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Guest ryanlammi

In The World: Turkey

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Turkey is looking more and more like a false flag operation as time goes by. I'd be surprised if the entire coup wasn't inspired by Erdogen's supporters so that they could kill off their opposition, inspire Muslim extremists, and create the basis for establishing a more authoritarian dictatorship. Erdogan himself is making surprisingly thinly veiled comments giving this away:

 

Brutal backlash against Turkey coup as mobs behead rebel soldiers in the streets

 

President Erdogan said: “They will pay a heavy price for this. This uprising is a gift from God to us because this will be a reason to cleanse our army”

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In another sure sign of a false flag, Erdogan has made a list of people to purge very, very quickly, and hasn't hesitated a bit to start with the purges:

 

Turkey's education board demands 1,577 university deans (every one in the country) resign

 

Here's a list of the Turkey purge I've seen making the rounds:

 

    Demand for 1577 University Deans resignation

 

    30 governors fired

 

    9000 in Interior Ministry fired

 

    Over 2000 judges dismissed

 

    3,000,000 civil servants banned from going on holiday

 

    Talks of reenabling the death penalty

 

    1500 Finance Ministry officials suspended

 

    103 generals/admirals detained for questioning

 

    ?? soldiers fired/imprisoned

 

    15200 Ministry of Education personnel fired

 

    Several news/media outlets broadcast licenses withdrawn

 

    Turkey's spy agency suspends 100 people

 

    492 state religious personnel removed

 

    21000 private teachers licenses revoked

 

    393 personnel in Ministry of Family and Social Policy dismissed

 

 

It will be very interesting to see if this pattern repeats itself again throughout Europe over the next few decades.

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Scary times. Fear seldom produces advancements in humanity. It won't here either....

 

Erdogan Claims Vast Powers in Turkey After Narrow Victory in Referendum

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/04/16/world/europe/turkey-referendum-polls-erdogan.html

 

Erdogan is a long time ally of the EU and US. Beyond his "help" in Syria, the EU is using his country to process Syrians and other refugees and keep them out of their continent. The EU promised to pay Turkey 3 billion Euros to his government over this issue. I've always maintained that the West looks pretty hypocritical when it slams Putin yet gives this guy a pass. Western Media pretty much buried the news of all his governmental and academic purges that have been going on since the failed "coup". Putin wished he could set up Russia like Erdogan has set up our friend Turkey.

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They are about as likely to join the EU as Trump is going to volunteer his tax records. Just not happening.

 

Still have an application under review. Still have favored status. Not surprisingly Merkel is nowhere to be found on this subject. She brokered the deal to give Erdogan three billion Euros.

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If they bring back the death penalty as Erdogan proposes then they will not be eligible for EU membership, which is likely the point of doing so.  And I have read many disturbing stories about Erdogan's increasingly authoritarian ways in the Western press.

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If they bring back the death penalty as Erdogan proposes then they will not be eligible for EU membership, which is likely the point of doing so.  And I have read many disturbing stories about Erdogan's increasingly authoritarian ways in the Western press.

 

It's interesting that the folks in Brussels have been much more quiet on Turkey's vote compared to the UK. The EU can disqualify the application before Erdogan disqualifies his country. Have they yet? Of course not. I'm sure those three billion Euros to keep the migrants at the border have something to do with that.

 

I have no doubt you have read stories. Western Media reports on Turkey but they do bury the stories. I'm hooked on Reuters. Putin is the main page over Erdogan 30 to 1. Not a whisper on the main site page about the purges since the "coup". Erdogan is actually doing what Putin wishes he could do and they are still an actual applicant to the EU. It's just makes Europe look really, really bad.

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i'm confused.  Are you suggesting some sort of collusion between "the Western Media" and the EU to keep whatever is going on in Turkey under wraps? 

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i'm confused.  Are you suggesting some sort of collusion between "the Western Media" and the EU to keep whatever is going on in Turkey under wraps? 

 

No. I'm suggesting that when the EU made the deal with Turkey over the migrants they pretty much agreed to a deal with the devil. I mean if Brussels had any leverage they would pulled Turkey's favored status and it's EU application. AFAIK none of that has been done. 

 

As for the press, Turkey isn't sexy. It's just jailing and killing people. It's not the grand global conspiracy that has been tied to Putin.

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^^^No skin of my back every time if you keep posting this stuff, but you might consider whether your impressions of general things like "Western Media" and "folks in Brussels" are based on verifiable reality or just confirmation bias. You clearly have a strong opinion on these things, but it's a little odd for the rest of us to keep being told we aren't seeing the many stories we are reading on various topics.

 

As for Turkey and the EU: it's literally a decades long process, and it's a frequent political pinata, with the EU disingenuously dangling more advanced accession talks in return for concessions from Turkey. It's seen as a point of leverage. But all that said, you're not even right about the basic fact you're asserting.  It's the national governments who work hard to cultivate Turkey as a partner in controlling migration, so might be biting their tongues (no different from the U.S. in many situation). The MEP's in Brussels actually voted overwhelmingly in support of cutting off negotiations with the Erdogan government:

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38090121

The European Parliament has voted to suspend Turkey's EU membership talks because of the Turkish government's crackdown since a coup attempt in July.

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+1 on it being an odd tactic.  I have read a pretty steady stream of articles on the NYT, and listened to stories about it on NPR and BBC.  But I guess that's just the lamestream lib'rl media for you.  And is Reuters not Western Media?

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Despite thousands imprisoned due to the Erdogan's mass purges since the fake coup and an a successful follow up "election" designed to centralize government to a level Putin can only dream of it's only the death penalty EU leaders care about when dealing with Turkey

 

Wonder where the EU stands on human rights? Considering how much the EU is ignoring about Erdogan the bar is set very, very low. Unless you're Putin. Then the EU ministers love to grandstand.

 

More confirmation bias from ABC News and CNN:

 

Juncker: EU's hand remains outstretched to Turkey

 

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/juncker-eus-hand-remains-outstretched-turkey-48664603

 

A year after failed coup in Turkey, Erdogan says 'behead traitors'

 

http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/15/europe/turkey-coup-attempt-anniversary/index.html

 

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Turkey's President Erdogan—now elected to @UNESCO board which is tasked with protecting global press freedom—defended the jailing of Turkish journalists, and lashed out at a French reporter during a tense visit on Friday to Paris. https://t.co/g62YLxfssJ


"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities."-Voltaire

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Turkey's President Erdogan—now elected to @UNESCO board which is tasked with protecting global press freedom—defended the jailing of Turkish journalists, and lashed out at a French reporter during a tense visit on Friday to Paris. https://t.co/g62YLxfssJ

 

Is this surprising? The world community (and European leaders in particular) continue to ignore this guy's actions for the better part of a decade. This is the problem with many world leaders acting like Putin is the only evil 24/7. Europe pays him off to create an eastern migrant wall. He's basically destroyed Ataturk's ideal of having Turkey joining the European community and is dragging the country culturally back towards the Arabian peninsula. It's a real shame.

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Turkey is quickly becoming a one-man show after close to a century of parliamentary democracy.

 

Unbelievable the EU still hasn't formally pulled Turkey's application to join.

 

Turkey Approves Crucial Election Law Seen Boosting Erdogan

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-03-13/turkey-approves-crucial-election-overhaul-seen-boosting-erdogan

 

Oh by the way, the EU is throwing more money at him to keep the Syrians out of Europe:

 

EU to offer Turkey more cash for Syrian refugees before Erdogan meeting

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu-turkey/eu-to-offer-turkey-more-cash-for-syrian-refugees-before-erdogan-meeting-idUSKCN1GP1K7?il=0

 

Don't look know but Angela Merkel values the Turkey-EU relationship:

 

Merkel: EU, Turkey dependent on each other

 

https://aa.com.tr/en/europe/merkel-eu-turkey-dependent-on-each-other/1086638

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Maybe Trump wants relations with Turkey to meltdown to weaken NATO and strengthen Russia?

 

As the US-Turkish relationship continues to meltdown it’s a good time to highlight a briefing note prepared for Lady Thatcher on her 2nd day as Prime Minister regarding the strategic importance of Turkey.

IMG_20180817_003438.thumb.jpg.f6dcd6ccd7b201bed20446b6297f0950.jpg


"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities."-Voltaire

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‘Deadly diplomatic challenge’: Turkey holding 50 US nuclear bombs ‘hostage'

 

President Donald Trump’s Middle Eastern crisis is only just beginning. His NATO ally Turkey has gone rogue and invaded Syria. So what happens to the 50 US thermonuclear warheads stored on its soil?

 

Turkey’s President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan last month declared he wanted nuclear weapons: “We have Israel nearby, as almost neighbours. They scare others by possessing these. No one can touch them.”

 

And, given his nation’s rapidly deteriorating relationship with the West, the US stockpile could prove a tempting shortcut to becoming the region’s second nuclear power.

 

MORE 

https://www.news.com.au/world/middle-east/deadly-diplomatic-challenge-turkey-holding-50-us-nuclear-bombs-hostage/news-story/1a89583915a67a51546a1f1f47c396e9


"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities."-Voltaire

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Feeling that "America's strength" yet?

 

 


"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities."-Voltaire

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This is what Trump has opened the door to. Don't watch if you are squeamish...

 

 


"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities."-Voltaire

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Shocking, but from the discussion on that thread that is apparently older video from some of the fighting between the Kurds and Turks in Turkey.  Still, it shows the degree of barbarism that is happening over there.

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13 hours ago, X said:

Shocking, but from the discussion on that thread that is apparently older video from some of the fighting between the Kurds and Turks in Turkey.  Still, it shows the degree of barbarism that is happening over there.

 

The situation is actually more complex than is being portrayed in most of the media.  There is a Kurdish terrorist organization called the PKK that has been fighting in Turkey for a long time.  The Kurds are an oppressed minority in Turkey.

https://www.thenation.com/article/in-turkey-repression-of-the-kurdish-language-is-back-with-no-end-in-sight/

 

Some of the Kurds in Syria might be sympathetic, but very few of the Kurds in Syria are PKK.  Just as very few Mexican-Americans are MS-13.

 

Most of the Syrian Kurds are Christians, by the way, and the part of Syria where the Kurds are being killed is part of Syria's breadbasket -- not a sandy desert.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-49973218

 

What makes those people "Kurds" is their language and cultural traditions. 

Edited by Foraker
Added second link

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19 minutes ago, Foraker said:

What makes those people "Kurds" is their language and cultural traditions. 

 

They were promised a nation state after World War I and never got it.


Very Stable Genius

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7 minutes ago, DarkandStormy said:

 

They were promised a nation state after World War I and never got it.

 

Yes, and there are now Kurds in Turkey, Syria, and Iraq, and the governments of those countries have all oppressed their Kurds to try to prevent them from demanding their own country.  Oppressing a minority would seem to make them more likely to want their own country, however, wouldn't you think? 

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There are Kurds in Iran, as well.  They were saying on NPR that they are the largest ethnic group without their own nation-state (though I wonder if that means all over or just the Middle East).  We've been allies with various Kurdish groups since at least WWI, and betraying them almost from the start.  It's incredibly sad.

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friends and co-workers were over there in southern turkey this past summer visiting their families and we talk about this.

 

from their perspective, the refugee problem is off the charts. they have been completely overwhelmed for a long time. there is not help or let up on that and turkey is not a wealthy country. a lot of frustration and also sadness because they feel like there is nothing anyone in the area can do and no one is helping them with these people. the euros and middle easterners do nothing as usual. so it's a disaster if you live in southwestern turkey with the syrian refugees in general.

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"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities."-Voltaire

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"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities."-Voltaire

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"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities."-Voltaire

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They may be calling it a ceasefire, but it's really an unconditional surrender of one of if not our best allies in that region.  Putin wins.  Assad wins.  Iran wins.  The Kurds lose.  America loses.  Any chance at democracy or liberal society in the Middle East loses.

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This is worse than the fall of Saigon.  There we lost a war and arguably had to pull out.  This is our President unilaterally betraying our allies and allowing them to be slaughtered and forced out of their homes for no reason.

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and

 


"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities."-Voltaire

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