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Cincinnati: Hyde Park: Development and News

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23 minutes ago, 1400 Sycamore said:

Hideous addition^^^

 

Even in disrepair, Dr. Pfeiffer's old HP red brick was far more appropriate.

Untitled-1 copy.jpg

Well its a new building, what dont you like about it? I think its really high quality, easy on the eyes, and adds to the size of the square very well. 

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Out of scale for the block. Industrial design in a pool of traditional. Looks more like a giant version of an electrical component than a building fitting into a little village square.

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If anything, the buildings around it are out of scale, there are multiple 3+ story buildings in the square, so that really is not true.

 

As for the design, I think it will look way better once the balconies/windows are installed, but thats all a subjective thing, so no real point arguing. 

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The real reason not to argue is that it is a done deal. Nothing is going to change that. I spent my first 20 years about 500 feet from the old building so I was sorry to see it go.

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I'll reserver judgment on the design/quality until I see the windows installed.  They can make or break something like this, but the brickwork is harkening back to the Art Deco apartments in the area and even the corner building that Cock & Bull just vacated, and it looks good.  I don't see anything industrial about it.  It's just a box, and it's honestly not much different from this building that's right on the square https://goo.gl/maps/oqMczfJ8tzAgRJrt7  As for scale, it's the little one-story and barely-two-story buildings between here and Edwards that are the weird ones.  I do think the reduced front setback is a miss though, not from a walkability standpoint, but compositionally to fit with the other buildings on that side of the street.  Of course on the north side of Erie it's all over the place, and if the tiny buildings get redeveloped or replaced, they should be closer to the street like this one so a new rhythm can be established.  

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Hot take: Hyde Park is the least impressive, architecturally speaking, of Cincinnati's "rich people neighborhoods". Both of the Walnut Hills, Clifton, and the Avondales have both more interesting estates as well as "middle class homes". Hyde Park for the most part doesn't look much different from Norwood, other than the properties being in better shape.


“To an Ohio resident - wherever he lives - some other part of his state seems unreal.”

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^Hyde Park was hit by a tornado around 1915 that destroyed some of the original stuff.

 

Also, Hyde Park Square (the esplanade + commercial zoning) was supposed to extend one block further west to Zumstein, but there was a crazy legal case that blocked that plan back in 1910 or 1920.  You can see how the setback for the south side of the square continues toward Zumstein:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Hyde+Park+Square/@39.1397562,-84.4443894,360m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x8841b27972339f95:0x37014db4283c1eb8!8m2!3d39.1396048!4d-84.4425126

 

At some point the Sibcy Cline office was built on the north side of that block in such a way to preclude an identical esplanade, and the 5/3 Bank is simply sad.  But just imagine the uproar if someone proposed something like Michigan Terrace to replace Sibcy Cline & 5/3.  

 

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@BigDipper 80 That's a bad take, IMO. Maybe true of the area right around the square, but the whole Rookwood neighborhood and Grandin Rd and the streets off of it are impressive as anything else in Cincy, I think. Some of the grandest parts of HP:

This area behind Summit

Rookwood 

Aerial of this part of Rookwood shows some of the homes better than streetview

Handasyde

Grandin

Even over here on Vista has some really great old homes...

 

Edited by edale

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Eh, I know it’s a matter of personal taste, but I’d take any of the rambling estates on Clifton or Lafayette before any of those houses. I just find the older neighborhoods to have more eclectic and unique homes than the Tudor Revival 1910s-20s stuff you’ll find in HP. Of course, that’s just HP being a product of its time. It’s still a fantastic little neighborhood, and I’d take just about any house there over something in Indian Hill, which has always been a bit of a letdown IMO.


“To an Ohio resident - wherever he lives - some other part of his state seems unreal.”

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The grandest houses in Cincinnati, architecturally speaking, are pretty evenly distributed between Hyde Park around Grandin, East Walnut Hills just west of O'Bryanville, North Avondale Around Rose Hill and Lenox, and Clifton on Lafayette. The homes on Grandin take the cake in terms of size, though. Indian Hill has a few grand estates scattered about between the McMansions on steroids.

 

If you have a library card, you can browse through old Enquirer issues from the early 1900s that had a weekly lifestyle type page with photos of the nicest new homes in town. I forget what the section was called but can dig it up if anyone cares. 

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Hyde Park Square is what really differentiates the neighborhood from Avondale, Westwood, East Walnut Hills, or even Clifton, but if you ask a lot of residents they treat "commercial creep" like some sort of cancer.  

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11 hours ago, jjakucyk said:

Hyde Park Square is what really differentiates the neighborhood from Avondale, Westwood, East Walnut Hills, or even Clifton

 

Definitely this. Though I would say HP beats Mt. Lookout easily in fancy residential architecture, if we're pitting the wealthy neighborhoods against each other.

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At the end of the day though, outside of Grandin and maybe Observatory and Erie, most of Hyde Park, Mt. Lookout and Oakley look like this:

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1363122,-84.4388818,3a,75y,80.57h,82.54t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sXRCacHEI4NTpUCS9ahw1sA!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo1.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DXRCacHEI4NTpUCS9ahw1sA%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D10.508775%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1413207,-84.4349359,3a,90y,324.68h,84.29t/data=!3m5!1e1!3m3!1sCX7xC3b7Y0kHhxQ0zts6FQ!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DCX7xC3b7Y0kHhxQ0zts6FQ%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D117.771996%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100

 

Don't get me wrong, there are some really great side streets like this one-

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1351933,-84.4242345,3a,75y,321.47h,87.96t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLFGMloqwurrm7Ut055RPqQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

but by and large I don't find it as interesting as just about any random street in the "central rich areas", like:

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1461947,-84.5232584,3a,75y,265.1h,85.79t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sjqdJmzz8wGEm6xxoJpkm0Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1246938,-84.4743694,3a,75y,211.65h,86.02t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sYSjr6nRLUvpJFOmYYF5DHA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1264004,-84.4765516,3a,75y,109.37h,90.86t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1shpL-ovER1N8s2II7Jqw2gQ!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DhpL-ovER1N8s2II7Jqw2gQ%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D90.525734%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1212358,-84.4884099,3a,75y,158.95h,90.34t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sz1G0uOQ-tVYUQkhCefQyJw!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3Dz1G0uOQ-tVYUQkhCefQyJw%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D0.934729%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656

 

But again, I'm biased toward the unique, rambling, somewhat heavy 19th century architecuture as opposed to the streetcar suburb aesthetic of the east side. Not to say it's "overrated" or anything, just that it doesn't stand out as much as other parts of the city. 

 

Edited by BigDipper 80

“To an Ohio resident - wherever he lives - some other part of his state seems unreal.”

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There are a lot of spots on the west side that look really similar to that, and there are even a few mansions and gaslight streets.  The first difference is that the west side (and college hill) were ravaged by apartment construction through the 1960s, so there are all sorts of odd interruptions to the street wall, and apartments tucked into leftover pieces of land.  But the bigger issue is that the west side neighborhoods aren't organized around neighborhood nodes.  Cheviot is the exception, as the Harrison Ave. strip is Cheviot is a very walkable area with many apartments over commercial storefronts, and Warsaw/Glenway used to be that way in Price Hill, but there is definitely no center esplanade anywhere on the west side that is referred to as a "square", ala Hyde Park, Oakley, or Mt. Lookout.  

 

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There are really two types of areas in Hyde Park, the areas where houses around 300k - 500k, and the areas where houses are 500k+.

 

Some of my favorite spots in Hyde Park/Mount Lookout are around the Observatory/Ault Park, and people already mentioned the area around Rookwood Drives:

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1377092,-84.4218774,3a,75y,328.91h,88.7t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sl-u7owKQywOpe0YmgHqL_g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1421173,-84.4270481,3a,75y,219.19h,94.55t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sXeaq0q2641b_oJOytFxDdw!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DXeaq0q2641b_oJOytFxDdw%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D122.22488%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1385662,-84.4158941,3a,75y,191.6h,95.68t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1svIps9hXHyAwpnAvwPVhGsg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

Some areas around Mt. Lookout:

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1286792,-84.4274601,3a,75y,79.76h,85.3t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1scOvrfH-MjWiCpiYjR_xZ4w!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo1.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DcOvrfH-MjWiCpiYjR_xZ4w%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D221.40048%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1217517,-84.4250336,3a,75y,282.27h,91.16t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sJA_m3xcKSn1624DFML0rsA!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo2.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DJA_m3xcKSn1624DFML0rsA%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D163.88762%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656

 

This rolls into Columbia Tusculum:

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1166138,-84.4348369,3a,75y,201.44h,78.62t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s_Jgf9duxPYsnT31ciOIf0g!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3D_Jgf9duxPYsnT31ciOIf0g%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D134.91774%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1150182,-84.4336601,3a,75y,138.07h,108.08t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sIsLp6WWvf19q8bfdqa6w5g!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo1.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DIsLp6WWvf19q8bfdqa6w5g%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D200.72905%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1134693,-84.4363674,3a,75y,98.62h,94.4t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1swdLtxdoZ9YQg0cy9eW0jfQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

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5 minutes ago, IAGuy39 said:

There are really two types of areas in Hyde Park, the areas where houses around 300k - 500k, and the areas where houses are 500k+.

 

I lived in an apartment on Stettinius for almost 3 years, my wife and I started referring to the 2 Hyde Parks as "Beer Hyde Park" and "Champagne Hyde Park."

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24 minutes ago, jmecklenborg said:

There are a lot of spots on the west side that look really similar to that, and there are even a few mansions and gaslight streets.  The first difference is that the west side (and college hill) were ravaged by apartment construction through the 1960s, so there are all sorts of odd interruptions to the street wall, and apartments tucked into leftover pieces of land.  But the bigger issue is that the west side neighborhoods aren't organized around neighborhood nodes.  Cheviot is the exception, as the Harrison Ave. strip is Cheviot is a very walkable area with many apartments over commercial storefronts, and Warsaw/Glenway used to be that way in Price Hill, but there is definitely no center esplanade anywhere on the west side that is referred to as a "square", ala Hyde Park, Oakley, or Mt. Lookout.  

 

I would consider the the Westwood Town Square area the best case the Westside has at creating a square with the likes of HP or Mt Lookout.

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Hyde Park is very diverse. It has everything from 900 square foot bungalows that came from Sears Roebuck next to the tracks to multi million dollar 19th Century castles. Norwood has some very nice homes.

 

Here is a security camera image of my back yard, right in the middle of HP.

AlertSnapshot.jpg

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Well this is going to look terrible...

 

 

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2019/08/14/100-room-hotel-planned-in-hyde-park-slideshow.html?ana=twt

 

100-room hotel planned in Hyde Park: SLIDESHOW

 

A local hotel developer and operator are planning to build a seven-story Hampton Inn & Suites Hotel in Hyde Park.

 

Brandicorp LLC and Lexington Management Corp. are under contract to purchase the former Pig & Whistle property at 2680 Madison Road from Capital Investment Group Inc. Brandicorp plans to develop a seven-story, 100-room hotel on the site.

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Woof, all that parking.  Is there really a need for a hotel in Hyde Park?  I would think residential would do much better in that spot.  

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Residential would do better in that spot, but the Hyde Park NIMBY's won that fight.  What a waste of prime Wasson Way trail frontage too.

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It would honestly benefit stakeholders in the area to go to a city that has an established, world-class urban trail system (like Minneapolis) to see what surrounding developments looks like done right, because right now it does not seem like they have any idea what they’re doing. Shame, because Wasson Way has enormous potential. Seems destined to be squandered though. 

Edited by Pdrome513

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Their Facebook has had posts about them visiting Atlanta and Indy's trails... And they were adamantly opposed to the original mixed-use proposal that would have been an excellent addition to an ugly corner.  Most of their team is likely just Hyde Parkers concerned about the values of their houses and traffic.

Edited by 10albersa

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25 minutes ago, 10albersa said:

Their Facebook has had posts about them visiting Atlanta and Indy's trails... And they were adamantly opposed to the original mixed-use proposal that would have been an excellent addition to an ugly corner.  Most of their team is likely just Hyde Parkers concerned about the values of their houses and traffic.

 

So the NIMBY opposition that was concerned about traffic is going to develop an anti-urban development that will ensure an increase in traffic? Got it.


“All truly great thoughts are conceived while walking.”
-Friedrich Nietzsche

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teaches the Nimbys a lesson. Before fighting a good development, just think what you may get stuck with if you kill it. I would much rather have the apartment complex than the hotel, but the hotel will be easier to get through despite the Nimby opposition.

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From what I have seen of Hyde Park nimbys - they must have pretty easy lives to get so worked up over non-issues.  I saw some lady flipping out over someone throwing a beer can in her yard.  Last week I found 6-7 of them in my front bushes in Clifton.   

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1 hour ago, JYP said:

So the NIMBY opposition that was concerned about traffic is going to develop an anti-urban development that will ensure an increase in traffic? Got it.

 

NIMBYs care about keeping the status quo and keeping their neighborhood exclusive, they don't care that much about traffic.  It is just an easy way to convert the masses to supporting their cause. "Your already bad commute will be even worse!"

 

A hotel doesn't increase housing supply in Hyde Park, so that's a win for them.
 

 

Edited by 10albersa

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1 hour ago, jmecklenborg said:

From what I have seen of Hyde Park nimbys - they must have pretty easy lives to get so worked up over non-issues.  I saw some lady flipping out over someone throwing a beer can in her yard.  Last week I found 6-7 of them in my front bushes in Clifton.   

Kind of like the old hags downtown complaining about W&S cutting down a few trees at Lytle Park.

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46 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

W&S cutting down a few trees at Lytle Park

 

W&S cutting down a few trees at a public park

 

That's the issue

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1 hour ago, GCrites80s said:

Old Money has plenty of time for that crap.

 

See the HOA thread for tales from my grandfather's endless battles with his condo association.  

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19 minutes ago, 10albersa said:

 

W&S cutting down a few trees at a public park

 

That's the issue

 Ah, no, the park board blessed the deal, no it technically was not W&S it was the park board.

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14 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

 Ah, no, the park board blessed the deal, no it technically was not W&S it was the park board.

 

Visit the parks office on Eden Park drive (which btw is a pretty interesting building) and the big pictures of the current park board is a who's who of Cincinnati country clubbers.  I'm sure they all have special seats this week for the Western & Southern Open.  

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56 minutes ago, jmecklenborg said:

 

Visit the parks office on Eden Park drive (which btw is a pretty interesting building) and the big pictures of the current park board is a who's who of Cincinnati country clubbers.  I'm sure they all have special seats this week for the Western & Southern Open.  

 

Many of whom do not actually live in Cincinnati, including the Chair (Brad Lindner). Shouldn't you actually have to live in Cincinnati to be on the park board?

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