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Cincinnati: West End: Development and News

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I view the stairs as a feature, not a bug. Forced exercise inserted into my daily routine. I used to live in a 5th floor walk up and loved that. People live in that situation in cities all over the world without a problem.

 

It is a huge problem when somebody gets hurt or is ill.  I have numerous relatives who have spent their entire adult lives in wheelchairs and we have had to carry them up and down staircases all the time.  Except one moved to one of the super-heavy electric wheelchairs recently and now we can't pick him up so everyone has to go to him for family get-togethers. 

 

A friend from college just broke his hip and had to spend two months in a bed after surgery.  Good luck getting up and down 3-4 floors of steps going to rehab every day for eight months.

 

I mean, yes--there are situations where it is unworkable. But for the vast majority of people it is not an issue. If you're long-term disabled you would not want to live there.

 

 

I recall a conversation I had with a guy who was complaining about new townhouses going up in his town that had garages facing rear alleys. The alleys were too narrow for his dually truck to navigate he said, and he was pissed that the township officials didn't think of that when they were reviewing the site plans. I asked him if he planned on buying one of these townhouses and he said no. "Well then why on earth do you care if they can accommodate your truck? I'd imagine the folks buying them don't have a dually." He looked at me like he just realized the earth is round.

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Neat to see this kind of investment in the far western edge of the West End: https://www.wcpo.com/news/transportation-development/development/cincinnati-s-traction-building-hamilton-s-champion-paper-mill-win-big-in-historic-tax-credits?page=2

 

1035 Dayton St., Cincinnati

Total Project Cost:  $1,061,311

Total Tax Credit:  $106,000

Located in Cincinnati's Dayton Street Historic District, this circa-1874 building contained commercial space on the ground floor with apartments above. After being vacant for approximately 15 years, the building needs extensive rehabilitation work. After the project is complete, the building will have five residential units and one commercial space.

 

 

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Blighted buildings in West End, OTR to undergo transformation

 

290350161186ea513837eo*750xx3600-2029-0-123.jpg

 

Local developers received a combined $189,000 in historic preservation tax credits on Wednesday, paving the way for the renovation of two neglected structures in the heart of Cincinnati.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/06/22/blighted-buildings-in-west-end-otr-to-undergo.html


"You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers

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The two condos that were put on the market on Wade St. back in March or April have failed to sell, despite price reductions.  Maybe we'll see them rented out.

https://www.sibcycline.com/Listing/CIN/1574139/418-Wade-St-1-Cincinnati-OH-45214

 

There have been absolutely zero property sales near the planned FC Cincinnati soccer stadium since it was announced.  So the developer feeding frenzy anticipated by supporters and detractors has yet to materialize. 

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https://www.citybeat.com/news/blog/21013935/this-250unit-apartment-complex-providing-affordable-housing-in-the-west-end-could-change-hands-soon

 

 

Slowly but surely the west end will gentrify thanks in large part to the success of otr, but also because of fcc.

 

I’m supportive of low income housing, but I’m also aware that developers have very little interest in developing neighborhoods that are prodimintley low income...There is still a lot of beautiful historic stock in the old west end. Hopefully that can be salvaged in the next decade.

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Tender Mercies just sold 821 Ezzard Charles to something called "821 Flats, LLC":

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1093736,-84.5284167,3a,48.4y,215.04h,98.13t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s81GcftdJRMaQMlFOhfJbWA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

Looks like a tear down is much more likely than a rehab. 

That's adjacent to the "Arts Apartments" that the previously linked City Beat article reports are for sale.

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821 Flats will be new-construction, developed by OTR Community Housing and Tender Mercies. There will be 53 efficiency apartments and 4 one-bedroom apartments. It will be permanent, supportive housing, with on-site staff, according to this: https://ohiohome.org/ppd/proposals/2017/PermanentSupportiveHousing/17-0012-The821Flats.pdf

 

excellent. My husband and I fundraise every year for Tender Mercies every year at our holiday party, and stuff like this is why.

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929 sold in a week and a half.   

 

809 has been on the market for two or so weeks.

1007 for about a month

909 was listed yesterday

 

It'll be interesting to keep an eye on.    The potential for 1007 Dayton is incredible if someone had some deep pockets to put it back together.

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Baymiller has been on the market for over 6 months.  1007 Dayton was under contract 2 months ago but that fell through and now it's back on the market.  There are various other properties in the west end that have been sitting in purgatory for all of 2018.  One on York, another on Oliver. 

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Those first two on Dayton are absolutely stunning. If this area can ever experience a true revival, and I think it will, getting a building like that for 500k would be a total steal. Thinking about the homes in LA that get those price tags is utterly depressing. I could get this shack in Inglewood for the price of 929 Dayton: https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Inglewood-CA/pmf,pf_pt/20337666_zpid/45888_rid/globalrelevanceex_sort/33.988669,-118.302155,33.9179,-118.394423_rect/13_zm/

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Those first two on Dayton are absolutely stunning. If this area can ever experience a true revival, and I think it will, getting a building like that for 500k would be a total steal. Thinking about the homes in LA that get those price tags is utterly depressing. I could get this shack in Inglewood for the price of 929 Dayton: https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Inglewood-CA/pmf,pf_pt/20337666_zpid/45888_rid/globalrelevanceex_sort/33.988669,-118.302155,33.9179,-118.394423_rect/13_zm/

 

And that $600k price only nets you HALF of an interest in the property. Lunacy.

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And that $600k price only nets you HALF of an interest in the property. Lunacy.

 

Yeah I don't think Inglewood is *horrible*, which is why I think some people of means are moving there, as compared to Watts and Compton, which were still really rough the last time I was there in 2012. 

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Yeah, it's definitely better than Compton, and it's actually going to gentrify really quickly with the new NFL stadium and the Crenshaw rail line that goes right through downtown Inglewood. I was just using it as a quick example of how ludicrous the housing situation is here, and relative to that, how amazingly affordable these beautiful, restored buildings are in the West End. I have to imagine there is a fair amount of property crime still in the WE, though, and I probably wouldn't feel great walking my dog around there after dark, but even still, what a steal.

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I have to imagine there is a fair amount of property crime still in the WE, though, and I probably wouldn't feel great walking my dog around there after dark, but even still, what a steal.

 

Actually not much at all compared to just a few years back from what longer tenured residents say.  Hope not to jinx myself, but other than the typical graffiti here and there I personally haven't seen nor been victim to any type of crime in the 3+ years I've been down here. 

 

For what it is worth, more people walk their dogs in this neighborhood than did my last hood.  Some friends and I stood out on the front sidewalk/street for a few hours til midnight just shooting the shit after the Reds game Friday night.  Last words they said when they were leaving to head home were "Man, surprisingly it's really quiet down here"

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Here are the interesting July property sales for the West End:

 

NEHEMIAH MANUFACTURING COMPANY LLC to PUBLIC LIBRARY OF CINCINNATI AND HAMILTON COUNTY  $1,750,000

 

927 FINDLAY ST  UNIVERSAL LIFE CHURCH OF CINCINNATI to FAMILY FUNERAL CENTERS LLC  $576,320 

 

930 FINDLAY ST  UNIVERSAL LIFE CHURCH OF CINCINNATI to FAMILY FUNERAL CENTERS LLC  $576,320 

 

931 FINDLAY ST  UNIVERSAL LIFE CHURCH OF CINCINNATI to FAMILY FUNERAL CENTERS LLC  $576,320 

 

933 FINDLAY ST  UNIVERSAL LIFE CHURCH OF CINCINNATI to FAMILY FUNERAL CENTERS LLC  $576,320 

 

935 FINDLAY ST  UNIVERSAL LIFE CHURCH OF CINCINNATI to FAMILY FUNERAL CENTERS LLC  $576,320 

 

937 FINDLAY ST  UNIVERSAL LIFE CHURCH OF CINCINNATI to FAMILY FUNERAL CENTERS LLC  $576,320 

 

1722 FREEMAN AVE  UNIVERSAL LIFE CHURCH OF CINCINNATI to FAMILY FUNERAL CENTERS LLC  $576,320 

 

1724 FREEMAN AVE  UNIVERSAL LIFE CHURCH OF CINCINNATI to FAMILY FUNERAL CENTERS LLC  $576,320 

 

1726 FREEMAN AVE  UNIVERSAL LIFE CHURCH OF CINCINNATI to FAMILY FUNERAL CENTERS LLC  $576,320 

 

1728 FREEMAN AVE  UNIVERSAL LIFE CHURCH OF CINCINNATI to FAMILY FUNERAL CENTERS LLC  $576,320 

 

1730 FREEMAN AVE  UNIVERSAL LIFE CHURCH OF CINCINNATI to FAMILY FUNERAL CENTERS LLC 

 

 

So what is the library's big plan for this place?

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1163369,-84.5355947,3a,60y,48.79h,86.07t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sa_I3SW2G9u0xVfjZtFi8YQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

 

 

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This was publicized a couple of weeks ago: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/07/17/public-library-buys-west-end-industrial-building.html

 

It will be the Library's centralized distribution facility, essentially just for storing books and then using the loading docks to truck the books between the branches as necessary.

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There are a bunch of workers at the Lafayette-Bloom school today, with lifts painting the windows doing some interior work (not sure what exactly). I'm glad to see work being done. Painting windows is usually done towards the end of a project (especially since it seems like lots of the windows will need at least some of the glass panes replaced), so I'm not sure why they're painting right now... but whatever the case, it's good to see activity there.

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^They are trying to avoid fines from last years West End Blitz (NEP).  I assure you, this is nothing to get excited about yet. 

I'm fairly convinced that the current owners Zada, will not be the ones that see these projects through. (Bloom and Herbele School)    http://zadadevelopmentgroup.com/

 

Interesting. I was surprised to see several guys working on the interior as well though. Maybe Zada is prepping it for a sale?

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^They are trying to avoid fines from last years West End Blitz (NEP).  I assure you, this is nothing to get excited about yet. 

I'm fairly convinced that the current owners Zada, will not be the ones that see these projects through. (Bloom and Herbele School)    http://zadadevelopmentgroup.com/

 

Interesting. I was surprised to see several guys working on the interior as well though. Maybe Zada is prepping it for a sale?

 

Based on that site it t looks like this is the only current product Zada has, and the only past project was a bland commercial building? I hope you are right and they sell this for a slight bump to someone who will follow through. Dude looks like he does this as a side job to tell people he is a developer at parties.

 

https://www.google.com/maps/place/690+E+Hwy+50,+Clermont,+FL+34711/@28.5486018,-81.746855,3a,51.2y,21.98h,89.47t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1spZS4K_d56EPTirduWpndOw!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo3.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DpZS4K_d56EPTirduWpndOw%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dsearch.TACTILE.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D86%26h%3D86%26yaw%3D25.273514%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656!4m5!3m4!1s0x88e78eefeda14571:0x5d8ef020c82daca4!8m2!3d28.5490599!4d-81.746611

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Somebody trying to sell a shell on Baymiller for $88,000:

https://www.sibcycline.com/Listing/CIN/1589178/1813-Baymiller-St-Cincinnati-OH-45214

 

...and another one for $90,000:

https://www.sibcycline.com/Listing/CIN/1594872/2129-Colerain-Ave-Cincinnati-OH-45214

 

...and another one for $133,000:

https://www.sibcycline.com/Listing/CIN/1589180/1819-Baymiller-St-Cincinnati-OH-45214

 

...and another one for $140,000:

https://www.sibcycline.com/Listing/CIN/1589178/1813-Baymiller-St-Cincinnati-OH-45214

 

 

These prices are ridiculous.  Vacant homes were selling in the West End for $20,000 two years ago.  Anyone who pays $100k~ for one of those listings is a fool. 

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^I really highly doubt that the FC Cincy stadium is going to spur any type of redevelopment whatsoever of parts of the neighborhood like Baymiller.

 

The only thing it will do IMO is possibly reinforce some people to live in OTR / mixed used apartments they develop directly around the site.

 

I don't mean to sound like a "know it all" but there isn't going to be any soccer bros or suburban soccer fans that walk onto Baymiller Street and say, "Ya know, I'm going to fork out 100k to buy this empty shell". I think where that is happening in the West End is on Dayton Street and even then it isn't like gangbusters. I'm pretty certain that area has a lot of crime and even would be difficult for folks living on Vine Street now to contemplate living there at the moment. Sorry if anyone takes that the wrong way, but it is a tough, poverty stricken area of town.

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Somebody trying to sell a shell on Baymiller for $88,000:

https://www.sibcycline.com/Listing/CIN/1589178/1813-Baymiller-St-Cincinnati-OH-45214

 

...and another one for $90,000:

https://www.sibcycline.com/Listing/CIN/1594872/2129-Colerain-Ave-Cincinnati-OH-45214

 

...and another one for $133,000:

https://www.sibcycline.com/Listing/CIN/1589180/1819-Baymiller-St-Cincinnati-OH-45214

 

...and another one for $140,000:

https://www.sibcycline.com/Listing/CIN/1589178/1813-Baymiller-St-Cincinnati-OH-45214

 

 

These prices are ridiculous.  Vacant homes were selling in the West End for $20,000 two years ago.  Anyone who pays $100k~ for one of those listings is a fool. 

 

That last URL is wrong. The property that is listed for $140k is 1817 Baymiller: https://www.sibcycline.com/Listing/CIN/1589179/1817-Baymiller-St-Cincinnati-OH-45214

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Those shells seem to have clear polycarbonate window coverings on the street-side facades, instead plywood... which reminds me that an Ohio law was passed in early 2017 (I think) that prohibited plywood on vacant buildings. Anybody know the status of that plywood ban? I haven't seen any other buildings use the polycarbonate clear boards, so it doesn't seem like the law is in effect.

 

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/money/2017/01/05/ohio-plywood-ban/96201288/

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That's a pretty ridiculous and unenforceable law. There are probably thousands of buildings in the city that already have boards, and good luck tracking down the owners for compliance. It's also just silly to think someone who is boarding up an old building is going to invest in something as expensive as polycarbonate when more often than not they use whats at hand. Doors, sheet metal, plastic, etc.

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That's a pretty ridiculous and unenforceable law. There are probably thousands of buildings in the city that already have boards, and good luck tracking down the owners for compliance. It's also just silly to think someone who is boarding up an old building is going to invest in something as expensive as polycarbonate when more often than not they use whats at hand. Doors, sheet metal, plastic, etc.

I agree that vacant building owners wouldn't want to do this... but if enforced (by fining non-compliant owners), it would a) generate some revenue for the City, b) encourage owners to sell properties they've been sitting on, and c) would make the buildings a bit more attractive for neighbors to look at. I care more about the first two effects. Anything that makes it LESS attractive for owners to sit on vacant buildings is a good thing.

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That's a pretty ridiculous and unenforceable law. There are probably thousands of buildings in the city that already have boards, and good luck tracking down the owners for compliance. It's also just silly to think someone who is boarding up an old building is going to invest in something as expensive as polycarbonate when more often than not they use whats at hand. Doors, sheet metal, plastic, etc.

I agree that vacant building owners wouldn't want to do this... but if enforced (by fining non-compliant owners), it would a) generate some revenue for the City, b) encourage owners to sell properties they've been sitting on, and c) would make the buildings a bit more attractive for neighbors to look at. I care more about the first two effects. Anything that makes it LESS attractive for owners to sit on vacant buildings is a good thing.

 

Similar law in Philly is strictly enforced and has been very successful.

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That's a pretty ridiculous and unenforceable law. There are probably thousands of buildings in the city that already have boards, and good luck tracking down the owners for compliance. It's also just silly to think someone who is boarding up an old building is going to invest in something as expensive as polycarbonate when more often than not they use whats at hand. Doors, sheet metal, plastic, etc.

I agree that vacant building owners wouldn't want to do this... but if enforced (by fining non-compliant owners), it would a) generate some revenue for the City, b) encourage owners to sell properties they've been sitting on, and c) would make the buildings a bit more attractive for neighbors to look at. I care more about the first two effects. Anything that makes it LESS attractive for owners to sit on vacant buildings is a good thing.

 

Or just as likely they allow the fines and other liens on the property to accumulate, making it harder to sell at anything but a windfall, which is what these speculators are waiting for anyway.  The whole VMBL program came about for similar reasons, but has in many cases made it more difficult for little guys to buy such properties with all the added encumbrances. 

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Yeah... I don't know exactly where the VBML (Vacant Building Maintenance License) system falls down, but it doesn't seem to be working as intended. It seems like moving cases through the courts takes too long.

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^I really highly doubt that the FC Cincy stadium is going to spur any type of redevelopment whatsoever of parts of the neighborhood like Baymiller.

 

The only thing it will do IMO is possibly reinforce some people to live in OTR / mixed used apartments they develop directly around the site.

 

I don't mean to sound like a "know it all" but there isn't going to be any soccer bros or suburban soccer fans that walk onto Baymiller Street and say, "Ya know, I'm going to fork out 100k to buy this empty shell". I think where that is happening in the West End is on Dayton Street and even then it isn't like gangbusters. I'm pretty certain that area has a lot of crime and even would be difficult for folks living on Vine Street now to contemplate living there at the moment. Sorry if anyone takes that the wrong way, but it is a tough, poverty stricken area of town.

 

I agree, I think that the West End is much farther from gentrifying than speculators want to believe.  Over-the-Rhine's vacant buildings are far from being fully renovated and there are still many empty lots where single-family homes can be built.  Including the hillside streets, there is space for literally hundreds of single-family homes.  With 10-20 being built each year, it'll take at least 10 years before space really starts running out and a market will exist for $700,000 homes on...Baymiller St. 

 

 

 

 

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The vacant hillside lots are very expensive to build on though.  It's a good first assumption that if a hillside lot is vacant, it's because the house that was there had some sort of stability issue that accelerated its demise.  That needs to be addressed in anything new.  The foundations and geotechnical engineering and access issues make doing anything small or cheap pretty hard, and the zoning/parking requirements can force you into single-family anyway which means you can't amortize those footprint costs among more units.  I looked at a couple vacant lots for a potential client on Mulberry Street and every contractor I talked to was in the $600K range for a relatively simple 1,800 SF home.  Go bigger and that cost per SF goes down, even though the total price doesn't.  That's Hyde Park/Indian Hill money, but not over-the-top high end either.  Except in this case it's going into unexciting concrete, not slate roofs, bluestone terraces, Carrara tile, and Wolf/Sub-Zero appliances. 

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