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https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/hyperloop-one-reveals-10-strongest-133034079.html

 

So this idea of a Chicago-Columbus-Pittsburgh hyperloop route has been floating around for a while.  It was one of originally hundreds of such proposed routes globally.  Recently, Hyperloop One, the company currently testing the potential technology, narrowed down the choices to the top 10 strongest, and the Columbus route has made it to that exclusive group. 

 

While such a route would be years away at best, and funding for it is far from certain, the potential of this cannot be understated.

 

This is an entertaining article and shows the flaws in the initial planning already. Toronto-Montreal, Dallas-Houston and Bengaluru-Mumbai make perfect sense. How in the hell is Cheyenne-Pueblo getting priority over LA-SF or NY-DC/NY-BOS? Why do I need to travel 700mph from a tiny city in Wyoming to a small city in Southern Colorado? It makes no sense and tells me omething is already amiss.

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How in the hell is Cheyenne-Pueblo getting priority over LA-SF or NY-DC/NY-BOS?

 

Remember that these corridors are coming out of a global challenge. Routes that may be ideal may not have been submitted and/or may not be supported by public or private entities in the region. LA-SF was the first corridor suggested by Elon Musk, but California's regulatory environment and existing high speed rail planning mean that may not be the best place to start off with Hyperloop.

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How in the hell is Cheyenne-Pueblo getting priority over LA-SF or NY-DC/NY-BOS?

 

Remember that these corridors are coming out of a global challenge. Routes that may be ideal may not have been submitted and/or may not be supported by public or private entities in the region. LA-SF was the first corridor suggested by Elon Musk, but California's regulatory environment and existing high speed rail planning mean that may not be the best place to start off with Hyperloop.

 

Right, there's no market for Cheyenne-Pueblo which is why it's a really bad idea. Cheyenne is the size of Mansfield. I wonder how much air service there is between Denver-Pueblo or Denver-Cheyenne? And of those flights that do exist how many people stay in Denver or fly on to another destination? I bet it's a very low number that stays in the Denver metro. This screams low demand.

 

There are 100+ better US city pairs than this Front Range tube.

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Remember that these corridors are coming out of a global challenge. Routes that may be ideal may not have been submitted and/or may not be supported by public or private entities in the region. LA-SF was the first corridor suggested by Elon Musk, but California's regulatory environment and existing high speed rail planning mean that may not be the best place to start off with Hyperloop.

 

I don't see Hyperloop ever being used for passengers. I do see it as a possibility for high-priority, time-sensitive freight between high-volume distribution centers.

 

BTW, California isn't just planning high-speed rail. The Central Valley portion (130 miles) is under construction and the electrification of CalTrain which HSR will use between San Jose and San Francisco is funded.


"Fascism begins the moment a ruling class, fearing the people may use their political democracy to gain economic democracy, begins to destroy political democracy in order to retain its power of exploitation and special privilege." -- Tommy Douglas, Scottish-born Canadian Baptist minister and the seventh Premier of Saskatchewan

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Remember that these corridors are coming out of a global challenge. Routes that may be ideal may not have been submitted and/or may not be supported by public or private entities in the region. LA-SF was the first corridor suggested by Elon Musk, but California's regulatory environment and existing high speed rail planning mean that may not be the best place to start off with Hyperloop.

 

I don't see Hyperloop ever being used for passengers. I do see it as a possibility for high-priority, time-sensitive freight between high-volume distribution centers.

 

BTW, California isn't just planning high-speed rail. The Central Valley portion (130 miles) is under construction and the electrification of CalTrain which HSR will use between San Jose and San Francisco is funded.

 

But this is a plan to transport passengers, no?

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But this is a plan to transport passengers, no?

 

Yes. That is the plan.


"Fascism begins the moment a ruling class, fearing the people may use their political democracy to gain economic democracy, begins to destroy political democracy in order to retain its power of exploitation and special privilege." -- Tommy Douglas, Scottish-born Canadian Baptist minister and the seventh Premier of Saskatchewan

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Cheyenne Denver Puelbo (360 miles)

 

LOL why?

 

If it's because Denver is so recently trendy and techy, that's a terrible reason. I agree with Ken: Find practical uses or this is just a novelty piece of transportation of our era.

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By 2020 every manufacturer is going to have good electric cars.  That's when the Musk business empire starts collapsing and we don't have to hear from this clown anymore.

 

The words of someone who has never driven a Model S.  Truly a work of art and engineering brilliance!

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I don't think there are very many people who have a poor opinion of Tesla's cars. It's all the other stuff involving the company and Musk's minigame side quests.

 

Actually I was reading Car & Driver the other day waiting on a haircut and they had a chart showing the ratio of recalls to vehicles produced. Not surprisingly Tesla had the top mark but surprisingly Kia-Hyundai was very, very close to Tesla. What was impressive about Kia is they produce about 10x the amount of vehicles than Tesla and outdid Mercedes-Benz, BMW, Audi, Volvo, etc. It shows you don't have to drop a ton of cash for a high quality vehicle these days. Tesla folks needs to keep this in mind if they want to be a major player in car production.

 

Anyway, back to the Hyperloop to Cheyenne.  :-D :-D

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When Hyundai first entered the US market their products were not very reliable and were known to be cheap and inferior.  I think they have made huge strides since then while the usual stalwarts of quality (Honda and Toyota) have rested on their laurels.  I've seen it written somewhere that Hyundai is the "new Honda.  I think there might be some truth to that.

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Didn't Musk come up with the concept for the Hyperloop but isn't actively involved with Hyperloop One?  I can't keep track with Tesla, Solar City, Spacex / Mars Mission, Boring Company (tunnels), AI, etc.


Very Stable Genius

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Didn't Musk come up with the concept for the Hyperloop but isn't actively involved with Hyperloop One?  I can't keep track with Tesla, Solar City, Spacex / Mars Mission, Boring Company (tunnels), AI, etc.

 

You're right...Musk is not involved. He plugs news though.

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It just seems like a scam by which he gets tons of free labor from college engineering departments. 

 

The reason why they were only able to test 3 vehicles a few months ago was because it takes so long to pressurize and then decompress the damn tube. 

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When Hyundai first entered the US market their products were not very reliable and were known to be cheap and inferior.  I think they have made huge strides since then while the usual stalwarts of quality (Honda and Toyota) have rested on their laurels.  I've seen it written somewhere that Hyundai is the "new Honda.  I think there might be some truth to that.

 

I think Kia/Hyundai were the first brands to offer the 100,000 mile powertrain warranty that is standard on many new models today.  That was somewhat eye-catching when they first laid down that marker (which of course was part of the point).

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Dude working on the feasibility study for Columbus sez: "The half-hour-to-Chicago scenario is more PR than anything, in my opinion."  Says the hyperloop might be more practical operating between speeds of 300-400mph because of the excessive TURNING RADIUS ISSUE that I brought up many posts ago.  The also claim that they want to have 3 operating systems by 2021.  They're going to be lucky to have 3 test runs of anything remotely practical by 2021. 

 

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2017/09/19/29-minutes-to-chicago-via-hyperloop-not-so-fast.html?ana=fbk

 

 

 

 

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Perhaps I've missed this, but what's the projected fare, maximum passenger capacity per day, operating/maintenance cost per passenger and projected start-up  capital cost?


"Fascism begins the moment a ruling class, fearing the people may use their political democracy to gain economic democracy, begins to destroy political democracy in order to retain its power of exploitation and special privilege." -- Tommy Douglas, Scottish-born Canadian Baptist minister and the seventh Premier of Saskatchewan

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Dude working on the feasibility study for Columbus sez: "The half-hour-to-Chicago scenario is more PR than anything, in my opinion."  Says the hyperloop might be more practical operating between speeds of 300-400mph because of the excessive TURNING RADIUS ISSUE that I brought up many posts ago.  The also claim that they want to have 3 operating systems by 2021.  They're going to be lucky to have 3 test runs of anything remotely practical by 2021. 

 

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2017/09/19/29-minutes-to-chicago-via-hyperloop-not-so-fast.html?ana=fbk

 

 

Interesting thing is, he's not even working on the feasibility study. Subsequent article says Battelle hopes to work on such a study.

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Perhaps I've missed this, but what's the projected fare, maximum passenger capacity per day, operating/maintenance cost per passenger and projected start-up  capital cost?

 

It's all going to happen magically, like an app. 

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Perhaps I've missed this, but what's the projected fare, maximum passenger capacity per day, operating/maintenance cost per passenger and projected start-up  capital cost?

 

When Musk offers an idea, one does not simply discuss the practicality of said idea.


Very Stable Genius

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^California HSR has resorted to the motto "it's happening".  It appears that most of the state is still completely unaware that 100+ miles of "packet 1" are very much under construction and "packet 2" is in pre-construction (land acquisition, test borings, etc.). 

 

I am baffled as to why the hyperloop idea has so entranced people. 

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Perhaps I've missed this, but what's the projected fare, maximum passenger capacity per day, operating/maintenance cost per passenger and projected start-up  capital cost?

 

It's all going to happen magically, like an app. 

 

 

When you wish upon a byte...

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Perhaps I've missed this, but what's the projected fare, maximum passenger capacity per day, operating/maintenance cost per passenger and projected start-up  capital cost?

 

Fantasy ideas don't have real data to back them. 

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^California HSR has resorted to the motto "it's happening".  It appears that most of the state is still completely unaware that 100+ miles of "packet 1" are very much under construction and "packet 2" is in pre-construction (land acquisition, test borings, etc.). 

 

I am baffled as to why the hyperloop idea has so entranced people. 

 

The average person will walk past something that's under construction and not stop and ask any questions about what's being built. When the first phase of California's HSR opens, a bunch of people are going to be like, "oh, that's what that is?"

 

I did drive past a bunch of the HSR construction in Fresno a few weeks ago. South of the city, the piers that will support elevated track are being built. A bunch of road/highway bridges are also being rebuilt as part of the project.

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I periodically watch the videos produced by the high speed rail authority.  They do nice videos every 3-4 months showing construction updates and none of them have more than 10,000 views in a state with tens of millions of people.  Meanwhile, many hyperloop videos have over 1 million views. 

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I really hate the name "hyperloop" for this thing. It just sounds like two unrelated words Musk stuck together in the middle of the night after being jolted awake by a fever dream.


“To an Ohio resident - wherever he lives - some other part of his state seems unreal.”

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^ it never was even anywhere near google glass stage -- its just a complete fantasy.

 

 

^California HSR has resorted to the motto "it's happening".  It appears that most of the state is still completely unaware that 100+ miles of "packet 1" are very much under construction and "packet 2" is in pre-construction (land acquisition, test borings, etc.). 

 

I am baffled as to why the hyperloop idea has so entranced people. 

 

The average person will walk past something that's under construction and not stop and ask any questions about what's being built. When the first phase of California's HSR opens, a bunch of people are going to be like, "oh, that's what that is?"

 

I did drive past a bunch of the HSR construction in Fresno a few weeks ago. South of the city, the piers that will support elevated track are being built. A bunch of road/highway bridges are also being rebuilt as part of the project.

 

 

maybe not even then because a third of this will not be high speed rail at all, and you will still be able to drive it quicker. i think i reqad that if they took something called the grapevine route instead it would have been quicker and have more hsr, but that would have cost way too much money. its something though, as good as we can get for hsr in the usa at the moment, and it will help.

 

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maybe not even then because a third of this will not be high speed rail at all, and you will still be able to drive it quicker. i think i reqad that if they took something called the grapevine route instead it would have been quicker and have more hsr, but that would have cost way too much money. its something though, as good as we can get for hsr in the usa at the moment, and it will help.

 

Depends on when you're driving the 5.  Overnight, sure it may be quicker to drive.  During the day, probably not.  And you can't check email, have a lunch meeting, etc while driving your car. 

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The shorter, straighter route was avoided because it bypassed all of the Central Valley cities.  The route that is being built takes advantage of the way all of those places are oriented in basically a straight line.  It is requiring a lot of grade separation in them that drove up costs. 

 

The only "slow" section will be the Caltrans mixed track between San Jose and SF and then the immediate 5~ miles north of LA's Union Station.  In France the TGV approaches Paris very slowly for about 5-8 miles also. 

 

If you live in the east bay, you will be able to take BART to the San Jose HSR station (BART is under construction to the edge of San Jose and will soon break ground on a subway under the downtown).  Operation of HSR will be 200mph until just a 2-3 miles outside of San Jose.  So from Oakland on down, taking BART to San Jose will probably be faster than taking BART to the transit center in DT SF, then taking the "slow" HSR route. 

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i see somebody just answered this on ssp:

 

 

Let's take a fresh look at CHSR project. It only goes very fast in the Valley. In Southern California and San Francisco Bay Area, where it will share the corridor and the tracks with local regional slower trains, it only goes the slower speeds so it would not run over or through (crash) into the slower trains.

 

It's 473 rail miles between downtown S.F. and downtown L.A. You can drive it in 382 miles, 91 miles less, but the fast train is taking the long way and not the shortcut. It'll go slow the 62 or so miles between L.A. and Palmdale, and the 83 or so miles S.F. to Gilroy. That's 145 miles of the 473 miles it will not be going fast, therefore it can only go very fast over 328 miles. But then it will have to slow down to a stop, and accelerate from a stop at intermediate stations.

 

How many HSR stations will there be between L.A. and S.F?

(1) Transbay (2) Millbrae (3) Diridon (4) Gilroy (5) Merced (6) Madera (7) Fresno (8) Hanford (9) Bakersfield (10) Palmdale (11) Burbank, and (12) Union Station. Every stop at a station along the way will cause the average speed of the train to be slower. So the train will not be going very fast over that entire remaining 328 miles.

 

And please do not suggest the HSR trains will not be stopping at these intermediate stations, I know better because CHSR is building the longer route to get to them. What's the purpose getting to them if you're not going to stop at them?

 

So what do we have, we have a train that will probably take 3 hours or more to run between downtown L.A. and downtown S.F. with a technology that could do it in less than 2 hours - and that will be celebrated as a success.

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So what do we have, we have a train that will probably take 3 hours or more to run between downtown L.A. and downtown S.F. with a technology that could do it in less than 2 hours - and that will be celebrated as a success.

 

Considering that driving from Downtown LA to Downtown SF would take about 6 hours, during which time you could only stare at the road and listen to music or podcasts ... I consider a 3 hour train trip—where you can relax, walk around, do work, watch movies, or read a book—to be a huge success.

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But then it will have to slow down to a stop, and accelerate from a stop at intermediate stations.

 

All of the stations are being built with 4 tracks, meaning that you could easily have local and express trains. If there is enough ridership between the Bay Area and LA, you could run a few express trains per day that do not stop at any intermediate stations. There are a lot of possibilities for how they could run the system that would not require every train stopping at every station.

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The shorter, straighter route was avoided because it bypassed all of the Central Valley cities.  The route that is being built takes advantage of the way all of those places are oriented in basically a straight line.  It is requiring a lot of grade separation in them that drove up costs. 

 

The only "slow" section will be the Caltrans mixed track between San Jose and SF and then the immediate 5~ miles north of LA's Union Station.  In France the TGV approaches Paris very slowly for about 5-8 miles also. 

 

If you live in the east bay, you will be able to take BART to the San Jose HSR station (BART is under construction to the edge of San Jose and will soon break ground on a subway under the downtown).  Operation of HSR will be 200mph until just a 2-3 miles outside of San Jose.  So from Oakland on down, taking BART to San Jose will probably be faster than taking BART to the transit center in DT SF, then taking the "slow" HSR route. 

 

Then again, if you're heading from downstate to the CBD of San Francisco, the HSR will be very fast. The Transbay Center is already under construction and will be the northern terminal of the HSR and CalTrain on the peninsula.

 

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"Fascism begins the moment a ruling class, fearing the people may use their political democracy to gain economic democracy, begins to destroy political democracy in order to retain its power of exploitation and special privilege." -- Tommy Douglas, Scottish-born Canadian Baptist minister and the seventh Premier of Saskatchewan

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^ yeah that part was a bit confusing because it seems like the poster was implying they would not run express although they have the track to do it.

 

however, the track sharing at each each end will certainly slow things down, if not the station stops. it still looks like a third of the route is not hsr to me.

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Not everyone is familiar with high-speed rail systems around the world and too often equate them to really fast subways. They may not know that there are different classes of service with different trains and the higher-class trains make fewer or no enroute stops. I believe the Tokyo-Osaka Shinkansen has five or six different classes of service with trains departing every 5-10 minutes. The line carries some 300,000 people per day.

 

So to get back to Hyperloop, I struggle to see how it can offer these differentiated services with multiple enroute station stops with lower-class/more frequently stopping trains and similarly have any near the passenger handling capacity of conventional high speed rail systems.


"Fascism begins the moment a ruling class, fearing the people may use their political democracy to gain economic democracy, begins to destroy political democracy in order to retain its power of exploitation and special privilege." -- Tommy Douglas, Scottish-born Canadian Baptist minister and the seventh Premier of Saskatchewan

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The stretch between DT LA and Burbank will share existing (but rebuilt) commuter tracks.  From Burbank to Palmdale it will be HSR exclusive, but might not run at the full 200mph speed through the new tunnels.  It will definitely go over 100mph in the tunnels though, probably more like 150mph. 

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