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Cincinnati: Downtown: 1010 On The Rhine / Downtown Kroger

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2 hours ago, Yves Behar said:

Looks good from 71 too. I hope that in the future Central parkway will evolve into it's own distinct district with high rise buildings. It has so much potential to be a tiny downtown of it's own.

 

I would love to see this happen. Central Pkwy. has a distinct feel that I like. it would be great to see a few taller buildings added in. 

Edited by NorthsiderWithaDog

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6 hours ago, NorthsiderWithaDog said:

 

I would love to see this happen. Central Pkwy. has a distinct feel that I like. it would be great to see a few taller buildings added in. 

I agree. I think its where the downtown aesthetic meets the historic OTR aesthetic. If the downtown side of Central Parkway could be lined with with mid/high rises, Central Parkway would truly look amazing. I foresee having a full-fledged grocery store in the exact center of the urban core will be a catalyst for larger projects. 

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Can't wait until that massive surface lot south of the new Kroger store will be developed. Such an eye store when walking by it.

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1 hour ago, taestell said:

A reminder of how tall this thing is going to be when finished:

 

And a reminder of how foolish it was to not move the streetcar transformer into the new structure. 

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7 hours ago, taestell said:

A reminder of how tall this thing is going to be when finished:

 

CWD-4.jpg

Almost as tall if not as tall as the American building, so around 250 ft.

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Will Dusty Rhodes finally stop complaining about the five parking meters removed from Court Street for streetcar construction now that we have this gigantic garage in the same location?

Edited by BigDipper 80
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“To an Ohio resident - wherever he lives - some other part of his state seems unreal.”

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Seeing this makes me wonder what the highest point i can drive my car to is in Cincinnati. I remember some great views from the Deaconess and Christ Hospital Garages. Just something odd about that render showing the cars well above the rooftops of the older Court St. Buildings.

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10 hours ago, jmecklenborg said:

 

And a reminder of how foolish it was to not move the streetcar transformer into the new structure. 

 

The access and structural requirements for this transformer in an inside location would be much greater than what is need in its current arrangement.  It was the right decision to leave it where it is.

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3CDC is apparently working on a new streetscape for Court Street. Hopefully within that project they can do a better job of "hiding" that transformer.

 

Remember that there was originally going to be a more significant structure wrapping around that transformer. One of the results of the cost-cutting freakouts that happened after Cranley was elected is that it was reduced to what is there today, with brick walls only on the east and west sides.

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2 minutes ago, troeros said:

Could that small block where the transformer sits be able to support a smallish mixed use structure? 

 

Yeah, but we'd be getting into the sort of thing that has been proposed for San Francisco, where they want to build apartments out in the middle of wide streets and just leave a land or two on each side. 

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I would much rather see the center parking eliminated and the median of Court Street turned back into a public space. After all, there's plenty of parking there now with the new garage.

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21 minutes ago, taestell said:

I would much rather see the center parking eliminated and the median of Court Street turned back into a public space. After all, there's plenty of parking there now with the new garage.

 

It would be cool to expand the center area for vendors and/or pop-up events. If they would ever consider moving the City Flea, that would be a good spot for it.


“All truly great thoughts are conceived while walking.”
-Friedrich Nietzsche

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I'm hearing rumors that Kroger wants to build a new skywalk to connect their corporate HQ to the new store. If this happens, it will be a major blow to 3CDC's efforts to bring more foot traffic and more retail to Court Street.

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2 hours ago, taestell said:

I'm hearing rumors that Kroger wants to build a new skywalk to connect their corporate HQ to the new store. If this happens, it will be a major blow to 3CDC's efforts to bring more foot traffic and more retail to Court Street.

 

Curious why this would be a major blow?

 

There are still thousands of CBD workers/otr workers who won't be able to use this skywalk.. 

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1 minute ago, troeros said:

There are still thousands of CBD workers/otr workers who won't be able to use this skywalk.. 

 

Who aren't on the sidewalks as it is.  No point in siphoning off even more for no good reason. Maybe if Kroger improved their own streetscape and made the walk inviting, this wouldn't be an issue.  Their HQ presents a lot of blank wall to both Court Street and Central Parkway, fix THAT.  

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Every pedestrian who is walking directly from building to building in the skywalk is a pedestrian who is not walking down the street, passing businesses and thinking “that store looks cool, maybe I’ll stop in there after work.”

 

Honestly part of the city’s Vision Zero program should include a commitment to deprecate the remaining sections of the skywalk. Pump those resources into improving street level pedestrian infrastructure like bump-outs, crosswalks, signage, scramble crossings, etc.

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On 1/8/2019 at 9:06 AM, SleepyLeroy said:

Seeing this makes me wonder what the highest point i can drive my car to is in Cincinnati. I remember some great views from the Deaconess and Christ Hospital Garages. Just something odd about that render showing the cars well above the rooftops of the older Court St. Buildings.

 

I'd say Short Vine is the highest elevation in the core. I lived in a 3rd and 4th floor apartment on University Ave. half a block from Short Vine and the view was impressive.

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1 hour ago, taestell said:

Every pedestrian who is walking directly from building to building in the skywalk is a pedestrian who is not walking down the street, passing businesses and thinking “that store looks cool, maybe I’ll stop in there after work.”

 

Honestly part of the city’s Vision Zero program should include a commitment to deprecate the remaining sections of the skywalk. Pump those resources into improving street level pedestrian infrastructure like bump-outs, crosswalks, signage, scramble crossings, etc.

i dont like Skywalks either but it is a minor tradeoff to get them to build a large downtown store and 300+ apartments in the urban core so I am willing to make that sacrifice. Plus it would not be open to the public and only Kroger employees so I can live with that.

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It's not a sacrifice worth making after the fact, it's not like this was part of the original project.  Plus it's those Kroger employees that really need to be the ones on the street more than anyone else.  Both their HQ and the new building have their own internal parking garages, so they're total silos.  They shouldn't be encouraging even more internal circulation and lack of engagement with their surroundings.  That's one reason their urban stores have been so bad around here, they don't "get it" because they're not getting out enough.  

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Didn't the public already make a bunch of sacrifices for this project, like granting them tax abatements while simultaneously exempting this project from having to pay into the VTICA (streetcar) fund? Did TIF funds go towards building the garage as well? No more sacrifices, thanks.

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So if Kroger says it will build a 50 story new Skyscraper to house their downtown operations with 1000 space garage in the building. It would have the exact same effect as if Kroger put a private skywalk between their building and the store, just like they have over Vine Street.

 

Public Skywalks are the problem. They take people off the street who would not otherwise have an excuse to be in the building. The private ones are really no different than the company taking a bigger space in the building.

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18 hours ago, taestell said:

I'm hearing rumors that Kroger wants to build a new skywalk to connect their corporate HQ to the new store. If this happens, it will be a major blow to 3CDC's efforts to bring more foot traffic and more retail to Court Street.

 

This makes no sense logistically, especially with 3CDC controlling the properties in between HQ and the store.  Is this a joke?

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11 minutes ago, nicker66 said:

This makes no sense logistically, especially with 3CDC controlling the properties in between HQ and the store.  Is this a joke?

 

3CDC owns the buildings facing Court Street, but the rumors I heard are more about Kroger potentially acquiring the former Monro site and building the skywalk over that land.

 

19 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

Public Skywalks are the problem. They take people off the street who would not otherwise have an excuse to be in the building. The private ones are really no different than the company taking a bigger space in the building.

 

I am not convinced that this skywalk would be restricted to Kroger employees only. The lobby of the Kroger building is not restricted to Kroger employees, and the new Kroger store will obviously be open to the public, so why would they restrict the skywalk to only Kroger employees?

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16 minutes ago, taestell said:

 

3CDC owns the buildings facing Court Street, but the rumors I heard are more about Kroger potentially acquiring the former Monro site and building the skywalk over that land.

 

 

I am not convinced that this skywalk would be restricted to Kroger employees only. The lobby of the Kroger building is not restricted to Kroger employees, and the new Kroger store will obviously be open to the public, so why would they restrict the skywalk to only Kroger employees?

Do you have a problem with P&G having a skywalk over Broadway?

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A skywalk between two P&G office buildings that you are not allowed to enter unless you are a P&G employee or a registered guest? No, I don't have a huge problem with that.

 

A skywalk between the public Kroger store and the public Kroger Building lobby? Yes, I have a problem with that. The existence of that skywalk would take much needed foot traffic off of Court Street.

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2 minutes ago, taestell said:

A skywalk between two P&G office buildings that you are not allowed to enter unless you are a P&G employee or a registered guest? No, I don't have a huge problem with that.

 

A skywalk between the public Kroger store and the public Kroger Building lobby? Yes, I have a problem with that. The existence of that skywalk would take much needed foot traffic off of Court Street.

I am in agreement with you on that part. I was assuming the skywalk would be limited to Kroger employees to go between the HQ building and store offices and garage. They would need a key card or something to access it.

 

No, I don't want a public skywalk but private ones I am fine with.

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I'm for sure against the skywalk but I doubt it would be used by anyone other then Kroger employees.  Why would a random public person walk into the Kroger headquarters if their intention is to get to the Kroger store?  It would have to be a certain instance where it's freezing outside and they're walking to the Kroger store from the West of the Kroger headquarters.  I just don't think it would get used that often except for Kroger employees.  

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Seems like bad urban design creep. The project went through all the approvals, now they spring the controversial stuff as an afterthought. No thanks.


“All truly great thoughts are conceived while walking.”
-Friedrich Nietzsche

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32 minutes ago, Cincy513 said:

I'm for sure against the skywalk but I doubt it would be used by anyone other then Kroger employees.  Why would a random public person walk into the Kroger headquarters if their intention is to get to the Kroger store?  It would have to be a certain instance where it's freezing outside and they're walking to the Kroger store from the West of the Kroger headquarters.  I just don't think it would get used that often except for Kroger employees.  

 

I used to work security at the Kroger HQ. You would be amazed at how many people came into the lobby and thought there was a grocery in the building. It got to the point it was making me upset that people would even think that

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A skywalk to the store would facilitate the lot being used for Click List customers as mentioned upthread. Seems like a costly design change at this point though. 

 

If i was Kroger evaluating this plan i would ask how much does having Click List in the surface parking lot increase sales vs. having Click List operate out of the parking garage in the new Court and Walnut building? I guess having it out on street level would increase visibility, which may be the point (along with showing off new tech to investors.) But then is that theoretical increase in sales more than the increase in sales caused by building a 100+ unit apartment building in that lot which would be better for the city? 


www.cincinnatiideas.com

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1 hour ago, cin614 said:

 

I used to work security at the Kroger HQ. You would be amazed at how many people came into the lobby and thought there was a grocery in the building. It got to the point it was making me upset that people would even think that

 

 

They recently changed the lobby around and now the security guards have to endlessly tell people to get to Kemba from the Central Parkway side. 

 

 

 

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That Kemba office is merely low-key outdated.  Usually, credit unions are marvelous bastions of yesteryear office décor.  It needs another ten years to truly season, so let's hope there is no plan to move it to the new building. 

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I've been thinking, once the new Kroger opens, there will be a lot more OTR and Pendleton residents crossing Central Parkway to get to the new store. The intersection where I will personally be crossing (along with most Pendleton residents) is at Central Parkway and Main Street, which is not very pedestrian friendly right now. Fortunately, it would be easy for the city to improve this intersection, and it wouldn't even require a single square foot of space to be taken away from cars. Not even a single parking space would be lost.

 

Right now, the parking lane on the south side of Central Parkway gets wider as you go east towards Main Street (Street View). If you simply realign the sidewalk to eliminate this, and add a new bumpout at the corner, this is a significant improvement for pedestrians. It would reduce the pedestrian crossing distance by 18 feet!

IMG_0003-basic.jpg

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