Jump to content
KJP

Housing Market & Trends

Recommended Posts

The pandemic and stay at home orders are not going to last forever. Micro units will be fine for the people they are geared towards. When I lived in downtown Cleveland, I had a 600sft apartment, and apart from sleeping, I spent all of my time in about 350sft of space. It was more than enough, because I was downtown and had the entire city worth of space to live in. If I was back in that time of my life, I'd jump at the idea of one of the micro units like they proposed in the Flats, mostly because it would be much more affordable.

 

Plus, isn't one of the big groups these are marketed towards college students? I don't think they would necessarily be effected by having to work from home in case of a future pandemic. I don't think that line of reasoning to argue against these really works because the people these are marketed towards and who would be renting these are not the typical group to be working from home (college students, restaurant/retail workers). Work from home office workers would generally be able to afford something larger to begin with.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Clefan98 said:

 

Your logic seems off....Why can someone leave their house, but not their 300' apartment? Your first premise is bunk so I didn't even bother reading points 2 or 3.

For one, things are a bit more restrictive in NYC. Also, the whole premise of living in a 300 Sq ft apartment is mostly to have a place to rest your head at night and maybe relax on a weekend/rainy morning. The point is you are not there often, your life is living in the city. Well, the city is now closed, so you have no place to be. Yes, you can go to the park, but for the most part you are working from home, and spending all day at home. It gets cramped in there. Plus, many of these places have community gathering spots, given the need to social distance, a lot of those spaces are now closed. The dorm style living does not seem as appealing as it did 3-4 months ago, as people would rather have more space during this time. 

I dont think it is an indictment on urban living, but think we will see a bit of a drop off for a bit. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But we don't live in New York City. Frankly, I couldn't care less about the development situation going forward in New York City unless it can somehow benefit Cleveland, such as NYC going underwater from climate change or NYC-area residents hating de Blasio's incompetence so much they couldn't wait to get away.

 

BTW, we have some new residents on our block from New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania and California. My realtor who advises me on my condo flips says they're getting some people from NYC who didn't want to be living under its restrictions and wanted to save some money while living in an urban setting during this downturn so they came to Greater Cleveland (Lakewood). He says they like it here and are considering staying. I also sold a condo flip in my building to a woman from California who wanted to get away from the traffic and high-cost of the Bay Area -- but that was before the pandemic. She says she's even happier about her decision now.


"Nearly every problem that we have in the USA -- unaffordable health care, prison overpopulation, hyper militarization, climate change, racism, gun violence, poverty, poor education, urban sprawl and others -- cannot be positively addressed because bribery and conflicts of interest are legal under campaign finance laws which protect the uber-wealthy and the narrow self-interests who grossly benefit from our afflictions."

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, KJP said:

But we don't live in New York City. Frankly, I couldn't care less about the development situation going forward in New York City unless it can somehow benefit Cleveland, such as NYC going underwater from climate change or NYC-area residents hating de Blasio's incompetence so much they couldn't wait to get away.

 

BTW, we have some new residents on our block from New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania and California. My realtor who advises me on my condo flips says they're getting some people from NYC who didn't want to be living under its restrictions and wanted to save some money while living in an urban setting during this downturn so they came to Greater Cleveland (Lakewood). He says they like it here and are considering staying. I also sold a condo flip in my building to a woman from California who wanted to get away from the traffic and high-cost of the Bay Area -- but that was before the pandemic. She says she's even happier about her decision now.

I think you are going to be seeing that in many places in the Midwest. Especially as the Corona Virus opens up peoples ability to work remotely, people will start to realize that there is not as much benefit to living in Silicon Valley or New York as there used to be and they can have the same urban experience in say Cleveland or Cincinnati for 1/2 the cost, plus it would be more accessible and they could do more. 

 

I had a friend who wanted to work for a big law firm in NYC many years ago to get the experience of living in New York. I would come to NYC monthly to visit them and enjoy spending time in the city. My friend often had to work most of the visit anyway, because that is what his job required so I was often exploring by myself and even hanging out by myself or with other friends who joined me. We used to joke that I spent more time "living"  in NY with my weekend trips, than he did because he was tied to his office the entire time. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, DEPACincy said:

 

My house is like 2000 square feet, but I've spent most of my time in just a couple rooms. Work in the dining room, watch tv in the den, cook in the kitchen, sleep in my room. The guest bedrooms and extra bathroom don't really change my experience since I'm not going to be in them ever anyway. I would probably have the same experience in half the space.

 

More important to my mental health during this time has been that I live in a dense neighborhood with lots of sidewalks, multiple parks, and businesses I can walk to. I don't need to drive to Kroger to get a loaf of bread or a six pack of beer. It's saved me a TON of stress.

I think a 2000' house in a urban area is an ideal setting for something like this. It offers space between neighbors but you are in a walkable community and have amenities nearby to walk to when needed. My main point about the micro apartments was the common communal areas they promote (essentially dorm living) that do not really do much to assist with the social distancing part.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

I think you are going to be seeing that in many places in the Midwest. Especially as the Corona Virus opens up peoples ability to work remotely, people will start to realize that there is not as much benefit to living in Silicon Valley or New York as there used to be and they can have the same urban experience in say Cleveland or Cincinnati for 1/2 the cost, plus it would be more accessible and they could do more. 

 

 

This is really important for the rest of the country if it catches on. There's no sense in having to pay Silicon Valley wages for work that can be done elsewhere. The internet was supposed to even out where the money was in this country but instead sucked it all into Seattle, San Francisco/Silicon Valley, Austin and a couple other hot spots. That pushed up the cost of living and doing business in those cities so high that you have to pay someone $250,000 for $100,000 worth of work.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, PoshSteve said:

The pandemic and stay at home orders are not going to last forever. Micro units will be fine for the people they are geared towards. When I lived in downtown Cleveland, I had a 600sft apartment, and apart from sleeping, I spent all of my time in about 350sft of space. It was more than enough, because I was downtown and had the entire city worth of space to live in. If I was back in that time of my life, I'd jump at the idea of one of the micro units like they proposed in the Flats, mostly because it would be much more affordable.

 

 

 

Really, the huge bedrooms seen in so much single-family and even quite a bit of multi-family today are completely pointless for the vast majority of people. That's one thing that can easily go.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, GCrites80s said:

 

This is really important for the rest of the country if it catches on. There's no sense in having to pay Silicon Valley wages for work that can be done elsewhere. The internet was supposed to even out where the money was in this country but instead sucked it all into Seattle, San Francisco/Silicon Valley, Austin and a couple other hot spots. That pushed up the cost of living and doing business in those cities so high that you have to pay someone $250,000 for $100,000 worth of work.

There was a trend for a while before the last recession where Silicon Valley was losing workers to other parts of the country, but I remember when Marissa Mayer was at Yahoo, she famously shut down remote working arrangements and worked to bring everything back in house in Silicon Valley.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, GCrites80s said:

 

This is really important for the rest of the country if it catches on. There's no sense in having to pay Silicon Valley wages for work that can be done elsewhere. The internet was supposed to even out where the money was in this country but instead sucked it all into Seattle, San Francisco/Silicon Valley, Austin and a couple other hot spots. That pushed up the cost of living and doing business in those cities so high that you have to pay someone $250,000 for $100,000 worth of work.

 

Even better for the rest of the country, there's no sense in having to pay Silicon Valley and Manhattan real estate prices if workers can be located elsewhere, and workers can hopefully still command the same paychecks (after all, much work is of equivalent value regardless of where it's performed).

 

Starting salaries at Jones Day in Cleveland are basically the same as at their NYC office.

 

My wife's paycheck is essentially a Dallas paycheck.  It goes further in Akron.  When she was at Bridgestone, we looked at Nashville a few times, but the lateral jobs that she'd have qualified for in Nashville did not come with any real cost-of-living adjustment vis-a-vis Akron.  I know Nashville and Dallas aren't the most expensive places out there, but Akron still lets you stretch those dollars quite a bit further.  I certainly wouldn't be talking about buying a 6000sf home in Dallas.

 

I have a friend who does online financial information security for Square.  He worked in the Bay area for a few years; he's now moved back to Akron where he grew up.  I don't think he took a pay cut when he left the super-expensive market.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think you can't underestimate how many of these decisions are made by Mr. SVP, who just wants to look out into the office and see a bunch of people working hard. That's why some companies did not allow any remote work before Covid-19, and will probably go right back to requiring most employees to be in the office 4 days per week when this is all over. The only reason it won't go back to 5 is because we now have "proof" the company does not fall apart when people work from home.

 

For about 7 years I worked for a small consulting company in Cincinnati that specialized in niche technologies. Our clients tended to be bigger companies based in bigger, more expensive cities. I spent a huge percentage of my time as a consultant flying across the country, so that I could work in a cubicle in the client's office, rather than working from my company's office in Cincinnati or my home office. Even during projects where I was literally just programming (so I wasn't in very many meetings and didn't need face-to-face time with anyone), some clients would spend an enormous amount of money on travel expenses so that I could stare at a computer screen in Seattle or San Jose rather than in Cincinnati.

 

At the end of the day, the only reason for it is because when Mr. SVP walks through the cube farm, he wants to see that people are working. (Especially when they have hired expensive consultants, but I think it applies to full-time employees too.) The amount of money that it costs is irrelevant to them.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah I don't get why people are in such a hurry to hide from their bosses.  It's basically impossible to position yourself to get promoted if you're an unknown person on email chains.  

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, jmecklenborg said:

Yeah I don't get why people are in such a hurry to hide from their bosses.  It's basically impossible to position yourself to get promoted if you're an unknown person on email chains.  

 

 

 

Depends on the business.   Some of us are working to make achievement and accomplishment more important than politics.

 

Micromanagers that interrupt and know much less than their reports can get in the way of that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Gramarye said:

 

Even better for the rest of the country, there's no sense in having to pay Silicon Valley and Manhattan real estate prices if workers can be located elsewhere, and workers can hopefully still command the same paychecks (after all, much work is of equivalent value regardless of where it's performed).

 

At my former employer any new projects went immediately to our Bay Area branch because their rent was too damn high. It mattered not that our CLE/Cincy/Columbus office personnel were smarter, less costly and had a better work ethic. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What's fueling it, then? Hubris in the C-suite?


“To an Ohio resident - wherever he lives - some other part of his state seems unreal.”

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, GCrites80s said:

Probably justifying keeping the most expensive office open

Exactly, until it was no longer sustainable. I'm sure clients loved being billed at higher rates just so we could have an unnecessary physical presence in SF. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's what I was trying to get at. If it was unnecessary and superfluous, why keep the office going that long?


“To an Ohio resident - wherever he lives - some other part of his state seems unreal.”

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, BigDipper 80 said:

That's what I was trying to get at. If it was unnecessary and superfluous, why keep the office going that long?

 

The C-Suite execs would probably rather live in SF. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, BigDipper 80 said:

That's what I was trying to get at. If it was unnecessary and superfluous, why keep the office going that long?

 

 "Hubris in the C-suite" is the best description. I've had some really dumb bosses lol. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, DEPACincy said:

 

The C-Suite execs would probably rather live in SF. 

 

Hey, that's how Columbus landed the Sbarro HQ.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Thoughts on this? Should rental costs follow wages, or should wages following housing $?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Housing ends up following wages. This is why simply raising the minimum wage doesn't actually help the poor: housing and healthcare take all the money leaving none for the individual or consumer spending. The way to make things actually better is to remove healthcare costs and focus on ways to keep monthly mandatory bills down.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, smith said:

Residential real estate in C.H. right now is insane. I can’t speak to high priced properties but I’m licensed (just on the side from reg job, so do very few transactions) and helping my cousin buy a house and good houses under $200k are going instantly with multiple offers often selling for more than ask. I know Lakewood was like that a few years ago but I don’t think C.H. was. But is now and I’m actually pretty surprised it’s as active as it is especially with COVID. I’ve never seen C.H. as much of a seller’s market as it is right now. 

 

1 hour ago, Htsguy said:

This may well be a "certain price point/limited supply" phenomenom.  My sister in Hudson just sold her house last Saturday after one day on the market.  She had multiple bids and it sold for over the asking price.  Her friends across the street listed their house yesterday and already have 20 showings scheduled for Saturday and the real estate agent is confident  it will sell that day.  On the other side my sister put bids in on two houses in Cuyahoga Falls and she lost both of them.  Both sold the first day for over asking.

 

 

Redirecting from the Cleveland Heights development thread. I had a small condo in my building here in Lakewood sell for cash at the asking price, which was higher than any condo has ever sold in my building. What is going on? Is it a lack of new housing inventory or housing shortages as some developers say? Thousands of new units are coming on the market, but many are rentals. Even so, why is inventory a problem in a region that supposedly isn't growing in population?

 

Or is something new happening? I and others have noted in other threads a new influx of East Coast, Illinois and California license plates in Greater Cleveland, especially in the "hot" neighborhoods like downtown, Ohio City, Tremont, University Circle, etc. What are others in Greater Cleveland and other Ohio metros seeing in terms of real estate sales/trends?


"Nearly every problem that we have in the USA -- unaffordable health care, prison overpopulation, hyper militarization, climate change, racism, gun violence, poverty, poor education, urban sprawl and others -- cannot be positively addressed because bribery and conflicts of interest are legal under campaign finance laws which protect the uber-wealthy and the narrow self-interests who grossly benefit from our afflictions."

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

 

Redirecting from the Cleveland Heights development thread. I had a small condo in my building here in Lakewood sell for cash at the asking price, which was higher than any condo has ever sold in my building. What is going on? Is it a lack of new housing inventory or housing shortages as some developers say? Thousands of new units are coming on the market, but many are rentals. Even so, why is inventory a problem in a region that supposedly isn't growing in population?

 

Or is something new happening? I and others have noted in other threads a new influx of East Coast, Illinois and California license plates in Greater Cleveland, especially in the "hot" neighborhoods like downtown, Ohio City, Tremont, University Circle, etc. What are others in Greater Cleveland and other Ohio metros seeing in terms of real estate sales/trends?

I know for a fact Mentor/East side has been booming as well. Sold my condo in a day for the highest price ever in the development on the Mentor/Concord border. Then bought my house the day the listing came up. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My sister's agent definitely said a limited supply right now is driving much of this, especially if your house is in decent shape (badly priced wrecks are still sitting forever).  People are just not listing their houses right now like they would in a typical spring selling season.  That said, Hudson has been hot for a while.  My brother has been looking intensively for about two years for a ranch in Hudson as he down sizes from his huge place in Bainbridge (which he will definitely have problems selling giving the price point) and it seems everything was selling in two or three days over list (he will never pay over list if he doesn't think the price is worth it even though he can afford it which is the reason he loses out on so many houses)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, Foraker said:

 

Are you seeing a north-south divide in those numbers?  Is north-of-Mayfield selling as well?

That's  good question.  I can't answer as we are generally looking in the S and UH.  And yeah, Hudson and Chagrin Falls have both been popular for a while and certainly Lakewood.  But while Lakewood had been booming the past several years CH seemed to be humming along as normal.  But I've never seen this amount of activity that you have multiples, often above ask.  I know of someone getting 16% above ask.  So this is all anecdotal my pure speculation on why CH is that interest rates are low, supply is low (I guess??), and maybe bigger is the ability (though getting much harder) to get a quality home for $150k or less close to downtown / university circle.  In a pandemic no less!

Edited by smith

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

South Euclid has been similar with CH. For quite some time now (at least over a year) our market has been hotter than it has been before. Last month was probably our best month since before the housing crash. The number of sales wasn't much changed from how its been each month for the last few years, but the average sales price was much higher. We had hardly any under 80k, and few that were under 100k even. More houses transferred for over 150k than under 100k. The houses that have been rehabbed, or at least updated, have been selling fast. 4165 Stilmore Rd (https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/4165-Stilmore-Rd_Cleveland_OH_44121_M34197-20906#photo19) is what I would call a typical South Euclid bungalow, and typical of many houses throughout the inner ring in Cleveland. Its been on the market for 9 days as of today for 145k. They were under contract the same day they listed. I think the Cleveland housing market is doing pretty well when there is a hot and profitable market for rehabbing and reselling bungalows. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, KJP said:

Or is something new happening? I and others have noted in other threads a new influx of East Coast, Illinois and California license plates in Greater Cleveland, especially in the "hot" neighborhoods like downtown, Ohio City, Tremont, University Circle, etc. What are others in Greater Cleveland and other Ohio metros seeing in terms of real estate sales/trends?

 

We bought our house in Northside, Cincinnati last summer. We put offers on two other houses in the neighborhood, above asking, and got outbid. We came in $10k above asking on the house we got. They had 5 offers on the first day it was on the market. Many of our neighbors are new Cincinnatians. Seems like a lot from California. We have multiple families who moved here from California just on our block. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

People are still searching for homes, but traffic on Zillow does not show more urbanites suddenly looking to move into suburban or rural areas. Nor are waves of home shoppers seeking to flee large cities for smaller ones. What's more, while current and prospective buyers in urban areas are most likely to say the coronavirus pandemic has affected where they want to live, 70% of the nearly 10,700 US adults we surveyed in April say they want to live in an area that is equally or even more urban than the neighborhood where they currently live.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/22/perspectives/homeowners-renters-cities-zillow-coronavirus/index.html

  • Like 1
  • Love 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

  • Like 2

"Nearly every problem that we have in the USA -- unaffordable health care, prison overpopulation, hyper militarization, climate change, racism, gun violence, poverty, poor education, urban sprawl and others -- cannot be positively addressed because bribery and conflicts of interest are legal under campaign finance laws which protect the uber-wealthy and the narrow self-interests who grossly benefit from our afflictions."

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As a 15 year veteran of the restaurant industry I completely agree. There is a ton of wealth in NEOH, but many aren't the flashy type. We don't necessarily get the people drinking 10 grand of overpriced tequilla, but we do have families that eat out twice a week with a $200+ tab for 3 or 4 people.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Could President Biden totally reshape the Section 8 program?

 

Quote

Joe Biden has a housing policy agenda that is ambitious, technically sound, and politically feasible, and that would — if implemented — be life-changing for millions of low-income and housing-insecure households. [...]

 

The centerpiece is simple. Take America’s biggest rental assistance program — Section 8 housing vouchers — and make it available to every family who qualifies. The current funding structure leaves out around 11 million people, simply because the pot allocated by Congress is too small. Then pair it with regulatory changes to help the housing market work better for more people. It’s the general consensus approach among top Democratic Party politicians and left-of-center policy wonks.

 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...