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Cincinnati: Downtown: Hampton Inn / Homewood Suites (Cincinnati Enquirer Building Redevlopment)

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I'd be curious if some of DT hotel traffic is lost to KY and the 'burbs simply because we do not offer a wide variety and/or cater to all price points. This project is a step in the right direction. Many people are likely priced out of downtown and head to Covington or Blue Ash.

 

Absolutely right. The Marriott at RiverCenter should have been in Cincinnati

 

All I have to say is that there is definitely a reason why there's all this interest in downtown hotels. Not sure what that is though... Nielsen, Omnicare and KAO are now downtown and this does not hurt, but what else? The casino?

 

The reason is Cincinnati lacks quality hotels. A lot of people roll their eyes when they hear about "another hotel" because they'd rather have apartments - ok, valid point from the armchair perspective - but not all hotel rooms are equal. Cincinnati's hotel environment could stand some new blood/competition and what we're seeing now is a bunch of that at once.

 

It's also my understanding that in the past demolition has been discussed as an option on the table for the Millennium....which would make sense because the owners have invested ZERO money into it. Extremely outdated property. This comes from someone close to 3CDC.

 

This is true and I hope it happens.

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excellent point by OTR. No dount Cdowntown needs resendial density but there is plent of opportunity, even with a historic building or two not used for that purpose.  It was very obvious, though, that Cincy's hotel scene was very lacking. I mean compare it to Indy and Cincy falls way short. Same with Cleveland.  These recent hotel additions and/or rennovations are much needed and I think you will see the city benefit from a convention and event perspective.

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Where are some of these potential locations???

 

Developer eyeing more sites for downtown Cincinnati hotels

Business Courier by Jon Newberry, Staff Reporter

Date: Friday, August 3, 2012, 6:00am EDT

 

 

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The Banks site has to be one of the locations, as that is certainly targeted for a hotel. As for existing empty buildings that could be converted, you'd have to think the Terrace Plaza and Bartlett Building would be at the top of any list. And wasn't the old Pogue's warehouse building at Race Street and Ogden Place (315 Race?) just south of the old McAlpin's once targeted for a possible hotel? I've really not heard anything about that building - rumors or otherwise - for years.

 

The Pogues building be a huge hotel, if developed as one. But it would have extremely high visibility (imagine a giant W at the top overlooking The Banks and riverfront). Or possibly it could go residential:

 

http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&hl=en&safe=off&rlz=1G1TSNDCENUS488&biw=1366&bih=600&tbm=isch&tbnid=DmvMC8JdZ_9mwM:&imgrefurl=http://www.emporis.com/building/310racebuilding-cincinnati-oh-usa&docid=Um8nDf3IrnEn2M&imgurl=http://www.emporis.com/images/show/312073-Large.jpg&w=602&h=800&ei=pY8hUMGwOKnb0QHRi4GADg&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=466&sig=102973470042781514701&page=2&tbnh=135&tbnw=102&start=21&ndsp=28&ved=1t:429,r:16,s:21,i:191&tx=66&ty=42

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I also think some of the lots along Central Parkway could make good hotels sites...close to the casino and OTR resurgence and they would allow for new built rather than retrofit. Typically limited service brands prefer new construction.

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I think maybe 3 or 4 new hotels downtown is acceptable. After that the focus should be on creating residential. It's nice to have visitors but honestly the city is better off having people stay for longer than a few nights.

 


“All truly great thoughts are conceived while walking.”
-Friedrich Nietzsche

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Just to be clear, there are only 4 hotels downtown right now- so we're saying, double that number.  If the Millenium is going to close, then yes, it not I don't see how they can all stay viable.

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I think maybe 3 or 4 new hotels downtown is acceptable. After that the focus should be on creating residential. It's nice to have visitors but honestly the city is better off having people stay for longer than a few nights.

 

..Huh?  We don't want hotel visitors just so we have new people to talk to!  :-D  We want hotel visitors because of the money they spend  in our shops, bars, and restaurants and the impact that has on our local economy. Also, better/more hotel options = Cincinnati being more likely to attract and host more conventions.

 

But yes, I hope that more residential projects are announced soon too.

 

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Hilton Netherland

Millenium

Residence Inn

Cincinnatian

Garfield Inns & Suites

Westin

Hyatt Regency

 

 

... yep... 4

 

Yeah, I had no idea where someone was getting "4" for the number of hotels.  And 21C opens in the next 3 months, so we will be up to 8.  (I think I listed them all upthread even...)

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I think maybe 3 or 4 new hotels downtown is acceptable. After that the focus should be on creating residential. It's nice to have visitors but honestly the city is better off having people stay for longer than a few nights.

 

..Huh?  We don't want hotel visitors just so we have new people to talk to!  :-D  We want hotel visitors because of the money they spend  in our shops, bars, and restaurants and the impact that has on our local economy. Also, better/more hotel options = Cincinnati being more likely to attract and host more conventions.

 

But yes, I hope that more residential projects are announced soon too.

 

Revenue from hotel visitors ebbs and flows with the local tourism industry. Residents tend to care more about their neighborhood than visitors, eyes on the street, etc. You don't really get that with hotel guests. Also with downtown apartments in such high demand I really don't know why we haven't seen anything going on outside of 5th & Race in the CBD.


“All truly great thoughts are conceived while walking.”
-Friedrich Nietzsche

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Well, I wasn't claiming that visitors were preferable to downtown residents, just that visitors are an important part of the economy and building excitement around Cincinnati.  You need a healthy mix of both, and right now we have less of both than we'd all prefer!

 

I wonder if financing is more difficult to procure for CBD residential space than it is for hotels -perhaps that's a driving factor.  If it is, god only knows why - every decent CBD residential product seems to lease out / sell out quite quickly.  Perhaps it will take another year or two of consistently long waitlists for downtown residences before more development is announced. :/

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Hilton Netherland

Millenium

Residence Inn

Cincinnatian

Garfield Inns & Suites

Westin

Hyatt Regency

 

 

... yep... 4

 

Ah yes- My bad I only thought of the  4 standard hotels.  the Residence Inn is an extended stay, the Cincinnatian is sort of our comparable to a boutique hotel and I guess the Garfield is split about half extended stay and half regular rooms.

 

Either way, considering occupancy is somewhere around 67-69% I think it's a little crazy to expect 4+ new hotels to open and no one to do poorly or go out of business.  Like I said, if the Millennium closes that's great, but beyond that occurring I don't see how we're going to add another 25-30% in available rooms without someone shutting down.

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Hilton Netherland

Millenium

Residence Inn

Cincinnatian

Garfield Inns & Suites

Westin

Hyatt Regency

 

 

... yep... 4

 

Ah yes- My bad I only thought of the  4 standard hotels.  the Residence Inn is an extended stay, the Cincinnatian is sort of our comparable to a boutique hotel and I guess the Garfield is split about half extended stay and half regular rooms.

 

Either way, considering occupancy is somewhere around 67-69% I think it's a little crazy to expect 4+ new hotels to open and no one to do poorly or go out of business.  Like I said, if the Millennium closes that's great, but beyond that occurring I don't see how we're going to add another 25-30% in available rooms without someone shutting down.

 

Granted your logic is straight forward... but with recent events (WCGs) and downtown investments, hotel companies are not betting on that 67-69% to hold steady.  They are expecting a large influx of visitors, ones that will favor newer accommodations.  I would also like to see that influx of visitors and think that it is very possible that our tourism numbers will continue to rise and support 4 new hotels, and 80-90% of the old ones (providing for healthy turnover). 

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Not sure of this is to far off topic, but does anybody know the total available rooms that are desired for major events to consider coming to town? 

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Hotels are currently one of the most difficult types of real estate to finance. If just the currently planned hotels all move forward, Cincinnati should be pleased.

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Hilton Netherland

Millenium

Residence Inn

Cincinnatian

Garfield Inns & Suites

Westin

Hyatt Regency

 

 

... yep... 4

 

Ah yes- My bad I only thought of the  4 standard hotels.  the Residence Inn is an extended stay, the Cincinnatian is sort of our comparable to a boutique hotel and I guess the Garfield is split about half extended stay and half regular rooms.

 

Either way, considering occupancy is somewhere around 67-69% I think it's a little crazy to expect 4+ new hotels to open and no one to do poorly or go out of business.  Like I said, if the Millennium closes that's great, but beyond that occurring I don't see how we're going to add another 25-30% in available rooms without someone shutting down.

 

A couple things.  I think you are selling the Residence Inn short by dismissing it as "extended stay."  I'm not kidding when I say it may be the nicest hotel downtown right now. 

 

Also, I am not sure where you get that there is an increase of 25-30% in rooms coming.  There are over 2800 rooms in downtown hotels right now (including the 21C).  I don't think that the Enquirer building renovation and a Banks hotel (which has not even come close to being announced) are going to add 800 rooms to that stock. 

 

Also, it appears that at 67-69% occupancy, there's plenty of money to be made.  An admittedly brief Google search turned up this link, indicating that PWC determined back in 1998 that the break-even point for hotels was 55% occupancy.  http://www.hospitalitynet.org/news/4000978.html  I'm not sure that adding another hotel or two necessarily means one of the existing hotels will go out of business. 

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I'm not kidding when I say it may be the nicest hotel downtown right now.

 

Fully agreed.  Certainly (and ironically) the most modern interior-wise.


"You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers

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And not a bad bar to boot!

 

Took a tour of several of the rooms/floors as we were considering a wedding block there. They were the nicest we've seen in downtown. The price for a block of ten rooms on a Friday/Saturday in September (not Riverfest/Octoberfest weekends) was $169 a night. The Hilton was $109 for up to forty rooms.


"It's just fate, as usual, keeping its bargain and screwing us in the fine print..." - John Crichton

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Yeah, it is definitely not cheap.  The bar is very nice!  It's sort of quiet and sleepy over there, but that could be a plus to some travelers.  They really did a nice job on the conversion. 

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Regarding room increases, 

 

21C is 140

Enquirer is about 240

Banks would be around 160

Holiday Inn & Suites at 7th & Sycamore is supposed to be 200

 

Right there is 700 rooms + SREE saying they are looking at "more sites" currently. I'm not saying it's bad, just find it very interesting. The Residence Inn was the first new hotel since the late 1980's and several had closed since then.  Now in a span of around 5 years we might be adding nearly 900 rooms (Res Inn opened just over a year ago).  Nothing wrong with it, obviously it's great news, but it's a little surprising.

 

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I don't have any solid information about Millennium closing, but given the state of the property, I cannot imagine they will be open for many years to come -- just an opinion, nothing more.

 

Now to address the over saturation concerns, let me add some perspective -- when a franchisee like SREE builds a hotel from a major chain, there is a complex algorithm and business case put together well beforehand to determine market feasibility. This takes into account a number of things like occupancy rates, demand, competition, cost per key to build, average rates in the city, etc etc. The list goes on and on. Keep in mind Hilton has plenty of market intelligence from the Cincinnati market as they already have a solid presence here, just not necessarily downtown. Put quite plainly, if the numbers did not work, these properties would not be built. Hilton, Marriott, etc would not even be considering the DT Cincinnati market. 

 

My understanding is that the hotel company will often scout locations they want to be in based on what shows as hot from their calculations, put together the business case and then approach developers about the opportunity to see if there is interest and try to "sell" the opportunity. There's money on the line for the the hotel chain as well as the franchisee.

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It's also my understanding that in the past demolition has been discussed as an option on the table for the Millennium....which would make sense because the owners have invested ZERO money into it. Extremely outdated property. This comes from someone close to 3CDC.

 

Demolition? Who would pay for that? If the Millennium doesn't make money they could try to sell it or in worse case scenario close the operation.

I stayed there when the 2009 wind storm knocked out my power and it was fine. My room was updated. It compares well enough with the other

hotels in Downtown.

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My vote is for a parking lot. That part of downtown doesn't really have any affordable parking. They could make the money for the demo back many-fold.

 

I can only hope that was a joke... cause downtown needs another lot like I need a hole in my head.

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My vote is for a parking lot. That part of downtown doesn't really have any affordable parking. They could make the money for the demo back many-fold.

 

I can only hope that was a joke... cause downtown needs another lot like I need a hole in my head.

 

I'm hoping for an Applebee's

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My vote is for a parking lot. That part of downtown doesn't really have any affordable parking. They could make the money for the demo back many-fold.

 

I can only hope that was a joke... cause downtown needs another lot like I need a hole in my head.

 

I'm hoping for an Applebee's

 

I'm hoping for a one-story, drive-through Walgreen's set back from the street with parking in front.  :roll:

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Extra hotels, if the city makes itself more user-friendly, could certainly benefit from more visitors. After all, isn't one problem that not enough outsiders know what all is there? One part of solving that would be to increase the capacity for visitors while also taking way the guesswork for where to go Downtown and elsewhere: highly visible downtown signs for the top destination neighborhoods possibly centered around Fountain Square could be seen by these visitors and  consist of one along E 5th near reading "Mount Adams ► 1.8 miles" and another on Vine northbound: "Northside ▲ 4.7 miles", etc. Just would want to avoid a cluttered feeling, but adding more hotel guests seems like a good opportunity.

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Email from CBRE:

 

The CBRE Indianapolis-Cincinnati Multi-Housing Group arranged the disposition of:

 

617 VINE STREET

Located in the heart of Downtown Cincinnati, Ohio

 

Cincinnati - September 2012: The Indianapolis-Cincinnati Multi-Housing group of CBRE has negotiated the sale of 617 Vine Street, a 240,000-square foot redevelopment opportunity of the historic former Enquirer Building located in the heart of Downtown Cincinnati.

 

Added to the National Register of Historic Places in 1985, 617 Vine Street housed the longest running daily, The Cincinnati Enquirer, at its site for 119 years. The current building was completed in 1928 and is also recognized as the fictional “Osgood R. Flimm Building” from the 1978-1982 American situation comedy, WKRP in Cincinnati.

 

Standing at fourteen stories tall, 617 Vine Street holds the reputation of being Cincinnati’s first major art deco building with a touch of premodern style. Among its many impressive architectural features are the unique symmetrical “H” shape of floors four through fourteen, many multi-light arched windows, an Indiana limestone and brick exterior featuring several gargoyles, and an impressive lobby highlighting intricate limestone, marble and copper décor.

 

Zoned DD-Downtown Development, 617 Vine Street was vacant at the time of sale, offering excellent adaptive reuse potential. The CBRE Indianapolis-Cincinnati Multi-Housing Group represented the seller in this transaction. The buyer was SREE Hotels out of Charlotte, NC. 

 

Download PDF of the 617 Vine Street Oak Press Release:

http://f.tlcollect.com/fr2/812/26009/CBRE_Sells_Historic_Former_Enquirer_Building_at_617_Vine_Street_Cincinnati_Ohio.pdf

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A little something for the rumor mill:

 

I live downtown and walk passed the Enquirer building all the time. The other night was the first time I ever seen inside lights on at night. Apparently something is going on there. Can't say whether it's the start of construction or whatever. Just an FYI.

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I see they finally patched the broken piece of this building's marble facade. But why in the hell did they use a black piece of marble with white and orange streaks? The rest of the facade is grey marble with lighter and darker streaks. Surely someone could've put a little more effort into getting a better matching piece of marble. I hope this isn't foreshadowing the quality of work that will take place.

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