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Cincinnati: Downtown: 1010 On The Rhine / Downtown Kroger

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2 hours ago, troeros said:

I'm predicting a crap ton of uscans.

 

Even at suburban Kroger's you have insanely high turn over and have to consistently rely on flakey high school students. It's been a real struggle for them because of there low union wages compared to say target that employees a cashier at 13 an hour. 


If the University Kroger is anything to go by, then you're definitely right. That one has like 15 of those machines. Even at Target, the self-checkout always has a line.

Eventually it will just be 1 or 2 employees while our automated overlords do all the cleaning, checking out, and the stocking. 

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I think that store actually has 20-25 Uscans. Oakley Kroger recently added more Uscans; I think they are up to 18 or 24.


"It's just fate, as usual, keeping its bargain and screwing us in the fine print..." - John Crichton

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3 hours ago, troeros said:

I'm predicting a crap ton of uscans.

 

Probably, because (if Kroger is smart) they should expect the average transaction to be much smaller at the downtown store than at a suburban Kroger. Most shoppers will be in there 2-3 times a week buying a bag of groceries at a time, rather than once a week buying a full cartload.

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Any word if this new Kroger will contain a Pharmacy? I would hope so, because I really want the Cross Roads Health Center that currently acts as the neighborhood pharmacy to be redeveloped for future Mixed Use Development in OTR. 

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11 minutes ago, troeros said:

Any word if this new Kroger will contain a Pharmacy? I would hope so, because I really want the Cross Roads Health Center that currently acts as the neighborhood pharmacy to be redeveloped for future Mixed Use Development in OTR. 

It's not that simple because Crossroads isn't just a retail pharmacy, it's a full on health center.

 

Hopefully at some point the uses can be combined with another non-profit and moved to a better location, as that building has been an anti-urban eyesore ever since it was built.

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6 minutes ago, mcmicken said:

It's not that simple because Crossroads isn't just a retail pharmacy, it's a full on health center.

 

Hopefully at some point the uses can be combined with another non-profit and moved to a better location, as that building has been an anti-urban eyesore ever since it was built.

 

Doesn't Kroger have little clinic? Will these not be features in the new Kroger store? 

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12 minutes ago, troeros said:

 

Doesn't Kroger have little clinic? Will these not be features in the new Kroger store? 

But those aren't subsidized by charities. Crossroads exists to serve under-insured and lower income folks with a wider range of support than the Little Clinic. 

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1 hour ago, troeros said:

Any word if this new Kroger will contain a Pharmacy? I would hope so, because I really want the Cross Roads Health Center that currently acts as the neighborhood pharmacy to be redeveloped for future Mixed Use Development in OTR. 

 

If not, it is not like downtown is underserved by pharmacies. There are 2 Walgreens and at least 1 CVS in the CBD alone.

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5 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

 

If not, it is not like downtown is underserved by pharmacies. There are 2 Walgreens and at least 1 CVS in the CBD alone.

 

Not a big deal necessarily. I just get this growing impression that this Kroger is meant to be a more modern up-to-date OTR Kroger, that will fulfill the needs of business workers/weekend tourists from the suburbs rather than be a main focal destination for families and be a one stop shopping experience like the Kroger are in the suburbs. 

 

The lack of a little clinic, a pharmacy aren't a big deal, but they do add a level of convenience that the majority of krogers do provide. I just hope this isn't a half assed experience overall. 

 

 

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Now I'm reading there will be no liquor store...

 

So thus far it seems like there will be no pharmacy, no little clinic, no liquor store, probably no fifth third branch (like many of the suburban krogers feature).

 

Add the fact that they close early, compared to most kroger stores, I can't help but feel that they built a kroger not for an urban community of residents (like they would at a montgomery kroger, or a loveland kroger, or an oakley kroger) but rather will treat this as, "Well no one really lives downtown, but hey if you want to buy some produce, and some toilet paper in a less sketchy kroger than hear ya' go!"

 

I'm not trying to be too picky, and this will be an obvious vast improvement of the otr kroger, but I just can't shake the sense that kroger does not really have any faith that downtown actually has enough middle income-to upper income, full time residents to support a fully functioning kroger store...and thus we are ending up with a very limited kroger in the making. 

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It's fine for now to attract more people to live downtown.  Once there's a big enough population downtown, some other player will come in and do it right.  In all likelihood an Amazon Go store will be there in 5 years (and every other major metro), not to mention another small business attempt at one.

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4 hours ago, troeros said:

Now I'm reading there will be no liquor store...

 

So thus far it seems like there will be no pharmacy, no little clinic, no liquor store, probably no fifth third branch (like many of the suburban krogers feature).

 

Add the fact that they close early, compared to most kroger stores, I can't help but feel that they built a kroger not for an urban community of residents (like they would at a montgomery kroger, or a loveland kroger, or an oakley kroger) but rather will treat this as, "Well no one really lives downtown, but hey if you want to buy some produce, and some toilet paper in a less sketchy kroger than hear ya' go!"

 

I'm not trying to be too picky, and this will be an obvious vast improvement of the otr kroger, but I just can't shake the sense that kroger does not really have any faith that downtown actually has enough middle income-to upper income, full time residents to support a fully functioning kroger store...and thus we are ending up with a very limited kroger in the making. 

A major difference in living in urban neighborhoods is exactly that, there is no one-stop shop for everything. All those things take space, this is half the size of the suburban Kroger. I don't want a massive Kroger that takes me 10 minutes to get to the milk where I have to pass by a bank, a coffee shop, and a pharmacy.

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5 hours ago, troeros said:

 

Not a big deal necessarily. I just get this growing impression that this Kroger is meant to be a more modern up-to-date OTR Kroger, that will fulfill the needs of business workers/weekend tourists from the suburbs rather than be a main focal destination for families and be a one stop shopping experience like the Kroger are in the suburbs. 

 

The lack of a little clinic, a pharmacy aren't a big deal, but they do add a level of convenience that the majority of krogers do provide. I just hope this isn't a half assed experience overall. 

 

 

A lot of those items like the Little Clinic, pharmacy, liquor store, etc can be added later as demand would merit it. Its not like they need to be designed into the store. Little Clinics and pharmacies were not designed into many of the suburban locations when they originally opened (yes, not speaking of Marketplaces) but came about later as the demand and opportunity presented itself

 

4 hours ago, troeros said:

Now I'm reading there will be no liquor store...

Add the fact that they close early, compared to most kroger stores, I can't help but feel that they built a kroger not for an urban community of residents (like they would at a montgomery kroger, or a loveland kroger, or an oakley kroger) but rather will treat this as, "Well no one really lives downtown, but hey if you want to buy some produce, and some toilet paper in a less sketchy kroger than hear ya' go!"

 

I'm not trying to be too picky, and this will be an obvious vast improvement of the otr kroger, but I just can't shake the sense that kroger does not really have any faith that downtown actually has enough middle income-to upper income, full time residents to support a fully functioning kroger store...and thus we are ending up with a very limited kroger in the making. 

 

Why compare it to a suburban Kroger. It is a completely different animal. The OTR store was essentially a no frills suburban Kroger with very little selection. This store is completely different.

 

If you remember the Kenwood store that was short lived from 10 years ago, I imagine it will be a bit like that store. It was a smaller format store more like a Fresh Market or Whole Foods. That store sat between 3 other larger format Krogers in the area but was designed to serve the office crowd (that never materialized because of the Kenwood Collection debacle). The goal was to offer more quick service meals and ready to eat meals that the professional could have at their desk or stop and pick up on their way home. It was not really the store that people shop at for their weekly groceries. I liken the downtown store to this.

 

 

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I've heard a fair bit of chatter from people who are interested in stopping by to pick up things on their way home.  Not sure about doing their whole week's worth of shopping, and taking a car over there kind of defeats the benefits, but I can see someone walking a couple blocks or possibly driving over to pick up a ClickList order.  I'm glad to see it right in the middle of the streetcar route, making it convenient to a lot of people who live downtown and in OTR without requiring a car trip.  

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5 hours ago, troeros said:

Now I'm reading there will be no liquor store...

 

So thus far it seems like there will be no pharmacy, no little clinic, no liquor store, probably no fifth third branch (like many of the suburban krogers feature).

 

Add the fact that they close early, compared to most kroger stores, I can't help but feel that they built a kroger not for an urban community of residents (like they would at a montgomery kroger, or a loveland kroger, or an oakley kroger) but rather will treat this as, "Well no one really lives downtown, but hey if you want to buy some produce, and some toilet paper in a less sketchy kroger than hear ya' go!"

 

I'm not trying to be too picky, and this will be an obvious vast improvement of the otr kroger, but I just can't shake the sense that kroger does not really have any faith that downtown actually has enough middle income-to upper income, full time residents to support a fully functioning kroger store...and thus we are ending up with a very limited kroger in the making. 

 

 

Pretty sure from what i saw the Liquor is on the 2nd floor with the food court. I know at least they will have a wine selection case behind the 'adult beverage point of sale counter' because i drew them up last week.

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^ That is what I've heard as well. Almost like how in Kentucky, Kroger stores have a separate liquor store with a separate entrance. The downtown liquor store will be on the second floor and will be separate from the main grocery store.

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8 hours ago, SleepyLeroy said:

Pretty sure from what i saw the Liquor is on the 2nd floor with the food court.


Thank god, I was really hoping for this. I've always wondered why there isn't a single liquor store in the area. 

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8 hours ago, SleepyLeroy said:

 

 

Pretty sure from what i saw the Liquor is on the 2nd floor with the food court. I know at least they will have a wine selection case behind the 'adult beverage point of sale counter' because i drew them up last week.

 

That is good news! Thanks, I need liquor to survive most days. 

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19 minutes ago, troeros said:

 

That is good news! Thanks, I need liquor to survive most days. 

Yep i just checked and the whole south east end of the 2nd floor is "Adult Bev".  Five aisles and the surrounding coolers (and i missed it earlier) plus a 500sqft walk in beer cooler. All is well!!

 

Edited by SleepyLeroy
BEER!

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1 hour ago, SleepyLeroy said:

Yep i just checked and the whole south east end of the 2nd floor is "Adult Bev".  Five aisles and the surrounding coolers (and i missed it earlier) plus a 500sqft walk in beer cooler. All is well!!

 

 

How about a growler station / wine bar??

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"It's just fate, as usual, keeping its bargain and screwing us in the fine print..." - John Crichton

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One block away you can go to Halfcut and Revel.

 

I think it is important to think about how Kroger has been researching what an urban store needs to be. It does not need to be the one-stop, load the car trunk, buy bulk toilet paper store. That, at least, is not how I will be shopping there. I truly believe that they see themselves as part of a downtown ecosystem of businesses. I'm on a lot of NDAs for this project, both from my research work while at DAAP and now in my position at the firm I work at, but I feel secure saying the above. 

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2 minutes ago, Chas Wiederhold said:

I think it is important to think about how Kroger has been researching what an urban store needs to be. It does not need to be the one-stop, load the car trunk, buy bulk toilet paper store. That, at least, is not how I will be shopping there.

 

Me either. However, I am looking to have a beer while I shop.


"It's just fate, as usual, keeping its bargain and screwing us in the fine print..." - John Crichton

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On 4/14/2019 at 10:15 PM, jdm00 said:

So this has me confused.  According to this--which is obviously not authoritative--the American Building is 255 feet tall.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tallest_buildings_in_Cincinnati 

 

This Courier article says that the new Kroger/Court and Walnut building topped out at 206 feet.  I could be totally wrong, but the new building looks pretty much the same height as-- and maybe just a tad taller than--the American Building.  Any ideas?  Is this a typo, and it's really 260 feet tall? 

Isn't this like the one practical application of high school trigonometry? 

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24 minutes ago, Cygnus said:

 

How about a growler station / wine bar??

I don't see either of those, but i bet from the layout you will be allowed to buy something and carry it to the food court where all the food offerings have up front to go counters. There is even an outside patio to hang out on. Maybe not drink as you shop downstairs but you could definitely take a break and enjoy a few moments with a drink upstairs. That isn't something you can do at any of the Kroger stores I've been to so far.

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Stop by the Oakley Kroger. You can shop with an adult beverage or sit at the bar and try samples. Limit two full pours per person. It's generally always busy.

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"It's just fate, as usual, keeping its bargain and screwing us in the fine print..." - John Crichton

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28 minutes ago, thomasbw said:

Isn't this like the one practical application of high school trigonometry? 

I think this was solved earlier in the thread and this photo by  Travis shows they are about equal in height. American Building height is wrong it is 200ft in reality not 255'.

 

image.png

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12 hours ago, jjakucyk said:

I've heard a fair bit of chatter from people who are interested in stopping by to pick up things on their way home. 

I definitely plan on doing this. I work downtown and park closer to central so I definitely plan to stop in on weekdays after work to grab random stuff that I forgot or couldn't find on my bigger weekend grocery trip. 

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10 minutes ago, ucgrady said:

I definitely plan on doing this. I work downtown and park closer to central so I definitely plan to stop in on weekdays after work to grab random stuff that I forgot or couldn't find on my bigger weekend grocery trip. 

 

Me too, I work on Central Parwkay so plan to walk over there from time to time. My wife does most of the grocery shopping at Aldi but Aldi doesn't carry everything so I occasionally have to go to Kroger. This will make those trip easier since I can just do them during my lunch break. 

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Do we have an estimate on how many new workers the downtown kroger will bring? 

 

I imagine the otr Kroger was probably less than 50 employees based on the size and demand/departments of the store. 

 

Just a ballpark, but I'm guessing that the new Kroger will probably be greater than that. If I had to throw a rough number I would have to guess 150-175 full time/part time employees include the night stockers, maybe a tad more. 

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It's the little things like a Starbucks service window that make cities so vibrant and great.

 

With the Kroger store officially opening tomorrow I hope that this will be the beginning of a wave of positive development and changes for Court Street and that overall portion of Downtown. 

 

 

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Name the weakest performing coffee shop within a 5 minute walk from here and say goodbye to it.


“All truly great thoughts are conceived while walking.”
-Friedrich Nietzsche

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9 minutes ago, JYP said:

Name the weakest performing coffee shop within a 5 minute walk from here and say goodbye to it.

 

Kitty's, Dunkin, and Coffee Emporium are all within a block or so. Unfortunately, Kitty's probably won't survive much longer on Court. They've got a new spot opening at 4th and Race though which should hopefully do well.

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30 minutes ago, JYP said:

Name the weakest performing coffee shop within a 5 minute walk from here and say goodbye to it.

 

I mean I'm sure the new court street Starbucks will have an impact on some of the local coffee shops downtown...But I think that the person who drinks Starbucks would have probably never gone to a Iris Book Cafe, or Kitty's anyway. 

 

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1 hour ago, JYP said:

Name the weakest performing coffee shop within a 5 minute walk from here and say goodbye to it.


Ktty's is probably done, with Dunkin' likely to take a big hit (but maybe not fatal). Coffee Emporium will only see a minor decline in business I'd imagine. Iris Book Cafe will be unaffected due to ZERO client overlap and it's still a few blocks away from the Starbucks.

Edited by Largue

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The Kroger/Starbucks partnership (I don't know if it's anything more formal than just a lot of leases) has actually caused a lot of problems for independent coffee shops in smaller towns too. Like city councils will beg people to open a coffee shop and they constantly tell these councils can't because the Kroger has a Starbucks.

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6 minutes ago, GCrites80s said:

The Kroger/Starbucks partnership (I don't know if it's anything more formal than just a lot of leases) has actually caused a lot of problems for independent coffee shops in smaller towns too. Like city councils will beg people to open a coffee shop and they constantly tell these councils can't because the Kroger has a Starbucks.

 

People who religiously drink Starbucks blow my mind. 

 

Their coffee is average as hell. Most of their menu has now evolved into this fast food McDonald's hybrid with Fraps that have over a 1,000 calories in one serving. Their food is decent, but still is way overpriced like their drinks. 

 

Starbucks used to be a cooler when they were smaller and more "local" oriented with their coffee shops. Now they have become this behemoth that has literally become the equivelent to the McDonalds of Coffee Chains. 

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2 hours ago, Jakelley said:

 

Kitty's, Dunkin, and Coffee Emporium are all within a block or so. Unfortunately, Kitty's probably won't survive much longer on Court. They've got a new spot opening at 4th and Race though which should hopefully do well.

Kitty's opened at 4th and Elm yesterday. Much needed for our side of the city.

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3 hours ago, troeros said:

It's the little things like a Starbucks service window that make cities so vibrant and great.

 

56 minutes ago, troeros said:

Their coffee is average as hell.

 

So "average as hell" coffee is what makes a city "so vibrant and great"? I'm just puzzled by your train of thought sometimes.

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29 minutes ago, taestell said:

 

 

So "average as hell" coffee is what makes a city "so vibrant and great"? I'm just puzzled by your train of thought sometimes.

 

I don't feel like his opinions are in conflict here. You can personally dislike Starbucks but recognize that TONS of people love it and consider it a positive to have. I feel that way too. Hate it personally, but for some reason many, many people love it. 

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16 minutes ago, DEPACincy said:

 

I don't feel like his opinions are in conflict here. You can personally dislike Starbucks but recognize that TONS of people love it and consider it a positive to have. I feel that way too. Hate it personally, but for some reason many, many people love it. 

Just like the ferris skystar wheel.

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58 minutes ago, taestell said:

 

 

So "average as hell" coffee is what makes a city "so vibrant and great"? I'm just puzzled by your train of thought sometimes.

 

There coffee is average. That's my personal opinion....Clearly many people love Starbucks, and don't share my opinion, hence the reason why they are a profitable company and have thousands of stores across the world. Clearly many people will love the walk up window feature and will be frequent customers, which will be great for activating pedestrian traffic... That said, I won't be in line because I don't think their coffee is that great.  

 

 

 

 

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Get a peek at Kroger’s new downtown store

 

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Kroger Co. will open its first downtown store in a half-century on Wednesday morning, and it will feature a different look than its typical supermarkets.

 

The Courier got a preview of the new “Kroger on the Rhine” store at Court and Walnut streets on Tuesday afternoon. Click on our slideshow above to see what the long-awaited store looks like.

 

The store features a modern design with up-to-date signage and a sleek layout. It maximizes Kroger’s use of the 50,000 square feet on two floors with store space that’s one-third the size of a Kroger Marketplace store and roughly half the size of a typical Kroger store. The downtown store is still twice as big as Kroger’s store on Vine Street in Over-the-Rhine that closes tonight.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2019/09/24/get-a-peek-at-kroger-s-new-downtown-store-photos.html


"You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers

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I was really skeptical that Kroger was going to get this right. Their only other recent attempt at an urban store in this city was the Corryville store, which is not impressive -- it's basically just a suburban Kroger with bar on the second floor. But it really appears they have done a good job with the downtown store and really thought about how downtown residents will shop there. From the photos being shared today, it appears the store is primarily oriented around smaller shopping trips, with only smaller shopping carts available and 10 of the 14 checkouts being U-Scans. The selection looks great, too, way better than what was offered at the old OTR store.

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I always hate the struggle to not be stuck with the giant carts. It seems like there's anywhere from 5-10X as many giant carts as the smaller ones yet half the customers only want the smaller ones. And this is in the 'burbs!

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I'm curious when fencing will go up for demo..?.

 

I'm happy that the otr Kroger always managed to exist during the toughest times in otr history. I can't imagine how difficult it would have been for the poor residents living there back in the early 2000s if Kroger had shut down. 

 

That said, for many years it was a very hot area for open air drug dealing so I'm glad that south of liberty will be a little more, "cleaned" up in the end.

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