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Cincinnati: Downtown: The Blonde (Eighth & Main)

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The Sycamore/15th lot that is hopefully going to become a new building in Pendleton is never filled up. The A&D garage does occasionally fills up, mostly in the winter though. The casino is never close to filled. Plenty of parking around the court house....

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1 hour ago, cincydave8 said:

The Sycamore/15th lot that is hopefully going to become a new building in Pendleton is never filled up. The A&D garage does occasionally fills up, mostly in the winter though. The casino is never close to filled. Plenty of parking around the court house....

 

Do you mean 12th?  That's a very recent change.  I think they kicked out all the monthly people but I'm not sure exactly what's going on there.  I see A&D every morning (used to park there myself), and it's closed to daily parkers every weekday morning.  Nobody's saying there isn't parking, but it gets swamped in that critical 8:00-10:00am timeframe before the cops and potential jurors get let out.  It doesn't matter if the lots are half empty at 4:00pm to someone arriving at 9:15am.  If you want to utilize alternative transportation means, but still need to drive from time to time (say for client or consultant meetings, site visits, bad weather, etc.) then you still may need to get a monthly pass somewhere to make sure you're not lugging stuff for four blocks on the client's dime or circling the streets in the snow.  Even getting a monthly pass isn't easy.  I hung on to my A&D pass and am "renting" it out to someone else until they can get their own spot with them, and it's been six months so far.  

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I meant 12th street, yes. I've been parking in a Levine spot for almost 7 years and I have never-ever seen the lot at 12th and Sycamore full. Even when half of it was closed for movie trailers a few years ago there were still plenty of spots in the morning. The only time I ever see A&D full is during the winter months or rainy days. Even if both were filled the casino is never close to being full. The idea that it's hard to find a spot to park near the courthouse between 8 and 10am is simply not true because if nothing else, you can always park at the casino. 

Edited by cincydave8

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31 minutes ago, jjakucyk said:

 

Do you mean 12th?  That's a very recent change.  I think they kicked out all the monthly people but I'm not sure exactly what's going on there.  I see A&D every morning (used to park there myself), and it's closed to daily parkers every weekday morning.  Nobody's saying there isn't parking, but it gets swamped in that critical 8:00-10:00am timeframe before the cops and potential jurors get let out.  It doesn't matter if the lots are half empty at 4:00pm to someone arriving at 9:15am.  If you want to utilize alternative transportation means, but still need to drive from time to time (say for client or consultant meetings, site visits, bad weather, etc.) then you still may need to get a monthly pass somewhere to make sure you're not lugging stuff for four blocks on the client's dime or circling the streets in the snow.  Even getting a monthly pass isn't easy.  I hung on to my A&D pass and am "renting" it out to someone else until they can get their own spot with them, and it's been six months so far.  

 

Garfield Garage on 9th is also never even close to being full. All of the surface lots on Eggleston have spaces available all the time. I would argue "lugging stuff for four blocks on the client's dime" is actually not a problem. My attorney wife does it. People in other cities do it. Walking four blocks takes a few minutes and is not a problem. That part of downtown has gotten to a point where it may be kind of difficult to park directly next to your office if you arrive in a very narrow window in the morning, otherwise there are literally thousands of open spots at all times. 

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Apparently the 12th & Sycamore lot is only doing full-day rates now, so that would explain why it doesn't get used by the courthouse people.  That "narrow window in the morning" just happens to be when most people arrive though, that's why it's called rush hour after all.  Thousands of open spots at all times is a gross exaggeration. 

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23 minutes ago, jjakucyk said:

Apparently the 12th & Sycamore lot is only doing full-day rates now, so that would explain why it doesn't get used by the courthouse people.  That "narrow window in the morning" just happens to be when most people arrive though, that's why it's called rush hour after all.  Thousands of open spots at all times is a gross exaggeration. 

 

By literally thousands I meant in the entire CBD, not just on Court Street. It is not an exaggeration to say there are always more than 2,000 spots open downtown. And I guess my point is the idea that it should be easy to find a parking spot next to your building during rush hour has to die, just like the idea that you should always be able to park directly in front of your house, or directly next to the entrance to the mall. Or directly next to anywhere! We can't build our city based on maximum convenience during rush hour. Get to work early. Take the bus. Ride a scooter. Live closer. Otherwise, be willing to walk four blocks. It won't kill you, and the whole city will be better off for it. (And I mean the royal you here, not you specifically).

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I agree with what you're saying, but at the same time you have to look at it from the point of view of someone making rational decisions based on the situation at hand.  If the choice is between a 20 minute drive with an employer-provided parking space or a 40 minute bus ride (with another 10-20 minutes walking on either end) and no flexibility then it's pretty difficult to take the high road.  Moving closer in is tough with housing prices being so inflated right now. 

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11 hours ago, jjakucyk said:

Nobody's saying there isn't parking, but it gets swamped in that critical 8:00-10:00am timeframe before the cops and potential jurors get let out.

 

When I last had jury duty I parked on Liberty Street in an unmetered spot and walked a few minutes down Main to the courthouse. It wasn't much longer of a walk than I have every day from my monthly lot to my office in the opposite corner of downtown - but it was nice not to have to pay money out of pocket to perform my obligatory civic duty. I actually found a $20 bill on the sidewalk on Liberty as soon as I stepped out of my car - I used it to get an Adriatico's pizza. I was also let off of jury duty that day and ended up not having to come back. Talk about win-win.

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On 9/3/2019 at 10:52 AM, jjakucyk said:

I agree with what you're saying, but at the same time you have to look at it from the point of view of someone making rational decisions based on the situation at hand.  If the choice is between a 20 minute drive with an employer-provided parking space or a 40 minute bus ride (with another 10-20 minutes walking on either end) and no flexibility then it's pretty difficult to take the high road.  Moving closer in is tough with housing prices being so inflated right now. 

 

Sure. I don't deny any of that. But wasn't the discussion about how easy it is (or not) to park? My point is that it is very easy, especially compared to taking transit--which is why so many people make the rational decision to drive. 

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2 minutes ago, seaswan said:

Almost looks like theyre planning on that. Wonder if theres something we dont know. 

 

There might be something planned, but I'd say it is more likely they just did this because that wall goes all the way up to the property line. Pretty come in those cases. So if anything ever is built next door you don't have windows facing a wall.

Edited by DEPACincy

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17 minutes ago, DEPACincy said:

 

There might be something planned, but I'd say it is more likely they just did this because that wall goes all the way up to the property line. Pretty come in those cases. So if anything ever is built next door you don't have windows facing a wall.

 

I can't imagine that parking lot will still be an empty lot in 5 years time, so that makes sense. It would make good sense for that to be a new phase for the developer if this one sells quick enough. 

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This is a really great project, I hope it leases very well and they start quickly across the street on 8th street.

 

Also, that whole Main Street area seems on the come up a bit, I think Anderson Birkla was going to start soon on the project at 830 Main for 60 Apartments with possibly a new building next door at some point too:

 

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2019/06/19/downtown-office-building-to-be-converted-to-60.html

 

"Moormann said Anderson Birkla would like to start on the 830 Main project this year as the building is almost entirely vacant. The developer is looking at a potential second phase adjacent to the existing building."

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Crane was removed this weekend. Photo from RoadMapCincy:

 

EJnLzaxW4AUoH32?format=jpg&name=4096x409

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“All truly great thoughts are conceived while walking.”
-Friedrich Nietzsche

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19 minutes ago, DEPACincy said:

12/23

 

8Main1.jpg

8Main2.jpg

Here’s to hoping that the second tower is still in the works and if so hopefully starts as soon as this one is completed.

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I assume they will wait for the first tower to be completed and see how well it does before committing to building a second tower. Not that I think they will have any trouble filling these apartments.

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2 hours ago, taestell said:

I assume they will wait for the first tower to be completed and see how well it does before committing to building a second tower. Not that I think they will have any trouble filling these apartments.

Are these the micro apartments or are they traditional apartments?

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On ‎12‎/‎23‎/‎2019 at 4:13 PM, Ucgrad2015 said:

Here’s to hoping that the second tower is still in the works and if so hopefully starts as soon as this one is completed.

Are they still talking about the second tower or has that been shelved?

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On 12/30/2019 at 10:00 AM, Brutus_buckeye said:

Are they still talking about the second tower or has that been shelved?


I don't think there were ever concrete plans for it, but they have mentioned the possibility in passing. I'm sure they'll wait until they can prove this one is successful, and then try to mirror it across the street. But I don't know that for sure.

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Rick Greiwe and Terrex originally wanted to build two condo towers at that intersection, but they couldn't make it work as condos, and they sold the project to North American Properties and NorthPointe Group to build as apartments. I have not seen the second building mentioned at all since the new developers took over.

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By no concrete plans, I mean they haven't been actively pursuing architectural drawings or even really working on it for a while. I imagine they might have some rough pro-formas and had the designers of the south building do some basic calcs on number of units possible and unit types just to get a feel for the possibility. But beyond that, I imagine they are going to wait until this building fully leases out before pursuing anything. This is all my guess since they haven't mentioned a north tower for a while, and maybe this development team hasn't mentioned it at all per @taestell. I wouldn't expect to hear any news about a north tower in 2020. Again, no insider knowledge on my part.

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33 minutes ago, Chas Wiederhold said:

Architecturally, I find it odd to see John Senhauser go from the iconic skin of Encore to the very restrained and somewhat pedestrian surface of this building. 

 

I'd go with "more refined and sophisticated."  The color-changing aspect of Encore is cool, but it still looks like a shipping container. 

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Color changing shipping container architecture is, perhaps, the post-apocalyptic aesthetic moment we are at right now. And if not, the aesthetic moment we deserve.

 

"Refined and sophisticated" for me would require richer material. Maybe it will have a glazed tile base. Then it will be refined and sophisticated.

 

I don't disagree that it will stand the test of time, but only as a background building. Which is totally cool. Not every building, especially domestic buildings, need to be ostentatious. 

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I could be wrong, but it seems like the corner of the building slightly cantilevers over the public right-of-way of the sidewalk.

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6 minutes ago, taestell said:

I could be wrong, but it seems like the corner of the building slightly cantilevers over the public right-of-way of the sidewalk.

 

It does*. I was looking at it a few months ago, and it definitely cantilevers slightly. I don't know if it actually goes over the ROW, or if it is still on the property line. The building could step back slightly from the official ROW, but without looking at surveyor marks it's impossible to know for sure.

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I think a lot of folks don't realize is this project went through a number of V.E. options to make it viable for the bank to loan Griewe and North American the money. Senhauser originally intended for higher end materials but they were removed for more economical products. Overall i think it looks good, could have been something really ugly...

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Just now, savadams13 said:

I think a lot of folks don't realize is this project went through a number of V.E. options to make it viable for the bank to loan Griewe and North American the money. Senhauser originally intended for higher end materials but they were removed for more economical products. Overall i think it looks good, could have been something really ugly...


I don't think it'll stand out as great, but it's definitely not bad IMO. It's nothing like the ugly stuff all over CUF and Corryville going up. I'm fine with this, personally.

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The other part that is cool about this is it kind of starts to extend the downtown a bit more (I know this is technically downtown already) but, spreads out the skyline and adds some awesome diversity to Main Street. I always considered this stretch of Main Street as OTR in my mind, I think if we can get another tower in there to the north and west, and then add in the Bank building redevelopment by I believe Birkla, it should really allow that area to thrive. 

 

The Public LIbrary redevelopment will be huge too especially if they add on a large residential portion. 

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3 hours ago, IAGuy39 said:

I always considered this stretch of Main Street as OTR in my mind, I think if we can get another tower in there to the north and west, and then add in the Bank building redevelopment by I believe Birkla, it should really allow that area to thrive. 

 

Main Street's historic architecture is surprisingly intact from roughly 6th Street to Liberty. Obviously there are a handful of places along that stretch where historic buildings have been demolished for parking lots, but for the most part it's only stretch of 3 or 4 missing buildings before the fabric resumes. (The biggest exception is probably the block between Central Parkway and 12th, where we are likely to lose every historic building on the west side of the street, as the demolition of the Davis Furniture building seems inevitable.) If we can fill in the gaps with new development (and revamp the intersection of Central Parkway and Main which is a pretty big psychological barrier in its current state), this has the potential to be one of the best stretches of fine-grained urbanism in the city.

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