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Cincinnati: Avondale: Development and News

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On 10/28/2019 at 12:14 PM, tonyt3524 said:

What's disappointing is the fact that the entire north side of the development no longer looks to be flush with MLK like the initial renderings. 

 

This article provides a bit of context/rationale for why the design was updated... seems like the developer wanted a perfectly flat central courtyard, which I think is misguided... a courtyard doesn't have to be perfectly flat to be nice and enjoyable: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2019/11/26/exclusive-get-a-look-at-updated-plans-for-200.html?iana=hpmvp_cinci_news_headline

 

Quote

The other big design change to the Uptown Gateway plan is originally the developers planned a stepped garage podium, which would have had the hotel on a higher level than the two office buildings. Instead, Uptown Gateway will have one, level podium above three levels of garage parking.

 

“This makes it far more pedestrian friendly,” [Terrex principal] Horton said. “Everything will be kept at one level.”

 

With the change, more of the garage will be visible than originally intended, but Horton said the team is working through the design to screen the garage. When the site was going to match the grade of Martin Luther King Drive, pedestrians would have always been walking up and down from one building to the next.

 

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Get a look at updated plans for $200 million Uptown Gateway

 

terrex-ug-digital-futures-dusk*750xx3840

 

The developers working on the Uptown Gateway project in Avondale have updated their plans for the first two buildings in what is expected to be a more than $200 million development.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2019/11/26/exclusive-get-a-look-at-updated-plans-for-200.html?iana=hpmvp_cinci_news_headline

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2 hours ago, tonyt3524 said:

That's a depressing image.

Yeah, you really hate to see a world class institution that saves children’s lives expand in our city... 

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2 minutes ago, Guy23 said:

Yeah, you really hate to see a world class institution that saves children’s lives expand in our city... 

 

I was about to say heaven forbid, larger hospital to allow for better treatment of children across the globe, and a bigger Ronald Mcdonald house for families who cant afford to stay at hotels while their children are being treated in the hospital. I will take this type of development any day of the week. 

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2 hours ago, tonyt3524 said:

That's a depressing image.

Would you rather one of the few industries growing in this city expand out in the suburbs?  I'll trade some houses for the continued growth of our great hospital/health industry.  

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Children's already tore down blocks of homes for this expansion ten years ago.  But instead of expanding onto that land as planned, they tore down more of the neighborhood and the original land is still sitting empty.  It's crazy.  

 

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Cincinnati+Children's+Hospital+Medical+Center/@39.1413499,-84.5001377,189m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x8841b39813aaaaab:0xf8de29b38ec4c772!8m2!3d39.1406343!4d-84.5014413

 

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I"m not really upset about the loss of those houses but it does upset me to lose housing. They could've partnered with an affordable housing developer like Pennrose to build a mixed income apartment building nearby that would've replaced the lost houses and then some. I believe Children's Hospital of Philadelphia has done that in the past and actually came out ahead.

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1 hour ago, jmecklenborg said:

Children's already tore down blocks of homes for this expansion ten years ago.  But instead of expanding onto that land as planned, they tore down more of the neighborhood and the original land is still sitting empty.  It's crazy.  

 

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Cincinnati+Children's+Hospital+Medical+Center/@39.1413499,-84.5001377,189m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x8841b39813aaaaab:0xf8de29b38ec4c772!8m2!3d39.1406343!4d-84.5014413

 

They'll build on that land sooner then later.  I was just at children's touring some of their labs a couple weeks ago and they're already planning for their next two buildings.   

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2 minutes ago, Cincy513 said:

They'll build on that land sooner then later.  I was just at children's touring some of their labs a couple weeks ago and they're already planning for their next two buildings.   

 

You are correct the land at Burnet and Catherine will be additional research and lab facilities for the hospital. 

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57 minutes ago, savadams13 said:

 

You are correct the land at Burnet and Catherine will be additional research and lab facilities for the hospital. 

Is that the site that is currently vacant?

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They looked into building a 10-15 story tower right over the main drop off circle to the hospital, but it was significantly cheaper to buy the homes and expand over and through Erkenbrecher.  

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The main circle with the flags is partially built over a parking garage that was likely not built to support a large structure or whatever it was designed for is no longer what they need. 

 

The layout of Children's hospital is an absolute and total mess.  I don't get how an organization with so much money was able to grow into such a wildly disorganized and unattractive campus.  The new tower going up introduces a new, bizarre motif.  The re-routing of Erkenbrecher is ugly.  The new tower doesn't acknowledge its suburban curve or any other aspect of its context.  It's just a big mean X.  

 

 

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You can be happy that a worthwhile institution is doing well and expanding, but still be critical of their running roughshod over a neighborhood with no consequences.  The snarky sarcastic comments above are the kind of bottom-feeding platitudes I'd expect out of Fox News, not a forum of supposedly urban-minded citizens.  That photo is a classic example of scale incompatibility and anti-contextualism.  And for all the trouble, there's still vacant lots and hideous overhead utilities.  Why is there no room for civic engagement here?   

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32 minutes ago, jjakucyk said:

You can be happy that a worthwhile institution is doing well and expanding, but still be critical of their running roughshod over a neighborhood with no consequences.  The snarky sarcastic comments above are the kind of bottom-feeding platitudes I'd expect out of Fox News, not a forum of supposedly urban-minded citizens.  That photo is a classic example of scale incompatibility and anti-contextualism.  And for all the trouble, there's still vacant lots and hideous overhead utilities.  Why is there no room for civic engagement here?   

I think the issue is that being totally objective the architecture does look out of place, but it’s hard to discuss this project objectively, when most of its detractors were basically against its right to be built at all.

 

Totally reasonable if you just objected to the appearance and design, but thinking back to its conception, many of the most vocal detractors seemed to have completely unfounded criticism, so when people hear others trash the hospital expansion, the immediate reaction is to assume the person complaining came from this group.

 

Also it does make a huge difference that Children’s Hospital is one of the best employers and most altruistic organizations in the region, so if anyone should be given a little leeway to make some sh*tty design choices with their development it would be them.

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13 hours ago, Guy23 said:

I think the issue is that being totally objective the architecture does look out of place, but it’s hard to discuss this project objectively, when most of its detractors were basically against its right to be built at all.

 

Totally reasonable if you just objected to the appearance and design, but thinking back to its conception, many of the most vocal detractors seemed to have completely unfounded criticism, so when people hear others trash the hospital expansion, the immediate reaction is to assume the person complaining came from this group.

 

Also it does make a huge difference that Children’s Hospital is one of the best employers and most altruistic organizations in the region, so if anyone should be given a little leeway to make some sh*tty design choices with their development it would be them.

 

They're also one of the wealthiest institutions in the region... and so it's reasonable to expect better than "sh*tty design choices" from them. I agree with the point made by @jjakucyk ... we should be able to point out how the design could be improved, and folks on this forum should be able to hear design criticism without leaping to an argument like "HoW CAN YoU BE OppOseD TO A CHiLDReN's HoSPiTaL??!?!?!"

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Every single hospital in Cincinnati is a mess of multiple expansions over 100 years, other than Mercy West that just decided to shut down and move out to a distant suburb.

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That's why it's complicated because if the choice is a big addition in a complex disjointed campus, or closing shop and moving to the suburbs; then I'd rather have big ugly complexes in Uptown.

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Mercy West shouldn't be the comparison, and that implies a false-dichotomy. Cincinnati Children's has plenty of space to expand in Avondale.

 

Cincinnati Children's benchmarks themselves against the other top children's hospitals in the country, like Boston Children's (#1) and CHOP (#2) and Texas Children's (tied for #3 with Cincinnati).

 

Boston Children's is very space constrained (probably the most so of the other top children's hospitals). In 2014, they built the 10-story James Mandell Building (streetview) which is built right up to the street.

 

In 2015, CHOP built a 12-story tower for advanced care, and it does a much better job of "meeting the street" (streetview)

 

Texas Children's recently built their 25-story Legacy Tower, which is also more integrated with the surrounding streets

 

Perhaps because Cincinnati Children's is much less space-constrained than any of the other top-5 children's hospitals, they don't feel the need to have an "urban" approach to their site plan. But I think that's a missed opportunity to create a sense of place around the hospital, especially along Burnet. 

Edited by jwulsin
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1 hour ago, nicker66 said:

Every single hospital in Cincinnati is a mess of multiple expansions over 100 years, other than Mercy West that just decided to shut down and move out to a distant suburb.


one minor quibble- the new Mercy West Hospital isn’t in a distant suburb, it’s less than a mile outside the city limits 

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1 hour ago, jwulsin said:

Mercy West shouldn't be the comparison, and that implies a false-dichotomy. Cincinnati Children's has plenty of space to expand in Avondale.

 

Cincinnati Children's benchmarks themselves against the other top children's hospitals in the country, like Boston Children's (#1) and CHOP (#2) and Texas Children's (tied for #3 with Cincinnati).

 

Boston Children's is very space constrained (probably the most so of the other top children's hospitals). In 2014, they built the 10-story James Mandell Building (streetview) which is built right up to the street.

 

In 2015, CHOP built a 12-story tower for advanced care, and it does a much better job of "meeting the street" (streetview)

 

Texas Children's recently built their 25-story Legacy Tower, which is also more integrated with the surrounding streets

 

Perhaps because Cincinnati Children's is much less space-constrained than any of the other top-5 children's hospitals, they don't feel the need to have an "urban" approach to their site plan. But I think that's a missed opportunity to create a sense of place around the hospital, especially along Burnet. 

 

All of those are better than what Cincinnati Children's is building right now.  What's weird is that the new research towers (Areas T and S, I believe) are each nice buildings, but they're hidden in the middle of the complex along Albert B. Sabin.  It's almost as if Children's thinks Albert B. Sabin is its face, even though it's tucked into the middle of the various hospitals.  

 

What's also hilarious is that when the Ronald McDonald House moved from the south side of Erkenbrecher closer to the zoo to its current location on the north side of Erkenbrecher, it's pretty obvious that Children's never thought it would expand north.  Otherwise they would have never given the Ronald McDonald House that prime piece of land.  

 

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Deaconess being demolished and Good Samaritan getting rid of it's cardiac unit and moving it to Bethesda in Montgomery are other examples of the healthcare industry chasing the bottom line to the suburbs. I'm not saying that if the city pushed harder against Children's they would start to relocate services to their Liberty Township campus, but it's not impossible either. It sucks that they destroyed the street grid and didn't make this expansion contextual AT ALL, but I don't know I guess it just doesn't bother me in this case.

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2 hours ago, ucgrady said:

Deaconess being demolished and Good Samaritan getting rid of it's cardiac unit and moving it to Bethesda in Montgomery are other examples of the healthcare industry chasing the bottom line to the suburbs. I'm not saying that if the city pushed harder against Children's they would start to relocate services to their Liberty Township campus, but it's not impossible either. It sucks that they destroyed the street grid and didn't make this expansion contextual AT ALL, but I don't know I guess it just doesn't bother me in this case.

 

If you have old relatives who need constant rides to appointments, you know that they formed their preferences for one office or hospital over another based on how "easy" it was to get "in and out of" even though now they're calling you to drive them there all the time.  When you're ill you don't want to deal with any wayfinding hassles and as we all know these city hospitals all have byzantine layouts.  

 

Also, the specialists travel around the city every week.  They're at X office on M and F and at Y office on T and TH.  On W they're in surgery.  The construction of duplicative offices is one of the most insane symptoms of auto-oriented sprawl.   

 

Probably the single craziest thing is that giant sign at the Cincinnati Eye Institute in Blue Ash that directs traffic to I-71.  So what are all of these people with impaired vision looking at once they turn out of the place?  

 

 

 

 

 

 

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On 2/17/2020 at 7:00 PM, jjakucyk said:

You can be happy that a worthwhile institution is doing well and expanding, but still be critical of their running roughshod over a neighborhood with no consequences.  The snarky sarcastic comments above are the kind of bottom-feeding platitudes I'd expect out of Fox News, not a forum of supposedly urban-minded citizens.  That photo is a classic example of scale incompatibility and anti-contextualism.  And for all the trouble, there's still vacant lots and hideous overhead utilities.  Why is there no room for civic engagement here?   

 

Yeah clearly my comment backfired. I have no problems with the expansion, it just looks depressing as hell to see what it's taking over. Hell, my wife worked at UC Health for years, it's great to see them succeeding and expanding.

 

I'll keep my opinions to myself from now on.

Edited by tonyt3524

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24 minutes ago, tonyt3524 said:

 

Yeah clearly my comment backfired. I have no problems with the expansion, it just looks depressing as hell to see what it's taking over. Hell, my wife worked at UC Health for years, it's great to see them succeeding and expanding.

 

I'll keep my opinions to myself from now on.

 

nothing wrong with having a differing opinion, it actually created an interesting discussion 

Edited by seaswan

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Reds make return visit for latest neighborhood makeover

 

The Cincinnati Reds are planning a return visit for their latest neighborhood makeover.

 

Avondale will be the recipient of the 2020 Community Makeover, sponsored by the Reds, Procter & Gamble Co., Cincinnati Children’s Hospital and the Cincinnati Zoo & Botanical Garden. Avondale also received a makeover in 2013.

 

Now in its 11th year, this year’s makeover will be the most ambitious to date with six project zones at the following Avondale sites...

 

...here:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2020/03/02/reds-make-return-visit-for-latest-neighborhood.html

 

avondale-makeover-map*1200xx1200-675-0-1


"You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers

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ArtWorks' first project of 2020 will light up this Cincinnati neighborhood

 

ArtWorks’ first project of 2020 will feature a series of light-based installations aimed at enhancing neighborhood safety and celebrating cultural heritage.

 

Artists Calcagno Cullen and Matthew Grote have been selected by an Avondale public art steering committee to create Switch On Avondale, a series of interactive public art installations along the new walking and bike trail behind the renovated Hirsch Recreation Center on Reading Road. The project is funded in part by the National Endowment for the Arts.

 

“This work of creating more public art in Avondale is so important,” April Gallelli, Avondale Development Corp. community organizer, said in a news release. “The residents want more art that is reflective of our community’s rich culture and values, and we’re thrilled that a national funder is investing in this work. We look forward to what these artists partnering with the Avondale community will bring to life.”

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2020/03/10/artworks-first-project-of-2020-will-light.html

 

artworks1*750xx705-944-128-230.jpg


"You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers

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