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Cincinnati: Downtown: 1010 On The Rhine / Downtown Kroger

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So how long is this projected expected to complete? From what I understand 2 years? So around Fall of 2019 or so? So essentially we wont see 3cdc devise plans for the vine st kroger grocery store until the new store opens. I'm guessing we won't see any new infill for that plot until 2020-2021 or so.

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So how long is this projected expected to complete? From what I understand 2 years? So around Fall of 2019 or so? So essentially we wont see 3cdc devise plans for the vine st kroger grocery store until the new store opens. I'm guessing we won't see any new infill for that plot until 2020-2021 or so.

 

They could start plans sooner. It takes a long time to raise funds and put together a plan. No need to wait for the building to be empty to begin the planning process.

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The city tweeted that sidewalk/lane closures could be in effect for two years. But I would expect the parking garage and new Kroger store to open sooner than that. It will take longer to complete the apartment tower above.

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Downtown Kroger gets a boost from redevelopment authority

By Chris Wetterich  –  Staff reporter and columnist, Cincinnati Business Courier

 

The Greater Cincinnati Redevelopment Authority has approved a package of financial aid for the $90.6 million downtown Kroger store and apartment tower set to be built at the southeast corner of Central Parkway and Walnut streets.

 

“This will help add to the capital stack to help make the project possible,” said Todd Castellini, the authority’s vice president for public finance. “We’re excited to be a part of this big, catalytic project.”

 

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2017/12/14/downtown-kroger-gets-a-boost-from-redevelopment.html

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Here are a few I shot this afternoon of the tower crane going up.

IMG_7604.thumb.jpg.c1b92a119afa0e8e2de46ba3d88d353b.jpg

IMG_7610.thumb.jpg.81d263aca9c7cc40f3371149274f7a27.jpg


“All truly great thoughts are conceived while walking.”
-Friedrich Nietzsche

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Why is this development able to progress so quickly while 4th and Race languishes? Is it due to the fact that Kroger is anchoring the retail? Does having the retail component accounted for really change the pro-forma so significantly? I always heard that a development should more or less be able to pencil out with the assumption that the retail will not be filled, but maybe that doesn't remain true with such a large retail space and such a respected and nationally known tenant. It just seems odd that these are relatively similar projects (~17 story buildings with apartments above parking garages with retail at ground level) and one went from idea to crane erection in like 5 months, and the other has been floundering for years.

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Stronger owner, stronger project, stronger overall financials. It all comes down to the developer. WIth the Kroger project you have a rock solid developer. The company doing 4th and Race is a smaller and weaker financially. That is why

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I feel like some of it has to do with Kroger since they are a hometown company. They were more inclined to starting it than fourth and race. I think fourth and race has also been having some issues with financing (so I’ve heard). Hopefully it’ll get back on track sometime this year. Same as with skyhouse which is the development I have been most excited about but I have heard nothing about a start date.

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Central/Walnut got fast tracked because it's being developed by 3CDC. The current city administration is hostile to out-of-town developers, including the one that's trying to build 4th/Race. The city also added a big complication to the project by requiring them to bring in 3CDC to build/manage the parking garage instead of just building the whole thing as one project.

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Stronger owner, stronger project, stronger overall financials. It all comes down to the developer. WIth the Kroger project you have a rock solid developer. The company doing 4th and Race is a smaller and weaker financially. That is why

 

 

The "financials" are stronger because there will be no competition since 3CDC is the kingmaker.  They said yes to this project but intentionally stalled 4th & Race since the developer isn't local.  Isn't a Cincinnati blue blood. 

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Do you think that’s why we are not seeing as much development in Cincinnati as to other areas that have more out of town developers? I like they they are allowing local developers to do work but I think that they need to be more open to allowing other developers from out of town come in and do work.

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Cincinnati's worst kept secret is that developers who donate to the mayor's campaign have their projects fast-tracked. Out-of-down developers don't do that, so they hit more roadblocks.

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LOL, there is no "fast tracking."  Central Parkway & Walnut was able to get financing, while 4th & Race hasn't.  Please read this comment again for the correct answer:

 

Stronger owner, stronger project, stronger overall financials. It all comes down to the developer. WIth the Kroger project you have a rock solid developer. The company doing 4th and Race is a smaller and weaker financially. That is why

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We are turning into Chicago.  If your developer can't help the machine, you don't get to build. 

 

Except Chicago actually cares about its urbanity :(...  Cincinnati is hostile.

 

Also not as much blue-blood bs, money is all the matters.

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LOL, there is no "fast tracking."  Central Parkway & Walnut was able to get financing, while 4th & Race hasn't.  Please read this comment again for the correct answer:

 

Stronger owner, stronger project, stronger overall financials. It all comes down to the developer. WIth the Kroger project you have a rock solid developer. The company doing 4th and Race is a smaller and weaker financially. That is why

 

Exactly. Kroger is a partner and will own the entire ground floor retail space which helps greatly with financing the project. 4th and Race are just F&C and 3CD with a traditional leasing strategy for the ground floor. There are more unknowns when it comes to filling the residential apartments and the ground level retail which makes financing harder.


“All truly great thoughts are conceived while walking.”
-Friedrich Nietzsche

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Neilworms, you tend to paint Cincy with a bad negative brush, it comes off bad. The current administration is hostile to good urban qualities, not Cincinnati. But that is a symptom of fake news, etc, we all know the story with Childrens and Yvette.

 

I saw it first hand here how fast it spreads even among forum members, I posted an article that was peer reviewed research on linguistics, then I got three people arguing with me about like I wrote the research, and then saying they wouldn't even read it because it was "ridiculous" to them. Think how many people do that in this city, don't even look at the details, you can't mess up because the mass is so dumb, and that's what happened with Cranley, Yvette messed up and saved Cranley's ass and Cranley knows it better than anyone.

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Of course, painting Chicago to be an egalitarian City and Cincinnati to be mired down in Blue Blood elitism is spoken from a person who obviously does not know much about either City and even less about Chicago elitism.

 

Chicago is far richer and more exclusive than Cincinnati could ever try to be. Its just that the dozens of Chicago billionaires do not have their offspring scrapping around in local politics.

 

Actually, Cincinnati is the model for egalitarianism. A person with new money can easily join the top golf clubs, business clubs or try out the latest entertainment venue without having to play the VIP card. Want to serve on the Board of the CAM, CAC, Opera, the Playhouse, Junior League? Join the Triple C Ranch, The QCC? Just pull out your wallet or check book.

 

Try that in Chicago.

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Never ever try to sell Cincinnati on being cheap, your competing against a million other cities that are cheap and not noteworthy.  People spend money to live other places for good reason.  Sell Cincy on its assets.

 

Politics is much more accessible I'll agree, I just feel like Chicago has a much better grasp of urbanity than Cincinnati does at large.  Transit is treated like water here, people don't question you for living in the city (look at how some suburbanites even to this freaken day treat living in OTR as some horrible abbreviation) and while corrupt urban projects like groceries and what not are regularly built not faught for because a lot of close minded people don't even understand the concept and hate change.

 

I guess I wasn't clear enough on my blue blood comment but what I really meant to say was that money matters a lot more than dumb associations like what f-ing high school you went to.  So outsiders can at least make a stake in development and bring in good ideas from other places unlike the situation that Cranley has setup where it ensures a perpetual inbred stupidity and validated that dubious quote from Mark Twain.

 

Of course, painting Chicago to be an egalitarian City and Cincinnati to be mired down in Blue Blood elitism is spoken from a person who obviously does not know much about either City and even less about Chicago elitism.

 

Chicago is far richer and more exclusive than Cincinnati could ever try to be. Its just that the dozens of Chicago billionaires do not have their offspring scrapping around in local politics.

 

Actually, Cincinnati is the model for egalitarianism. A person with new money can easily join the top golf clubs, business clubs or try out the latest entertainment venue without having to play the VIP card. Want to serve on the Board of the CAM, CAC, Opera, the Playhouse, Junior League? Join the Triple C Ranch, The QCC? Just pull out your wallet or check book.

 

Try that in Chicago.

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Neilworms, you tend to paint Cincy with a bad negative brush, it comes off bad. The current administration is hostile to good urban qualities, not Cincinnati. But that is a symptom of fake news, etc, we all know the story with Childrens and Yvette.

 

I saw it first hand here how fast it spreads even among forum members, I posted an article that was peer reviewed research on linguistics, then I got three people arguing with me about like I wrote the research, and then saying they wouldn't even read it because it was "ridiculous" to them. Think how many people do that in this city, don't even look at the details, you can't mess up because the mass is so dumb, and that's what happened with Cranley, Yvette messed up and saved Cranley's ass and Cranley knows it better than anyone.

 

This city is a place I really want to love, but OMG, the last election really brought out all of my negative frustrations with how things work down there.  Your going to hear more of that from me until you guys at large (not most of this forum though there are few people here) elect someone good.  Mallory made me less negative and really made me cheer for Cincy, I thought Cranley was an abbretion but it looks like him getting reelected is a return to the same terrible normal.

 

Anyone who is upset about how the childrens thing played out should be more aggressive about it and more critical.  A ground swelling of activisim like what saved the streetcar.  Instead people were smug and Cranley got away with neighborhood murder ;)

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Yeah that's fine Neil it's just annoying when you direct it at us. Like you are being the stereotypical arm chair quarterback but you aren't complaining to the coach you are making it the fan's fault. Just direct your frustration at the administration, on editorials, etc, just not directly at us. Otherwise come do something about it.

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And btw Neil I enjoy your commentary and insight, I just don't like how you direct your frustration directly at forum members, it's off base.  And honestly I agree with everything you say all the time! It's just how it's directed, and maybe I'm just sensitive, but we all love Cincy here!!! ?

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I think the issue is that I'm blunt :), I don't think Cincy's prevaling culture is that way its more of a be polite to people's face and talk behind their backs kind of town ;).  When I am blunt I'm not nasty to people I'm just direct - web communication makes it harder and when I direct statements at people I'm directing it at certain forum members not the vast majority of people here.

 

And btw Neil I enjoy your commentary and insight, I just don't like how you direct your frustration directly at forum members, it's off base.  And honestly I agree with everything you say all the time! It's just how it's directed, and maybe I'm just sensitive, but we all love Cincy here!!! ?

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Awesome photo.  This really puts into perspective how much of a better feel it is going to give the transition from OTR to downtown with turning that massive lot into a thriving corner.  Hopefully it will put pressure on the larger nearby lots as well

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It would be great if that other large lot on court/walnut could get a residential building but without a massive parking garage and lease spaces from Central/Walnut garage. As well as all of the upper floors of the smaller buildings on court.

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I'm just hoping this project helps kick off something to be developed at the long abandoned CMHA building at 16 W Central Parkway.  It's only a block or so away and is a terrible blight right now.


"Someone is sitting in the shade today because someone planted a tree a long time ago." - Warren Buffett 

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I'm just hoping this project helps kick off something to be developed at the long abandoned CMHA building at 16 W Central Parkway.  It's only a block or so away and is a terrible blight right now.

 

I know cincinnati ballet is searching for bigger space from where they are now on the west end. Would be nice to see them build on one of these parking lots. Then their old space could be torn down and redeveloped for housing or mixed use if the FC stadium gets built

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As glad I am to see this structure on the rise, like several other forum members here, I wish it would trigger construction of other major developments we keep hearing about, but never see.  Obviously, everyone knows what they are: 4th & Race, Skyhouse and 8th & Main plus a  major renovation of the Terrace Plaza Hotel and a brand new hi-rise topping off Fountain Square West.  I can only dream how the combo of these structures might transform downtown.

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I'm just hoping this project helps kick off something to be developed at the long abandoned CMHA building at 16 W Central Parkway.  It's only a block or so away and is a terrible blight right now.

 

I know cincinnati ballet is searching for bigger space from where they are now on the west end. Would be nice to see them build on one of these parking lots. Then their old space could be torn down and redeveloped for housing or mixed use if the FC stadium gets built

 

I actually wonder if they've considered the emery. Don't know if the size would be right or not.

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^I’m sure they’ve considered the Emery, but I don’t think it has the rehearsal spaces needed. The ballet needs the facility to be able to support not just its professional company but also its training programs and classes. The primary performance spaces for the Ballet can continue to be the Aronoff and Music Hall, so they don’t really need a big auditorium like The Emery.

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