business getting guns as easily as they did.

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After a year of investigation there is still more evidence the DNC had that dude whacked than Putin and Trump colluded.

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

 

Yeah, he had the secret to the pizza code. 

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After a year of investigation there is still more evidence the DNC had that dude whacked than Putin and Trump colluded.

 

C'mon...like freefourur said multiple indictments.

 

 

Edit:

 

Trump supporters can never explain this...why was Manafort, a man with lots of shady Russian contacts, campaign manager? Why was Carter Page, considered a Russian asset by the FBI, part of the campaign? Why did everyone on Trump's campaign  always forget/lie about meetings with Russians?

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Not a Trump supporter, I'm just not desperately trying to deligitimize the President because of my personal dislike for him or my ideological leanings. I don't support the abuse of government agencies and this investigation is absolutely an abuse.

 

Literally the only meeting with a Russian that had anything to do with the campaign was a setup with Trump Jr., a certified moron, and nothing came of it. Everything else reeks of desperate basement redstringing.

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After a year of investigation there is still more evidence the DNC had that dude whacked than Putin and Trump colluded.

 

UO has a strict no trolling policy.


Very Stable Genius

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I guess that hit a little close to home for some. Lol.

 

Guy, he's getting very close to blowing open the pizza gate story.  We better cover our tracks.

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Not a Trump supporter, I'm just not desperately trying to deligitimize the President because of my personal dislike for him or my ideological leanings. I don't support the abuse of government agencies and this investigation is absolutely an abuse.

 

Literally the only meeting with a Russian that had anything to do with the campaign was a setup with Trump Jr., a certified moron, and nothing came of it. Everything else reeks of desperate basement redstringing.

 

Special counsel Robert Mueller’s team has either indicted or gotten guilty pleas from 19 people and three companies so far — with most of those being announced just in the past few weeks.

 

That group is composed of four former Trump advisers, 13 Russian nationals, three Russian companies, one California man, and one London-based lawyer. Five of these people have already pleaded guilty — the latest being former Trump campaign staffer Rick Gates, who signed a plea deal and committed to cooperate with Mueller’s investigation.

 

Yeah, sounds like abuse.  /s

 

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-russia-investigation-is-moving-really-freaking-fast/

 

Our analysis of special counsel probes in the modern era, starting in 1979, puts Mueller’s investigation in select company for producing criminal charges at all — a majority of the investigations over the past four decades ended without charges being filed against anyone.

 

The total number of individuals charged in the investigation is now up to 18, including an indictment and two guilty pleas from last fall. One of the defendants from last fall, Rick Gates, is reportedly finalizing a plea deal, which would signal that he’s ready to cooperate with the investigation.

 

Historically, major special counsel investigations that have led to charges have lasted for years, with indictments and guilty pleas trickling out as an inquiry gains momentum. So more charges seem likely to come.

 

^That was back from Feb. 16th, hence the discrepancy in the number of indictments.

 

Were the investigations into Mike Espy, Henry Cisneros, Alexis Herman, and Valerie Plame all "abuse of government agencies?"  They had produced zero indictments or guilty pleas at this stage (less than a year) of the investigation.


Very Stable Genius

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I guess that hit a little close to home for some. Lol.

 

Guy, he's getting very close to blowing open the pizza gate story.  We better cover our tracks.

 

Definitely a bit close

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Not a Trump supporter, I'm just not desperately trying to deligitimize the President because of my personal dislike for him or my ideological leanings. I don't support the abuse of government agencies and this investigation is absolutely an abuse.

 

Literally the only meeting with a Russian that had anything to do with the campaign was a setup with Trump Jr., a certified moron, and nothing came of it. Everything else reeks of desperate basement redstringing.

 

Special counsel Robert Mueller’s team has either indicted or gotten guilty pleas from 19 people and three companies so far — with most of those being announced just in the past few weeks.

 

That group is composed of four former Trump advisers, 13 Russian nationals, three Russian companies, one California man, and one London-based lawyer. Five of these people have already pleaded guilty — the latest being former Trump campaign staffer Rick Gates, who signed a plea deal and committed to cooperate with Mueller’s investigation.

 

Yeah, sounds like abuse.  /s

 

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-russia-investigation-is-moving-really-freaking-fast/

 

Our analysis of special counsel probes in the modern era, starting in 1979, puts Mueller’s investigation in select company for producing criminal charges at all — a majority of the investigations over the past four decades ended without charges being filed against anyone.

 

The total number of individuals charged in the investigation is now up to 18, including an indictment and two guilty pleas from last fall. One of the defendants from last fall, Rick Gates, is reportedly finalizing a plea deal, which would signal that he’s ready to cooperate with the investigation.

 

Historically, major special counsel investigations that have led to charges have lasted for years, with indictments and guilty pleas trickling out as an inquiry gains momentum. So more charges seem likely to come.

 

^That was back from Feb. 16th, hence the discrepancy in the number of indictments.

 

Were the investigations into Mike Espy, Henry Cisneros, Alexis Herman, and Valerie Plame all "abuse of government agencies?"  They had produced zero indictments or guilty pleas at this stage (less than a year) of the investigation.

 

A year is a hell of a long time to investigate this. They spent what 3 mlnths investigation Benghazi and the Democrats acted like it was an affront to God himself. Still, even with a year of turning over every rock thrice, they have found nothing like links the President to Putin for collusion. Nothing. And that was the purpose of the investigation. It has since spiraled out to Facebook ads and Russian nationals who were basically trolling both sides in real life during their campaigns. It's a farce and an abuse.

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Not a Trump supporter, I'm just not desperately trying to deligitimize the President because of my personal dislike for him or my ideological leanings. I don't support the abuse of government agencies and this investigation is absolutely an abuse.

 

Literally the only meeting with a Russian that had anything to do with the campaign was a setup with Trump Jr., a certified moron, and nothing came of it. Everything else reeks of desperate basement redstringing.

 

Special counsel Robert Mueller’s team has either indicted or gotten guilty pleas from 19 people and three companies so far — with most of those being announced just in the past few weeks.

 

That group is composed of four former Trump advisers, 13 Russian nationals, three Russian companies, one California man, and one London-based lawyer. Five of these people have already pleaded guilty — the latest being former Trump campaign staffer Rick Gates, who signed a plea deal and committed to cooperate with Mueller’s investigation.

 

Yeah, sounds like abuse.  /s

 

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-russia-investigation-is-moving-really-freaking-fast/

 

Our analysis of special counsel probes in the modern era, starting in 1979, puts Mueller’s investigation in select company for producing criminal charges at all — a majority of the investigations over the past four decades ended without charges being filed against anyone.

 

The total number of individuals charged in the investigation is now up to 18, including an indictment and two guilty pleas from last fall. One of the defendants from last fall, Rick Gates, is reportedly finalizing a plea deal, which would signal that he’s ready to cooperate with the investigation.

 

Historically, major special counsel investigations that have led to charges have lasted for years, with indictments and guilty pleas trickling out as an inquiry gains momentum. So more charges seem likely to come.

 

^That was back from Feb. 16th, hence the discrepancy in the number of indictments.

 

Were the investigations into Mike Espy, Henry Cisneros, Alexis Herman, and Valerie Plame all "abuse of government agencies?"  They had produced zero indictments or guilty pleas at this stage (less than a year) of the investigation.

 

A year is a hell of a long time to investigate this. They spent what 3 mlnths investigation Benghazi and the Democrats acted like it was an affront to God himself. Still, even with a year of turning over every rock thrice, they have found nothing like links the President to Putin for collusion. Nothing. And that was the purpose of the investigation. It has since spiraled out to Facebook ads and Russian nationals who were basically trolling both sides in real life during their campaigns. It's a farce and an abuse.

 

Prosecutors in an ongoing investigation don't tell what they have, so we don't know if nothing hasn't been found.

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Please. If they had Trump we'd know about it.

 

You don't get to whine about right wing conspiracies then act all indignant when your own are challenged or mocked.

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Not a Trump supporter, I'm just not desperately trying to deligitimize the President because of my personal dislike for him or my ideological leanings. I don't support the abuse of government agencies and this investigation is absolutely an abuse.

 

Literally the only meeting with a Russian that had anything to do with the campaign was a setup with Trump Jr., a certified moron, and nothing came of it. Everything else reeks of desperate basement redstringing.

 

Special counsel Robert Mueller’s team has either indicted or gotten guilty pleas from 19 people and three companies so far — with most of those being announced just in the past few weeks.

 

That group is composed of four former Trump advisers, 13 Russian nationals, three Russian companies, one California man, and one London-based lawyer. Five of these people have already pleaded guilty — the latest being former Trump campaign staffer Rick Gates, who signed a plea deal and committed to cooperate with Mueller’s investigation.

 

Yeah, sounds like abuse.  /s

 

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-russia-investigation-is-moving-really-freaking-fast/

 

Our analysis of special counsel probes in the modern era, starting in 1979, puts Mueller’s investigation in select company for producing criminal charges at all — a majority of the investigations over the past four decades ended without charges being filed against anyone.

 

The total number of individuals charged in the investigation is now up to 18, including an indictment and two guilty pleas from last fall. One of the defendants from last fall, Rick Gates, is reportedly finalizing a plea deal, which would signal that he’s ready to cooperate with the investigation.

 

Historically, major special counsel investigations that have led to charges have lasted for years, with indictments and guilty pleas trickling out as an inquiry gains momentum. So more charges seem likely to come.

 

^That was back from Feb. 16th, hence the discrepancy in the number of indictments.

 

Were the investigations into Mike Espy, Henry Cisneros, Alexis Herman, and Valerie Plame all "abuse of government agencies?"  They had produced zero indictments or guilty pleas at this stage (less than a year) of the investigation.

 

A year is a hell of a long time to investigate this. They spent what 3 mlnths investigation Benghazi and the Democrats acted like it was an affront to God himself. Still, even with a year of turning over every rock thrice, they have found nothing like links the President to Putin for collusion. Nothing. And that was the purpose of the investigation. It has since spiraled out to Facebook ads and Russian nationals who were basically trolling both sides in real life during their campaigns. It's a farce and an abuse.

 

1) You didn't answer the question about other investigations.

2) Again...19 guilty pleas and indictments

3) Facts matter...the Benghazi investigations lasted 17 months and produced nothing.  Mueller has been investigating for less than 10 months and has produced 19 indictments and guilty pleas so far.


Very Stable Genius

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Please. If they had Trump we'd know about it.

 

You do understand these things don't happen overnight, right?  Look at literally any other investigation in U.S. history.


Very Stable Genius

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Not a Trump supporter, I'm just not desperately trying to deligitimize the President because of my personal dislike for him or my ideological leanings. I don't support the abuse of government agencies and this investigation is absolutely an abuse.

 

Literally the only meeting with a Russian that had anything to do with the campaign was a setup with Trump Jr., a certified moron, and nothing came of it. Everything else reeks of desperate basement redstringing.

 

Special counsel Robert Mueller’s team has either indicted or gotten guilty pleas from 19 people and three companies so far — with most of those being announced just in the past few weeks.

 

That group is composed of four former Trump advisers, 13 Russian nationals, three Russian companies, one California man, and one London-based lawyer. Five of these people have already pleaded guilty — the latest being former Trump campaign staffer Rick Gates, who signed a plea deal and committed to cooperate with Mueller’s investigation.

 

Yeah, sounds like abuse.  /s

 

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-russia-investigation-is-moving-really-freaking-fast/

 

Our analysis of special counsel probes in the modern era, starting in 1979, puts Mueller’s investigation in select company for producing criminal charges at all — a majority of the investigations over the past four decades ended without charges being filed against anyone.

 

The total number of individuals charged in the investigation is now up to 18, including an indictment and two guilty pleas from last fall. One of the defendants from last fall, Rick Gates, is reportedly finalizing a plea deal, which would signal that he’s ready to cooperate with the investigation.

 

Historically, major special counsel investigations that have led to charges have lasted for years, with indictments and guilty pleas trickling out as an inquiry gains momentum. So more charges seem likely to come.

 

^That was back from Feb. 16th, hence the discrepancy in the number of indictments.

 

Were the investigations into Mike Espy, Henry Cisneros, Alexis Herman, and Valerie Plame all "abuse of government agencies?"  They had produced zero indictments or guilty pleas at this stage (less than a year) of the investigation.

 

A year is a hell of a long time to investigate this. They spent what 3 mlnths investigation Benghazi and the Democrats acted like it was an affront to God himself. Still, even with a year of turning over every rock thrice, they have found nothing like links the President to Putin for collusion. Nothing. And that was the purpose of the investigation. It has since spiraled out to Facebook ads and Russian nationals who were basically trolling both sides in real life during their campaigns. It's a farce and an abuse.

 

1) You didn't answer the question about other investigations.

2) Again...19 guilty pleas and indictments

3) Facts matter...the Benghazi investigations lasted 17 months and produced nothing.  Mueller has been investigating for less than 10 months and has produced 19 indictments and guilty pleas so far.

 

1. I don't care about other investigations. Focus on this one.

 

2. Guilty pleas and indictments in a circus.

 

3. Benghazi is technically still being investigated but the important part for this discussion did not last nearly a year and a half. And I would say the fact there were no indictments is more proof of corruption than anything. That just seems highly implausible to anyone who wasn't hoping for that outcome.

 

Regardless of all this,  my main criticism here is the wholesale acceptance of left wing conspiracies vs the wholesale rejection of right wing ones. Both asided sre equally ridiculous to me and a waste of time. Of course those on the right and left will always find justifications for their theories.

 

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^ Why is Benghazi still being investigated.  If they don;t find anything right away then there is nothing there.  Those are the new rules for investigations according to Mike in Canton.  If I am ever being investigated, I will give Law enforcement on 10 months to figure it all out even if if all my accomplices have already pleaded guilty. 

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^ Why is Benghazi still being investigated.  If they don;t find anything right away then there is nothing there.  Those are the new rules for investigations according to Mike in Canton.  If I am ever being investigated, I will give Law enforcement on 10 months to figure it all out even if if all my accomplices have already pleaded guilty. 

 

I don't know. Can you tell me? You seem to be the expert on government investigations.

 

Length isn't the issue itself. It's the length of this investigation given where it has gone. The fact that long ago it moved away from investigating Trump directly to trying to find anything at all that could link anyone to Russia even vaguely linked to Trump.

 

To me, the most important thing we've learned from this is that the Russians clearly played no favorites and were simply interested in creating chaos in our political system. It couldn't have worked out any better.

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The fact that long ago it moved away from investigating Trump directly to trying to find anything at all that could link anyone to Russia even vaguely linked to Trump.

 

 

That's kind of how a conspiracy works. "Links", and such.

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^ That is actually not the finding of the intelligence community at all.  The finding is that Russia attacked the US to benefit Trump.  This is the Trump administration determination.  If you don't know the basics, you don't know the details.  Come back after you know what you are talking about.

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Length isn't the issue itself. It's the length of this investigation given where it has gone. The fact that long ago it moved away from investigating Trump directly to trying to find anything at all that could link anyone to Russia even vaguely linked to Trump.

 

You have no idea where it's going.  Stuff is trickling out MONTHS after the fact in some cases.

 

This is how investigations of this magnitude work.  Look up any investigation into the mob, gangs, etc.  They start low and work their way up the chain.


Very Stable Genius

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Length isn't the issue itself. It's the length of this investigation given where it has gone. The fact that long ago it moved away from investigating Trump directly to trying to find anything at all that could link anyone to Russia even vaguely linked to Trump.

 

You have no idea where it's going.  Stuff is trickling out MONTHS after the fact in some cases.

 

This is how investigations of this magnitude work.  Look up any investigation into the mob, gangs, etc.  They start low and work their way up the chain.

 

Without saying too much, we have represent a cooperating witness in a local corruption case... it's been 17 months so far.

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Length isn't the issue itself. It's the length of this investigation given where it has gone. The fact that long ago it moved away from investigating Trump directly to trying to find anything at all that could link anyone to Russia even vaguely linked to Trump.

 

You have no idea where it's going.  Stuff is trickling out MONTHS after the fact in some cases.

 

This is how investigations of this magnitude work.  Look up any investigation into the mob, gangs, etc.  They start low and work their way up the chain.

 

Without saying too much, we have represent a cooperating witness in a local corruption case... it's been 17 months so far.

 

Time to wrap it up.  That's too long to investigate something.

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The fact that long ago it moved away from investigating Trump directly to trying to find anything at all that could link anyone to Russia even vaguely linked to Trump.

 

 

That's kind of how a conspiracy works. "Links", and such.

 

tumblr_o16n2kBlpX1ta3qyvo1_1280.jpg

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I don't know. Can you tell me? You seem to be the expert on government investigations.

 

Length isn't the issue itself. It's the length of this investigation given where it has gone. The fact that long ago it moved away from investigating Trump directly to trying to find anything at all that could link anyone to Russia even vaguely linked to Trump.

 

To me, the most important thing we've learned from this is that the Russians clearly played no favorites and were simply interested in creating chaos in our political system. It couldn't have worked out any better.

 

Hey MikeInCanton[/member] welcome! Since I believe this is the first interaction I've had with you.

 

A couple things:

 

- Think of federal investigations as a pine tree. They start at the bottom, and work their way upwards, often going WAY out on branches. The moves to the branches are made to obtain leverage that will allow them to move up the tree. We've represented people where this has turned into a suppression issue in court, and sometimes we've won - nonetheless, that's how these tend to work. Mueller's interview patterns are pretty typical to what any AUSA would do.

 

- The records of some meetings are beginning to indicate that Russia did have a favorite. Notably, this most recent Seychelles meeting. However, as I always say, I think Hillary could've overcome it if she was simply a better candidate. Where issues are going to manifest themselves are in the leverage the Russian government used on some campaign officials like Page and Manafort - but we shall see.

 

Like I said, nice to have you on the board!

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^ That is actually not the finding of the intelligence community at all.  The finding is that Russia attacked the US to benefit Trump.  This is the Trump administration determination.  If you don't know the basics, you don't know the details.  Come back after you know what you are talking about.

 

That is the finding. The Russians did a variety things to provoke both sides. The fact is if Hillary were elected, the same investigation could happen and be just as close to linking her to the Russians. Because that's how the Russians played it.

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^ That is actually not the finding of the intelligence community at all.  The finding is that Russia attacked the US to benefit Trump.  This is the Trump administration determination.  If you don't know the basics, you don't know the details.  Come back after you know what you are talking about.

 

That is the finding. The Russians did a variety things to provoke both sides. The fact is if Hillary were elected, the same investigation could happen and be just as close to linking her to the Russians. Because that's how the Russians played it.

 

Hillary had multiple meetings with Russians and a campaign manager with shady Russian contacts? They released Trump's tax returns through Wikileaks?

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^ That is actually not the finding of the intelligence community at all.  The finding is that Russia attacked the US to benefit Trump.  This is the Trump administration determination.  If you don't know the basics, you don't know the details.  Come back after you know what you are talking about.

 

That is the finding. The Russians did a variety things to provoke both sides. The fact is if Hillary were elected, the same investigation could happen and be just as close to linking her to the Russians. Because that's how the Russians played it.

 

They did disseminate false information to Sanders and Stein Supporters as well. However, the bulk of the product from "fake news farms" favored President Trump.

 

I think what most Trump supporters just have to come to terms with is that two things can be true: 1. He was legitimately elected president. Period. and 2. Putin saw him as the candidate that would destablilize Western democracies and decided to give extra support.

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There's a difference between branching out an investigation and desperately trying to find anything to dethrone someone you despise. They can look similar but they're not. If the investigation has moved away from Trump and on to other things that have nothing to do with him, like Russian nationals hosting rallies for both sides, then it should be closed. 

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There's a difference between branching out an investigation and desperately trying to find anything to dethrone someone you despise. They can look similar but they're not. If the investigation has moved away from Trump and on to other things that have nothing to do with him, like Russian nationals hosting rallies for both sides, then it should be closed. 

 

Mike, I don't mean to be rude, so please don't take it that way. But I think you just have a misunderstanding of how Federal investigations work.

 

Secondly, there is nothing that can suggest Robert Mueller has led the investigation with anything but objectivity. He's a life-long Republican, appointed by a Republican, who immediately fired a member of the team who made his bias against Trump known.

 

Furthermore, assuming there are issues in how evidence was gathered, and bias was shown, then the evidence will be suppressed in court upon motion from defense counsel.

 

The "my son was cut from the JV team because the coach hated him" excuse usually doesn't fly in these caliber of investigations.

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^ That is actually not the finding of the intelligence community at all.  The finding is that Russia attacked the US to benefit Trump.  This is the Trump administration determination.  If you don't know the basics, you don't know the details.  Come back after you know what you are talking about.

 

That is the finding. The Russians did a variety things to provoke both sides. The fact is if Hillary were elected, the same investigation could happen and be just as close to linking her to the Russians. Because that's how the Russians played it.

 

They did disseminate false information to Sanders and Stein Supporters as well. However, the bulk of the product from "fake news farms" favored President Trump.

 

I think what most Trump supporters just have to come to terms with is that two things can be true: 1. He was legitimately elected president. Period. and 2. Putin saw him as the candidate that would destablilize Western democracies and decided to give extra support.

 

This doesn't make any sense at all. Trump is much more nationalist, pro-military spending, and protectionist while Hillary was a globalization, open borders advocate.

 

If you we're on the outside and looking to back someone who had more harmful policies to American or Western society, it would be Hillary, easily. If Putin wanted nothing more than to see the West fall, he'd be supporting all the promoters of migration of poor and illegal Latin Americans into the US or all the Africans and Middle Easterners into the EU. He certainly wouldn't support the candidates who would make those things more difficult.

 

Leftists and NeverTrumpers have to come to terms with the fact the Russians 1. Aren't that powerful 2. Are using what small means that have to stir chaos 3. Do  it favor any particular side when doing so

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^ That is actually not the finding of the intelligence community at all.  The finding is that Russia attacked the US to benefit Trump.  This is the Trump administration determination.  If you don't know the basics, you don't know the details.  Come back after you know what you are talking about.

 

That is the finding. The Russians did a variety things to provoke both sides. The fact is if Hillary were elected, the same investigation could happen and be just as close to linking her to the Russians. Because that's how the Russians played it.

 

They did disseminate false information to Sanders and Stein Supporters as well. However, the bulk of the product from "fake news farms" favored President Trump.

 

I think what most Trump supporters just have to come to terms with is that two things can be true: 1. He was legitimately elected president. Period. and 2. Putin saw him as the candidate that would destablilize Western democracies and decided to give extra support.

 

This doesn't make any sense at all. Trump is much more nationalist, pro-military spending, and protectionist while Hillary was a globalization, open borders advocate.

 

If you we're on the outside and looking to back someone who had more harmful policies to American or Western society, it would be Hillary, easily. If Putin wanted nothing more than to see the West fall, he'd be supporting all the permitters od migration of poor and illegal Latin American immigrants into the US or all the Africans and Middle Easterners into the EU. He certainly wouldn't support the candidate who would make those things more difficult.

 

Leftists and NeverTrumpers have to come to terms with the fact the Russians 1. Aren't that powerful 2. Are using what small means that have to stir chaos 3. Do  it favor any particular side when doing so

 

Perhaps you have a poor understanding of what is better for the country. 

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^ That is actually not the finding of the intelligence community at all.  The finding is that Russia attacked the US to benefit Trump.  This is the Trump administration determination.  If you don't know the basics, you don't know the details.  Come back after you know what you are talking about.

 

That is the finding. The Russians did a variety things to provoke both sides. The fact is if Hillary were elected, the same investigation could happen and be just as close to linking her to the Russians. Because that's how the Russians played it.

 

They did disseminate false information to Sanders and Stein Supporters as well. However, the bulk of the product from "fake news farms" favored President Trump.

 

I think what most Trump supporters just have to come to terms with is that two things can be true: 1. He was legitimately elected president. Period. and 2. Putin saw him as the candidate that would destablilize Western democracies and decided to give extra support.

 

This doesn't make any sense at all. Trump is much more nationalist, pro-military spending, and protectionist while Hillary was a globalization, open borders advocate.

 

If you we're on the outside and looking to back someone who had more harmful policies to American or Western society, it would be Hillary, easily. If Putin wanted nothing more than to see the West fall, he'd be supporting all the permitters od migration of poor and illegal Latin American immigrants into the US or all the Africans and Middle Easterners into the EU. He certainly wouldn't support the candidate who would make those things more difficult.

 

Leftists and NeverTrumpers have to come to terms with the fact the Russians 1. Aren't that powerful 2. Are using what small means that have to stir chaos 3. Do  it favor any particular side when doing so

 

Perhaps you have a poor understanding of what is better for the country. 

 

Or perhaps you do

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MikeInCanton[/member] I'm not a leftist. I'm a staunch Conservative. I belong to the NRA and the Federalist Society.

 

You're right to assert that Russia is not powerful, that's why they've turned to destablization campaigns.

 

Further, Hillary is a globalist and a lousy candidate. Nonetheless, she would've stuck to a strong NATO alliance and would've sought to strengthen TPP and EU-US trade cooperation. This would've been to the exclusion of Russia. With trade incentives with the US in place, countries like Ukraine, Moldova, Bulgaria, et. al would be more inclined to join the EU. As it stands now, the EU's relationship with the US is tenuous at best, the NATO alliance is weakened, and China has been free to create its own free trade agreements with ASEAN nations. Russia has also opened up trade with agreements with several European, non-EU nations, and now has substantial influence over their respective economic decisions.

 

It's brilliant by the Kremlin, really. Though, I don't believe their influence in Austria and Italy is as significant as some play it off to be.

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MikeInCanton[/member] I'm not a leftist. I'm a staunch Conservative. I belong to the NRA and the Federalist Society.

 

You're right to assert that Russia is not powerful, that's why they've turned to destablization campaigns.

 

Further, Hillary is a globalist and a lousy candidate. Nonetheless, she would've stuck to a strong NATO alliance and would've sought to strengthen TPP and EU-US trade cooperation. This would've been to the exclusion of Russia. With trade incentives with the US in place, countries like Ukraine, Moldova, Bulgaria, et. al would be more inclined to join the EU. As it stands now, the EU's relationship with the US is tenuous at best, the NATO alliance is weakened, and China has been free to create its own free trade agreements with ASEAN nations. Russia has also opened up trade with agreements with several European, non-EU nations, and now has substantial influence over their respective economic decisions.

 

It's brilliant by the Kremlin, really. Though, I don't believe their influence in Austria and Italy is as significant as some play it off to be.

 

Remember Trump was running a campaign on destroying NATO and being friends with Russia.  Who would Putin prefer?  His puppet or a (((globalist)))

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^It's a little more nuanced than that...

 

I actually think I am spot on here.  Trump talked about his love Putin all the time and his campaigned was being run by a Putin stooge. 

 

I love when Trump "accidentally" share Israeli intel with the Russian ambassador.  That was hilarious.  He is either a puppet or stupid, maybe both.

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