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I like how EVD pretends 130 million ballots in the USPS would somehow overload the system. They process 506.4 million pieces of mail every day. Give people a few weeks to vote by mail. It won't shut down the whole thing. If you still want to vote in person early or in person on election day, that should still be an option.

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Do you also think that absentee ballots should be eliminated? Anyone that's out of the state or out of the country must return to their home precinct to cast their vote on Election Day?

wow, the Board of Elections people in Hamilton Co. can actually do that? In New York they're basically functionally illiterate. When did I suggest that absentee voting should be eliminated? That's a legitimate use for people living outside the country or disabled people, not for people who can get off of their duff and function normally on a day-to-day basis. Why don't we have online voting? You'll never have to leave the house!

 

About 99 percent of what you're saying is just bizarre and not worth even arguing (you seriously support restricting voting to just one day a year? Are you even reading your own statements?) But then you start making sense at the end. Why can't we have online voting with highly encrypted, dedicated servers when it works (mostly) well for e-commerce. All the money that we put into in-person funding should be directed into the infrastructure required for secure online voting.

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^ With all the "Russiagate" allegations flying around in the wake of 2016, no one would ever trust the legitimacy of any sort of online voting, no matter how secure it was. The party that lost the first presidential election online would never shut up about it having been hacked. And there would always be some risk - anything connected to the internet can be hacked, and a target as juicy as an election would be ripe for attempts. There's a reason the most important information and equipment is always air gapped - it's the only surefire way to keep it safe from hacking.

 

I think the way Ohio votes is one of the most secure. The machines that scan/count ballots are air gapped, and bipartisan elections officials and volunteers are tasked with ensuring the counts. There's a physical ballot, as well, so there's a hard copy record should the digital results ever be questioned. The decentralization of voting locations is also key to security - to actually hack/change votes, someone would need physical access to equipment, and each location would only yield a couple thousand votes, so they'd need said access to dozens or hundreds of locations. It's simply not possible. If everyone mails in a ballot, or fills it out online, you open yourself up to all sorts of vulnerabilities. 

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I love the idea of online voting in theory and believe that a system could be developed that is far more secure than paper ballots. However I think the general public will not have confidence in a system that does not have a physical paper trail. I also think the public and the media will be worried that people will vote using other people's names, i.e., a teenager will get ahold of their parents logins and vote for them.

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I still fail to see the risk. If the same process is being followed with every person who registers to vote, why does it matter if you're registering in advance or on the day of the election? Ohio even lets people who don't want to get off their duff register to vote online.

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all I'm saying is that if you just have voting for one day--as it has been traditionally done (I don't think anyone on this forum is so young to remember a time when that was not the case, right?)--everyone involved in the process is focused, within a narrow timeframe, on just getting the job done without the potential of ballots going astray (didn't they find a bunch of ballots magically stuffed in the back of a car trunk in one of Al Franken's elections, naturally in his favor?), tasks being duplicated through bureaucratic snafus, or just outright fraud that could be easier to hide if multiple weeks are available for voting.

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^I like all of the statistics you brought with you to reinforce your beliefs that early voting makes our elections less secure. You've convinced me.

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all I'm saying is that if you just have voting for one day--as it has been traditionally done (I don't think anyone on this forum is so young to remember a time when that was not the case, right?)--everyone involved in the process is focused, within a narrow timeframe, on just getting the job done without the potential of ballots going astray (didn't they find a bunch of ballots magically stuffed in the back of a car trunk in one of Al Franken's elections, naturally in his favor?), tasks being duplicated through bureaucratic snafus, or just outright fraud that could be easier to hide if multiple weeks are available for voting.

 

This sounds like nothing more than another attempt to restrict access and make it more difficult to vote.  Through court cases, supported by actual evidence (not anecdotal evidence or hypothesis), it has consistently been found that such efforts disproportionately affects the poor and minorities.  No surprise then that the GOP and its sympathizers seek to restrict voting in every way that they can.  The least they can do is be honest enough to admit their true intentions.  It's the same as gerrymandering.  A bunch of grown-ups trying to hide behind strawmen arguments.  Weak and pathetic.   

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One of the key problems with voting early is that voters make their choices before they have all the relevant information (though, voters without all the info are a key component of Democratic base, so I see why they prefer expanding early voting). Some states allow people to vote a month and a half early - a lot can happen in a month and a half. I would have no problem with mail-in ballots being issued the Friday before election day, and an "alternate" election day on Saturday, for those who need it. But spreading out the voting over a month or two is a terrible idea, IMO, and fundamentally changes the meaning of an "election" - which has, up until the last decade, always been a measure of the populace's opinion at a fixed date in time. Most people (who aren't users of this forum) can and do change their mind over the course of a few months. For instance, if you asked me who to vote for Cincinnati Council right now, my answer would almost certainly be different than it will be when I vote in November.

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I still fail to see the risk. If the same process is being followed with every person who registers to vote, why does it matter if you're registering in advance or on the day of the election? Ohio even lets people who don't want to get off their duff register to vote online.

 

Just speculating here. and I have never registered and voted same day, so I do not know the process. But, theoretically, sending away your registration form gives you a chance to be vetted in case you are registered multiple places or have different aliases, etc.  Was not saying it is less secure, but I figured that could be a potential weakness to the system if you vote same day. However, I don't know for a fact.

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^^Then those people shouldn't vote early.  For my part, I knew exactly who I was voting for in the past three elections, with no chance that I would change my mind.  So, since I was working the polls as an observer on election day to make sure no funny business occurred, I voted early in 2008 and 2012.  I was at the polls from 5am until 11pm on election day, so there was no way I could have made it to my precinct.  Instead, I just stopped by the Bd of Elections sometime that preceding month while I was in the downtown area.  I also brought a few friends who would've been iffy on whether they shoed up on election day since their work schedules are so unpredictable.

 

The mental gymnastics going on here by those advocating for further restrictions on the right to vote is very revealing.

 

Under you 'same day' theory, how would you deal with members of the military stationed overseas?  They vote through absentee ballots and have to make their selections well ahead of election day.  They don't get to wait for the last minute bombshell dropped by Russian hackers or anyone else.

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oh, right, the Russian "hacker" story!  How could we forget that?? When even the ultra-leftist Nation runs a story like this you know it's over :laugh:

 

A New Report Raises Big Questions About Last Year’s DNC Hack

Former NSA experts say it wasn’t a hack at all, but a leak—an inside job by someone with access to the DNC’s system.

 

https://www.thenation.com/article/a-new-report-raises-big-questions-about-last-years-dnc-hack/

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^thanks, I was afraid I wasn't getting through to people. Some things are just common sense.

 

Like being able to detect sarcasm?  :wave:


"Nearly every problem that we have in the USA -- unaffordable health care, prison overpopulation, hyper militarization, climate change, racism, gun violence, poverty, poor education, urban sprawl and others -- cannot be positively addressed because bribery and conflicts of interest are legal under campaign finance laws which protect the uber-wealthy and the narrow self-interests who grossly benefit from our afflictions."

 

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oh, right, the Russian "hacker" story!  How could we forget that?? When even the ultra-leftist Nation runs a story like this you know it's over :laugh:

 

A New Report Raises Big Questions About Last Years DNC Hack

Former NSA experts say it wasnt a hack at all, but a leakan inside job by someone with access to the DNCs system.

 

https://www.thenation.com/article/a-new-report-raises-big-questions-about-last-years-dnc-hack/

 

So since this guy hypothesizes about a result you so desperately want to see become reality, it is not fake news?  Good to know we can now rely on The Nation for news which you will trust as valid.  As for the theory in the article, I'm not ruling it out, but it still flies in the face of what Trump OWN INTELLIGENCE AGENCY appointments have concluded.  And, regardless of how the info was stolen, hacked, or leaked, it was certainly used by the Russians in their support for The Donald...... you know, the support which The Donald knew he was getting (as conclusively, beyond a shadow of a doubt evidenced by the incriminating email chain between his son and who his son thought was a Russian surrogate).

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oh, right, the Russian "hacker" story!  How could we forget that?? When even the ultra-leftist Nation runs a story like this you know it's over :laugh:

 

A New Report Raises Big Questions About Last Year’s DNC Hack

Former NSA experts say it wasn’t a hack at all, but a leak—an inside job by someone with access to the DNC’s system.

 

https://www.thenation.com/article/a-new-report-raises-big-questions-about-last-years-dnc-hack/

 

So since this guy hypothesizes about a result you so desperately want to see become reality, it is not fake news?  Good to know we can now rely on The Nation for news which you will trust as valid.  As for the theory in the article, I'm not ruling it out, but it still flies in the face of what Trump OWN INTELLIGENCE AGENCY appointments have concluded.  And, regardless of how the info was stolen, hacked, or leaked, it was certainly used by the Russians in their support for The Donald...... you know, the support which The Donald knew he was getting (as conclusively, beyond a shadow of a doubt evidenced by the incriminating email chain between his son and who his son thought was a Russian surrogate).

 

Read this story again. There is now a huge retraction.

 

https://www.thenation.com/article/a-new-report-raises-big-questions-about-last-years-dnc-hack/

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The racist Wisconsin GOP redistricting is headed to the Supreme Court, even being questioned by Kasich and Schwarzenegger. Of course Ohio joins North Carolina, Texas, and Wisconsin in setting up their racist gerrymandering.

 

Kasich joins Schwarzenegger in political map-making fight

Kasich signed onto a legal brief that opposes the GOP in the momentous redistricting case being heard by the U.S. Supreme Court this fall. He said other signers include Republicans John McCain, Richard Lugar and Bob Dole. At issue is whether Republican lawmakers in Wisconsin drew legislative districts that favored their party and were so out of whack with the state’s political breakdown that they violated Democratic voters’ constitutional rights.

 

In Ohio, the Republican-controlled map-making system resulted in the party winning nearly two more U.S. House seats and five more Ohio House seats in the last election than would have been expected in neutral circumstances, according to the AP analysis. In congressional races, Republican candidates won 56 percent of the vote in Ohio but 75 percent of the seats.

 

http://www.wcpo.com/news/state/state-ohio/kasich-joins-schwarzenegger-in-political-map-making-fight

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I am totally anti-gerrymander and anti-GOP but I have to knit pick your characterization of these gerrymanders as racist, only in the interest of understanding the case at hand. The Supreme Court has long held racist gerrymandering to be unconstitutional. Recent GOP gerrymandering has, as a byproduct, created many majority black districts in these states and thereby passes the Court's tests for not being a racial  gerrymander, because it doesn't deny representation to black citizens.

 

The issue the court is debating in this case coming up is gerrymandering of the strictly political variety, and if that should be allowed or not. The court has never come out against it before but some people think now that there are more advanced statistical methods to prove it, that Anthony Kennedy might change his mind.

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A startup is working on developing a smart phone-based voting app that would use a block chain to ensure security:

https://voatz.com

 

Obviously, this threatens to increase voter participation from our moribund levels to 90%+ overnight.  So there will be a lot of resistance to actually enabling this. 

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I'd love to increase participation but this sounds extremely unsafe.  If there were a way to "ensure" online security, it would be worth 1.21 jiggadollars.

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^Well blockchains are so far unhackable.  The vulnerabilities for its current use (cryptocurrencies) comes at the exchange point or corruption of a currency storage medium. 

 

So the security challenge lies not in the recording of a valid vote but in other realms -- how do we know the voter actually voted?  What if a labor union called everyone in for a meeting and a boss watched them vote to ensure that they actually vote the way they are supposed to?

 

I do think that with tech, each "solution" just creates new problems. 

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North Carolina Congressional Map Ruled Unconstitutionally Gerrymandered

 

A panel of federal judges struck down North Carolina’s congressional map on Tuesday, declaring it unconstitutionally gerrymandered and demanding that the Republican-controlled General Assembly redraw district lines before this year’s midterm elections.

 

The ruling was the first time that a federal court had blocked a congressional map because the judges believed it to be a partisan gerrymander, and it deepened the political chaos that has enveloped North Carolina in recent years.

 

“We agree with plaintiffs that a wealth of evidence proves the General Assembly’s intent to ‘subordinate’ the interests of non-Republican voters and ‘entrench’ Republican domination of the state’s congressional delegation,” Judge James A. Wynn Jr. wrote in a 191-page opinion that another judge joined in full.

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An increasingly disturbing trend in American politics: Republicans literally refusing to hold elections because they're afraid Democrats might win them. https://t.co/8YIn7kWfEK


"Nearly every problem that we have in the USA -- unaffordable health care, prison overpopulation, hyper militarization, climate change, racism, gun violence, poverty, poor education, urban sprawl and others -- cannot be positively addressed because bribery and conflicts of interest are legal under campaign finance laws which protect the uber-wealthy and the narrow self-interests who grossly benefit from our afflictions."

 

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https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/02/02/582600802/voting-rights-process-for-florida-felons-unconstitutional-say-judge

 

A federal judge has declared unconstitutional Florida's procedure for restoring voting rights to felons who have served their time.

 

In a strongly worded ruling seen as a rebuke of Republican Gov. Rick Scott, who is the lead defendant in the case, U.S. District Judge Mark Walker said the disenfranchisement of felons who have served their time is "nonsensical" and a violation of the First and 14th Amendments to the U.S. Constitution.


Very Stable Genius

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"Nearly every problem that we have in the USA -- unaffordable health care, prison overpopulation, hyper militarization, climate change, racism, gun violence, poverty, poor education, urban sprawl and others -- cannot be positively addressed because bribery and conflicts of interest are legal under campaign finance laws which protect the uber-wealthy and the narrow self-interests who grossly benefit from our afflictions."

 

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https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/13/politics/pennsylvania-gov-veto-redrawn-congressional-map/index.html

 

Pennsylvania's Democratic Gov. Tom Wolf has vetoed a proposed map of Republican-redrawn congressional districts, arguing the map is "a partisan gerrymander" ahead of Thursday's deadline.

 

Pennsylvania's Supreme Court ruled in January that the state's congressional maps must be redrawn this year. The court threw out the Republican-drawn 2011 congressional map, ruling that districts "clearly, plainly and palpably" violate the state's constitution.

 

"The analysis by my team shows that, like the 2011 map, the map submitted to my office by Republican leaders is still a gerrymander," Wolf said in a statement Tuesday. "Their map clearly seeks to benefit one political party, which is the essence of why the court found the current map to be unconstitutional."

 

Good try, GOP.  Good try.


Very Stable Genius

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^ I like Ohio's system. There's a hard copy of the paper ballot and the machines that count them at each precinct are air gapped. It seems pretty simple and straight forward - I'm not sure why it isn't the standard. No equipment that counts/records votes should ever be equipped with a connection to an outside line. Anything that's important and is connected to the internet is automatically going to be a target for nation states and 400 pound hackers alike.

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Well in Hamilton County the voter roll ipads are quite obviously a completely different system than the actual voting scanners.  I would be incredibly wary of a system which integrates both (as does an ATM machine). 

 

What I don't like is how the guys hover over that scanner machine so they can see who you voted for (at least one side) when you slide the ballot in. 

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"Nearly every problem that we have in the USA -- unaffordable health care, prison overpopulation, hyper militarization, climate change, racism, gun violence, poverty, poor education, urban sprawl and others -- cannot be positively addressed because bribery and conflicts of interest are legal under campaign finance laws which protect the uber-wealthy and the narrow self-interests who grossly benefit from our afflictions."

 

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Trump wants Republicans to take it to the Supreme Court lol buddy you ain't winning this fight.


Very Stable Genius

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^ there are those on each side that are complaining. a few R's will lose their seats D's will lose a seat or two in the process and there may be some new blood in the Congress at the end of the day on both sides.

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I haven't been following the Ohio case as much - I saw some "bipartisan" support for "fair elections" or something here but didn't dig into it.  Will the PA case have any impact in Ohio?


Very Stable Genius

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^ I don't think it will affect Ohio since it was the State Supreme Court.  However, Trump want the PA GOP to take it to the US Supreme Court which could backfire if they side with the State SC.

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I thought I read where Ohio entered into a bipartisan agreement recently to create a board to redraw the lines that requires a supermajority vote and has bipartisan representation. This was proposed in 2009 but it was rejected by the Dems who held the state offices at the time. After getting swept from office in 2010, the GOP drew the lines to their advantage. Now after years of complaining they have agreed on the original proposal rejected in 2009

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I thought I read where Ohio entered into a bipartisan agreement recently to create a board to redraw the lines that requires a supermajority vote and has bipartisan representation. This was proposed in 2009 but it was rejected by the Dems who held the state offices at the time. After getting swept from office in 2010, the GOP drew the lines to their advantage. Now after years of complaining they have agreed on the original proposal rejected in 2009

 

I think there has been a new agreement on this.  I hope they redraw the lines soon.  I should be represented by someone in Toledo.

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@ohvoterproject

As of 24 Feb 2018 there are 7,920,044 registered voters in Ohio, up 1,453 from the previous week. 4,494 new voters and 3,041 dropped. A huge number of voters (32,608) were placed in Inactive status this week. And 66,698 had their address changed.  Way higher than normal.

 

Hmmm.  Some interesting stuff going on.


Very Stable Genius

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Hmmm.  Some interesting stuff going on.

 

Was there any speculation as to why?

 

I don't believe so.  Have to ask the account/group if they have any insight.

 

Possibly a back log from previous weeks?


Very Stable Genius

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?This is terrifying?

 

“Trump would be able to dispatch Secret Service agents to polling places nationwide during a federal election, a vast expansion of executive authority, if a provision in a Homeland Security reauthorization bill remains intact.”

 

https://t.co/EYEphN3T9W


"Nearly every problem that we have in the USA -- unaffordable health care, prison overpopulation, hyper militarization, climate change, racism, gun violence, poverty, poor education, urban sprawl and others -- cannot be positively addressed because bribery and conflicts of interest are legal under campaign finance laws which protect the uber-wealthy and the narrow self-interests who grossly benefit from our afflictions."

 

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^

 

“The only time armed Secret Service personnel would be at a polling place would be to facilitate the visiting of one of our protectees while they voted,” Milhoan said.

 

It's always interesting when the tidbit of truth to a story is buried, at the end, in such a sensible quote. Between the headline and the first 95% of that article, you'd think Trump was forming some sort of Gestapo force. Why would a (once respectable) newspaper publish such a fantastical story?

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