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Guest ryanlammi

Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: Ziegler Park Renovation

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1400 Sycamore is making stuff up.  I was at the pool today and virtually everyone there was black.

 

BS: Channel 9 News just ran video. Not a single black person in the water. There were a few persons of color standing around over by the concession by afternoon when the video was made. I spent the whole day until 1pm 300 feet from the pool. You are a liar Jacob. I doubt you even drove by.

 

 

Well here is the circuitous path I pedaled around the city on Saturday:

bikeride-1_zpsxakhgx8l.png

 

Here is a close-up of my path in and around the park...you can see that I rode my bike around the outside of the pool and into the parking lot off of 14th just north of the pool.  I rode to that elevated perspective take a shot of the pool, which was completely packed, but I couldn't get a clear shot because of some construction fencing:

bikeride-2_zpsce5al929.png

 

When I was there, there were between 150-200 people in or around the pool.  Maybe 20 were white.  When I came home in the afternoon and looked at this website, I intended to remark that the pool was so crowded that they might have to think about building another one.  Instead, I was met with someone who wasn't there making a preposterous "observation". 

 

You weren't there "all day", or at all.  I don't know what compelled you to not only make your ridiculous remark but to double-down on it.  You own a building that has appreciated wildly in value thanks to 3CDC.  You are not a victim. 

 

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Can we please just be a little more civil. You guys do realize that both observations could be valid. One does not preclude the other.  I have seen several photos on Instagram that were, in fact, almost all white people.  I wouldn't label them as gentrifiers  that seems unnecessarily provocative. One person even mentioned they thought the pool would be more crowded. The crowds came later in the afternoon, which were apparently predominantly African-American. See, both can be true, no one needs to be a liar or full of bs.

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No, but I think there was concern from some that this would somehow be purely for wealthy people who are more recent members of the community. I don't really think those concerns were valid or necessary considering the amazing job 3CDC did with Washington Park which is one of the most (if not THE most) diverse public spaces in the city. There was no legitimate reason why Ziegler Park would be any different. And I think the fact that in its first day it seems like all cross sections of the community were represented is a sign that there's nothing to worry about.

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Honestly if you take race out of the picture and look at it as a whole, fixing up these neighborhoods requires gentrification.  I'm not saying it's a good thing but we have to stop denying what is actually happening.  People complain because the poor are displaced and the yuppies come in.  I'm not sure there's a neighborhood in the United States or even the world where it has gone through a renaissance without moving the poor people out.  The ongoing complaint of not bringing in enough section 8 housing is ridiculous too.  You bring in section 8 housing and you bring in people who can only afford that.  Then,  most of the time, they treat their property like section 8 housing.  Do you think OTR would be able to sustain a renaissance if that happened? No.  Walk down Vine street right now and tell me all of that "gentrification" hasn't worked.  All races are enjoying it and they're enjoying Ziegler Park.

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I'm not sure there's a neighborhood in the United States or even the world where it has gone through a renaissance without moving the poor people out. 

 

I must take issue with this. The goal in Over the Rhine is to increase integration in what was a pocket of concentrated poverty. The neighborhood was in such a state of advanced decay (parts of it still are) that it's possible for thousands of middle class people from move here while at the same time seeking to minimize displacement.

 

I haven't met a single neighbor in Over the Rhine who would seek to block increasing the amount of affordable housing available in the neighborhood. That really can't be said about almost any other place. The issue is finding the money to pay for it.

 

 


www.cincinnatiideas.com

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Photo from ~Noon on Saturday:

19029603_10208937047975651_3943091187408105594_n.jpg?oh=632fa6f679dca65ceb3a283967b4e1a7&oe=59D6ABEA


"It's just fate, as usual, keeping its bargain and screwing us in the fine print..." - John Crichton

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Thank you to the UO'ers who actually travel to and document these projects, and share the results with us here. It's the difference between real information and the endless fibs and he-said she-said of lesser internet discussion boards.

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I love the views of the dense old buildings around the new pool. Such a cool, urban scene. Does anyone have photos of the rest of the park makeover? If the rest is done as well as the pool, this should be a game changer for east OTR and Pendleton in the way that Washington Park has been for west OTR.

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I'm still a bit curious as to what makes this pool special. Why is a season pass here 5 times as expensive as a season pass that gets you into every other public pool in the city ($175 vs $35 for an individual, at least for middle to upper class income earners)? Is it just the newness?

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Consistent and long hours. If you look at the CRC pools slot of them are only open until 5 or so. Also a longer season as the CRC pools close when CPS is back in and Ziegler will be open til labor day. Hoping they open at memorial day next year so that would be around 6 more weeks.

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I'm not sure there's a neighborhood in the United States or even the world where it has gone through a renaissance without moving the poor people out. 

 

I must take issue with this. The goal in Over the Rhine is to increase integration in what was a pocket of concentrated poverty. The neighborhood was in such a state of advanced decay (parts of it still are) that it's possible for thousands of middle class people from move here while at the same time seeking to minimize displacement.

 

I haven't met a single neighbor in Over the Rhine who would seek to block increasing the amount of affordable housing available in the neighborhood. That really can't be said about almost any other place. The issue is finding the money to pay for it.

 

Affordable housing == small unit sizes. OTR was largely built for this, and I think about the issues of integration (economic+racial) every time a building that once housed 10-15 people gets carved up into 2-3 condos. In my opinion, rather than government subsidy, we could achieve integration goals through restrictions on the blend of unit sizes (perhaps in order to secure a tax abatement).

 

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I'm still a bit curious as to what makes this pool special. Why is a season pass here 5 times as expensive as a season pass that gets you into every other public pool in the city ($175 vs $35 for an individual, at least for middle to upper class income earners)? Is it just the newness?

 

You could ask the same about other parks in our urban core as well. Why do Fountain Square, Washington Park, and Ziegler Park get special treatment from 3CDC? Why is Smale Park nicer than other Cincinnati parks? I would argue that it's because our downtown parks are seen and used by many more visitors to the city, compared to parks in other neighborhoods. And Cincinnati residents from other neighborhoods come to the core to utilize these parks much more than vice versa. The attention to detail and higher quality reflects this, and the higher prices for the pool reflect the higher demand compared to other pools in other neighborhoods.

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Sunday's video.

 

Pool filling up again today.

 

 

The pool opens at 11am your video is 39 seconds long, shocking only a couple of people got there right at opening. You could shoot that same video at all pools in Cincinnati both public and private with the same results. esp on Sunday.

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I was there around 2:00 yesterday (Sunday) for about two hours and it was crowded. Chairs were almost all taken. It was still comfortable. Not too crowded. Very diverse crowd as well.

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The diving board won't be happening anytime soon.  The pool isn't deep enough per code.  Allegedly the fault of the architect.  Not sure if/when a fix will happen. 

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The diving board won't be happening anytime soon.  The pool isn't deep enough per code.  Allegedly the fault of the architect.  Not sure if/when a fix will happen. 

 

I spoke to someone involved in the project and they said they have to get a different sized diving board to compensate for the slightly shallower depth.


“All truly great thoughts are conceived while walking.”
-Friedrich Nietzsche

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They are making progress on the park and opening up a little bit more every day. Currently they are building the new sidewalks along Sycamore and 13th. The garage is open but the gates are just up right now...so I think it's okay for people to park there until they actually turn the gates on and start charging for parking. I have tried multiple times to contact 3CDC and ask when monthly parking passes would be available and I haven't gotten a response. I'm guessing that Woodward will also be resurfaced when they're done because I just noticed the "track removal" paint on the street earlier today. The old streetcar tracks have been visible on Woodward for a few years as the street has been getting more and more potholes.

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Woodward Street, Yukon Street, and 13th Street (from Main to Sycamore) are being resurfaced right now.

 

Also the gates at the new garage are down, so it's open for paid parking. Still no word about monthly passes...

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I took my family to the pool this past weekend, and we were really happy with it.  It was extremely crowded when we got there are 4pm but thinned out by 7:30 when we left.  The climbing wall is a hit.  It would be nice to get the diving board installed, but it was also nice to be able to hang out in the deep end when the rest of the pool was crowded.  I hope that next year they organize a swim team for the kids and utilize the lanes.  When I was there, only one lane was open.

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Sycamore Street was paved and painted last night and it looks quite nice.

 

However, they are completely kidding themselves if they think that the little crosswalk bump out and the white cross walk lines are "traffic calming."

 

The traffic on Sycamore is nutz. 40-50 mph is not at all unusual for cars passing that crosswalk. They will need to do more.

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I wonder if the police have written a single speeding ticket in OTR/downtown this year, or last year, or ever.

 

I'm not blaming the cops.  The real solution is to design the streets differently to make cars go slower.

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Sycamore Street was paved and painted last night and it looks quite nice.

 

However, they are completely kidding themselves if they think that the little crosswalk bump out and the white cross walk lines are "traffic calming."

 

The traffic on Sycamore is nutz. 40-50 mph is not at all unusual for cars passing that crosswalk. They will need to do more.

 

They should've also incorporated bump-outs at Sycamore & 13th and Sycamore & 14th. The more you can narrow the street and increase pedestrian visibility, the slower cars will naturally drive.

 

BTW, Main Street will also be getting bump-outs at all of the crosswalks between 12th and Liberty later this year, and will be repaved next year. The neighborhood had to fight pretty hard to make that happen. What we really need is for the DOTE to adopt this as a standard practice on all city streets going forward instead of making the neighborhoods beg for these improvements.

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The playground area is now open.

 

36238015626_3aca86dc0c_h.jpg

 

The grand re-opening has been announced for August 8 at 2 p.m.  It seems like they still have a lot of work to do on the eastern side of the park (the former Cutter Playground).

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The grand re-opening has been announced for July 8 at 2 p.m.  It seems like they still have a lot of work to do on the eastern side of the park (the former Cutter Playground).

 

Do you mean August 8?

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They are getting pretty close to done on the east side. They have sod down and sprinklers running. That means nothing left to do except more sod. I think it also means that they are going to put loose material on the walk path around the passive green since there would not be sod if it was going to be formed for asphalt or pavers.

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The grand opening is tomorrow and to me, it doesn't look like the eastern half will be ready. While all nearly the concrete has been poured for circular walkway, they have not finished putting down the sod for the new green space. They also have not finished the entrances at the northwest and southeast corners. I am expecting that only the western half of the park will open tomorrow. Honestly they should just leave the eastern half closed this year and let the grass take root, then open it next spring. Otherwise it's just going to get immediately trampled and turn into a mud pit like Washington Park's green space does every single year.

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Agreed. That new turf needs time to take root, so the field should be fenced off for a while before letting people use it heavily.

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They missed the target completely as to the East side of the project. Its a mess. It is a real shame since the project has been so well run and incredibly fast. Right up to to the last month where they fell flat on their face. All I can say is that it looked good but they may have run into unexpected conditions on the perimeters.

 

In August and September the sod will require almost continuous watering and will not be walkable at all for a couple weeks at least.

 

The West side looks ok.

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Event was a flop. One neighborhood activists was overheard saying: "Look at all these folks claiming credit for stuff they had nothing to do with."

 

Its true.

 

Good news is that most of it will be closed 3/4 of the year.

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Huh? From everything I've seen they did a fantastic job. This is a big investment in the public realm and appears to be a great success. Who cares if the opening event was a "flop" in your eyes? That has no bearing on the quality of the public space that up until recently was inhospitable and a crime hot spot. Now it's a neighborhood asset tying together two neighborhoods that are seeing investment.

 

Why can't people ever be happy when good things happen? Jesus.

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